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Immigrants Teacher course

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  • 14-11-2018 12:32pm
    #1
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,412 ✭✭✭✭


    https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2018/1114/1010753-immigrant-teachers/

    I find this bizarre. You are either qualified or you are not according to the TC (lets take the base fact as it is). So what is this course going to achieve?

    I am curious about the line suggesting that because not everyone in our schools is white irish, then the teachers shouldn't be either.

    What do ye think?


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    #2
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,131 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I think the more diversity in teaching the better, but I have personally been involved with a Polish teacher trying to get TC recognition and it was comical. Fluent in three languages, an author of a textbook, fifteen years teaching experience, two Ph. D.s from one of the best universities in Europe and that shower treating her like she had printed them off herself.


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    #3
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Call me cynical, but this is a case of hoping that immigrants would be more willing to work for the lower pay scales?


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    #4
    Redneck Culchie
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 378 ✭✭Redneck Culchie


    Just seen 2 female immigrants talking about this on the RTE news report about how they were refused on many applications. I really don't think their standard of English was good enough to teach. Hard to fully judge that on a short report, maybe their accents were too strong. But at least one appeared to have broken English. I don't believe that is good enough to teach in schools.

    The highlighting of "White" also set alarm bells for me. Most immigrants in this country are White ie Eastern Europeans? Seems like the usual nonsense you get from diversity officer types.


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    #5
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,227 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Hire teachers based on abilities. Not to fit some diversity tick the box.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #6
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    I would be more concerned about the lack of diversity in socioeconomic backgrounds than in nationalities.


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    #7
    solerina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭solerina


    We have a shortage of teachers because so many of our own teachers have been forced to go abroad UK, Dubai etc to get jobs, let them come home and get jobs first !!

    I have no issue with foreign people becoming teachers in Irish schools but this makes it seem like special treatment for them while we have thousands who were forced to go abroad.


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    #8
    sullivlo
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭sullivlo


    spurious wrote: »
    I think the more diversity in teaching the better, but I have personally been involved with a Polish teacher trying to get TC recognition and it was comical. Fluent in three languages, an author of a textbook, fifteen years teaching experience, two Ph. D.s from one of the best universities in Europe and that shower treating her like she had printed them off herself.
    I have a PhD in protein chemistry, I worked as a research scientist as a chemist doing chemistry. I taught chemistry at third level. I worked on and operated the largest NMR machine in the island of Ireland. The teaching council don’t want to recognise my qualification so Chemistry is not on my list of subjects. The TC are idiots.

    But I do know of people from out foreign who are qualified teachers who can’t get registered with TC. Even people coming from the UK need to do a conversion course on the history of the Irish education system (including hedge schools - so so relevant).


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    #9
    Blaizes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Blaizes


    solerina wrote: »
    We have a shortage of teachers because so many of our own teachers have been forced to go abroad UK, Dubai etc to get jobs, let them come home and get jobs first !!

    I have no issue with foreign people becoming teachers in Irish schools but this makes it seem like special treatment for them while we have thousands who were forced to go abroad.
    Wasn't there something a little while back about Skype interviewing Irish teachers abroad to try and get them to come home and teach here is that idea gone now? I can't keep up


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    #10
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Blaizes wrote: »
    Wasn't there something a little while back about Skype interviewing Irish teachers abroad to try and get them to come home and teach here is that idea gone now? I can't keep up

    The Skype thing is hilarious . It’s trying to deflect from the reason so many teachers have left the country . In any case , Skype interviews have been happening for a while now, hardly the magic solution.


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    #11
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    sullivlo wrote: »
    I have a PhD in protein chemistry, I worked as a research scientist as a chemist doing chemistry. I taught chemistry at third level. I worked on and operated the largest NMR machine in the island of Ireland. The teaching council don’t want to recognise my qualification so Chemistry is not on my list of subjects. The TC are idiots.

    But I do know of people from out foreign who are qualified teachers who can’t get registered with TC. Even people coming from the UK need to do a conversion course on the history of the Irish education system (including hedge schools - so so relevant).

    the history of Irish education (if studied appropriately) should be contextualized in terms of the abdication of education by state to religious since 1850. So very relevant in terms of ETB vs Voluntary/private (and the shades of grey in between).
    Religious ethos is still kind of important today... put it like this, I know people who won't get promotion because they don't tick the religious ethos box. Also chances of being an openly atheist primary teacher can limit their progression in some cases.

    And out of the above also comes the subtle difference of the state only having to provide 'for' education as opposed to provide education which tangles up rights and responsibilities... you may recall the case about 5 years ago of an abuse survivor trying to get the state to face up to their abdication of responsibility, they just claimed they only had to provide money and it was the religious order who were responsible for the abuse etc.

    Then in terms of teacher contracts do you answer to the school (your employer) or the state (your paymaster).

    Tis all because of history. And basically there's just an essay to learn off so that's not too much to ask.

    But yes, the teaching council are a curse on potentially good quality teachers.


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    #12
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Redneck Culchie wrote: »
    Just seen 2 female immigrants talking about this on the RTE news report about how they were refused on many applications. I really don't think their standard of English was good enough to teach. Hard to fully judge that on a short report, maybe their accents were too strong. But at least one appeared to have broken English. I don't believe that is good enough to teach in schools.

    The highlighting of "White" also set alarm bells for me. Most immigrants in this country are White ie Eastern Europeans? Seems like the usual nonsense you get from diversity officer types.

    Your mistaking dialect and accent with language comprehension. I know of one teacher who studied English abroad to masters level but had a strong enough accent, in the end she got teaching council recognition after doing the add ons.... but always ended up being thrown into MFL to teach her native language!

    BTW do you know what the minimum requirements are for English in the LC to teach primary? Is that 'good enough to teach in schools' even for native Irish people? (Acknowledging that teachers might have way above this min requirement too)


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    #13
    Redneck Culchie
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 378 ✭✭Redneck Culchie


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    Your mistaking dialect and accent with language comprehension. I know of one teacher who studied English abroad to masters level but had a strong enough accent, in the end she got teaching council recognition after doing the add ons.... but always ended up being thrown into MFL to teach her native language!

    BTW do you know what the minimum requirements are for English in the LC to teach primary? Is that 'good enough to teach in schools' even for native Irish people? (Acknowledging that teachers might have way above this min requirement too)
    I see your point. My impression was I would struggle to understand them. I had a similar issue in college with some foreign lecturers. I'm certain their English comprehension was good enough however, they had to correct papers.

    Not sure of teaching requirements tbh. I'm not a teacher myself .


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    #14
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Redneck Culchie wrote: »
    I see your point. My impression was I would struggle to understand them. I had a similar issue in college with some foreign lecturers. I'm certain their English comprehension was good enough however, they had to correct papers.

    Not sure of teaching requirements tbh. I'm not a teacher myself .

    Ya sorry I should have said.
    The minimum requirement for English in Ireland is a Leaving Cert H7. Which means you could scrape 30% and be eligible. Maths too!... but Irish is H5 50%

    https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2017-Press-Releases/PR17-10-03.html

    Exposing students to a foreign accent is a good thing... probably tricky at the start though.


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    #15
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    Ya sorry I should have said.
    The minimum requirement for English in Ireland is a Leaving Cert H7. Which means you could scrape 30% and be eligible. Maths too!... but Irish is H5 50%

    Wasn't Irish changed to a minimum grade in honours recently I believe H3 is the new minimum requirement
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #16
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,500 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Gatling wrote: »
    Wasn't Irish changed to a minimum grade in honours recently I believe H3 is the new minimum requirement

    untitled2.jpg


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