The new Rotten Boroughs

SeanW · 29-10-2013 11:10pm

Whisko wrote: »

This guy is just full of hate.

Its his money, it's not the states money. It's part of his wage and he's entitled to spend it how he pleases.

Aye. There is nothing like a "Rotten borough" situation in Mings constituency, not within 10 orders of magnitude near anything resembling the kind of stuff that happened in the Unreformed House of Commons.

Ming is not the problem with Irish politics, not by a million miles, in addition it's his salary and he's choosing to put it to what he considers good use. If it's excessive, then it should be cut for ALL politicians, not just Ming.

MadsL · 30-10-2013 12:36am

Whisko wrote: »

This guy is just full of hate.

Its his money, it's not the states money. It's part of his wage and he's entitled to spend it how he pleases.

Nothing to do with hate. Dislike of manipulative tactics is all. If I went into my boss and said "Hey, I think you are a great boss, I'm only going to take half my salary in future" imagine his disappointment when I insist on being paid ALL my salary and announce I will be donating it my special projects.

It's the States money until he gets it, if he wants to announce he is "foregoing" his salary or whatever the term is - well, great, the taxpayer get 50% back, if the taxpayer doesn't get 50% back then stfu about 'sacrificing' your salary.

Some people are easily taken in I guess.

Crooked Jack · 30-10-2013 11:02am

MadsL wrote: »

How are you still not getting this? A TD very publically donates half his salary to a local school to national press coverage, in excess of the election spending limit, gets re-elected. Altruistic or crafty?

I dont know, I'd have to know that TD personally to make a judgment call on that, but you still have not proven in any way, shape or form that his constituency now constitutes a rotten borough or that he was buying votes.
Going by your logic any TD who does anything for his constituency is buying votes

MadsL wrote: »

Because TDs only "being paid 50% of a TDs salary" still get paid 100% of a TDs salary, whilst codding us that their personal slush fund of 50% of a TDs salary is in the public interest.

Rotten boroughs, buying votes, personal slush funds. Look at the language you're using, it's pretty clear that you have an agenda here.
Codding us? Who is codding us? Name one TD who is pretending they only get half their salary.

MadsL wrote: »

Are you claiming that these TDs do this for altruistic reasons? If so, why would they not simply return the cash to the State?

I dont know all the TDs personally. SF TDs do it because it is and has always been, party policy. As a left wing, socialist republican party who place a lot of emphasis on equality it's a policy that clearly demonstrates their intent and keeps their representatives grounded in the same reality as the people they are representing.
I've already pointed out several times that returning a few grand to the government isn't going to make any difference to the country's overall finances but it could very well make a big difference to the constituencies it's used in.
TDs in 'representing their constituency' shocker.

Crooked Jack · 30-10-2013 11:03am

MadsL wrote: »

It is. Ming slings cash over to any project HE decides is worth funding. No different to handing a wad of cash to an individual as far as I can see. No transparency involved.

Ming slings his cash over to any project he decides is worth funding. Where's the problem?

Crooked Jack · 30-10-2013 11:08am

MadsL wrote: »

Nothing to do with hate. Dislike of manipulative tactics is all. If I went into my boss and said "Hey, I think you are a great boss, I'm only going to take half my salary in future" imagine his disappointment when I insist on being paid ALL my salary and announce I will be donating it my special projects.

It's the States money until he gets it, if he wants to announce he is "foregoing" his salary or whatever the term is - well, great, the taxpayer get 50% back, if the taxpayer doesn't get 50% back then stfu about 'sacrificing' your salary.

Some people are easily taken in I guess.

But this is patently not the same situation. Nobody, not one TD, is claiming they are only paid half the salary. Not. A. One.

creedp · 30-10-2013 12:10pm

MadsL wrote: »

That's why we have audited election spending limits. To level the playing field.

Would you feel the same if a TD simply walked around town handing out cash in the weeks before election day?

If Ming wants to walk around town handing out part of his salary to what he perceives are good causes then that's his business. There is no issue with transparency here unless it can be shown he obtained the money from questionable sources such as a tent in Galway or from business people invited to his house for dinner and charged for the priviledge.

Javan · 30-10-2013 2:19pm

So what is your suggested solution OP?

Perhaps TDs should be barred from making charitable donations?

MadsL · 30-10-2013 6:55pm

Javan wrote: »

So what is your suggested solution OP?

Perhaps TDs should be barred from making charitable donations?

1. Bar TDs from making "I only take X of my salary" statements unless they do not actually receive the payment and it is returned to the State.
2. Require declaration of all donations to third parties.

MadsL · 30-10-2013 6:59pm

Crooked Jack wrote: »

But this is patently not the same situation. Nobody, not one TD, is claiming they are only paid half the salary. Not. A. One.

http://www.thejournal.ie/ming-flanagan-on-e9k-signpost-donation-im-keeping-my-election-promise-467425-May2012/

How do we know what Ming actually keeps?

Foghladh · 31-10-2013 12:42am

So basically the story is that a local politician has paid to have some signs erected. Out of his own salary. In some circles that might be seen as a good thing.

MadsL · 31-10-2013 12:54am

Foghladh wrote: »

So basically the story is that a local politician has paid to have some signs erected. Out of his own salary. In some circles that might be seen as a good thing.

Some TDs are announcing that they are not retaining their full salary, yet there is no transparency as they still get a full pay packet and one likes to keep his donations "quiet".

Foghladh · 31-10-2013 1:20am

MadsL wrote: »

Some TDs are announcing that they are not retaining their full salary, yet there is no transparency as they still get a full pay packet and one likes to keep his donations "quiet".

I kind of find it hard to feel offended by that if I'm honest. So you think your salary is too high and you plug it back into the local authority. Bully for you. Would I do it? Not a hope but then my job doesn't depend on the perception of my neighbours.

Would it be more acceptable to you if he had just pocketed the money? Surely the issue should be that if a few TD's feel that they can live on their salaries and still donate then the other 150 or so might also do so.

MadsL · 31-10-2013 1:22am

Foghladh wrote: »

I kind of find it hard to feel offended by that if I'm honest. So you think your salary is too high and you plug it back into the local authority. Bully for you. Would I do it? Not a hope but then my job doesn't depend on the perception of my neighbours.

Would it be more acceptable to you if he had just pocketed the money? Surely the issue should be that if a few TD's feel that they can live on their salaries and still donate then the other 150 or so might also do so.

As I have said my issue is not with the cut, nor the donations, it is the attendant publicity and lack of transparency. One-up-manship without any real evidence of your acts or deeds if you will.

expectationlost · 16-12-2013 8:08pm

50 community groups to benefit from Mayor's paycut http://thelooneyleft.blogspot.ie/2013/12/50-community-groups-to-benefit-from.html

My colleague, Deputy Mayor Eamon Tuffy, joined me in this and together we launched the "Mayors Fund" back in September. In total, we have allocated €10,000 for this fund.

http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=939&pid=27293

Applications will be considered by an independent panel selected by the Community Services Department

this is from his expesne not his salary i think

renegademaster · 16-12-2013 8:24pm

MadsL wrote: »

I propose we end once and for all the tactic of vote buying by declaring that you are not taking your TD's salary.

http://www.thejournal.ie/brendan-griffin-kerry-fybough-national-school-499297-Jun2012/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2157052/Sinn-F-barely-leave-wages-make-TD-Sandra-McLellan-says-partys-pay-policy-deter-candidates.html

I believe Luke Ming Flanagan 's 'schemes' are disingenuous in the extreme, he is professing to be overpaid, then rather than return the money to State coffers to pay for things, Flanagan gets to splash the cash - €9,000 to Boyle town council to buy 21 new road signs.

I consider this cheap, vote buying publicity, at the taxpayers expense. Cost to Ming €0 as he has already 'pledged' to only take 50% of his salary. It's a cheap and dubious tactic to buy re-election. I'm astonished that it is permitted under parliamentary rules.

Anyway, I believe this "My money, I'll decide where it is spent" attitude should not be permitted for public representatives as it distorts both democracy and transparency in public office. It is not the TD's money, it is public funds give in exchange for public service. If they are not required they should be returned to the Exchequer.

all credit to Ming he could have lied (like they all do to get in) and keot the money to be spent on trips to/fro Holland or on his wife and children but instead has pumped thousands into the local area like he promised. I am slowly hating the long haired hippy freak but your post is non-sense

MadsL · 17-12-2013 1:05am

renegademaster wrote: »

all credit to Ming he could have lied (like they all do to get in) and keot the money to be spent on trips to/fro Holland or on his wife and children but instead has pumped thousands into the local area like he promised. I am slowly hating the long haired hippy freak but your post is non-sense

I guess I just believe in transparency. I don't think that's nonsense.

expectationlost · 17-12-2013 1:14am

what do you mean by transparency madsl?
what's not transparent about it, not sure if that's the word, there's related word for it.

its more about if politicians want to do something they should do it through the powers they have rather then through their wallet

councillor, lets see what you do with your very limited powers impress me.

MadsL · 17-12-2013 1:19am

expectationlost wrote: »

what do you mean by transparency madsl?
what's not transparent about it, not sure if that's the word, there related word for it.

its more about if politicians want to do something they should do it through the powers they have rather then through their wallet

councillor, lets see what you do with your very limited powers impress me.

My point is that publicly paid public representatives should be transparent about what they do with money that is publicly provided to them if they are spending that money on public projects.

expectationlost · 17-12-2013 2:26am

MadsL wrote: »

My point is that publicly paid public representatives should be transparent about what they do with money that is publicly provided to them if they are spending that money on public projects.

oh yeah i was returning to the discussion, we were talking about ming paying for signage I forgot that he didnt say what he did with the rest of the money he said he'd use in the area.

dermot looney is going the self promotion route https://twitter.com/dlooney don't know if I prefer that.

expectationlost · 23-04-2014 1:40am

alot of local election candidates are doing this now saying they'll use their expenses for local community groups (which is not something they can do unilaterally) or even use their potential councillors salary for local groups from 20% to all of it!

to me this is tantamount to a bribe, vote for me and I'll give you money

Truman Burbank · 18-05-2014 8:11pm

expectationlost wrote: »

alot of local election candidates are doing this now saying they'll use their expenses for local community groups (which is not something they can do unilaterally) or even use their potential councillors salary for local groups from 20% to all of it!

to me this is tantamount to a bribe, vote for me and I'll give you money

Hmmmm, interesting. Just did a quick search there and he's been living off this (numerous articles about him; from him or him commenting in the comments). He's elected Mayor summer just gone, based on being Labour; September gives 7k + another 3k from the Deputy Mayor = 10k used for 50 local groups @€;200 per group = how many voters??, and within months of the aforementioned jumps ship with the elections coming up. Clever.

To me, this is tantamount to investing in his career, had have only gotten 1 year PT of an MBA with that 7k. Pretty good return if he's re-elected.

expectationlost · 18-05-2014 10:46pm

still now you have the government announcing all sorts of things before the election

RichardAnd · 19-05-2014 6:53am

If anyone wants to see a rotten borough in action, the following program illustrates it wonderfully.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xv6tp3_blackadder-season-03-episode-01-dish-and-dishonesty_shortfilms

Enjoy.

expectationlost · 19-05-2014 7:34pm

and we have pat gallagher whos says he gives something either 20k or 70k of pensions a year to chartiies and worth causes, individuals and families??? all potential voters, none of declared
http://www.patthecope.com/other-information.html
http://www.munsterfans.com/threads/30082-Ministerial-pensions-cost-%C2%808-8m-a-year

The new Rotten Boroughs

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