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Giving some of N.I. back to the Republic

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24567…13

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    #32
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »
    How do you mean??
    Anything far away from Dublin tends to get ignored; Donegal seems to get shag all funding.

    I think the UK gives NI £11bn a year, and the Republic also coughs up a few billion. I'm not sure what sort of impact removing the UK's funding would have on NI, but I don't it'd be well received.


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    #33
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    I'd love to take on those counties & in return in a show of good faith the Unionists can have Dublin, it's full of west-brits anyway so they should get on great together.


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    #34
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    tdv123 wrote: »
    I'd love to take on those counties & in return in a show of good faith the Unionists can have Dublin, it's full of west-brits anyway so they should get on great together.

    Haha that made me laugh but in all seriousness I have a big problem with us funding the North. Does anybody know how much in 2012 we sent up North?


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    #35
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    RoyalCelt wrote: »
    Haha that made me laugh but in all seriousness I have a big problem with us funding the North. Does anybody know how much in 2012 we sent up North?

    Tree fidy.


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    #36
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    the_syco wrote: »
    Anything far away from Dublin tends to get ignored; Donegal seems to get shag all funding.

    I think the UK gives NI £11bn a year, and the Republic also coughs up a few billion. I'm not sure what sort of impact removing the UK's funding would have on NI, but I don't it'd be well received.

    As far as I recall, Donegal gets the highest net funding per capita of all counties.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #37
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    RoyalCelt wrote: »
    Haha that made me laugh but in all seriousness I have a big problem with us funding the North. Does anybody know how much in 2012 we sent up North?

    Not anything like the funding NI gets from the UK, there are cross border groups set up that the Republic funds but I'd really doubt that they were above 500 million. And with the delays/cancellations/completions of infrastructure projects like the Narrow Water Bridge Capital expenditure has been reduced as well.

    Really even at the height of the Tiger years the Republic couldn't pay what the UK does to support NI, which is why I doubt you'd have a majority of Catholics jumping at joining the Republic, they would lose a lot (or the Republic would have to make spending adjustments that make the last few years look mild)


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    #38
    Dr.Tank Adams
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭Dr.Tank Adams


    Repartitioned was discussed in dept in the past, nothing came from it. I think they'd be even less willing to discuss it now for fear it would destroy the peace. The north is always going to be an "all or nothing" area I think, and the more years that go by the less likely it is the re-unification will happen. That's the really ironic thing I think, for all the rabble-rousing the Unionist community has been doing over the last 18 months, their position in the UK has arguably never been stronger.


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    #39
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    tdv123 wrote: »
    I'd love to take on those counties & in return in a show of good faith the Unionists can have Dublin, it's full of west-brits anyway so they should get on great together.
    So, how are the Culchies going to be able to afford living beyond their means when Dublin isn't bankrolling them any more?


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    #40
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    So, how are the Culchies going to be able to afford living beyond their means when Dublin isn't bankrolling them any more?

    Now don't be bringing issues like facts into kneejerk nonsense


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    #41
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    Aren't DUP only a majority in two counties now in the North?


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    #42
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    tdv123 wrote: »
    Aren't DUP only a majority in two counties now in the North?

    So, combined the Unionists are still ahead of Nationalists even more so if depending on how you view the Alliance party.


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    #43
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    So, how are the Culchies going to be able to afford living beyond their means when Dublin isn't bankrolling them any more?

    I don't think you see the potential in this. Instead of us having to with all the junkies in Dublin city (must be about 100,000 of them now) the British well have to deal with them.


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    #44
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    sparky42 wrote: »
    So, combined the Unionists are still ahead of Nationalists even more so if depending on how you view the Alliance party.

    Has that ever happened before? I know the Unionists are still ahead but it's getting a lot closer


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    #45
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    tdv123 wrote: »
    I don't think you see the potential in this. Instead of us having to with all the junkies in Dublin city (must be about 100,000 of them now) the British well have to deal with them.

    And the rest of the Republic runs out of money, like it or not the Greater Dublin area is the core economic area.


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    #46
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    tdv123 wrote: »
    Has that ever happened before? I know the Unionists are still ahead but it's getting a lot closer

    Since the DUP was the smaller party to the UUP before the Good Friday Agreement (1998 30 seats to 24), I'm not surprised things change. Things might be getting closer but both Alliance and the new NI21 aren't really Unionist or Nationalist so you have 7 (possibly 2 or more for NI21 next time) and 1 Green.


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    #47
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    tdv123 wrote: »
    I don't think you see the potential in this. Instead of us having to with all the junkies in Dublin city (must be about 100,000 of them now) the British well have to deal with them.
    Crime-wise it wouldn't make a huge difference as Limerick would still remain.

    Unless you could convince them to relocate to Dublin just before such a handover, which isn't so far fetched - most Limerick homes have wheels, after all.


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    #48
    Sheldons Brain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Sheldons Brain


    Is this thread in a serious forum or in After Hours? From its ridiculous title to the type of irrelevant predjudice in the previous post, it sets a low standard even for the Politics forum.

    Northern Ireland needs to build a proper future for itself as it moves towards a nationalist majority, this requires real political work, not fantasy maps.


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    #49
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Sheldons Brain wrote: »
    Is this thread in a serious forum or in After Hours? From its ridiculous title to the type of irrelevant predjudice in the previous post, it sets a low standard even for the Politics forum.
    Funny how it didn't seem to bother you earlier in the thread when it was the Jackeens been made fun of.


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    #50
    Cork boy 55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Cork boy 55


    Going back on topic for a moment, here's a similar map based on the 2011 census and showing Council areas as opposed to individual wards within those areas but the difference between it and the map on page one is profound.

    Districts_of_Northern_Ireland_by_strength_of_religious_majority_2011.png

    Description
    Map of districts of Northern Ireland color coded to show the predominant religious denomination. Stronger green indicates a higher proportion of Catholics. Stronger orange indicates a higher proportion of Protestants. Percentages show the difference between the proportion of Catholics and the proportion of Protestants. Data from 2011 census

    Date 16 February 2013
    Source Based on File Districts of Northern Ireland by Catholic percentage 2011.png
    Author User DrKiernan


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    #51
    Cork boy 55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Cork boy 55


    Initial Output Area maps of Northern Ireland Census 2011

    The latest tranche of Census 2011 results for Northern Ireland were released yesterday. They provide information of demography, identity, health, housing, education, labour markets, and travel and migration at a variety of geographic scales: 18 Assembly Areas, 26 Local Government Areas, 582 electoral wards, 890 Super Output Areas, and 4,537 Small Areas.


    http://irelandafternama.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/initial-output-area-maps-of-northern-ireland-census-2011/


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    #52
    Sheldons Brain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Sheldons Brain


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Funny how it didn't seem to bother you earlier in the thread when it was the Jackeens been made fun of.

    I don't have time to monitor every thread for bovine excreta. But the fact that you point out that there is other irrelevant nonsense earlier in the thread supports my observation that this is a thread better suited to After Hours.

    Anyhow here's a video to pass the time
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cr70gaJmeg


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    #53
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Mod:

    Ok, that's enough. Stick to the topic and less of the juvenile jackeen, Limerick and culchie stuff, thank you.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #54
    GaelMise
    Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭GaelMise


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Lol, sixth largest economy in the world and predicted to grow faster than any other major western economy. Recently voted as having global influence and expected to become the largest European economy over the next fifteen years.

    let's face reality shall we, NI ain't going anywhere in the foreseeable future.

    Predicted by who? The same clowns that didnt see the economic crash comming? Don't think I would be taking much that economists have to say abut what will happen in the future any more seriously than the lads predicting the end of the world in Time Square.


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    #55
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    GaelMise wrote: »
    Predicted by who? The same clowns that didnt see the economic crash comming? Don't think I would be taking much that economists have to say abut what will happen in the future any more seriously than the lads predicting the end of the world in Time Square.

    Either way the UK economy will always be vastly larger than the Republics and NI will always face reductions if there was unification (along with the South facing massive increases in tax burdens)


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    #56
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Either way the UK economy will always be vastly larger than the Republics and NI will always face reductions if there was unification (along with the South facing massive increases in tax burdens)

    This presupposes that NI is inevitably significantly poorer than Britain/ROI and so in need of all of these subsidies. There is no intrinsic reason why this should be case, you would expect that Belfast/East NI would be much the same level of prosperity as the rest of Ireland and that perhaps West Tyrone/Fermanagh might be like Roscommon.


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    #57
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    ardmacha wrote: »
    This presupposes that NI is inevitably significantly poorer than Britain/ROI and so in need of all of these subsidies. There is no intrinsic reason why this should be case, you would expect that Belfast/East NI would be much the same level of prosperity as the rest of Ireland and that perhaps West Tyrone/Fermanagh might be like Roscommon.

    It's the public expenditure of Northern Ireland that's my cause for doubt, they have the same public service numbers for 1.8 million people as the Republic for 4.6 million, add in their NHS system and the domestic economy can never support that (with less than a million employed 1/3 public service). If they were a stand alone they would have had to gut their expenditure long before now, as it is their export industries/volumes are vastly smaller than the Republic with only a handful of companies making up the majority of those exports.

    To keep the services they have they would have to jack up their taxes massively compared to the Republic or introduce massive reforms and expenditure reductions.


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    #58
    Reekwind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    sparky42 wrote: »
    It's the public expenditure of Northern Ireland that's my cause for doubt, they have the same public service numbers for 1.8 million people as the Republic for 4.6 million...
    Which is, like the NE of England, a symptom of economic malaise. Public sector funds are essentially keeping an otherwise sick economy afloat. This scale of public funding would not be necessary if we posit a rise in prosperity to match the rest of Ireland.

    Either that or the Tories in Westminster will gut the public sector subsidies anyway


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    #59
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,880 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Reekwind wrote: »
    Which is, like the NE of England, a symptom of economic malaise. Public sector funds are essentially keeping an otherwise sick economy afloat. This scale of public funding would not be necessary if we posit a rise in prosperity to match the rest of Ireland.

    Either that or the Tories in Westminster will gut the public sector subsidies anyway

    The North would have had much more infrastructure investment up until the Tiger years, and areas like medical expenses would be much lower than the Republic, and yet it's economy has been shrinking more and more compared to the South. The North has always had one of if not the highest unemployment rate in the UK (100K+ right now), trying to pass that off as just malaise ignores the fact that even if it reached full economic employment they couldn't sustain it's own budget without reductions.

    In terms of reductions, the North is unstable enough, reducing the employment levels won't help that and London isn't going to increase that (oh and if tomorrow Dublin was in charge "gutting" would be a mild verb to use as there's no choice). But yes in trying to dress up unification as the solution to everything while ignoring the systemic and decades long issues in the North is just fine, I'm sure you'll be the first to volunteer to increase your taxes and reduce your services for the North.


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    #60
    gallag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭gallag


    Reekwind wrote: »
    Which is, like the NE of England, a symptom of economic malaise. Public sector funds are essentially keeping an otherwise sick economy afloat. This scale of public funding would not be necessary if we posit a rise in prosperity to match the rest of Ireland.

    Either that or the Tories in Westminster will gut the public sector subsidies anyway

    if we posit a rise in prosperity to match the rest of Ireland?
    I don't think N.Ireland is behind Ireland in terms of prosperity, don't be fooled by figures like GDP for Ireland, they include the profits multinational companies are just filtering through Ireland to avoid tax. I always think new car sales is a good way to compare economies, it's simple but it does show cash to spend without all the hard to gather figures like GDP, salary, taxes, health costs etc etc.


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    #61
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    gallag wrote: »
    if we posit a rise in prosperity to match the rest of Ireland?
    I don't think N.Ireland is behind Ireland in terms of prosperity, don't be fooled by figures like GDP for Ireland, they include the profits multinational companies are just filtering through Ireland to avoid tax. I always think new car sales is a good way to compare economies, it's simple but it does show cash to spend without all the hard to gather figures like GDP, salary, taxes, health costs etc etc.

    Whatever about multinationals your method is just ignoring the even more bloated public sector in Northern Ireland so any prosperity is somewhat artificial .

    Sooner or later no matter who is in charge that excess will have to be tackled.


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