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Tuning boxes

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  • 25-11-2018 4:09pm
    #1
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    Does anyone on here have any experience of tuning boxes?
    I was considering getting one, but my car is quite old. I was looking for it for efficiency reasons, not outright power reasons.

    It's there any age or mileage that these should not be installed? My car is well looked after and serviced regularly, so I assumed that would help.

    The general consensus seems to be that these can only be installed in fresh motors. Is that correct. I would have thought that maintenance would have been as much of not more important than age?

    Thanks


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    #2
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,915 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    The manufacturer's already tune their cars for maximum efficiency so how can you improve on that.

    The only way to improve a car is on a dyno with a proper diagnostics not a box plugged into a few connectors, either could have insurance issues.


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    #3
    ianobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭ianobrien


    The cheap ones are a waste of time and money as all they are is a resister that fools the ECU into dumping more fuel into the engine. There are decent enough ones out there (eg Superchips). If you want to do it properly, I'd prefer to get a remap as that's written for your specific car.

    The reason why people say not to tune a high mileage engine is the increased power/torque shortens what life is left in the rest of the drivetrain (especially clutches). If you are happy that the rest of the drivetrain is good, it shouldn't be a problem.

    Finally, if the car doesn't have a turbo, forget it. The gains are tiny.


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    #4
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,150 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    What make/model of car is it OP and how old is it? This information will determine whether a tuning box is compatible or not.


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    #5
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,631 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    1. A box stuck on the engine is useless. Look at any Facebook page of someone with a dyno. No difference before and after. If it does anything it'll just be to let in more fuel.

    2. Remapping can deffo improve performance in particular on a turbo diesel. Can massively increase power and torque.

    3. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Any performance improvement comes from increased fuel usage. If you use the performance. You can of course drive a more powerful car more economically than before.

    Basically I call bull**** on these boxes.
    Huge fan of remaps and actually gonna do my car in Jan. But I do not expect an economy increase


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    #6
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,631 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    1. A box stuck on the engine is useless. Look at any Facebook page of someone with a dyno. No difference before and after. If it does anything it'll just be to let in more fuel.

    2. Remapping can deffo improve performance in particular on a turbo diesel. Can massively increase power and torque.

    3. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Any performance improvement comes from increased fuel usage. If you use the performance. You can of course drive a more powerful car more economically than before.

    Basically I call bull**** on these boxes.
    Huge fan of remaps and actually gonna do my car in Jan. But I do not expect an economy increase

    Edit by box I do not include the likes of a revo unit properly tuned to car. I count these as a proper remap.


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    #7
    vectra
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭vectra


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    1. A box stuck on the engine is useless. Look at any Facebook page of someone with a dyno. No difference before and after. If it does anything it'll just be to let in more fuel.

    2. Remapping can deffo improve performance in particular on a turbo diesel. Can massively increase power and torque.

    3. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Any performance improvement comes from increased fuel usage. If you use the performance. You can of course drive a more powerful car more economically than before.

    Basically I call bull**** on these boxes.
    Huge fan of remaps and actually gonna do my car in Jan. But I do not expect an economy increase


    Not true

    There are genuine tuning boxes out there.


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    #8
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,538 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The manufacturer's already tune their cars for maximum efficiency so how can you improve on that.

    No they dont, and it totally depends on your driving style and conditions. Manufacturers tune the car to run under the least strain, and under the greatest range of conditions. A tune can greatly improve economy for certain people.
    Del2005 wrote: »
    The only way to improve a car is on a dyno with a proper diagnostics not a box plugged into a few connectors, either could have insurance issues.

    Again this is untrue, Cars can be tuned remotely, tuning boxes like JB4 work wonders by altering the turbo pressure and fuel mixture, and even simple piggyback boxes that trick a turbo car into thinking its at higher altitude can get good power gains.

    Yes a custom tune is likely better, but plug and play boxes can be a goot removable option.


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    #9
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,631 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    vectra wrote: »
    Not true

    There are genuine tuning boxes out there.

    Yep.
    Few and far between.


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    #10
    vectra
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭vectra


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    1. A box stuck on the engine is useless.



    Basically I call bull**** on these boxes.
    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    Yep.
    Few and far between.

    So which is it?

    And which do you have personal experience with?


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    #11
    V8 Interceptor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    You can of course drive a more powerful car more economically than before

    So if you drive the same way as you did before it was remapped you'll save fuel?


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    #12
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,631 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    vectra wrote: »
    So which is it?

    And which do you have personal experience with?

    I have had 4 cars remapped. 3 with dyno before and after. I will be having a 5th remapped in jan/Feb.

    I tried a cheap tuning box in 2008 on a 2003 a4 130 BHP. I then removed it and had mapped by Joe Power. The difference was night and day. Box was in my opinion doing nothing.

    My point is you get what you pay for. There are tuning boxes such as Revo that the lads in Enfield used to do that do work. But they are dearer than a remap.

    Perhaps you have different experiences.

    I've never seen efficiency improvements from a map. Many claim they have. I can see why as theoretically you wouldn't need to push a higher powered car as hard to accelerate. But the temptation is too great....


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    #13
    vectra
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭vectra


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    I have had 4 cars remapped. 3 with dyno before and after. I will be having a 5th remapped in jan/Feb.

    I tried a cheap tuning box in 2008 on a 2003 a4 130 BHP. I then removed it and had mapped by Joe Power. The difference was night and day. Box was in my opinion doing nothing.

    My point is you get what you pay for. There are tuning boxes such as Revo that the lads in Enfield used to do that do work. But they are dearer than a remap.

    Perhaps you have different experiences.

    I've never seen efficiency improvements from a map. Many claim they have. I can see why as theoretically you wouldn't need to push a higher powered car as hard to accelerate. But the temptation is too great....

    Bluefin works a dream on Fords. ;)
    Not the cheapest
    But they work
    and work extremely well.


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    #14
    rex-x
    Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭rex-x


    vectra wrote: »
    Bluefin works a dream on Fords. ;)
    Not the cheapest
    But they work
    and work extremely well.

    Bluefin are not a tuning box. They are a proper remap but contained in a unit that allows you to flash your own ecu easily.

    The OP drivers a Citroen with a 2.0 HDi engine. How a 'tuning box' would work on these is it connect between the rail pressure sensor and the rail and fools the ecu into thinking the pressure is lower than it is. The pump will compensate and raise the pressure and you get more fuel as a result. This will hammer the pump and injectors and while you will notice a difference it is nothing like a remap (which don't touch the stock 1350 bar pressure limit unless well beyond stage 2 territory on a HDi).

    There are some genuine piggyback style ecu's that do work well but I have never seen a 'tuning box' that is actually any good.


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    #15
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    What price would a remap be and would it be wise to do on a 18yo car in good mechanical health? (Would they even do it?).
    I presume part of the remap would require a new clutch kit installation?

    I'm running the car on until it dies, so would appreciate a bit more power if possible. Although probably not worth it on such an old car.


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    #16
    V8 Interceptor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    What car is it?


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    #17
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    2.0HDi 90 Xsara.
    A bit gutless.


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    #18
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,150 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    What price would a remap be and would it be wise to do on a 18yo car in good mechanical health? (Would they even do it?).
    I presume part of the remap would require a new clutch kit installation?

    I'm running the car on until it dies, so would appreciate a bit more power if possible. Although probably not worth it on such an old car.

    You will pay between 350 and 450 for a good custom remap and dyno run to measure the changes. Of course you can get it done cheaper than that from a guy with a laptop and OBD2 cable who will download a generic map and meet you in a car park.

    And no a clutch kit is not installed as part of a remap. A remap is only a software change to the car's ECU in order to alter performance. A good tuner will not remap the car in such a way that will break your clutch or flywheel. The most common reasons a clutch or flywheel fail after a remap is if the driver starts trashing the car to within an inch of it's life causing premature wear/failure on parts such as the clutch/flywheel or if the clutch/flywheel were already on their way out before the remap.


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    #19
    fancy pigeon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,861 ✭✭✭fancy pigeon


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    2.0HDi 90 Xsara.
    A bit gutless.

    An intercooler would be a start. Better flowing nozzles, bigger HP pump and large turbo back setup on a bigger turbo next. Have a yap with these guys

    Or you could swap in an XUD with everything to make it work fully and turn it up and down at will... :p


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    #20
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    bazz26 wrote: »
    And no a clutch kit is not installed as part of a remap.
    I know it is not part of a reamp, but I have read that it is recommended that if your clutch is on way out that it is a good idea to replace it in order to handle the increased power.


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    #21
    rex-x
    Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭rex-x


    fancy pigeon wrote: »
    An intercooler would be a start. Better flowing nozzles, bigger HP pump and large turbo back setup on a bigger turbo next. Have a yap with these guys

    Or you could swap in an XUD with everything to make it work fully and turn it up and down at will... :p
    No such thing as larger nozzles for the 90 hdi, they have a totally unique angle! Besides the standard injectors and pump will do 180 hp if in good fettle :) Steve from hdi tuning (your link) is pretty good


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    #22
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    fancy pigeon wrote: »
    An intercooler would be a start. Better flowing nozzles, bigger HP pump and large turbo back setup on a bigger turbo next. Have a yap with these guys

    Or you could swap in an XUD with everything to make it work fully and turn it up and down at will... :p

    Not worth going to much bother. £150 for 120BHp (+30Bhp) and 270Nm (+60Nm) - worth it?


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    #23
    V8 Interceptor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    I know it is not part of a reamp, but I have read that it is recommended that if your clutch is on way out that it is a good idea to replace it in order to handle the increased power.

    If she's on the way out replace it along with the remap.


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    #24
    selectamatic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,897 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    With a straight pipe and an intercooler I always thought a 2.0hdi 90 would remap to about 150bhp.


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