How would you halt the spread of Burmese Pythons in the US?

Be like Nutella · 15-08-2012 12:08am #1

How would you halt the spread of Burmese Pythons?

I was chatting with a mate about the Burmese Python problem in the US, neither of us being expert in anything.

Long story short: There's thousands (nobody knows how many) of potentially large (anywhere from 3-17 foot) Burmese Pythons in Florida (and possibly some surrounding states) right now who are eating their way through the local food chain like a eurosaver menu because they're big bad ass snakes and the prey have never had to deal with them before because Burmese pythons are relatively new to their ecosystem (say 10-20 years). The story is longer and more complex, go search it but either way that's the current situation - non indigenous predator munching everything from squirrels to panthers to deer... mad stuff. Anyway there's been very little success in killing or catching them to stop the ill affects of ...well their existence... ill affects which are poorly understood thus far but estimated to be generally..bad!

My question is simply: How would you go about eradicating (or as close to as mattered) them if you had an unlimited budget and a few years to achieve it given the following problems and given that you WOULD.

Large area.
Large Territories.
Hard to find (without spotting using Infra red and a chopper).
Trapping of them is poorly understood.
Poor access to territory.. swampland etc few roads
Poor political motivation.
Very limited current wild breeding data so far.
Hardy species capable of withstanding large temperature variation.
Can take down prey up to small deer size.
Can swim.
Can climb.
Lives for over 20 years.
Basically never stops growing.
No obvious barriers to their spread to many states in the future.
Conflicting reports/data/analysis.
Attracted towards human population.. rats, vermin etc
Can grow 6 feet in first year.
Adult by age 4.
Naturally opportunistic hunters - will generally eat if presented with easy meal hungry or not.
Conflicting number data say between 5000 and 180,000 in Florida now.. let's agree on 15,000 adults for this purpose.

How would you apply logic and planning to taking them out of the system for good given no budget constraints?

clever and funny answers welcome...
Would love to hear from any Herp heads out there : )

I think this problem is fascinating and if there's a realistic potential solution I'd say that would be fascinating too.

Sponge Bob · 15-08-2012 12:37am

What about all the other lizards. There are stacks of non native species and the Burmese don't discriminate. So why pick on the Burmese??

http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/reptiles/

the_syco · 15-08-2012 12:45am

Whacking Day?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlgYsAJ6fHU

Or maybe whacking day with guns?

dodderangler · 15-08-2012 12:45am

Sponge Bob wrote: »

What about all the other lizards. There are stacks of non native species and the Burmese don't discriminate. So why pick on the Burmese??

http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/reptiles/

Because the burms have a much bigger appetite than lizards
Havin been around burms and their behaviour in captivity are quiet snakes( depends in the handling) and grow a ridiculous size in a few years ( been around a 16footer) and they Havint got many predator in Florida other than alligators and raccoons taking eggs and odd bird of prey like the redtail hawk but only at a young age therefore they majority of the young survive and they thrive in the presence of their prey considering they Havint got one specific favourite prey they will eat anything that moves from frogs and rabbits to alligators
There is people out there catchin them and trying to control them ie python hunters but b
Problem being is it is a dangerous job and not many will take up the job offer and who can blame them a 180kg snake that can attack and squeeze life from you is a formidable opponent
It's a tricky question on how to control them tho
Atb

Be like Nutella · 15-08-2012 12:55am

heard a story not sure if true bout an Irish breeder who had one years back and went into his 'Burmese Room' to feed it a big rabbit or somethin and couldn't see it around and then boom thing landed on it from above the door frame and bit his head with a hundred teeth embedded in his baldy head and his wife or somethin had to attack it with a spoon or somethin ridiculous like that and he just had a gazillion punctures in his head...actually I'm pretty sure it's true to some extent but probably not all Burms are directly from the stunt cast of snakes on a plane.

Be like Nutella · 15-08-2012 1:01am

Sponge Bob wrote: »

What about all the other lizards. There are stacks of non native species and the Burmese don't discriminate. So why pick on the Burmese??

http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/reptiles/

tbh I wish they'd shipem back to Burma to feed on some of the leaders back there... see how they like gettin squeezed

retroactive · 15-08-2012 1:17am

Be like Nutella wrote: »

heard a story not sure if true bout an Irish breeder who had one years back and went into his 'Burmese Room' to feed it a big rabbit or somethin and couldn't see it around and then boom thing landed on it from above the door frame and bit his head with a hundred teeth embedded in his baldy head and his wife or somethin had to attack it with a spoon or somethin ridiculous like that and he just had a gazillion punctures in his head...actually I'm pretty sure it's true to some extent but probably not all Burms are directly from the stunt cast of snakes on a plane.

Well, that's me not sleeping for awhile. Cheers

Be like Nutella · 15-08-2012 1:35am

well if you like that you'll love this... I was left in a room once when I was about 17 with one very large very angry Rock Python and the door had no handle on the inside and then a guy turned off the lights from the outside for at least 10 seconds which felt like approx 4 years and I nearly shat meself unconscious... wasn't even a practical joke he just hit the wrong switches... wasn't impressed at all with that .... some S. African security guard was once dragged up a small tree by one of those a few years back and it half swallowed the mans arm and squeezed him for a couple hours before he could use his other arm to phone his mate to free him... now that's some scary ****

Be like Nutella · 15-08-2012 1:43am

not a security guard, a farmer

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/nyaumbe.html

dodderangler · 15-08-2012 1:44am

Hers one for ya which I think everyone knows
A girl in America had gotten a burm from when it was very young and braught it up as a very tame snake and so tame in fact that she used to sleep with it
It was 10 foot long and used to sleep coiled up beside her bed
The girl was only in her early teens
Well one night she noticed the snake slept length ways near her and also wasn't eatin she took it to the vet and vet said she couldn't find anything wrong
the snake started to lose weight and continued to sleep length ways
After a week the girl got very worried bout her snake and braught it back to the vet an vet still said she couldn't find what's wrong
She asked the girl when it started to stop eatin she said bout 3 weeks ago and then pointed out the snake sleeps with her coiled up beside her
The vet said what way is it sleepin now and the girl said length ways
She then had to tell the girl and her parents that all along the snake had been sizing the girl up for a big meal
Now that is scary ****!!!!!!!

Be like Nutella · 15-08-2012 2:06am

when I heard that first my hairs stood up ...

wonder how smart snakes can get... as far as hunting strategy etc. like some of them don't have to eat for months after a hearty meal so they must have the patience of a saint like even more than a croc who can sit under water for an hour chillin while a wildebeast chews the cud like a retard 4 feet above the surface and then WHACK head in jaw.. death roll. napkin please ha in more than one way they play the long game

dodderangler · 15-08-2012 2:16am

There is a story of a man found half swallowed in the jaws of a reticulated monster python
The man was found by a local ranger wandering around and heard the weird sound of what sounded like something chokin and a low hissing sound
It was the snake trying to swallow the man but could not get passed the shoulders as it tried to eat him the wrong way
The ranger shot the snake measuring over 6 metres and weighed over 250lbs
Forensics arrived to find that this snake had followed the man for quite a distance judging by the tracks made from its body as the tracks from the snake were also made over the mans shoe prints in the ground provin it had been hunting him
the man then seemed to have stopped to take a break as he was tired from chopping trees apparently and the snake attacked him smothered him And began the terrifying process of swallowing him whole
I not gonna be able to sleep now
Lovely I scared myself here

Adam Khor · 15-08-2012 2:37am

dodderangler wrote: »

There is a story of a man found half swallowed in the jaws of a reticulated monster python
The man was found by a local ranger wandering around and heard the weird sound of what sounded like something chokin and a low hissing sound
It was the snake trying to swallow the man but could not get passed the shoulders as it tried to eat him the wrong way
The ranger shot the snake measuring over 6 metres and weighed over 250lbs
Forensics arrived to find that this snake had followed the man for quite a distance judging by the tracks made from its body as the tracks from the snake were also made over the mans shoe prints in the ground provin it had been hunting him
the man then seemed to have stopped to take a break as he was tired from chopping trees apparently and the snake attacked him smothered him And began the terrifying process of swallowing him whole
I not gonna be able to sleep now
Lovely I scared myself here

I believe this photograph is from the case you mention:

I was a snake handler in a zoo once and I worked mostly with pythons and other snakes (and crocs but thats another story). Burmeses are rather docile but they should ALWAYS be considered dangerous; and they did show a special interest on small children. Retics and rock pythons are very aggressive, as are blood pythons (although the latter are not large enough to eat you). But even a python too small to eat you can still kill you if it wraps itself around your neck and decides to squeeze.

As for a solution to the python problem in Florida... what about introducing some King Cobras? :pac: Of course, the locals should be willing to trade giant constrictors for giant hot herps but, still...

No, really, this is one of those cases that should have been prevented from the beginning; now that they're on the loose they probably will never be completely eradicated.
Even global warming will probably help them spread beyond that region, creating new colonies in unexpected places.

Be like Nutella · 15-08-2012 2:43am

that is actually fcukin scary sh1t.. the idea of a snake following you to hunt you in a forest... esp a retic is unnerving to say the least.

Austin Stevens once danced around a bleeding mahoosive big ass hooded King Cobra that was probably 16 feet long and rose up to his shoulder height with a hood about one foot wide hissing so incredibly intensely that it was like the sound of a power hose passing over a car door and that is the single awesomely scariest image I've ever seen of a snake ever... was like something from a greek mythology etching except it was real and Austin was busy trying to pat it on the head as a personal challenge even though the physical bite alone from this beast would have skewered him like two gurkha knives.
Go look it up 'Austin Stevens Giant King Cobra'

Austin Kicks ass!!

Adam Khor · 15-08-2012 2:45am

Be like Nutella wrote: »

that is actually fcukin scary sh1t.. the idea of a snake following you to hunt you in a forest... esp a retic is unnerving to say the least.

Austin Stevens once danced around a bleeding mahoosive big ass hooded King Cobra that was probably 16 feet long and rose up to his shoulder height with a hood about one foot wide hissing so incredibly intensely that it was like the sound of a power hose passing over a car door and that is the single awesomely scariest image I've ever seen of a snake ever... was like something from a greek mythology etching except it was real and Austin was busy trying to pat it on the head as a personal challenge even though the physical bite alone from this beast would have skewered him like two gurkha knives.
Go look it up 'Austin Stevens Giant King Cobra'

Austin Kicks ass!!

I remember that. And I also remember the zoo's King Cobras and they don´t only hiss, they growl, its a really amazing sound :> Made scarier by the fact you mention- the big ones can look you practically in the eye.

Be like Nutella · 15-08-2012 2:54am

Adam Khor wrote: »

I believe this photograph is from the case you mention:

I was a snake handler in a zoo once and I worked mostly with pythons and other snakes (and crocs but thats another story). Burmeses are rather docile but they should ALWAYS be considered dangerous; and they did show a special interest on small children. Retics and rock pythons are very aggressive, as are blood pythons (although the latter are not large enough to eat you). But even a python too small to eat you can still kill you if it wraps itself around your neck and decides to squeeze.

As for a solution to the python problem in Florida... what about introducing some King Cobras? :pac: Of course, the locals should be willing to trade giant constrictors for giant hot herps but, still...

No, really, this is one of those cases that should have been prevented from the beginning; now that they're on the loose they probably will never be completely eradicated.
Even global warming will probably help them spread beyond that region, creating new colonies in unexpected places.

could be one of those problems requiring sideways thinking ya know... like something glaringly obvious or simplistic but probably not.

I'd love to think given a limitless supply of mini-gun armed helicopters mounted with infra stuff like cops have except optimized for whatever spectrum Burms would inhabit at night and just sweep pattern the whole everglades in shifts 24 hours a day finding and taking em out bzzzz dead bzzz dead... dangerous and economically and every other way intensive as it clearly would be you could probably do it for under 100 mill in the space of a year but all that's based on watching Predator too many times.

Adam Khor · 15-08-2012 2:55am

Be like Nutella wrote: »

could be one of those problems requiring sideways thinking ya know... like something glaringly obvious or simplistic but probably not.

I'd love to think given a limitless supply of mini-gun armed helicopters mounted with infra stuff like cops have except optimized for whatever spectrum Burms would inhabit at night and just sweep pattern the whole everglades in shifts 24 hours a day finding and taking em out bzzzz dead bzzz dead... dangerous and economically and every other way intensive as it clearly would be you could probably do it for under 100 mill in the space of a year but all that's based on watching Predator too many times.

It kinda bugs me that the poor snakes are paying with their lives now for man's ignorance and selfishness. :S

Be like Nutella · 15-08-2012 3:08am

Adam Khor wrote: »

It kinda bugs me that the poor snakes are paying with their lives now for man's ignorance and selfishness. :S

well when I'm not chewing on a cigar and manning a mini-gun murdering Large Burms in my imagination I am also Human and I agree totally... ignorant people did ignorant things, that or a storm caused all this nobody knows but prob a mix of both over time and yes a couple thousand Burms have been killed for that mistake and in Australia species will literally go extinct for their Toad mistake... we are the first species of animal to truly be capable of changing our planet whether by design or 'doh'-ness. Sometimes our best minds together can't crack a nut but introducing the wrong 'nut' can wipe out an entire rain forest.. we are epicly retarded sometimes.

Be like Nutella · 15-08-2012 3:17am

That being said, if a few thousand interested people had the 'Burm Solution' debate in as many forums as possible I'm sure somebody would spit out a workable idea to at least reverse the exponential spread of Super-Burms across sub Mississippi America and with campaigns promising billions in increases towards park related funds it could be the right time to throw as many of these ideas at this problem til one sticks and potentially avert a food web disruption which may push some species over thresholds of genetic dilution coz as somebody said these Burms will have a go at anything that moves which may mean they eat themselves out of house n home and settle into a pulsing predator/prey dynamic restricting their rise to the everglades region but I'm spitballing.

Adam Khor · 15-08-2012 3:19am

Be like Nutella wrote: »

That being said, if a few thousand interested people had the 'Burm Solution' debate in as many forums as possible I'm sure somebody would spit out a workable idea to at least reverse the exponential spread of Super-Burms across sub Mississippi America and with campaigns promising billions in increases towards park related funds it could be the right time to throw as many of these ideas at this problem til one sticks and potentially avert a food web disruption which may push some species over thresholds of genetic dilution coz as somebody said these Burms will have a go at anything that moves which may mean they eat themselves out of house n home and settle into a pulsing predator/prey dynamic restricting their rise to the everglades region but I'm spitballing.

Maybe finding some sort of substance that turns pythons sterile? And then somehow target pythons and pythons only, so that native species of snake/lizard aren´t affected. I don´t know how realistic this is, although it sadly sounds a lot less practical than killing them.
(I still don´t think they'll manage to eradicate them, tho).

Be like Nutella · 15-08-2012 3:35am

Adam Khor wrote: »

Maybe finding some sort of substance that turns pythons sterile? And then somehow target pythons and pythons only, so that native species of snake/lizard aren´t affected. I don´t know how realistic this is, although it sadly sounds a lot less practical than killing them.
(I still don´t think they'll manage to eradicate them, tho).

yeah well it sounds good alright - somethin like the lycine in Jurassic Park to make them all female or somethin like that can't remember but I dunno do I want America to test drive a species 'final solution' that may get their CDC and Darpa Bio guys head cogs turning til some mad fecker comes up with an anti-Chinese agent haha but seriously

Adam Khor · 15-08-2012 3:41am

Be like Nutella wrote: »

yeah well it sounds good alright - somethin like the lycine in Jurassic Park to make them all female or somethin like that can't remember but I dunno do I want America to test drive a species 'final solution' that may get their CDC and Darpa Bio guys head cogs turning til some mad fecker comes up with an anti-Chinese agent haha but seriously

Oh, I bet they already have an anti-Chinese agent by now XD Just wait. Once the food crisis gets critical, strange things are going to happen to many countries' populations, mark my words :pac:

Be like Nutella · 15-08-2012 3:47am

haha I suppose they do already in a way KFC, BK's, McDonalds, Philip Morris, Starbucks... that'll reduce av child from 1 to none quick as you can say extra large big mac meal with a skip of coke preeze

Birdnuts · 15-08-2012 11:44am

I'm thinking of a snakes skin apparel factory with the meat being sent to East Asia. This way everyone wins ie. a non-native invasive species is dealt with and pressure is takin off native snake species in East Asia.

Be like Nutella · 17-08-2012 1:32am

I wonder would that type of thing work - it sounds logical... let market pressure and profit work to eradicate the Burms... maybe putting a bounty on each snake caught like somebody said... wonder how much would work - $50 per snake?
100,000 snakes = $5 Million... gov would prob throw in for that if the problem was solved... problems such as untrained poor hand hunting large pythons in swamps risking death for many reasons would be an issue but I still think the bounty per snake could have a major impact if applied appropriately.... but then again if the authorities find it very hard to catch enough of them then maybe you couldn't expect a few hundred public hunters to do any better with less sophisticated equipment but it's an unknown I suppose... I'd certainly try it... could work. Magpies etc got the same treatment at one stage. I also saw a fancy pair of heels on the net somewhere made from Burm skin but the problem with supporting that type of idea is that it could inadvertently rejuvenate a taste for reptile skin products in the west or wherever which could fcuk up a lot of species big time so not sure it's worth the risk pushing the fashion option. I personally think the issue requires a very clever and intensive and probably expensive proper study/analysis/report that could be trusted first... then depending on the actual understood magnitude of the problem..

I think it would require a BIG FIX clever idea... probably involving a lot of man power and equipment/vehicles/traps/infra red tech/naturalists/herp experts/hunters/volunteers/contractors and probably a period of a few years to complete the program which would IMO cost anywhere from tens of millions to hundreds of millions of dollars and that's a tough sell in Florida politics so unfortunately for some species this problem will probably not get serious enough political attention until some kind of tipping point ...from a child getting hurt by a Burm (touch wood that doesn't happen) to some congressman/Senator/Governor speaking up loud enough in Washington to get some attention and get a bill passed to spend the money and get it done... in the meantime Burms are gona get bigger, younger in my opinion with all that dumb protein sittin around waiting to get squeeeeezed to death all over the Everglades : ) and I know it's been thrown around in some interest pieces last couple years mostly for shock factor but.. there are some few hundred Rock Pythons apparently breeding in the Everglades too which can and have (in captivity anyway) interbred with Burmese Pythons before and COULD create some serious wild born hybrids which COULD be a stronger animal..but that just sounds cool in a way... a super Rock-Burm hybrid! Scary concept

Adam Khor · 17-08-2012 1:34am

Be like Nutella wrote: »

I wonder would that type of thing work - it sounds logical... let market pressure and profit work to eradicate the Burms... maybe putting a bounty on each snake caught like somebody said... wonder how much would work - $50 per snake?
100,000 snakes = $5 Million... gov would prob throw in for that if the problem was solved... problems such as untrained poor hand hunting large pythons in swamps risking death for many reasons would be an issue but I still think the bounty per snake could have a major impact if applied appropriately.... but then again if the authorities find it very hard to catch enough of them then maybe you couldn't expect a few hundred public hunters to do any better with less sophisticated equipment but it's an unknown I suppose... I'd certainly try it... could work. Magpies etc got the same treatment at one stage. I also saw a fancy pair of heels on the net somewhere made from Burm skin but the problem with supporting that type of idea is that it could inadvertently rejuvenate a taste for reptile skin products in the west or wherever which could fcuk up a lot of species big time so not sure it's worth the risk pushing the fashion option. I personally think the issue requires a very clever and intensive and probably expensive proper study/analysis/report that could be trusted first... then depending on the actual understood magnitude of the problem..

I think it would require a BIG FIX clever idea... probably involving a lot of man power and equipment/vehicles/traps/infra red tech/naturalists/herp experts/hunters/volunteers/contractors and probably a period of a few years to complete the program which would IMO cost anywhere from tens of millions to hundreds of millions of dollars and that's a tough sell in Florida politics so unfortunately for some species this problem will probably not get serious enough political attention until some kind of tipping point ...from a child getting hurt by a Burm (touch wood that doesn't happen) to some congressman/Senator/Governor speaking up loud enough in Washington to get some attention and get a bill passed to spend the money and get it done... in the meantime Burms are gona get bigger, younger in my opinion with all that dumb protein sittin around waiting to get squeeeeezed to death all over the Everglades : ) and I know it's been thrown around in some interest pieces last couple years mostly for shock factor but.. there are some few hundred Rock Pythons apparently breeding in the Everglades too which can and have (in captivity anyway) interbred with Burmese Pythons before and COULD create some serious wild born hybrids which COULD be a stronger animal..but that just sounds cool in a way... a super Rock-Burm hybrid! Scary concept

Now imagine if they interbred with Retics

Be like Nutella · 17-08-2012 1:37am

jaysus...
and then invaded Disneyworld as a cooperating swarm lead by a super Retic-Burm with glowing red eyes who could speak... there's a script there : )

Hellrazer · 19-08-2012 10:19pm

dodderangler wrote: »

Hers one for ya which I think everyone knows
A girl in America had gotten a burm from when it was very young and braught it up as a very tame snake and so tame in fact that she used to sleep with it
It was 10 foot long and used to sleep coiled up beside her bed
The girl was only in her early teens
Well one night she noticed the snake slept length ways near her and also wasn't eatin she took it to the vet and vet said she couldn't find anything wrong
the snake started to lose weight and continued to sleep length ways
After a week the girl got very worried bout her snake and braught it back to the vet an vet still said she couldn't find what's wrong
She asked the girl when it started to stop eatin she said bout 3 weeks ago and then pointed out the snake sleeps with her coiled up beside her
The vet said what way is it sleepin now and the girl said length ways
She then had to tell the girl and her parents that all along the snake had been sizing the girl up for a big meal
Now that is scary ****!!!!!!!

Thinks you`ll find thats an urban myth.
Snakes dont measure their prey before eating it

Capt'n Midnight · 19-08-2012 10:37pm

Be like Nutella wrote: »

I wonder would that type of thing work - it sounds logical... let market pressure and profit work to eradicate the Burms... maybe putting a bounty on each snake caught like somebody said... wonder how much would work - $50 per snake?
100,000 snakes = $5 Million...

cool

how many breeding pairs would you need to retire on ?

Adam Khor · 19-08-2012 10:44pm

Hellrazer wrote: »

Thinks you`ll find thats an urban myth.
Snakes dont measure their prey before eating it

That is right. In fact they probably WOULD like to know how to measure their prey. Pythons end up killing and trying to swallow impossibly large prey.
It isn´t uncommon for a python to end up slithering away still hungry after succesfully killing a larger animal.

Capt'n Midnight · 19-08-2012 10:54pm

what you need is a trap that only an animal of their dimensions can get stuck in - tube with a trap door and a transparent end with a hole in it so smaller animals can get out , or link the trap door to two release mechanisms so it only traps large animals.

though if millions are being spent solar panel + android + facial / pattern recognition software to trigger the trap and send an SMS or email when something happens.

This could work here for red/grey squirrels and others and do a survey of native species too

Capt'n Midnight · 20-08-2012 12:05pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19252080

The biggest Burmese python ever caught in Florida's wild has been captured in the Everglades, US scientists say.

The snake measuring 17ft 7in (5.18m) and weighing 164lb (74kg) was found in Everglades National Park, the University of Florida announced.

The python - now dead - was pregnant with 87 eggs, also believed to be a record.

After scientific investigation, the snake will be exhibited at the museum on the University of Florida campus for five years before being returned to the Everglades National Park.

what returned

In 2009, another Burmese python named Delilah, measuring 18ft and weighing more than 400lb, was seized by Florida wildlife officials after it was found that its cage at a home near Lake Apopka was unsuitable.

181Kg in Euros :eek:

Be like Nutella · 20-08-2012 3:01pm

only conjecture but the record 87 egg count might be indicative of higher egg counts becoming norm in Florida which would explain the seemingly fast spread last few years.. we could be lookin at a highly successful breeder with no natural enemies getting naturally bigger at a younger age eating bigger prey and spreading as that prey source diminishes... basically eating its way across America like an all-you-can-eat Chinese buffet on Mary's st !

haulagebasher · 20-08-2012 3:22pm

How about engineering some sort of pathogen like a virus or whatever that specifically targets that blood line of the species. Make it with a lethal time that is linger than the animals breeding cycle to ensure transmission is ensured. You could also spread the virus over wide areas using aircraft.A bit like myxamatosis was used to kill off rabbits in Austrailia in the 50's but new biotech these days would eneable us to engineer a far more deadly pathogen.

Mickeroo · 20-08-2012 3:25pm

I think a bounty wouldn't be a bad way to go. If you financially encourage people to hunt and kill them it probably wouldn't be long bringing the numbers down.

Worked for Cromwell and the Irish wolf population

Be like Nutella · 20-08-2012 3:48pm

haulagebasher wrote: »

How about engineering some sort of pathogen like a virus or whatever that specifically targets that blood line of the species. Make it with a lethal time that is linger than the animals breeding cycle to ensure transmission is ensured. You could also spread the virus over wide areas using aircraft.A bit like myxamatosis was used to kill off rabbits in Austrailia in the 50's but new biotech these days would eneable us to engineer a far more deadly pathogen.

Yeah makes sense logically but I don't know... something like that would have to be right first time and well we're not always great at first time : )

See something like that could prove relatively cheap compared to other routes and IF they could prove that the pathogen only affected reptiles, snakes and specifically pythons then cool, grand do it...but if the pathogen had any chance of changing once out there in the ecosystem things could get hairy.

Here's the classic Cane Toad example/story - quite interesting, scary but interesting.
____________
Native to Central and South America, Cane toads were introduced to Australia from Hawaii in June 1935 by the Bureau of Sugar Experiment Stations in an attempt to control the native cane beetle (Dermolepida albohirtum). These beetles are native to Australia and they are detrimental to sugar cane crops, which are a major source of income for Australia. Adult cane beetles eat the crop's leaves, but the main problem is the larvae, who feed on the roots. Adult cane beetles have a heavy exoskeleton and their eggs and larva are often buried underground, making them difficult to exterminate. Furthermore, conventional methods of pest control, such as pesticide use, would eradicate harmless species of insects as well, making it an inadequate method.[5]
The cane toads bred immediately in captivity, and by August 1935 more than 102 young toads were released in areas around Cairns, Gordonvale and Innisfail in northern Queensland. More toads were released around Ingham, Ayr, Mackay and Bundaberg. Releases were temporarily limited because of environmental concerns but resumed in other areas after September 1936. Since their release, toads have rapidly multiplied in population and now number over 200 million and have been known to spread diseases affecting local biodiversity.[6] Unfortunately, the introduction of the toads has not only caused large environmental detriment, but there is also no evidence that they have had an impact on the cane beetles they were introduced to predate. The toads have steadily expanded their range through Queensland, reaching the border with New South Wales in 1978 and the Northern Territory in 1984. The toads on the western frontier of their advance have evolved larger legs;[7] this is thought to be related to their ability to travel farther.

So we have a history of introducing one thing to get rid of another thing and then creating a bigger problem as a result.. so although the biotech answer might seem the way to go - it would need so much testing which could never really prove its safety that most likely some group or other would prevent its use and slow its development past a threshold point of no return for Burm spread which is probably within the next 5 years if they're talking 100,000 already!!... I saw a doc on it that said a team of about 5 guys a few quad bikes, a few boats and a helicopter only caught bout 30 snakes in the whole year even though they knew they were out there... they couldn't trap them effectively, track them effectively or get to them effectively yet their supposed prey numbers keep dropping as per sightings data - some species are even feared disappeared entirely from the local habitats which is just mad. They know that a large Burm will take anything up to and including 4 foot American crocs or Alligators, adult white tail deer, large fowl, larghe water birds and even fears of them hunting the Florida Panther which I assume is rare as hens teeth so that's not good.

Be like Nutella · 20-08-2012 4:03pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

I think a bounty wouldn't be a bad way to go. If you financially encourage people to hunt and kill them it probably wouldn't be long bringing the numbers down.

Worked for Cromwell and the Irish wolf population

We had Wolves back in time of Cromwell? and it his fault they're gone?
what an asshole... imagine wild wolves here... how brilliant would that be.
I'd love the little fear in the back of my mind as I'm jogging around Tick Knock that I could be being hunted without knowing... certainly improve the fitness anyway.

Capt'n Midnight · 20-08-2012 4:27pm

http://www.laois-nationalist.ie/tabId/153/itemId/13231/Garda-bring-home-the-bacon.aspx

Mickeroo · 20-08-2012 4:29pm

Be like Nutella wrote: »

We had Wolves back in time of Cromwell? and it his fault they're gone?
what an asshole... imagine wild wolves here... how brilliant would that be.
I'd love the little fear in the back of my mind as I'm jogging around Tick Knock that I could be being hunted without knowing... certainly improve the fitness anyway.

would certainly keep the impetus up for maintaining the old cardio. Supposedly Cromwell did put a bounty on wolves here though, they didn't go extinct until the mid to late 1700s as far as I know. I think the cutting down of our trees might have been just as big a factor as hunting though.

dodderangler · 20-08-2012 4:32pm

Unfortunately you could be as fit as a fiddle and never be able to out run them
But yeah cromwell started the bounty on their head
1786 was last known wolf to be killed and with the way of their territories and Ireland's ever grown population and building they would've definately been wiped out one way or the other
Imagine if they were in Ireland tho Among the great Irish elk

Back on topic how bout a species of gorilla that thrives on snake meat and let them loose and then when they are overthrown with gorilla make the gorillas work on construction or accountancy
May aswell the world is fcuked as it is can't make it worse
Lol

Cork boy 55 · 21-08-2012 12:52am

dodderangler wrote: »

Unfortunately you could be as fit as a fiddle and never be able to out run them
But yeah cromwell started the bounty on their head
1786 was last known wolf to be killed and with the way of their territories and Ireland's ever grown population and building they would've definately been wiped out one way or the other
Imagine if they were in Ireland tho Among the great Irish elk

Back on topic how bout a species of gorilla that thrives on snake meat and let them loose and then when they are overthrown with gorilla make the gorillas work on construction or accountancy
May aswell the world is fcuked as it is can't make it worse
Lol

thorough explanation of invasive species control

Cork boy 55 · 21-08-2012 1:03am

very hard to hunt them they stay undergrowth and only move at all at night.
it would have to be some sort of trap
they lay a clutch of eggs in springtime
What about something from asia that eats their eggs or their new borns? LOL what could go wrong

just reading wiki their wild populations are a threatened species in Asia assuming that correct
hunted for the leather trade and folk medicines

Adam Khor · 21-08-2012 1:04am

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

What about something that eats their eggs?

Introducing yet another exotic species to control an already present one hasn´t yielded good results in the past. Consider Cane toads in Australia, or mongoose in the Caribbean.

Be like Nutella · 21-08-2012 1:07am

now you're talki but would have to be spread all over the Everglades i.e. be rampant everywhere AND would only eat Burm eggs and not everything else eggs... think rats from ships killed off a few things in New Zealand by eatin their eggs too.

Be like Nutella · 21-08-2012 1:10am

The Cane toad thing is mad... 200,000,000 of them now.... eating loads of stuff and being eaten and therefore killing loads of stuff.. heard that even if a dog drinks out of a dish that a Cane toad has previously sat in in your garden that the dog dies after drinking just once!

Adam Khor · 21-08-2012 1:11am

Be like Nutella wrote: »

The Cane toad thing is mad... 200,000,000 of them now.... eating loads of stuff and being eaten and therefore killing loads of stuff.. heard that even if a dog drinks out of a dish that a Cane toad has previously sat in in your garden that the dog dies after drinking just once!

Seems that freshwater crocs are dying on great numbers from eating the toads. Salties don´t seem to mind...

Cork boy 55 · 21-08-2012 2:06am

scratch the egg plan
http://whozoo.org/students/stamoo/pythonhtml.html

[SIZE=-1]Burmese pythons breed early in the spring months. The females lay 12-100 eggs in March or April. After they lay the eggs, they gather them all together and coil around them to incubate them. They will lay coiled around the eggs until they hatch. "The female python is the only snake that can raise its own body temperature". While they are keeping the eggs warm, the muscles will tremble and these movements help the female to increase the temperature around the eggs. They will never leave the eggs to eat. Once the Care hatched, they must learn to exist alone and fend for themselves.[/SIZE]

It would have to be something that hunts the [SIZE=-1]baby pythons?

What if anything besides man is controlling there numbers in Asia?
What about bringing in more Asians to florida? lol
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1][/SIZE]

Adam Khor · 21-08-2012 2:08am

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

scratch the egg plan
http://whozoo.org/students/stamoo/pythonhtml.html

It would have to be something that hunts the [SIZE=-1]baby pythons?

What if anything besides man is controlling there numbers in Asia?
[/SIZE]

King cobras, mongoose, birds of prey...

But like I said, introducing another exotic to control an already present one cannot be a good idea. :S Anything that will eat baby pythons will also eat baby gators, native snakes, birds and mammals.

dodderangler · 21-08-2012 2:15am

I've eatin snake and it's not bad
Give me 5 million and il eat my way through Florida with pythons

Cork boy 55 · 21-08-2012 2:36am

I have feeling man will prevail in this battle.

What about
judas snakes
"Judas snakes" are telemetered pythons that lead researchers to other pythons, which are then captured and euthanized. In the 2006 breeding season, three snakes (one female and two males) were found in association with 15 "new" pythons, and in 2007, two male pythons led to 10 additional snakes. Of the 25 snakes discovered by this method in two years, 19 were captured and removed, and the other six escaped before capture was possible. Following a telemetered female also led to the discovery of the first nest, which confirmed the existence of a breeding population in ENP.

pheromones traps or dogs packs
The PSST is investigating other innovative strategies to locate and remove pythons, such as isolating the chemical cues (pheromones) that pythons use to attract each other during the breeding season. Once identified, pheromones can potentially be used to lure pythons into traps. Trained dogs also are being evaluated for their effectiveness at sniffing out snakes.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/uw286

Capt'n Midnight · 21-08-2012 12:11pm

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

just reading wiki their wild populations are a threatened species in Asia assuming that correct
hunted for the leather trade and folk medicines

Hire some Asians ?

How would you halt the spread of Burmese Pythons in the US?

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