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Rail infrastructure in a potential United Ireland

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    #32
    Mearings
    Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Mearings


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    FG and Unionists were always anti rail. Peas in a pod.

    Don't get your hopes up.


    Todd Andrews was neither a member of Fine Gael or a Unionist.


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    #33
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    Was looking at train times between Stockholm and Malmo today. A distance of approx. 613km is covered in 4.5 hours (average speed of 136kph). These trains were bought in 1990, and have a top speed of 200km.

    They are now renovating them at a cost of €331million, to extend their life by an additional 20-25 years. They state that this means they avoid spending three times as much ordering new trains. Based on this, the trainsets will service their high speed lines for 50-55 years.

    Sweden's X2000 Pendelino Renovations

    Meanwhile here in Ireland, we suffer on with a service between the two largest cities that has an average "advertised" speed of 73kph. Jesus wept. The above example from Sweden shows the benefit and longevity of any investment we make in rail travel, along with countless environmental benefits. We need high moderate speed rail between all our cities on this island.


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    #34
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I assume that pendalinos are electric .so the cork / Dublin line would have to be electrified ... Each stop would add maybe 10 mins to the journey ,
    Level crossings would need to be gotten rid of too,

    What sort of realistic time do think could be achieved cork -dublin..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #35
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    If HSRail is anything like Engerlands £100bn++ nightmare project (with speeds now set to be dialed down), then wait and do nothing for 10yrs.

    In the meantime, do various feasability studies on Hyperloop (with much smaller footprint, and simply unbeatable speeds).
    Once both India & Dubai get it built and ironed out (<2030), simply replicate the project and headhunt their engineers.

    The logical route would be Bel - North Dub/Airport (800k catchment area, even before reaching Dublin proper).
    Then Central/SW Dub direct to Limerick for the next 1m+ .
    Finally Lim to both Gal & Cork.

    I.e. Follow the populaiton density, the NW will simply have to wait or get road upgrades.


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    #36
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    Markcheese wrote: »
    I assume that pendalinos are electric .so the cork / Dublin line would have to be electrified ... Each stop would add maybe 10 mins to the journey ,
    Level crossings would need to be gotten rid of too,

    What sort of realistic time do think could be achieved cork -dublin..

    As this thread is about infrastructure in a United Ireland, I was referring to the Belfast - Dublin Line. Of course, if we wanted Ten-T funding, it would make sense to consider it as one line from Belfast to Cork via Dublin.

    Cork's current advertised average speed is 108kph, with four intermediate stops, taking just under 2.5 hours. That is 67.5% of the maximum speed currently in place on the line, 160kph, though that speed isn't available on the whole line.

    If we were to electrify the Cork line, and implement all necessary improvements to get the operational speed up to 200kph along it's entire length, and applied the percentage realisation per above, we would see an average speed of 135kph. This is almost exactly the same as the Swedish service (136kph), and would mean a journey time of just under two hours.

    However, it reality I think we could shave off another 5-10mins, as acceleration and deceleration times would be much more rapid due to the electric set, and we would have 200kph for the length of the line, and not the hodge podge of 160kph and lower limits we currently have, and pendilinos would be able to maintain full speed in bends.

    If we apply the same percentage realisation against the Belfast line, journey times between the Capital and Belfast could be as quick as one hour 20 minutes.


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    #37
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    If I was doing a cork / Dublin / Belfast train it'd have to serve Dublin airport too.... And if there's ever a metro West / m50 orbital that too...all of which ups the number of stops ...

    Would it still end up one every hour? Or twice an hour ,and would that interrupt local traffic? ( The closer you get to Dublin the more commuter traffic there'd be )
    It'd be an expensive service to set up and run .... For a couple of trains an hour ... ( Still wouldn't be anything like hs2 in cost though )

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #38
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,824 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Mearings wrote: »
    Todd Andrews was neither a member of Fine Gael or a Unionist.

    *slow clap*

    Todd is dead. FG and Unionism are still with us.


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    #39
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    Markcheese wrote: »
    If I was doing a cork / Dublin / Belfast train it'd have to serve Dublin airport too.... And if there's ever a metro West / m50 orbital that too...all of which ups the number of stops ...

    Would it still end up one every hour? Or twice an hour ,and would that interrupt local traffic? ( The closer you get to Dublin the more commuter traffic there'd be )
    It'd be an expensive service to set up and run .... For a couple of trains an hour ... ( Still wouldn't be anything like hs2 in cost though )

    Fair enough regarding Dublin Airport, but an intercity service is just that, an intercity service, so to stop for every bit of urban infrastructure would be a bit much.

    Anyway, if we ever get moderate speed rail it will be merely an upgrade of our current lines. The best we can hope for a Dublin Airport link is MetroNorthLink being extended to Donabate for connection with Northern Line services.


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    #40
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Dublin airport is Ireland's airport though. 90% of Ireland's flights are to or from Dublin. As an island it's our gateway to the world. It certainly does justify an inter city station more than Limerick does.


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    #41
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Dublin airport is Ireland's airport though. 90% of Ireland's flights are to or from Dublin. As an island it's our gateway to the world. It certainly does justify an inter city station more than Limerick does.

    I definitely agree, and I personally would love to see high speed rail through services from Belfast to Cork, calling at Dublin Airport and Dublin City Centre but I'm just saying that I am resigned to the fact that we'd be pushing it just asking for a moderate upgrade to current lines, and an extension of MetroLink to Donatabate.


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    #42
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    I know, I know, I am always with the crayons, but, I got my crayons out again. In the New Decade, New Deal Agreement, talk of a Belfast to Cork flight was muted.

    Why not just upgrade the existing link between the Northern Line and Navan, and extend it to Portlaoise. You could then offer rail services to Cork, Galway and Limerick?


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    #43
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    ncounties wrote: »
    I know, I know, I am always with the crayons, but, I got my crayons out again. In the New Decade, New Deal Agreement, talk of a Belfast to Cork flight was muted.

    Why not just upgrade the existing link between the Northern Line and Navan, and extend it to Portlaoise. You could then offer rail services to Cork, Galway and Limerick?

    you can already run a Belfast-Cork service via Dublin. Building a cross-country line like that would be massive cost for a very niche service. Better to upgrade the Northern Line.


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    #44
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    ncounties wrote: »
    I definitely agree, and I personally would love to see high speed rail through services from Belfast to Cork, calling at Dublin Airport and Dublin City Centre but I'm just saying that I am resigned to the fact that we'd be pushing it just asking for a moderate upgrade to current lines, and an extension of MetroLink to Donatabate.

    The linespeed around Jerretspass is about 25mph...


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    #45
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    ncounties wrote: »
    As this thread is about infrastructure in a United Ireland, I was referring to the Belfast - Dublin Line. Of course, if we wanted Ten-T funding, it would make sense to consider it as one line from Belfast to Cork via Dublin.
    yep, makes sense.
    ncounties wrote: »
    Cork's current advertised average speed is 108kph, with four intermediate stops, taking just under 2.5 hours. That is 67.5% of the maximum speed currently in place on the line, 160kph, though that speed isn't available on the whole line.

    If we were to electrify the Cork line, and implement all necessary improvements to get the operational speed up to 200kph along it's entire length, and applied the percentage realisation per above, we would see an average speed of 135kph. This is almost exactly the same as the Swedish service (136kph), and would mean a journey time of just under two hours.

    However, it reality I think we could shave off another 5-10mins, as acceleration and deceleration times would be much more rapid due to the electric set, and we would have 200kph for the length of the line, and not the hodge podge of 160kph and lower limits we currently have, and pendilinos would be able to maintain full speed in bends.
    What's the top speed the 201 class locos can go at? if the line speed was 250kmh say?

    What's the time saving if the whole Dub Cork line was 160?
    200?

    What's the time saving electrifying the line? the bang for buck tails off fairly sharply
    ncounties wrote: »

    If we apply the same percentage realisation against the Belfast line, journey times between the Capital and Belfast could be as quick as one hour 20 minutes.


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    #46
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,990 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    i think i heard before that the 201 is capable of 105 to 110 mph but is limited to 100 mph.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #47
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    ncounties wrote: »
    Fair enough regarding Dublin Airport, but an intercity service is just that, an intercity service, so to stop for every bit of urban infrastructure would be a bit much.
    Would Lisburn and Newry still be cities in an UI?


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    #48
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Would Lisburn and Newry still be cities in an UI?

    What's your point?


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    #49
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    ncounties wrote: »
    Fair enough regarding Dublin Airport, but an intercity service is just that, an intercity service, so to stop for every bit of urban infrastructure would be a bit much.

    Anyway, if we ever get moderate speed rail it will be merely an upgrade of our current lines. The best we can hope for a Dublin Airport link is MetroNorthLink being extended to Donabate for connection with Northern Line services.

    Given the demand for Dublin Airport, it really is a no brained to stop there.

    A spur from Clongriffin to the airport wouldn’t be the end of then world. Even doing 100kmph it would take around 10 minutes which in the overall scheme of things is nothing. Aren’t Manchester Airport and Stanstead on spur lines?

    From there via a quad tracked northern line and then DART underground would be the best use of resources.


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