County Councillors - what's the point?

Scofflaw · 14-05-2014 3:29am #1

I can understand the point of the European elections. I actually do care about things like climate change targets, levels of agricultural subsidies, trade agreements, intellectual property, digital development, and so on.

However, I cannot for the life of me really understand the importance given to the local elections though. Successive Irish governments have stripped county councils of their taxing powers, their decision-making powers, their connection with local areas, and their very existence, more or less at whim, and with a persistence and attention to detail they bring to few other things. Even the much-vaunted ending of the "dual mandate" of TD and Councillor served primarily to destroy any council influence in the Dáil.

An excellent Bock the Robber blog post summarises the situation for me:

If a candidate’s election literature says they’re against property tax, tear it up and throw it out. Councils have no function in regard to taxation and no influence. Likewise, if a candidate is against water charges, congratulate them and then ask them what that has to do with being a councillor, since it’s outside the scope of their brief. They’re scamming you.

A law-and-order councillor is a useless councillor since they have no role in that area. A pro-farmer councillor is a waste of space, since agriculture is not one of the prescribed areas for which local authorities have responsibility. A councillor who has a position on Irish policy abroad is a bull****ter who needs to be shown the door. A councillor who claims to be pro-sport is a chancer. A councillor who promises to work for better healthcare is a liar. A councillor who wants to shorten the dole queues needs to be sacked. A councillor who tells you he’s working for education or the local economy is just looking for a free junket to China.

Councillors have no role in any of these things, or for that matter in food safety, immigration, mortgage resolution, curbing prostitution, teenage drunkenness or tv licences.

Kindly, he provides a handy checklist:

Powers of local councillors ||
||
Individual powers |NONE |
||
Collective powers |Planning policy |YES
|Planning decisions |NO
|Sanitation policy |YES
|Sanitation decisions |NO
|Roads policy |YES
|Selecting roadworks |NO
|Motorways |NO
|Employment |NO
|Policing |NO
|Housing policy |YES
|Allocation of housing |NO
|Selecting houses for repair |NO
|Selecting houses for improvement |NO
|Water supply |NO
|Water charges |NO
|Property tax |NO
|Education |NO
|Health |NO
|Agriculture |NO
|Foreign affairs |NO
|Social welfare |NO
|Sport |NO
|Youth work |NO

In brief - housing policy, sanitation policy, planning policy, and roads policy. General guidelines only. No detailed decision-making. They can say "we should aim to develop the town out this way", and the detail of how that happens is then decided by the professional staff.

I'm not saying the power to rezone isn't important - and lucrative - but how many councillors are actually standing on the basis of their policy in these areas? How much of the excitement around the local elections revolves around planning?

[EDIT]And apparently the (collective) power to vary LPT rates by +/-15% from January 1st next year (thank Phoebas).[/EDIT]

cordially,
Scofflaw

LuckyLloyd · 14-05-2014 7:42am

Heh, if there is a counter argument there I'm not seeing it!! The actual purpose of the local elections in the state is as an opportunity for parties to blood future national level politicians and for the nation to register an official opinion poll. It's a pointless rite of passage.

comongethappy · 14-05-2014 9:40am

Governance in Ireland is up there as one of the most centralised.

Councillors are powerless, functions being carried out by the unelected county manager.

I wonder would giving councillors much greater powers increase results?

Sierra Oscar · 14-05-2014 10:15am

I would agree that local government could be strengthened hugely. It badly needs to be and in fairness to the current government they are implementing some level of local government reform.

However you are forgetting the one thing that councilors do that takes up most of their time: making representations on behalf of constituents. Councillors act as a link between the council and constituents to get many different issues resolved. There should be much more focus on policy development and allowing councilors to play a greater role in shaping the direction that the council will take, but I would say that the representation side of things is a good reason as to why we elect councilors?

If I had my way I would ban TD's / Senators from making representations to councils on behalf of constituents regarding local issues. That is a councilors job and maybe such a measure would encourage minds in the Oireachtas to focus on the big picture more often.

Mr.Micro · 14-05-2014 12:40pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

I can understand the point of the European elections. I actually do care about things like climate change targets, levels of agricultural subsidies, trade agreements, intellectual property, digital development, and so on.

However, I cannot for the life of me really understand the importance given to the local elections though. Successive Irish governments have stripped county councils of their taxing powers, their decision-making powers, their connection with local areas, and their very existence, more or less at whim, and with a persistence and attention to detail they bring to few other things. Even the much-vaunted ending of the "dual mandate" of TD and Councillor served primarily to destroy any council influence in the Dáil.

An excellent Bock the Robber blog post summarises the situation for me:

Kindly, he provides a handy checklist:

Powers of local councillors ||
||
Individual powers |NONE |
||
Collective powers |Planning policy |YES
|Planning decisions |NO
|Sanitation policy |YES
|Sanitation decisions |NO
|Roads policy |YES
|Selecting roadworks |NO
|Motorways |NO
|Employment |NO
|Policing |NO
|Housing policy |YES
|Allocation of housing |NO
|Selecting houses for repair |NO
|Selecting houses for improvement |NO
|Water supply |NO
|Water charges |NO
|Property tax |NO
|Education |NO
|Health |NO
|Agriculture |NO
|Foreign affairs |NO
|Social welfare |NO
|Sport |NO
|Youth work |NO

In brief - housing policy, sanitation policy, planning policy, and roads policy. General guidelines only. No detailed decision-making. They can say "we should aim to develop the town out this way", and the detail of how that happens is then decided by the professional staff.

I'm not saying the power to rezone isn't important - and lucrative - but how many councillors are actually standing on the basis of their policy in these areas? How much of the excitement around the local elections revolves around planning?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Here in this County some of those boxes can be ticked. Planning decisions.....yes, even if the planners object.
Selecting houses for repair.....yes
Allocation of housing....yes.

Get a councillor on your side and it's as good as done.

Godge · 14-05-2014 4:01pm

There are a few other areas that councillors as a collective have influence:

- Library services
- Zoning decision
- Recreation and Parks
- Local culture and arts

Candidates' views on these may be of importance to you. For example, if your local GAA/soccer/athletic club has difficulty getting pitches, your councillor is the man to talk to.

Mr.Micro · 14-05-2014 4:12pm

One job they all fail at, at least in this area, is getting potholes filled in. This year there is a bumper crop. I a sure the canvassers are nimbly avoiding them as they make their way to peoples doors

For Forks Sake · 14-05-2014 4:38pm

Someone would want to tell Michael Clarke down in Sligo some of the above.

An 'Independent' i.e ex-FF, candidate for the Co.Co, farmer, publican, auctioneer and defrauder of the state, his manifesto contains all of the below, and a lot more guff if you care to read subject yourself to the link:

Jobs, Incentives and Commercial rates
Workers, home owners and banks
Save our hospital and our services
Agriculture
Roads and Infrastructure
Irish water and water charges
Respect and support for our senior citizens
Garda stations and security
Free education for all
Social justice in an open and free economy

I'm fairly certain I saw mention of Airports on one of his posters at the weekend......:rolleyes:

Scofflaw · 14-05-2014 5:35pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I would agree that local government could be strengthened hugely. It badly needs to be and in fairness to the current government they are implementing some level of local government reform.

However you are forgetting the one thing that councilors do that takes up most of their time: making representations on behalf of constituents. Councillors act as a link between the council and constituents to get many different issues resolved. There should be much more focus on policy development and allowing councilors to play a greater role in shaping the direction that the council will take, but I would say that the representation side of things is a good reason as to why we elect councilors?

If I had my way I would ban TD's / Senators from making representations to councils on behalf of constituents regarding local issues. That is a councilors job and maybe such a measure would encourage minds in the Oireachtas to focus on the big picture more often.

When you say "making representations", you mean talking to the people who make the actual decisions on behalf of individuals? Pleading their case to have things done their way on a personal, one-to-one level with the professional staff?

Does anything strike you about that?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Phoebas · 14-05-2014 6:17pm

If a candidate’s election literature says they’re against property tax, tear it up and throw it out.

Don't they have the power to vary the rate of LPT by +/- 15%?

Scofflaw · 14-05-2014 7:10pm

Phoebas wrote: »

Don't they have the power to vary the rate of LPT by +/- 15%?

Not as far as I can see. All the literature and guides suggest a unitary system:

· The rate of LPT will be 0.18% for properties up to a market value of €1m.

· The Table available at Appendix 1 shows all the value bands, the mid-point of the bands, the amount of LPT to be paid in 2013 and the amount of LPT to be paid for the full year in 2014.

· Residential properties valued over €1m will be assessed at the actual value at 0.18% on the first €1m in value and 0.25% on the portion of the value above €1m (no banding will apply).

No suggestion there that the rate can be varied.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Phoebas · 14-05-2014 7:20pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

No suggestion there that the rate can be varied.

It was in Budget 2013
http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2013/Documents/Annex%20B%20-%20Local%20Property%20Tax.pdf

For the first 18 months (up to 31 December 2014) the national central tax rate will be
0.18% up to €1 million and 0.25% on excess value over €1 million.

• From 1 January 2015 local authorities will have discretion to vary the LPT rates by +/- 15% of the national central rate.

• The national central rate will not be increased for the lifetime of the Government.

Sierra Oscar · 15-05-2014 11:58am

Scofflaw wrote: »

When you say "making representations", you mean talking to the people who make the actual decisions on behalf of individuals? Pleading their case to have things done their way on a personal, one-to-one level with the professional staff?

Does anything strike you about that?

cordially,
Scofflaw

More so taking on board concerns that constituents have, advising them as to what action they should take to resolve a problem they have and to also relay their concerns to the relevant section / person in the council.

There are a lot of people who do not know who to contact in the council regarding a problem that they have. These people are more comfortable seeking advice and support from their elected representative first. Local representatives provide a pretty invaluable service to these people.

Lets not forget that not everyone is as into politics as you and I are. Not everyone knows off the top of their head who they should contact to get an issue examined, and often the person they think of first is the person that they elected to represent them (they are elected representatives afterall!). They might not necessarily know which way to turn to sort out an issue that they are trying to resolve.

It is more about relaying information rather than trying to influence decisions in some sort of negative way. Lets not assume the worst of all our representatives. There are a lot of representatives out there, from all parties and no party alike, doing their best to try and make sure that the concerns that their constituents have are at least being examined by the council. Most councilors would not dream of trying to inappropriately influence the decision of officials. Each council has its own channels for dealing with representations from councilors and there is a paper trail throughout the process. Obviously everyone wants a positive reply but we all know that won't always happen. What is important for people however is knowing that their issue was at least examined.

Of course you could argue that in an ideal world no representations would be required if the councils were 100% effective. I guess that is perhaps a debate for another time!

County Councillors - what's the point?

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