Wolves kill zookeeper in Sweden

Adam Khor · 18-07-2012 1:42am #1

And there's still those who claim they don´t attack humans...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/9338319/Wolves-kill-Swedish-zoo-worker.html

steddyeddy · 18-07-2012 7:38pm

Adam Khor wrote: »

And there's still those who claim they don´t attack humans...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/9338319/Wolves-kill-Swedish-zoo-worker.html

I do think they kill humans Adam I just thought they would run away from confrontation if given the chance rather than attack first?

I do think that the fact that bears attack humans (Grizzlys in particular) is down played to a large extent. I wasnt aware of the same situation regarding wolves?

OpenYourEyes · 18-07-2012 8:01pm

Adam Khor wrote: »

And there's still those who claim they don´t attack humans...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/9338319/Wolves-kill-Swedish-zoo-worker.html

I've never looked into the issue of wolves and attacking humans, but what I will say is that you can't infer the behaviour of animals in the wild from incidents involving animals in an enclosure.
All that tells you is that they have the ability to attack humans in the wild - which is already obvious. Doesn't mean they would attack humans in the wild.

Mickeroo · 18-07-2012 8:05pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I do think that the fact that bears attack humans (Grizzlys in particular) is down played to a large extent. I wasnt aware of the same situation regarding wolves?

I've often been told there's never been a recorded attack on a human by a healthy wolf in the wild. Not saying its true, but its a pretty common belief afaik

Regardless, I'd imagine a captive wolf is much more likely to attack a person than one in the wild?

steddyeddy · 18-07-2012 8:09pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

I've often been told there's never been a recorded attack on a human by a healthy wolf in the wild. Not saying its true, but its a pretty common belief afaik

Regardless, I'd imagine a captive wolf is much more likely to attack a person than one in the wild?

I havent got a clue Im afraid. I have heard hunters in the states saying that wolves should be hunted as they can attack humans. I havent heard of wolves attacking humans in the wild either though!

Ps. I would agree that a captive animal is much more likely to attack.

Allyall · 18-07-2012 8:10pm

Did this not happen a while ago? I could swear i read a very similar article give or take a month ago.

Wolves in the Wild aren't known for attacking humans, as they usually have very little or no contact with them in the Wild.

Wiki Wolves

Wild wolves are generally timid around humans. Wolves usually try to avoid contact with people, to the point of even abandoning their kills when an approaching human is detected, but there are several reported circumstances in which wolves have been recorded to act aggressively toward humans. Compared to other carnivorous mammals known to attack humans in general, the frequency with which wolves have been recorded to kill or prey on people is much lower, indicating that though potentially dangerous, wolves are among the least threatening for their size and predatory potential.[1]

Allyall · 18-07-2012 8:12pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I havent got a clue Im afraid. I have heard hunters in the states saying that wolves should be hunted as they can attack humans. I havent heard of wolves attacking humans in the wild either though!

Ps. I would agree that a captive animal is much more likely to attack.

I'd say they'd give any excuse to kill them... (They're probably not allowed, as they wouldn't be hunting them for meat, and i'd imagine they are endangered.)

Edit:
I just read on that Wiki Page, she (Or someone else) was killed on June 17th

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans#2000s

Also, Just noticed that article is dated the 18/06/2012.. I misread as today is the 18/07/2012..

Holy Cr@p! :eek:

111 people 1804–1853 Non rabid wolves killed 111 people in Estonia, of which 108 were children, 2 were men and 1 woman.[5]

Over a 49 year period, but :eek:

Mickeroo · 18-07-2012 8:16pm

Allyall wrote: »

I'd say they'd give any excuse to kill them... (They're probably not allowed, as they wouldn't be hunting them for meat, and i'd imagine they are endangered.)

In the last year they've lifted sanctions on hunting wolves in a couple of states if I'm not mistaken because the populations have increased to a more stable level.

I think conservation groups didn't quite agree with what they were saying though.

EDIT: Yea, they're no longer "endangered" apparently thanks to Congress: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13086459

Politicians in the US Congress have for the first time removed a previously threatened animal from the nation's endangered species list. The move is the culmination of a long dispute that has pitted the wolves' defenders against hunters who said the animals were devastating wild game they wanted for themselves.

dodderangler · 18-07-2012 8:17pm

Wolves do attack and kill humans mainly rogue wolves or a very familiar one seems to be wolves with sore teeth or a sickness of some sort seem to attack anything and anyone As you can see in Wikipedia here http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks#_
Found it pretty interesting to read bit scary too
Coyotes even do it
In 2009 a up and coming singer was attacked and killed by 3 coyotes
And I'd definately agree that they are more likely to attack in captivity like zoos as wolves have huge territories so humans can be avoided in the wild but in a zoo their territory is smaller and will defend it at all costs

steddyeddy · 18-07-2012 8:21pm

Allyall wrote: »

I'd say they'd give any excuse to kill something...

Its was in response to the decision to release wolves in yellowstone park to replace the wolves that were over hunted there previously. The wolves have since reduced the elk numbers which has lead to increased shrubbery and as a result beavers have been seen in the park. Bears have also been seen in the area recently!

Mickeroo · 18-07-2012 8:23pm

Seems a lot of attacks by non-healthy wolves alright.

There's an interesting tidbit there about attacks by healthy wolves:

Historically, attacks by healthy wolves tended to be clustered in space and time, indicating that human-killing was not a normal behavior for the average wolf, but rather an atypical behavior that single wolves or packs developed and maintained until they were killed.

There's a link to the full academic article its from in the references, might give it a read later: http://www.lcie.org/Docs/Regions/Baltic/Linnell%20AZL%20Wolf%20attacks%20in%20Fennoscandia.pdf

Allyall · 18-07-2012 8:25pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

In the last year they've lifted sanctions on hunting wolves in a couple of states if I'm not mistaken because the populations have increased to a more stable level.

I think conservation groups didn't quite agree with what they were saying though.

EDIT: Yea, they're no longer "endangered" apparently thanks to Congress: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13086459

That's horrific! :mad:
They are now allowing Hunters to kill Wolves, because the Wolves are killing the Animals that the hunters want to kill themselves..?? WTF!

:mad:

That just makes me so angry. I'm not opposed to hunting, nor am i for it. But how the hell does that make any sense? The Wolves are doing it to survive.. Errgh.. My head hurts..:(

Mickeroo · 18-07-2012 8:35pm

Allyall wrote: »

That's horrific! :mad:
They are now allowing Hunters to kill Wolves, because the Wolves are killing the Animals that the hunters want to kill themselves..?? WTF! :mad:

That just makes me so angry. I'm not opposed to hunting, nor am i for it. But how the hell does that make any sense? The Wolves are doing it to survive.. Errgh.. My head hurts..:(

It beggars belief really, especially when you consider the species was almost gone from the states barely 100 years ago.

Adam Khor · 18-07-2012 11:28pm

Here's a site about wolf attacks:

http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_attacks_on_humans.html

I tend to see the whole matter as very simple; wolves are large, powerful and opportunistic carnivores and therefore, there's absolutely no reason why they wouldn´t see humans as prey. If they have learned to avoid humans in many places it is because of the extermination war against them, which has also changed the behavior of other predators that were formerly widely considered man eaters- such as the jaguar. But go to remote places where wolves are left alone- and where there is often no official/systematic record of attacks- and you'll see they go for humans just as they have for thousands of years.

Even the much smaller coyote goes for humans once in a while (and more frequently nowadays).

Birdnuts · 19-07-2012 12:26am

Adam Khor wrote: »

. But go to remote places where wolves are left alone- and where there is often no official/systematic record of attacks- and you'll see they go for humans just as they have for thousands of years.

).

Where are these places?? - very few parts of the world left that don't have a telephone/internet service. Much of Alaska/Canada is extremly remote yet the number of reported wolf attacks are tiny. Certainly compared to the number of people killed by other animals like deer,bison, moose etc.

OpenYourEyes · 19-07-2012 12:35am

Adam Khor wrote: »

. But go to remote places where wolves are left alone- and where there is often no official/systematic record of attacks- and you'll see they go for humans just as they have for thousands of years.

In the more remote places there tends to be more rumours, stories and chinese whispers about large carnivore attacks than there are actual attacks, and that'd be the same throughout history. I'm not saying they don't/havn't attacked people, but I think its less than you're implying.

Adam Khor · 19-07-2012 12:41am

Birdnuts wrote: »

Where are these places?? - very few parts of the world left that don't have a telephone/internet service. Much of Alaska/Canada is extremly remote yet the number of reported wolf attacks are tiny. Certainly compared to the number of people killed by other animals like deer,bison, moose etc.

India and Kazakhstan come to mind. I'm obviously not talking about first world countries. I'm also pretty sure many attacks go unreported. Attacks by jaguars and anacondas to people living in the Amazon basin, and by pythons in certain parts of southeastern Asia are seemingly more common than believed yet they are rarely reported/recorded/heard of in foreign countries.

Birdnuts · 19-07-2012 1:00am

Adam Khor wrote: »

India and Kazakhstan come to mind. I'm obviously not talking about first world countries. I'm also pretty sure many attacks go unreported. Attacks by jaguars and anacondas to people living in the Amazon basin, and by pythons in certain parts of southeastern Asia are seemingly more common than believed yet they are rarely reported/recorded/heard of in foreign countries.

In the case of India I remember reading that many of the reported attacks occur in areas where predators have access to unburied human bodies. This results in a small number of individuals getting a taste for human flesh after natural disasters like floods etc. - something similiar has been reported about Tigers in the Ganges Delta when large numbers of flood victims bodies float downstream and end up in the delta. India also suffers from shocking poverty which means young children are often left orphaned and end up living feral in forests etc where they die and are in turn fed on by local scavangers. I know a person who visited Varasai in India recently and was shocked by the sight of the bodies of young children left to rot in on the outskirts of villages:(

Allyall · 19-07-2012 11:21am

I found this interesting, Especially, how they have migrated from Country to Country, entering Germany in 1998, 35 Wolves in 4 packs.. and as recently as 2011 in Belgium and The Netherlands.

More Wiki Wolves

U.S.

Due to the controversy over wolf shootings, a coalition of environmental groups sued the federal government to put the gray wolf back on the Endangered Species list.[39] On July 18, 2008, a federal judge ruled in favor of renewed endangered species protection.

Although that BBC article is dated 15th of April last year, so i assume they are not on the list now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0E6geAq1k8

Great scene.

dodderangler · 19-07-2012 1:20pm

IMO if an animal attacks a human it's no ones fault but the human
Humans can control instincts
Animals cannot
For example if a bull attacks a human in an open field it's over territory and sees you as a threat
But for predators if hunger is an issue animals will attack and kill a human for food which I don't see a problem as we shouldn't be there in first place
We are cutting away at they forests and land and they are coming into contact with us and are forced to hunt us as we are easy prey again not their fault it's ours
If we enter their territory knowing they are there and get attacked its our fault
Many people attacked always say its they don't blame the animal for attacking because they know they shouldn't of been there in first place

steddyeddy · 19-07-2012 6:48pm

Adam Khor wrote: »

Here's a site about wolf attacks:

http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_attacks_on_humans.html

I tend to see the whole matter as very simple; wolves are large, powerful and opportunistic carnivores and therefore, there's absolutely no reason why they wouldn´t see humans as prey. If they have learned to avoid humans in many places it is because of the extermination war against them, which has also changed the behavior of other predators that were formerly widely considered man eaters- such as the jaguar. But go to remote places where wolves are left alone- and where there is often no official/systematic record of attacks- and you'll see they go for humans just as they have for thousands of years.

Even the much smaller coyote goes for humans once in a while (and more frequently nowadays).

Sorry mods if this is off topic but Is there any evidence that cougar attacks are increasing out of interest?

dodderangler · 19-07-2012 7:04pm

They are indeed
Only ten fatal attacks recorded since 1890 and 5 of which were in past ten years

steddyeddy · 19-07-2012 7:08pm

dodderangler wrote: »

They are indeed
Only ten fatal attacks recorded since 1890 and 5 of which were in past ten years

Thanks man. I remember reading a book from the 1970s describing them as never attacking humans.

MadsL · 19-07-2012 7:37pm

They are a lot of blanket statements about "getting shot" in America.

I'm fortunate enough to live in a part of America that lives with coyotes and has take a stance to let them live and co-exist with them as part of the eco-system. My backyard wall is usefully shaped for coyotes to drive and trap rabbits and I regularly hear the result at night. I'm delighted that they keep the rabbit numbers down and we don't have to go cull rabbit numbers.

We are also trying to reintroduce wolves into the Southwest and actively investigate and prosecute any unlawful killing of wolves as protected species.

PHOENIX (AP) - The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is investigating the death of a Mexican gray wolf in eastern Arizona.

An agency spokesman says the carcass of an adult male gray wolf from the Bluestem Pack was found July 6 west of Big Lake in the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest.

Details about how the wolf died weren't available Wednesday. The carcass has been sent to a forensics laboratory in Oregon for examination.

Fish and Wildlife officials say the wolf was first released into Arizona's Blue Range Wolf Recovery Area in 2006. They say it's the third documented death of a Mexican wolf in that recovery area this year.

There are at least 58 such wolves in the wild in Arizona and New Mexico since the federal government began a reintroduction effort in 1998.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/19062170/another-mexican-gray-wolf-found-dead-in-arizona

Please stop spreading the myth that all Americans shoot coyotes and wolves on sight.

steddyeddy · 19-07-2012 7:43pm

MadsL wrote: »

They are a lot of blanket statements about "getting shot" in America.

I'm fortunate enough to live in a part of America that lives with coyotes and has take a stance to let them live and co-exist with them as part of the eco-system. My backyard wall is usefully shaped for coyotes to drive and trap rabbits and I regularly hear the result at night. I'm delighted that they keep the rabbit numbers down and we don't have to go cull rabbit numbers.

We are also trying to reintroduce wolves into the Southwest and actively investigate and prosecute any unlawful killing of wolves as protected species.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/19062170/another-mexican-gray-wolf-found-dead-in-arizona

Please stop spreading the myth that all Americans shoot coyotes and wolves on sight.

Lived in America for many years and I agree. America has by a long way one of the most responsible attitudes towards wildlife in the world.

dodderangler · 19-07-2012 7:56pm

Thats true
They are very good at controlling animals in a sense That they actually put the time in to get a count of the numbers but also very good at introducing animals back into area they originally were in

Allyall · 19-07-2012 9:45pm

MadsL wrote: »

They are a lot of blanket statements about "getting shot" in America.

I'm fortunate enough to live in a part of America that lives with coyotes and has take a stance to let them live and co-exist with them as part of the eco-system. My backyard wall is usefully shaped for coyotes to drive and trap rabbits and I regularly hear the result at night. I'm delighted that they keep the rabbit numbers down and we don't have to go cull rabbit numbers.

We are also trying to reintroduce wolves into the Southwest and actively investigate and prosecute any unlawful killing of wolves as protected species.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/19062170/another-mexican-gray-wolf-found-dead-in-arizona

Please stop spreading the myth that all Americans shoot coyotes and wolves on sight.

I knew when i said it, how it sounded. I was just a little annoyed that they were taken off the endangered species, and allowed to be hunted/culled.
Sorry.

I know Americans don't go around shooting Wolves on sight.
I remember a few years ago there being a similar outcry against Spanish Farmers, who were shooting Wolves.

It's just a shame that anyone does it. But.. That's how the World turns I suppose.

I'll edit my above post..

Adam Khor · 21-07-2012 11:26pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Thanks man. I remember reading a book from the 1970s describing them as never attacking humans.

A lot of people still thinks of cougars/mountain lions as "cowardly". Curiously, in Argentina they were nicknamed "amigo del cristiano", "friend of the Christians", and there's a famous legend from the 1500's that speaks of a woman who helped a wild cougar deliver her cubs. Later the woman was condemned to death for betrayal and tied to a tree in the jungle to be eaten by wild animals.
When they returned, they were amazed to see that she had been protected by a female cougar who had kept all other cougars and jaguars at bay, returning the favor, kind of like Androcles' lion.

The ironic thing is that nowadays, jaguar attacks are very rare, whereas cougar attacks are increasing at least in North America; jaguars were seen as the man eaters back then.

PS- Birdnuts, that's terrible about the dead kids left to rot... no wonder the wolves and jackals would roam the villages' outskirts after such an invitation.

Reminds me of the Harar town in Ethiopia where something quite unusual happened; the hyenas seemingly had been killing domesticated cattle and also eating children so the people in the town, instead of killing the hyenas, decided to feed them, so that they wouldn´t be hungry and come to the village to attack people.
To this day, hyenas are fed in Harar and they also clean the streets of garbage. Attacks on humans are exceedingly rare, but I can´t help but to think that if one day they stop being fed for whatever reason, they will be so many, and so habituated, that it will be a matter of time before they eat someone, as they do all over Africa btw.
This is probably for a different thread tho :pac:

kippy · 21-07-2012 11:27pm

Adam Khor wrote: »

And there's still those who claim they don´t attack humans...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/9338319/Wolves-kill-Swedish-zoo-worker.html

Dogs have been known to attack humans in certain circumstances, I can see why wolves would also given similar circumstances..........

Adam Khor · 21-07-2012 11:36pm

kippy wrote: »

Dogs have been known to attack humans in certain circumstances, I can see why wolves would also given similar circumstances..........

That is true, and a lot of people don´t realize that sometimes, domestic dogs launch fully predatory attacks on humans as well; it is rare but it happens, particularly when several dogs are involved in the same attack. It seems that being aided by other dogs while attacking triggers a predatory instinct, as if they were hunting a prey animal in the wild. I remember hearing news about packs of feral dogs attacking people like this in Greece or Italy, I don´t remember

Crann na Beatha · 22-07-2012 1:42am

This post has been deleted.

Adam Khor · 22-07-2012 1:56am

Aquila wrote: »

Going a slight bit off topic but has there been recorded cases of lynx attacks on children?

Only captive lynxes. To my knowledge, no attacks of wild lynxes to humans have been recorded (although in countries such as Sweden there are unconfirmed stories about them). I'm talking here about Eurasian lynx- bobcat and Canadian lynx have attacked people, but the former almost always when rabid or in self defense, whereas the only case I know involving the Canadian lynx had the cat attack a man who was carrying dead animals and was probably starving.

On the other hand, the Asian fishing cat has been reported to snatch children, as well as dogs and goats, and is famous for its ferociousness. A famous fishing cat escaped from its cage in a zoo, wandered into a leopard's enclosure... and killed the bigger cat.

Mickeroo · 02-09-2012 7:33pm

Wyoming has now dropped wolves from the endangered list too: http://ens-newswire.com/2012/08/31/conservationists-howl-as-feds-drop-wyoming-wolves-from-endangered-list/

Very dissappointing, pretty much craps on the conservation efforts of the last 30 years. In my view if an animal is endangered and protected as a result it should be a case of learning from mistakes of the past rather than, once the population is recovered, deciding its ok to back to the activity that nearly wiped the species out in the first place.

I have no problem with them putting in measures to prevent the population going over a certain level but classing wolves as "game" is not the way to go. Wolves are an apex predator, they are not prey, they are not meant to be hunted. If they can justify this then i don't see why they don't start launching whaling ships anytime soon either.

It's also a great shame because america was one of the main pioneers of the conservation movement in the first place. At least they can't be hunted within Grand Teton/Yellowstone still.

Wolves kill zookeeper in Sweden

Comments