Fatal Collisions

s1ippy · 26-09-2020 8:33pm #1

I feel like it's at least the third time this week I've read that somebody who took somebody else's life with their careless driving is being "treated for shock" at the scene.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-75-dies-after-being-hit-by-van-in-co-cork-1.4365623

A pedestrian is dead because someone dropping a child off at football thought nothing of lashing their van around the car park without due consideration for those around them. The sympathy I have for the deceased man's family vastly outweighs that which I have for the "shocked" van driver. His carelessness caused the entire issue.

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/2020/09/26/gardai-believe-man-may-have-died-in-traffic-collision-while-riding-electric-scooter-on-slane-navan-road/

Hit and runs are also ten a penny lately. If someone I knew ever confided in me that they were responsible for murdering somebody on the road and fleeing the scene, I would straight away report them no matter who they were to me. Scum.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/576277/limerick-school-shows-its-love-for-pupil-injured-in-road-collision.html

https://www.thejournal.ie/man-dies-crash-co-mayo-5214360-Sep2020/

There are more injuries and fatal crashes just from today's news. Two more young people injured by pricks on the road, one now dead.

Why don't people wake the hell up and drive with consideration for those around them. Then they wouldn't be so shocked because they wouldn't end up killing someone.

Seth Brundle · 26-09-2020 8:36pm

If you want to kill someone and get away with it then use a car!

bobbyy gee · 26-09-2020 8:40pm

when I drive a van and its reversing
the reverse lights go on and van starts beeping it's warning
but people still walk behind it and also cars drive past .i have a big blind spot and can't see either people or cars .i would be blamed but it's their fault if you see reverse lights on a car or van dont cross its path with a car you have more hope of seeing someone but less so in a van

s1ippy · 26-09-2020 8:56pm

bobbyy gee wrote: »

when I drive a van and its reversing
the reverse lights go on and van starts beeping it's warning
but people still walk behind it and also cars drive past .i have a big blind spot and can't see either people or cars .i would be blamed but it's their fault if you see reverse lights on a car or van dont cross its path with a car you have more hope of seeing someone but less so in a van

If you really aren't confident that you can see what's behind you, get a camera. They're not even that expensive.
https://www.halfords.ie/technology/reversing-cameras/echomaster-reversing-camera-with-dynamic-parking-lines-825346.html

Or stick your head out the window, and shout, and go really slowly, and keep checking for anyone. All just small precautions which hardly take any time but could mean preventing the loss of human life. You have to be driving fairly recklessly to kill someone stone dead.

Gatling · 26-09-2020 9:00pm

s1ippy wrote: »

If you really aren't confident that you can see what's behind you, get a camera. They're not even that expensive.
https://www.halfords.ie/technology/reversing-cameras/echomaster-reversing-camera-with-dynamic-parking-lines-825346.html

Or stick your head out the window, and shout, and go really slowly, and keep checking for anyone. All just small precautions which hardly take any time but could mean preventing the loss of human life. You have to be driving fairly recklessly to kill someone stone dead.

Talking about sensational posting .

It seems to have been a simple ,tragic accident

s1ippy · 26-09-2020 9:21pm

I just discovered that the man killed was an incredible musician and very good friend of mine who I often played with in the Haven cafe in Cork. I'm absolutely devastated by this news as I had planned to meet him and have a jam just this week, having not seen him since just before the last lockdown. A huge loss to Cork.

corsav6 · 26-09-2020 9:36pm

s1ippy wrote: »

If you really aren't confident that you can see what's behind you, get a camera. They're not even that expensive.
https://www.halfords.ie/technology/reversing-cameras/echomaster-reversing-camera-with-dynamic-parking-lines-825346.html

Or stick your head out the window, and shout, and go really slowly, and keep checking for anyone. All just small precautions which hardly take any time but could mean preventing the loss of human life. You have to be driving fairly recklessly to kill someone stone dead.

That seems to be just the camera and no viewing monitor, unless I'm missing something.

This seems to be a full kit for under €80 but I have no idea what it's like https://www.halfords.ie/technology/reversing-cameras/echomaster-monitor-and-reversing-camera-kit-668237.html

Thelonious Monk · 26-09-2020 11:09pm

It has just been normalised that people die at the hands of motorised vehicles every couple of days. Can you imagine some new machine that people started using made 3 people's heads explode a week or something? Because that's what's happening really.

26-09-2020 11:34pm

s1ippy wrote: »

If you really aren't confident that you can see what's behind you, get a camera. They're not even that expensive.
https://www.halfords.ie/technology/reversing-cameras/echomaster-reversing-camera-with-dynamic-parking-lines-825346.html

Or stick your head out the window, and shout, and go really slowly, and keep checking for anyone. All just small precautions which hardly take any time but could mean preventing the loss of human life. You have to be driving fairly recklessly to kill someone stone dead.

How can any can driver be confident of seeing behind them? They can't and suggesting they but optional extras when the vehicle is 100% road legal is typical 'blame everyone but myself'.

It's a well known blind spot and any reasonable intelligent adult should take the necessary precautions to save their lives instead of walking behind a reversing van and then blaming the driver.

26-09-2020 11:37pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It has just been normalised that people die at the hands of motorised vehicles every couple of days. Can you imagine some new machine that people started using made 3 people's heads explode a week or something? Because that's what's happening really.

Is it though? Are cars causing people's heads to explode randomly? Or are cars being used by thousands of people daily and sometimes through driver error and in fact not because the if the vehicle, there's a fatal accident. 130 fatal collisions in 2019. Considering usage, that's a drop in the ocean

26-09-2020 11:40pm

corsav6 wrote: »

That seems to be just the camera and no viewing monitor, unless I'm missing something.

This seems to be a full kit for under €80 but I have no idea what it's like https://www.halfords.ie/technology/reversing-cameras/echomaster-monitor-and-reversing-camera-kit-668237.html

Buy online and install yourself. Lightinthebox and the likes have them for 40 euro.

s1ippy · 27-09-2020 1:21am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

How can any can driver be confident of seeing behind them? They can't and suggesting they but optional extras when the vehicle is 100% road legal is typical 'blame everyone but myself'.

It's a well known blind spot and any reasonable intelligent adult should take the necessary precautions to save their lives instead of walking behind a reversing van and then blaming the driver.

Nobody can blame anyone when they're dead, like Pete today.

He has a loving family and his life is over now because some an impatient person with a weaponised mechanical box veered backwards into him without adequately checking to see if there was anyone there.

There's a blind spot between the back and front door when you're driving a car as well but you look over your shoulder and wait until you've done due diligence checking that nobody has entered or is about to leave it.

I feel sick that he's been killed. When I started this thread I was just sickened by the incident being reported, but now that I know who it is, I'm absolutely devastated. He's honestly the fittest man I know, he did 25 pushups for 25 days for charity there recently and he's in his 70s. We gigged together once a week there this time last year for a couple of months. He played a twelve string guitar with a harmonica and loved life, was always having the craic.

I hope they treat his wife and children for shock as well, seeing as they did it for the individual that mowed him down.

27-09-2020 2:36am

My mistake, I thought the majority of collisions were not fatal.

Wishbone Ash · 27-09-2020 7:24am

bobbyy gee wrote: »

when I drive a van and its reversing
the reverse lights go on and van starts beeping it's warning
but people still walk behind it and also cars drive past ..

That may be so but, in road traffic regulations, a driver of a reversing vehicle has no right of way at any time and must give way to all other road users. Reversing lights and a warning sound do not override other road users right of way.

CalamariFritti · 27-09-2020 7:38am

Exactly that. If you don't know whats going behind you then you cant go. My van was beeping tough sh1t is total nonsense.

RobAMerc · 27-09-2020 7:44am

s1ippy wrote: »

thought nothing of lashing their van around the car park without due consideration for those around them........
His carelessness caused the entire issue.

s1ippy wrote: »

. You have to be driving fairly recklessly to kill someone stone dead.

s1ippy wrote: »

He has a loving family and his life is over now because some an impatient person with a weaponised mechanical box veered backwards into him without adequately checking to see if there was anyone there.

There's a blind spot between the back and front door when you're driving a car as well but you look over your shoulder and wait until you've done due diligence checking that nobody has entered or is about to leave it.

Seriously ? I know you are upset and saddened by the news of the death of your friend - but I think you are looking to paint a picture here that may not exist, and your choice of language does nothing for the people remaining - their lives have been impacted horrendously by the tragic events too.

No where does it say the driver was lashing around or driving carelessly and you using that language does nothing but show your own emotional impact. It doesn't mean its true and is very unfair to the driver.
Despite what you hear Accidents do happen !

MJohnston · 27-09-2020 9:08am

The biggest problem is caused by the fact that drivers downright refuse to take responsibility for the fact that they’re driving machines that are so easily capable of ending someone’s life. Because cars are so commonplace, it’s like we’ve been lulled into believing they’re safe.

So every incident involving a pedestrian or cyclist death becomes a sick game of “how can we blame the victim for what happened?”

Walking behind a van? Your fault for the driver being too impatient to reverse very slowly.

Hit by a traffic light that collapsed because a truck hit it? Just one of those risks you take and sure the pedestrian should have been paying more attention.

Cyclist killed by car? Probably wasn’t wearing high vis (or if they were wearing high-vis then it was still their fault because the high-vis “blended in with a tree” — an actual successful defence used by someone).

I can’t understand it. Is attentiveness too difficult? Does the modern car detach people too much from their surroundings? Is the act of commuting by car so inherently selfish that further acts of selfishness come naturally? What is behind the utter callousness that a huge proportion of drivers exhibit?

And what makes the general public so predisposed to excusing drivers’ bad behaviour?

Duckjob · 27-09-2020 10:16am

When walking in the car park to/from my car to the supermarket, I often gesture to drivers to slow down as you see these idiots flying up the lanes between the cars with this stupid who-but-me driving style. They either look at me like I've got two heads or in some cases shout some abuse. It's like they don't realise or care that they're prioritising < 5 seconds over other peoples safety and lives. It's why we badly, badly need presumed liability laws such as practiced by the Dutch.

KaneToad · 27-09-2020 10:27am

I'm tending to agree with the OP. The onus is on the driver when manoeuvring to go ridiculously slowly if they can't see the area they are moving into. The speed has to be sufficiently slow that any collision that does occur isn't enough to knock someone off their feet.

The lamentations and hand wringing after an 'accident' are of no use to the victim.

Padre_Pio · 27-09-2020 10:44am

KaneToad wrote: »

I'm tending to agree with the OP. The onus is on the driver when manoeuvring to go ridiculously slowly if they can't see the area they are moving into. The speed has to be sufficiently slow that any collision that does occur isn't enough to knock someone off their feet.

The lamentations and hand wringing after an 'accident' are of no use to the victim.

I definitely agree with the OP.

Your feet are on the pedals when you're reversing. If you can't reverse safely in whatever car/bus/van/truck you happen to be driving, then get some lessons, practice and get a camera until you are confident and safe.

Accidents are rare. Usually someone is at fault, through inattentiveness or complacency.

tayto lover · 27-09-2020 10:46am

If I drive a van I always endeavour to find a spot to park that I can drive out of rather than reverse because of the blind spot. I might have to walk a little farther but it’s worth it. If I have to reverse I do it very slowly and beep the horn to warn people I’m moving.

Thelonious Monk · 27-09-2020 10:55am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I definitely agree with the OP.

Your feet are on the pedals when you're reversing. If you can't reverse safely in whatever car/bus/van/truck you happen to be driving, then get some lessons, practice and get a camera until you are confident and safe.

Accidents are rare. Usually someone is at fault, through inattentiveness or complacency.

There were two pensioner pedestrians killed by motorists in the last few days, and a cyclist last week, just wait a while and it'll happen again. It's not rare at all.
It barely makes the news as it is just accepted. It shouldn't be.

Padre_Pio · 27-09-2020 10:58am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

There were two pensioner pedestrians killed by motorists in the last few days, and a cyclist last week, just wait a while and it'll happen again. It's not rare at all.
It barely makes the news as it is just accepted. It shouldn't be.

I would almost guarantee they were not unavoidable accidents, but very preventable if the motorists were paying more attention.

Pkiernan · 27-09-2020 10:58am

There are no traffic accidents.

There are traffic "negligents".

Too fast, too impatient, not paying attention, driving while drunk or high.

These are intentional, negligent acts, not accidents.

Seth Brundle · 27-09-2020 11:18am

Pkiernan wrote: »

There are no traffic accidents.

There are traffic "negligents".

Too fast, too impatient, not paying attention, driving while drunk or high.

These are intentional, negligent acts, not accidents.

Tell that to the Gardai...
1_garda-gardai-car-jeep-vehicle-stock-generic-accident-sign-060417.jpg

s1ippy · 27-09-2020 11:29am

The drivers responsible in these cases did something by mistake, but they are still at fault.

If something is termed an "accident" it's implicit that there was nothing further that could have been done to avoid it. The blame is lifted from the perpetrator with that phraseology.

Drivers should pay an extremely severe penalty for taking a life. They should spend several years in jail to reflect the years they have taken from someone else, and so that the family can be satisfied that justice is served and there is a deterrent to drivers who may be similarly careless. It's unfortunate, but it seems that actual tangible punishments are the only thing that will result in selfish sociopaths in metal casing exercising consideration for squishy road users.

If that van driver felt genuine remorse for the loss of life and not just "shock" that his livelihood will probably be impacted because he caused a fatal crash, he would be all over the airwaves telling people he is sincerely sorry for causing the grief of that family with his reckless actions. Why don't we see statements of this nature every day when cúnts kill people with their vehicles? Why are there so many hit and runs??

Could it be because people are only interested in themselves and don't actually give a sh!t about taking a life, and know they'll get away with it because vehicles just "cause accidents" as a matter of fact.

AllForIt · 27-09-2020 11:31am

This reminds me of an incident that occurred to me in Dublin some years ago. I was crossing the road in a residential area. I waited for a car to pass coming from my left; when it passed I proceeded to cross. The car then pulled up to the curb on the side as I was crossing to and started reversing almost hitting me, I had to jump out of the way. The driver of the car rolled down the window and started blinding me out of it. How the eff was I supposed to know what the drivers intentions were once it had passed me. The attitude of some drivers is something else.

Slowyourrole · 27-09-2020 11:33am

s1ippy wrote: »

I feel like it's at least the third time this week I've read that somebody who took somebody else's life with their careless driving is being "treated for shock" at the scene.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-75-dies-after-being-hit-by-van-in-co-cork-1.4365623

A pedestrian is dead because someone dropping a child off at football thought nothing of lashing their van around the car park without due consideration for those around them. The sympathy I have for the deceased man's family vastly outweighs that which I have for the "shocked" van driver. His carelessness caused the entire issue.

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/2020/09/26/gardai-believe-man-may-have-died-in-traffic-collision-while-riding-electric-scooter-on-slane-navan-road/

Hit and runs are also ten a penny lately. If someone I knew ever confided in me that they were responsible for murdering somebody on the road and fleeing the scene, I would straight away report them no matter who they were to me. Scum.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/576277/limerick-school-shows-its-love-for-pupil-injured-in-road-collision.html

https://www.thejournal.ie/man-dies-crash-co-mayo-5214360-Sep2020/

There are more injuries and fatal crashes just from today's news. Two more young people injured by pricks on the road, one now dead.

Why don't people wake the hell up and drive with consideration for those around them. Then they wouldn't be so shocked because they wouldn't end up killing someone.

Just so you are aware, suffering from shock is not the same as being "shocked". Shock is a life threatening medical condition.

The legislation around hit and runs needs updating. It should be an arrestable offence with a power of detention so that less serious incidents can be investigated as efficiently as fatal ones with a higher punishment too.

mrsdewinter · 27-09-2020 11:41am

s1ippy wrote: »

If that van driver felt genuine remorse for the loss of life and not just "shock" that his livelihood will probably be impacted because he caused a fatal crash, he would be all over the airwaves telling people he is sincerely sorry for causing the grief of that family with his reckless actions. Why don't we see statements of this nature every day when cúnts kill people with their vehicles? Why are there so many hit and runs??

Could it be because people are only interested in themselves and don't actually give a sh!t about taking a life, and know they'll get away with it because vehicles just "cause accidents" as a matter of fact.

Ah, for God's sake. It's less than 24 hours since the driver was involved in an incident that will never leave him. He'll be reliving the events of yesterday for the rest of his life.

It's good to raise the issue of road safety but could you have the grace to remember that each and every one of us could find ourselves at the heart of a tragedy that we certainly didn't set out to cause.

tommythecat · 27-09-2020 11:46am

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Ah, for God's sake. It's less than 24 hours since the driver was involved in an incident that will never leave him. He'll be reliving the events of yesterday for the rest of his life.

It's good to raise the issue of road safety but could you have the grace to remember that each and every one of us could find ourselves at the heart of a tragedy that we certainly didn't set out to cause.

Yes but it's far more likely to happen to some than others. The amount of aggressive drivers out there is shocking. Zero consideration for anyone but themselves.

s1ippy · 27-09-2020 11:49am

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Just so you are aware, suffering from shock is not the same as being "shocked". Shock is a life threatening medical condition.

I do understand that. Sorry, I was just angered that the perpetrator of a crime be painted as somebody to have sympathy for. I do understand the medical aspect of it. People go into shock (and much worse) when informed of a bereavement too though. That's not reported in these articles.

ED E wrote: »

This post exemplifies why White Van Men™ are cnuts.

Vans and Audis. I was cycling yesterday and black Audi got impatient with me outside a busy playground where there were traffic calming inlets on the footpath to slow down cars. I was just about to go on the footpath to let him by when he squeezed past me in the narrow part of the road. It nearly knocked me from the bike having to lean to avoid him and the car behind stopped to check if I was OK and ask if I wanted the dashcam footage.

I was carrying a heavy box across the road in a housing estate last weekend and I had a green man signaling I could go. I was about a quarter of the way across and a dark silver Audi came over the crest of the hill doing about 60, hopped the speed ramp with a painful crunch and took the flashing orange to mean that he was going to continue driving at pace through the lights even though there was someone on the crossing. I could see he wasn't slowing so I considered dropping the box and jumping back the other way but in the split second I determined my best option was to lunge forward as fast as possible. His tyre clipped the back of my shoe and I dropped the box. He beeped at me after he was through the lights and up the road.

Thelonious Monk · 27-09-2020 11:50am

It is very strange though how it's so normalised. Even the Deliveroo guy who was mown down a few weeks ago, 4 kids ran away from the car in question and now we hear nothing about it and there have been no arrests. Another person died last night in a crash and there are 3 comments on the Journal, 2 RIPs and a "Thoughts and prayers". It's a bit like gun deaths in USA, people just accept them.

RobbieMD · 27-09-2020 12:07pm

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Just so you are aware, suffering from shock is not the same as being "shocked". Shock is a life threatening medical condition.

The legislation around hit and runs needs updating. It should be an arrestable offence with a power of detention so that less serious incidents can be investigated as efficiently as fatal ones with a higher punishment too.

The legislation was updated in 2014. If injury is caused then the driver can be arrested and detained.

Slowyourrole · 27-09-2020 12:42pm

RobbieMD wrote: »

The legislation was updated in 2014. If injury is caused then the driver can be arrested and detained.

Is that the legislation around dangerous driving?

RobbieMD · 27-09-2020 12:52pm

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Is that the legislation around dangerous driving?

No the 1961 act was amended in 2014 and the offence of hit and run was expanded upon. It’s an arrestable offence on its own merits without involving the specific offence of Section 53 dangerous driving.

Ned Led Zeppo · 27-09-2020 12:58pm

What about all the eighty and ninety year old drivers that are still around.
Go to any Super Value shops on a Friday, and see these drivers that can barely
get out of their cars never mind get back in, some even request passers by to help
them get out and get back in. It beggars belief.

Podge_irl · 27-09-2020 12:59pm

mrsdewinter wrote: »

It's good to raise the issue of road safety but could you have the grace to remember that each and every one of us could find ourselves at the heart of a tragedy that we certainly didn't set out to cause.

And it is this sentiment that sees drivers involved in fatal collisions repeatedly escape any serious punishment. It's a joke.

Jim Gazebo · 27-09-2020 1:00pm

RobAMerc wrote: »

Seriously ? I know you are upset and saddened by the news of the death of your friend - but I think you are looking to paint a picture here that may not exist, and your choice of language does nothing for the people remaining - their lives have been impacted horrendously by the tragic events too.

No where does it say the driver was lashing around or driving carelessly and you using that language does nothing but show your own emotional impact. It doesn't mean its true and is very unfair to the driver.
Despite what you hear Accidents do happen !

Absolutely agree. This is heartbreaking for everyone involved, not many, if anyone, out there that reverses a van hoping to hit someone... So sad for all involved.

Strumms · 27-09-2020 1:25pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It has just been normalised that people die at the hands of motorised vehicles every couple of days. Can you imagine some new machine that people started using made 3 people's heads explode a week or something? Because that's what's happening really.

I agree. It has been normalized.

I’ve also said it before in other threads. The actual quality of driving, or the lack of it, especially as pertains to having care and consideration to and for your fellow motorist and pedestrians as well as the rules of the road has plummeted to depths way beyond and below those I’ve seen before.

The observance of stop signs, traffic lights, right of way in particular, parking (on and at corners in particular too) are an ever seemingly optional consideration for many drivers.

More then ever I’m coming to junctions, recently in Finglas, back of the airport Beaumont and Whitehall where there are flowers, cards, jerseys pinned to a fence or other fixture in tribute to somebody who lost their life in a road traffic incident. Four road fatality incidents in months in about four square kilometers.

I’m using the word ‘incident’ as opposed to ‘accident’ because all be it a motorist isn’t going out of their way to kill or injure anybody, if they partake in standards of driving that can and do endanger other road users, that’s not an accident, the incident is a result of behavior, standards and a lack of care towards others.

amadangomor · 27-09-2020 1:40pm

It's the inappropriate speed that I don't get. Like flying into a car park braking at the last minute to stop where they are parking.

Having young children this annoys the fk out of me. Car parks are full of pedestrians getting in and out of cars, small children who are hard to see etc.

In my estate there can be dozens of children out playing and you know how unpredictable they can be. Most people crawl but you still get eejits belting it, even doing a rodeo over the speed bumps. Should be an IQ test for the driving licence.

Andrewf20 · 27-09-2020 1:54pm

The situation is a result of a human trait called complacency. Complacency in drivers, pedestrians and cyclists. I've seen it all - speeding drivers in housing estates, cyclists at night with no lights and pedestrians running across dual carriage ways.

Its unfortunate but unlikely to ever be erradicated.

Thelonious Monk · 27-09-2020 1:57pm

How did you see the invisible cyclists if they had no lights?

Andrewf20 · 27-09-2020 2:01pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

How did you see the invisible cyclists if they had no lights?

Street lights.

Thelonious Monk · 27-09-2020 2:02pm

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Street lights.

Yeah so you could still see them. Anyway i can't remember the last time a cyclist was killed at night in Ireland, it's always during the day.

Strumms · 27-09-2020 2:18pm

Andrewf20 wrote: »

The situation is a result of a human trait called complacency. Complacency in drivers, pedestrians and cyclists. I've seen it all - speeding drivers in housing estates, cyclists at night with no lights and pedestrians running across dual carriage ways.

Its unfortunate but unlikely to ever be erradicated.

Complacency can not be eradicated true but it can be limited if there is a deterrent.

The only way to fight complacency is to deter it.

At the moment for example the punishment breaking red lights carries 3 penalty points and fine of up to €120... that’s not much of a deterrent. It’s not ANY deterrent at all in fact.

Points ok ‘maybe’ appropriate but the fine is the average price out of a night out in town with drinks, taxis, food.... the fine is eminently affordable therefore NOT any sort of deterrent. The law and the punishment it provides needs to be a deterrent for it to succeed. Therefore keeping the points but jacking up the fine to 350 euros is what I’d want to see happening.

Wishbone Ash · 27-09-2020 3:07pm

mrsdewinter wrote: »

... but could you have the grace to remember that each and every one of us could find ourselves at the heart of a tragedy that we certainly didn't set out to cause.

No one is saying that any road users set out to cause a tragedy. However, some drivers do cause injury or death by their dangerous, aggressive and illegal behavior.

I cycle with a club in a group a few times weekly. We cycle two abreast which is perfectly legal but some motorists seem to have a problem with other road users behaving legally. I've never experienced a club ride where we didn't have at least one aggressive and dangerous overtaking manoeuvre - it sometimes occurs several times during a ride. Van drivers and 4x4 drivers being the worst offenders - often blaring their horn as the make a 'punishment' pass on a continuous white line approaching a bend.

I'm sure these drivers don't set out to cause any deaths but would you have sympathy for them after a fatal accident? Loss of licence for life should be a minimum consequence.

Spook_ie · 27-09-2020 3:19pm

Strumms wrote: »

Complacency can not be eradicated true but it can be limited if there is a deterrent.

The only way to fight complacency is to deter it.

At the moment for example the punishment breaking red lights carries 3 penalty points and fine of up to €120... that’s not much of a deterrent. It’s not ANY deterrent at all in fact.

Points ok ‘maybe’ appropriate but the fine is the average price out of a night out in town with drinks, taxis, food.... the fine is eminently affordable therefore NOT any sort of deterrent. The law and the punishment it provides needs to be a deterrent for it to succeed. Therefore keeping the points but jacking up the fine to 350 euros is what I’d want to see happening.

But where do you stop, €350 is eminently affordable by some and legislation doesn't allow for FCPNs to be charged at different rates based on ability to pay, so you'd need to clog up the courts system with RLJs and other offences

magicbastarder · 27-09-2020 3:22pm

i don't think there should be a fine. instead, the vehicle should be confiscated within one week of the FCPN being issued, for the number of days equivalent to the points issued. so in the above scenario, the vehicle is impounded for three days.

FintanMcluskey · 27-09-2020 3:31pm

I think also pedestrians need to take personal responsibility, walking on a country road with no hard shoulder and a lack of high visibility clothing is irresponsible.

Also, while growing up on a farm, I was thought that the driver of any vehicle must see you at all times, dont walk accross the path of a reversing vehicle under any circumstances. The pedestrian was responsible for their own safety

I get the impression from comments here the driver has the responsibility for the pedestrians safety

Strumms · 27-09-2020 3:33pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't think there should be a fine. instead, the vehicle should be confiscated within one week of the FCPN being issued, for the number of days equivalent to the points issued. so in the above scenario, the vehicle is impounded for three days.

I think it could work in practice as the deterrent but the cost to launch such a scheme, implement it and operate it would be colossal. The logistical efforts required would be huge on an ongoing basis. You’d need access to more parking, more tow trucks the massive associated costs of those, huge manpower, tow team, admin, security, office costs, just massively cost prohibitive... the likelihood is that would cost many more millions than the simple admin costs involved in saying to somebody via letter... “incident happened xxxxx..pay this big fine, here are your points, don’t do it again, see ... to appeal”...

magicbastarder · 27-09-2020 3:35pm

well, if we did it now, and policed it, and the rate of law breaking was as it is now, half the vehicles in the country would end up being impounded.
but i suspect if successfully implemented (and that's a challenge, i'll make no argument there), the rate of RLJing, etc., would absolutely plummet.

for someone getting caught speeding once or twice, the points are an abstraction (as long as they remain under the threshold the insurance companies are interested in) and the fine is probably the cost of a night out - in normal times - for many people, so i don't see the current system as much of a deterrent.

Fatal Collisions

Comments