2015 - New Drug Checkpoints - Wait 15mins

pippip · 18-02-2014 11:19am #1

New checkpoints to catch people driving under the influence of drugs will be rolled out in 2015. The test takes 15mins so drivers will have to wait before being allowed proceed or arrested.

I'm all for safety on the roads but this is a bit too disruptive.

http://www.herald.ie/news/new-roadside-drugs-tests-to-delay-drivers-by-15-minutes-30016848.html

keithclancy · 18-02-2014 11:23am

pippip wrote: »

New checkpoints to catch people driving under the influence of drugs will be rolled out in 2015. The test takes 15mins so drivers will have to wait before being allowed proceed or arrested.

I'm all for safety on the roads but this is a bit too disruptive.

http://www.herald.ie/news/new-roadside-drugs-tests-to-delay-drivers-by-15-minutes-30016848.html

I've been stopped once at a checkpoint in Ireland since 2001 and I wasn't even driving.

15 minutes over 12 years doesn't seem like a big deal and they didn't even stop everyone.

Tzardine · 18-02-2014 11:27am

I fully agree with the drug testing. I imagine that there will be a lot of people caught by this.

15 mins does seem like a while though.

I can imagine the Gardai stopping a speeder who is ignorant and says they are in a hurry . Oh its a 15 min drug test for you laddie / lassie

djimi · 18-02-2014 11:29am

keithclancy wrote: »

15 minutes over 12 years doesn't seem like a big deal and they didn't even stop everyone.

15 minutes is a long time if you are running late for work/an appointment etc.

Massively excessive imo. I have no problem with random testing, but it has to be near instant. Detaining someone for 15 minutes is not acceptable.

colm_mcm · 18-02-2014 11:30am

Conviction of drug driving is disproportionately low compared to drink driver testing which itself is not a common enough sight to deter a lot of people.

I've only been breathalysed once, in 2009, driving 15 years.

BMJD · 18-02-2014 11:31am

djimi wrote: »

15 minutes is a long time if you are running late for work/an appointment etc.

Massively excessive imo. I have no problem with random testing, but it has to be near instant. Detaining someone for 15 minutes is not acceptable.

I agree, if it is a problem then do a test on anyone involved in an accident.

keithclancy · 18-02-2014 11:33am

BMJD wrote: »

I agree, if it is a problem then do a test on anyone involved in an accident.

It's a bit late after everyone is dead.

Tzardine · 18-02-2014 11:35am

colm_mcm wrote: »

Conviction of drug driving is disproportionately low compared to drink driver testing which itself is not a common enough sight to deter a lot of people.

I've only been breathalysed once, in 2009, driving 15 years.

I think once testing come into place the conviction rate will soar. I have a couple of younger brothers and I am told that it is so common for young lads to be driving after smoking hash. Its so much more "acceptable" than drink driving :rolleyes:

I also know a few older people (50's) who are massive hash users and have no problem at all in smoking before going out in the car.

I do agree that the amount of checkpoints is still too low. I would hope to see this increase now with the Gardai recruiting again.

BMJD · 18-02-2014 11:38am

keithclancy wrote: »

It's a bit late after everyone is dead.

how many times has that happened though? is drug driving that much of a problem? is it worth sitting on the side of the road for 15 minutes, could that Garda time be better spent doing something more effective at reducing road accidents?
I suspect it's just Varadkar blowing hot air again

corsav6 · 18-02-2014 11:38am

This should be fun, 15 min delay and roads blocked everywhere with people waiting for results. I can only see it been enforced for known drug users.

keithclancy · 18-02-2014 11:53am

BMJD wrote: »

how many times has that happened though? is drug driving that much of a problem? is it worth sitting on the side of the road for 15 minutes, could that Garda time be better spent doing something more effective at reducing road accidents?
I suspect it's just Varadkar blowing hot air again

Yes, its worth it.

Like drink driving was ok before they clamped down on it, people that take cocaine/mdma/cannibis will head out in the car knowing that the Gardai couldn't test for it anyway.

FFS you could be sitting in a traffic jam for 15 minutes, just something you accept as a road user.

Loads of people in Ireland take drugs .. In my experience its even more prevalent than in the Netherlands.

colm_mcm · 18-02-2014 11:59am

corsav6 wrote: »

This should be fun, 15 min delay and roads blocked everywhere with people waiting for results. I can only see it been enforced for known drug users.

Do you not think they'd let other traffic past?

Bandara · 18-02-2014 12:10pm

Obviously the guards are not going to drug test unless they have reason to believe it's justified

It's not rocket science to see if someone has may have used drugs. And they will also have the profile of the likely people to look out for.

Badly needed in this country,, the drinking alone is getting scarier. This morning at 8:35 I was checking the customer toilets in one of my garages, empty half bottle sized vodka bottle on the floor in the toilets. The toilet was fully cleaned and checked at 6am. We are a petrol station with very few customers on foot. It's scary stuff, and is getting more and more common to find this stuff over the last few years.

Eric Cartman · 18-02-2014 12:20pm

Itll be interesting to see what limits this catches, lets say somebody was smoking ganj on a saturday night and didnt drive till monday morning , they are no longer high and pose no elevated level of danger to other road users , but the sample may still come up positive which would be a massive problem, both in gaining convictions for people who are under the influence at the time and unfair to recreational users not harming anyone.

Also as said above I think it will definitely be a profiling issue , males under 30 in disadvantaged areas or driving modified cars, 'random' checkpoints coming your way soon.

SleeperService · 18-02-2014 12:27pm

Can't see any TDs (apart from the obvious) coming out with the "shur a lotta people do drive better after a joint / prescription sedatives, shur it do steady the nerves" like has happened for drink driving in the past.

Wonder will gardai test as many dawdling housewives as tracksuit tucked into sockss types. I swear there's loads of them on some sort of prescription meds giving them worse reactions than any stoner.

Tzardine · 18-02-2014 12:32pm

SleeperService wrote: »

Can't see any TDs (apart from the obvious) coming out with the "shur a lotta people do drive better after a joint / prescription sedatives, shur it do steady the nerves" like has happened for drink driving in the past.

Wonder will gardai test as many dawdling housewives as tracksuit tucked into sockss types. I swear there's loads of them on some sort of prescription meds giving them worse reactions than any stoner.

You are probably right , but according to the article the test could probably only test for a few substances. Cannabis / Ecstasy / Methamphetamine being the most popular.

I have worked a lot with pharmacies over the past few years and I have also witnessed a fair few get methadone and jump in the car. Crazy stuff.

SleeperService · 18-02-2014 12:57pm

Hmm thought they would implement some general test of incapacitation - stand on one leg, touch your nose while giving alphabet backwards kinda thing.

Wetbench4 · 18-02-2014 1:02pm

cannabis stays in your system for 6 weeks, so prove i just smoked a joint. Fcuking hate this country

tossy · 18-02-2014 1:04pm

So i'm going to Amsterdam this weekend to watch Ajax play, i will undoubtedly have a smoke or two. I come back Monday morning, Tuesday morning i'm driving to work and i'm tested - how does that work?

MrDerp · 18-02-2014 1:06pm

I have 8mm pupils under normal lighting conditions (usually people have around 5mm). I know this from getting laser eye surgery a couple of years ago - it meant I required a more expensive variant.

If pupil size is one of the indicators used, I will certainly see a test at some point, should I go through a checkpoint and get examined.

Hopefully driving a volvo will prevent me being profiled enough to have my eyes examined in the first place

Gran Hermano · 18-02-2014 1:09pm

tossy wrote: »

So i'm going to Amsterdam this weekend to watch Ajax play, i will undoubtedly have a smoke or two. I come back Monday morning, Tuesday morning i'm driving to work and i'm tested - how does that work?

Most likely it'll be a case where if it's still in your system you'll test positive and be charged.
Pretty sure under current legislation once it is in your system it is seen as you are under the influence. As you said you might have used/taken something some weeks back but technically still be seen and prosecuted for being under the influence.

Wetbench4 · 18-02-2014 1:13pm

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Most likely it'll be a case where if it's still in your system you'll test positive and be charged.
Pretty sure under current legislation once it is in your system it is seen as you are under the influence. As you said you might have used/taken something some weeks back but technically still be seen and prosecuted for being under the influence.

But that would be impossible because you wouldn't still be under the influence. The influence lasts a few hours max but will be in your system for weeks.

tossy · 18-02-2014 1:15pm

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Most likely it'll be a case where if it's still in your system you'll test positive and be charged.
Pretty sure under current legislation once it is in your system it is seen as you are under the influence. As you said you might have used/taken something some weeks back but technically still be seen and prosecuted for being under the influence.

It's very flawed though.

Gran Hermano · 18-02-2014 1:16pm

Wetbench4 wrote: »

But that would be impossible because you wouldn't still be under the influence. The influence lasts a few hours max but will be in your system for weeks.

There have been a couple of threads here on Motors and on the Legal forum over the years where people have been done for drug driving in a similar scenario. They had a smoke on the weekend but tested positive days later.

Anan1 · 18-02-2014 1:16pm

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Most likely it'll be a case where if it's still in your system you'll test positive and be charged.
Pretty sure under current legislation once it is in your system it is seen as you are under the influence. As you said you might have used/taken something some weeks back but technically still be seen and prosecuted for being under the influence.

Which is manifestly unjust.

djimi · 18-02-2014 1:22pm

Wetbench4 wrote: »

But that would be impossible because you wouldn't still be under the influence. The influence lasts a few hours max but will be in your system for weeks.

Same as still being over the alcohol limit the next morning I suppose. You mightnt be drunk enough for it to impare your driving, but its still showing in your system.

I suppose if its an issue then maybe then can adjust the limits to take it into account?

Greenmachine · 18-02-2014 1:24pm

Piss test/ Blood test in the back of a police van and a court summons if found guilty would make more sense. Quicker and more people processed. Not only that but a much wider range of substances can be tested.

tossy · 18-02-2014 1:25pm

djimi wrote: »

Same as still being over the alcohol limit the next morning I suppose. You mightnt be drunk enough for it to impare your driving, but its still showing in your system.

I suppose if its an issue then maybe then can adjust the limits to take it into account?

They won't though, it's Ireland if you have 'hash' in your system you must be a junkie "he's out of it on de hash, look at the eyes on him"

Anan1 · 18-02-2014 1:26pm

djimi wrote: »

Same as still being over the alcohol limit the next morning I suppose. You mightnt be drunk enough for it to impare your driving, but its still showing in your system.

Over 0.5 is over 0.5 regardless of the time of day or night.

djimi wrote: »

I suppose if its an issue then maybe then can adjust the limits to take it into account?

That'd make sense.

djimi · 18-02-2014 1:31pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Over 0.5 is over 0.5 regardless of the time of day or night.

I know. Im just using it as a comparative example where you can have a residual trace amount in your system that puts you technically over the limit, but youre no longer drunk to the point where your driving is impaired. Its not an excuse to drive over the limit, but with alcohol the limits are set so as to allow for this, and its possible that the same will happen here.

Depends though at what rate cannabis leaves your system, and how long it would be until it is deemed that the trace amount is not causing an impairment to your driving. Alcohol is relatively quick to leave your system in this regard, but they cannot legislate for something that will take days to leave your system.

Wetbench4 · 18-02-2014 1:32pm

These are the same people who get pissed down dail bar before make crap decisions for us and our country. Why they are allowed to get pissed while "driving" our country, should be the real question. Plenty of coke residue found in their toilets too iirc....

MugMugs · 18-02-2014 1:34pm

15 minute wait?

Throw a tube of pringles in the window and you'll know in a few seconds !

Still can't understand how low the penalty is for drug driving.

Gran Hermano · 18-02-2014 2:10pm

I wouldn't call a 4 year ban low.
Plus I wouldn't like to be the person looking for an insurance quote having a drug driving conviction.

I remember an Austrian friend telling me some years back that he gave up smoking after moving home as the law there was similar at the time. (Drugs are illegal therefore there is no safe limit. Once you have even a trace in your system you're technically under the influence).

CiniO · 18-02-2014 2:21pm

djimi wrote: »

15 minutes is a long time if you are running late for work/an appointment etc.

Massively excessive imo. I have no problem with random testing, but it has to be near instant. Detaining someone for 15 minutes is not acceptable.

I'd imagine they wouldn't be testing everyone.
Even if they pull over everyone on checkpoint, garda officer proceeding those tests, should be trained to recognise (by looks, behaviour, etc) people who look suspicious and test only them.

CiniO · 18-02-2014 2:28pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I've only been breathalysed once, in 2009, driving 15 years.

I drive a lot in Ireland since 2007, and I was brethylised once as well.
And TBH it was a nightmare - 20 minutes traffic jam as they were stopping everyone at the checkpoint and brethylising everyone. It took them approx 1 minute with one car (to give mouthpiece, unpack it, blow, check the result, etc).

IMHO that's pure nonsense to delay people that much without a reason.
If test takes 1 minute, and they have say 3 brethylisers, they should only stop 3 cars per minute (randomly), which wouldn't cause delay for everyone.

Also for comparision - I spend 5 weeks in Poland over Christmas period this winter. I drove about 4500 km in there. I was pulled over at road checks 4 times during that time, 3 of which included brethylising.
However purely brethylising checks are way better organised there than in Ireland. Policeman standing in the middle of the road pulling over everyone, but it takes lot quicker. Just open the window - blow towards the device (contactless, without any mouthpiece), result in 1 second, and go. It doesn't take more than 5 - 10 seconds per car from moment of stopping to moment of leaving.

Guy:Incognito · 18-02-2014 2:31pm

djimi wrote: »

Same as still being over the alcohol limit the next morning I suppose. You mightnt be drunk enough for it to impare your driving, but its still showing in your system.

I suppose if its an issue then maybe then can adjust the limits to take it into account?

If your over the limit an hour after drinking or have loads more drink and blow the same reading the following morning you the same level of drunk.

CiniO · 18-02-2014 2:35pm

djimi wrote: »

Same as still being over the alcohol limit the next morning I suppose. You mightnt be drunk enough for it to impare your driving, but its still showing in your system.

If alcohol concentration in your blood next morning is above 50mg limit, then it is enough to impair your driving, same as you were just after having 2 pints and having the same alcohol concentration in your blood.

mb1725 · 18-02-2014 2:51pm

I'm waiting for the Healy Raes to comment on this! :rolleyes:

Gran Hermano · 18-02-2014 2:56pm

mb1725 wrote: »

I'm waiting for the Healy Raes to comment on this! :rolleyes:

I'm wondering whether Ming is getting a chauffeur.

daRobot · 18-02-2014 4:28pm

And what about those off their tits on prescription pills/painkillers? Grand I suppose?

Greyfoot · 18-02-2014 4:53pm

keithclancy wrote: »

It's a bit late after everyone is dead.

After every fatal collision they perform an alcohol and a string of known substances test on the deceased rest assured if the cause of accident is unclear.

Greyfoot · 18-02-2014 4:59pm

I`ll be frank here peeps, I never caused accident back in the days while high, however when drink driving, only the problems, couple of crashes, thank God nobody hurt shieet ,I despise drink driving more than anything here even though I quit cut mostly every bad habits of my life.

seamus · 18-02-2014 5:01pm

daRobot wrote: »

And what about those off their tits on prescription pills/painkillers? Grand I suppose?

Anything which is strong enough to impair your judgement will probably show up, illegal or otherwise.

Chances are this 15 minute wait will be the last step in the process.

If the Garda reckons you look a bit off, he'll take you out and do the standard sobriety test, and if you don't stand up to that, you'll have the drug test done.

For most people, this will be nothing more than a quick look in the car, check tax and off you go.

BMJD · 18-02-2014 5:16pm

Greyfoot wrote: »

I`ll be frank here peeps, I never caused accident back in the days while high, however when drink driving, only the problems, couple of crashes, thank God nobody hurt shieet ,I despise drink driving more than anything here even though I quit cut mostly every bad habits of my life.

keithclancy · 18-02-2014 5:33pm

daRobot wrote: »

And what about those off their tits on prescription pills/painkillers? Grand I suppose?

No, but it's not a case of "What about x group of people"

E.G. What about vegetarians, they could pull a whitey due to lack of iron :P

blackwhite · 18-02-2014 5:37pm

What is the current "Drug-driving" legislation?

Is is driving whilst under the influence of drugs, driving whilst impaired, or simply driving with drugs in your system?

If it's impaired then I guess it's up to the individual garda to form a judgement on whether you are impaired, and a judge will then decide whether they are correct or not.
If it's "under the influence", at what level of a given drug are you considered to be "under the influence"?

If it's simply having drugs in your system, what happens if you happen to inhale some smoke passively (i.e. second-hand smoke from someone smoking beside you?), but not to such anywhere near a level as to have impair you, but enough to show up on a test?

felimd · 18-02-2014 5:46pm

A tiny bit of research shows that cannabis is detectable in saliva for up to 12 hours. It can stay in urine or blood for weeks but that won't be tested unless you fail the saliva test.

Panic over stoners.

Turner · 18-02-2014 6:06pm

I dont see a problem with the 15 minute wait...

At the moment Gardai can detain you at the roadside for anywhere up to an hour under drink driving legislation for you to give a breath sample.

If you have drank alcohol in the past 20 mins they will normally detain you for a further 20 mins so the alcohol in your mouth dissipates and doesn't affect the breath tester.

carzony · 18-02-2014 6:27pm

Sure they can barely respond to every day calls and now want to have people waiting at check points for 15 minutes lol.. This is only gonna make response times longer and increase work load trying to implement this..

2015 - New Drug Checkpoints - Wait 15mins

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