European Super League - plans announced

CSF · 20-10-2020 5:53pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Travelling away to games regularly isn't really a big thing outside of UK and Ireland. I also think that travelling to pretty much every away game is an unhealthy relationship with a club. A lot of these people have families too. Would they not just put their kids into private school with the money instead or something?

They can pick and choose which games they can go to. And the trips would be a lot more exotic. It might even start to address Toxic Fan Culture.

You’re entitled to that view on how those people spend their weekends. I don’t think that should stretch as far as wanting it taken away from them though.

I’ve spent some depressing Friday evenings in Ballybofey when I could have been doing better things, but the payoff when things go well is well worth it.

CSF · 20-10-2020 5:55pm

Also, you can add Germany to that list of countries who follow their team relentlessly across the country.

Zebra3 · 20-10-2020 6:03pm

CSF wrote: »

Also, you can add Germany to that list of countries who follow their team relentlessly across the country.

And Italy. And France. And Holland. And Belgium. And Switzerland. And Austria.

Liberta Per Gli Ultra · 20-10-2020 6:05pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

And Italy. And France. And Holland. And Belgium. And Switzerland. And Austria.

And Portugal. And Greece.

beggars_bush · 20-10-2020 6:10pm

Good to see they had a back up plan

CSF · 20-10-2020 6:27pm

beggars_bush wrote: »

Good to see they had a back up plan

Well it seems like all part of the same plan. This was what they wanted League Cup gone and less league games for.

20-10-2020 7:46pm

Bet there are contributors In the "sure this is fine, football was always about business and greed" camp now who had previously railed against the Glazers, Man City, PSG etc.

Which is not a criticism per se, in fact u turns are sometimes better than principles.

breezy1985 · 20-10-2020 8:18pm

Morrison J wrote: »

I actually think the likes of Leeds, Everton, Newcastle etc would kind of win in this situation. It's the fans of Many Utd that'd lose out big time. Being a bad team in a league with no relegation would be the dullest thing ever. Most can probably afford to go to one or two away games a year max? Potentially eventually resign their FA affiliation as part of it so can't play in domestic cup competitions either. Sounds very grim.

Think most fans of a team in the Super League would likely adopt a lower league local team that they can actually follow home and away too.

Fans of Man Utd and Liverpool seem to have no idea how bad of an idea this is for them but give it a couple of seasons max and it's dawn on them pretty quick.

It will be great for the gates at FCUM

Hulk Hands · 21-10-2020 12:28am

listermint wrote: »

I think you mean it sounds the opposite to class. It sounds ****. It sounds like the Americanisation of European football.

Ball sacks for everyone bar the few owners.

Greed.

Money

Greed.

You'd know by it that it stinks it's backed by a walls street bank.

Wrarrr rarr rarrr greed, rarr rarr death of football, rarr rarr money. As if any of us here can talk about the commercialisation of football.

What sport has not benefited from its top teams playing each other regularly? The idea that football will become a for greed persuit is laughable when this happened for the vast majority of fans 30 years ago.

Your average small town English football fan is Brexit Billy with a bald head and a priickish attitude. Why should we give a toss if these teams are unconvienced. People don't like change irationally

CSF · 21-10-2020 12:35am

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Wrarrr rarr rarrr greed, rarr rarr death of football, rarr rarr money. As if any of us here can talk about the commercialisation of football.

What sport has not benefited from its top teams playing each other regularly? The idea that football will become a for greed persuit is laughable when this happened for the vast majority of fans 30 years ago.

Your average small town English football fan is Brexit Billy with a bald head and a priickish attitude. Why should we give a toss if these teams are unconvienced. People don't like change irationally

I don’t understand your point here. Why can’t we talk about the commercialisation of football? Because we like football in spite of things that are going on?

21-10-2020 5:12am

Expect a revamped CL with more money.

Mission accomplished by the big teams. Rinse and repeat.

21-10-2020 6:22am

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Wrarrr rarr rarrr greed, rarr rarr death of football, rarr rarr money. As if any of us here can talk about the commercialisation of football.

What sport has not benefited from its top teams playing each other regularly? The idea that football will become a for greed persuit is laughable when this happened for the vast majority of fans 30 years ago.

Your average small town English football fan is Brexit Billy with a bald head and a priickish attitude. Why should we give a toss if these teams are unconvienced. People don't like change irationally

If you have a ridiculous point, simply stick in baby noises and a bizarre reference to Brexit and hair loss to really add to it...

Fr Tod Umptious · 21-10-2020 6:47am

CSF wrote: »

I don’t understand your point here. Why can’t we talk about the commercialisation of football? Because we like football in spite of things that are going on?

Is understanding the posters point really that difficult ?

Without speaking for the poster I think his/her point is very simple.

Why are people upset with this new venture that sees the top teams in Europe play each other more regularly when it's obvious that fans want to see the top teams play more regularly ?

Why the complaints about the greed
and commercialization of the game now when it's been going on for at least 30 years and people have been very willing over those years to buy the jerseys, the day trips, the Sky subs etc ?

And do people here really give a tuppenny f**k for the lower league clubs and their fans ?

As the poster said in an earlier post on this thread, there is a lot of butt hurt about this in England, but they are not sure if that should be the case here.
I agree with them, it makes little difference to the vast vast majority of us here, who follow English teams through the TV screen.

irishguitarlad · 21-10-2020 7:43am

People are saying that it will be ultra competitive but it will just end up like basketball in the end where only the same teams win it, United or liverpool could be footballs version of the Minnesota Timberwolves.

Fr Tod Umptious · 21-10-2020 8:03am

irishguitarlad wrote: »

People are saying that it will be ultra competitive but it will just end up like basketball in the end where only the same teams win it, United or liverpool could be footballs version of the Minnesota Timberwolves.

That doesn't stop the NBA from being a popular league and a lucrative business.

Actually the NBA is a good example.
It's made up of a few core teams from decades ago and it merged with smaller leagues throughout the years.
So basically it was various leagues coming together to form a single league.

Hodors Appletart · 21-10-2020 8:47am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And do people here really give a tuppenny f**k for the lower league clubs and their fans ?

you'll probably find that loi fans would have more of a kinship to fans of stockport county and leyton orient than fans of the megaclubs man u and liverpool and understand the problems and issues present at clubs like that more intimately than consumers of a product like the epl

McFly85 · 21-10-2020 8:57am

A league format with the top teams in the world would be great in a lot of ways, almost guaranteed cracking fixtures every week, great locations for away games for the fans, and a league system is the best way to determine who the best team in a given year is.

The downsides are increased separation from local competitions. For teams in Europe, these have become increasingly irrelevant in recent years anyway, but even if it’s just the revamped CL it’s likely that this separation will happen. Every team has priorities and competitions that will generate more money will obviously take precedence.

The big one depends on if the league is a closed shop. I really wonder if long term something like that would be sustainable. You could easily have a team invited to this being completely outclassed season upon season with other teams in their local leagues looking far more deserving of a place. I have no doubt that for the first few years they would generate immense interest, but could it end up feeling like an expensive Audi Cup?

Can’t see UEFA backing it anyway, and they’ll probably guarantee more money for these clubs in the revamped CL. Shame though, I really think that if they could keep sporting integrity up there with revenue in the priorities, it could be fantastic.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 21-10-2020 9:37am

McFly85 wrote: »

A league format with the top teams in the world would be great in a lot of ways, almost guaranteed cracking fixtures every week, great locations for away games for the fans, and a league system is the best way to determine who the best team in a given year is.

I don't really agree with this part.

Knockout football takes huge skill, just as much as in the league format. Ideally this will have both league and knockout format - which is what has been suggested from what I've read. It would be sad to see the end of the great spectacle and drama that we get in the knockout rounds of the CL.

Also, it's probably unlikely that there will be very many away fans attending these matches. Not in significant numbers anyway, as very few fans could afford 13-14 away trips per season. (Away travelling support is not really as big outside of English football anyway)

McFly85 · 21-10-2020 9:56am

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

I don't really agree with this part.

Knockout football takes huge skill, just as much as in the league format. Ideally this will have both league and knockout format - which is what has been suggested from what I've read. It would be sad to see the end of the great spectacle and drama that we get in the knockout rounds of the CL.

Also, it's probably unlikely that there will be very many away fans attending these matches. Not in significant numbers anyway, as very few fans could afford 13-14 away trips per season. (Away travelling support is not really as big outside of English football anyway)

Knockout football is definitely exciting, but it’s possible to get a kind draw or to be lucky to have a team with their best player injured/suspended etc. Playing everyone home and away takes away any advantage of the luck of the draw.

Regarding away fans, there will be no shortage of fans to fill the seats, as all of these clubs will have fans across Europe. Season ticket holders should be given priority access for tickets but you wouldn’t expect them to go to every game considering the local league will still be being played.

Unearthly · 21-10-2020 10:00am

McFly85 wrote: »

Knockout football is definitely exciting, but it’s possible to get a kind draw or to be lucky to have a team with their best player injured/suspended etc. Playing everyone home and away takes away any advantage of the luck of the draw.

Regarding away fans, there will be no shortage of fans to fill the seats, as all of these clubs will have fans across Europe. Season ticket holders should be given priority access for tickets but you wouldn’t expect them to go to every game considering the local league will still be being played.

The problem would be that for the majority of the teams the games would be meaningless unless they had a chance of coming 1st. Imagine team in 13th v team in 16th. No relegation concerns, no concerns that that poor performance will lead to them not qualifying for the competition next year and no chance of winning it. So what's the incentive.

At least with the current CL format, unless you bomb the opening group games there's always something to play for.

McFly85 · 21-10-2020 10:10am

Unearthly wrote: »

The problem would be that for the majority of the teams the games would be meaningless unless they had a chance of coming 1st. Imagine team in 13th v team in 16th. No relegation concerns, no concerns that that poor performance will lead to them not qualifying for the competition next year and no chance of winning it. So what's the incentive.

At least with the current CL format, unless you bomb the opening group games there's always something to play for.

Oh I agree, the second half of the season would contain dozens of pointless games when you have teams know they won’t make the finals. You’d have them start treating it like the league cup, sending second string teams out while they concentrate on their domestic league(unless there is a massive difference in prize money between finishing places). Relegation by country would help keep a lot of games interesting at least.

~Rebel~ · 21-10-2020 10:32am

The proposal isn’t even for a normal league though.

It’s for a league just to determine seeding and to thin the numbers a bit, before it turns into a knockout tournament for the rest. So actually the stakes are low enough as you only need to be in the top 8, or even 16 (if they really stretch it to make their money) to be there when the actually interesting stuff starts.

It’ll be like the CL but with a reeeeaaallllyyy long drawn out group phase.

OPs Article wrote:

The top-placed teams in the league would then play in a knockout format to conclude the tournament, with prize money for the winners expected to be worth hundreds of millions of pounds each year.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 21-10-2020 10:52am

McFly85 wrote: »

Knockout football is definitely exciting, but it’s possible to get a kind draw or to be lucky to have a team with their best player injured/suspended etc. Playing everyone home and away takes away any advantage of the luck of the draw.

Regarding away fans, there will be no shortage of fans to fill the seats, as all of these clubs will have fans across Europe. Season ticket holders should be given priority access for tickets but you wouldn’t expect them to go to every game considering the local league will still be being played.

Knockout football very often tests players and managers with how they deal with high pressure situations. If you have a bad game in knockout format, then it can be curtains... no second chances. So it's all about holding your nerve and not allowing pressure to ruin your game.

Where as in league football, you can have a bad day at the office (or even several) and still end up top at the end of the season. You can even lose to some of the strongest teams in the league, but do a better job of accumulating points against the weaker teams - so end up with more points. A bit like Blackburn when they won the EPL in the mid-90's... struggled against some of the stronger teams, but still won the league.

Regarding fans, I agree there will be no problem filling stadiums - I was just disagreeing about there being lots of away fans. I can't see many away fans having the money to travel across Europe for 13-14 away games per season. So that will take away somewhat from the spectacle - but in Spain for example, it's not really a big thing to travel for away games anyway. Not to the same scale as in England etc.

Unearthly wrote: »

The problem would be that for the majority of the teams the games would be meaningless unless they had a chance of coming 1st. Imagine team in 13th v team in 16th. No relegation concerns, no concerns that that poor performance will lead to them not qualifying for the competition next year and no chance of winning it. So what's the incentive.

At least with the current CL format, unless you bomb the opening group games there's always something to play for.

Yeah, I think this is one of the main reason they are unlikely to make it league format alone. And why would you kill off all the excitement of knockout football anyway...? Fans love the drama of the CL knockout rounds. Unpredictability is a big part of the fun of sport.

The play-offs in the championship, for example, are hugely popular... imagine something like this, but with say the top 8 teams in world football all trying to qualify for the play-off spots. Would be a very exciting league from start to finish...

I think the main reason these top teams want an expanded league format, is that it guarantees more money spinning games... that's the reason why they tried to expand the CL into two group stages years ago.

listermint · 21-10-2020 11:11am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That doesn't stop the NBA from being a popular league and a lucrative business.

Actually the NBA is a good example.
It's made up of a few core teams from decades ago and it merged with smaller leagues throughout the years.
So basically it was various leagues coming together to form a single league.

Aye sub par product with ridiculously expensive ticket prices.

Cant see why any 'fan' would be into this. I think its just another case of being contrary for the sake of it.

Same as the folks that vote for trump or pip up for brexit. Absolute hard ons for making more money for a select view to the benefit of no one else.

These lads dont even have to put any work in, there are internet people that will sell it all for them...

Shanotheslayer · 21-10-2020 11:15am

listermint wrote: »

Aye sub par product with ridiculously expensive ticket prices.

Cant see why any 'fan' would be into this. I think its just another case of being contrary for the sake of it.

Not all fans buy these tickets they just watch them so it has no effect in times of pricing.

listermint wrote: »

Same as the folks that vote for trump or pip up for brexit. Absolute hard ons for making more money for a select view to the benefit of no one else.

Jesus, imagine people voting for their self interests.

CSF · 21-10-2020 11:21am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Is understanding the posters point really that difficult ?

Without speaking for the poster I think his/her point is very simple.

Why are people upset with this new venture that sees the top teams in Europe play each other more regularly when it's obvious that fans want to see the top teams play more regularly ?

Why the complaints about the greed
and commercialization of the game now when it's been going on for at least 30 years and people have been very willing over those years to buy the jerseys, the day trips, the Sky subs etc ?

And do people here really give a tuppenny f**k for the lower league clubs and their fans ?

As the poster said in an earlier post on this thread, there is a lot of butt hurt about this in England, but they are not sure if that should be the case here.
I agree with them, it makes little difference to the vast vast majority of us here, who follow English teams through the TV screen.

People have complained about various things during that time. And do care about smaller clubs. Many people even support them both in Ireland, England and sometimes even abroad for various reasons.

21-10-2020 11:35am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That doesn't stop the NBA from being a popular league and a lucrative business.

Actually the NBA is a good example.
It's made up of a few core teams from decades ago and it merged with smaller leagues throughout the years.
So basically it was various leagues coming together to form a single league.

I'd say you'd find plenty of analysis out there criticising the US sports model, pointing to declining attendances etc.

As someone who had $600 tickets to a Knicks Celtics game last year and drank tallboys that cost $28 a can, and ended up at the bar way up on the Bridge with our backs to the game and a half empty MSG, it's not an experience I'd go back to. Now obviously the Knicks are awful, and everything in MSG/NY is expensive, but it goes to show what can happen...

breezy1985 · 21-10-2020 11:56am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd say you'd find plenty of analysis out there criticising the US sports model, pointing to declining attendances etc.

As someone who had $600 tickets to a Knicks Celtics game last year and drank tallboys that cost $28 a can, and ended up at the bar way up on the Bridge with our backs to the game and a half empty MSG, it's not an experience I'd go back to. Now obviously the Knicks are awful, and everything in MSG/NY is expensive, but it goes to show what can happen...

I met a fair few hockey fans in Canada would rather support the division 2 sides or whatever they call it

listermint · 21-10-2020 12:16pm

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Not all fans buy these tickets they just watch them so it has no effect in times of pricing.

Jesus, imagine people voting for their self interests.

You've proven my point neither scenario I pointed to are for someone's self interest. It only benefits a wealthy beneficator who subverts the information to make you think it will be good for you.

With all the access to technology and information people have. They are still in 2020 taken in by absolute snake oil salesmen. It's like a parody of the wagon rolling up in the wild west. Selling elixirs and potions that will allow you lift a horse.

Turning European football into the NBA makes it less for fans. Not more .

Only owners gain.

Fr Tod Umptious · 21-10-2020 12:25pm

listermint wrote: »

Aye sub par product with ridiculously expensive ticket prices.

Cant see why any 'fan' would be into this. I think its just another case of being contrary for the sake of it.

Same as the folks that vote for trump or pip up for brexit. Absolute hard ons for making more money for a select view to the benefit of no one else.

These lads dont even have to put any work in, there are internet people that will sell it all for them...

Well to be honest I'm not actually a "fan".
I watched soccer to varying degrees over the years but the last few years my interest has been at an all time low.
Other than the Irish national team I've never supported any particular team.
But I've not lost interest because of any over commercialization or anything, I just lost interest.

So I'm looking at this from a different perspective.
I see businesses looking for the next major opportunity.
They have lived with the EPL for 30 years and now they want to expand, and that expansion involves a European wide league.

I find that soccer fans are very resistant to change
Many seem to have these romantic notions about how the game/league/sport has deteriorated during their time of following it and that things were always better back in the old days.

That's not the case, that's just a memory of ones youth that is now gone.

The guys who grew up in the 50s thought soccer had gone to hell in the 80s (and it had actually)
The guys who grew up in the 80s still wonder where the "magic of the FA cup " is gone, and hate these all seater identikit stadiums.
The guys who grew up in the 00s are wondering what the hell is going on with Arab and US super money buying up clubs.

As for the NBA being a "sub par product"
Sub par compared to what exactly ?
Note: I'm not a basketball fan either, can't stand the sport

Fr Tod Umptious · 21-10-2020 12:28pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

I met a fair few hockey fans in Canada would rather support the division 2 sides or whatever they call it

And there are a fair few soccer fans in England that would rather support the division 2 sides or whatever they call it.

But that does not answer why people over here in Ireland, who don't support those division 2 sides or whatever they call it, should be getting so upset about all this.

Lyle Lanley · 21-10-2020 1:42pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Travelling away to games regularly isn't really a big thing outside of UK and Ireland. I also think that travelling to pretty much every away game is an unhealthy relationship with a club. A lot of these people have families too. Would they not just put their kids into private school with the money instead or something?

They can pick and choose which games they can go to. And the trips would be a lot more exotic. It might even start to address Toxic Fan Culture.

That is absolute nonsense. I have several contacts in Bergamo Italy who have followed their team all around the country for years. From Seria B to the Champions League. Under this proposal they won't even be allowed in to the top level obviously because Atalanta isn't a big enough name.

Every team has fans like this. You want to deny them the right to watch their teams games just so you can **** over United Vs Madrid 4 times a year. Don't pretend to have any concern for their children's welfare, that point is almost worse than your first.

Seriously, the worst take on anything I've seen on this website. Fair play.

Mitch Connor · 21-10-2020 1:49pm

Woodward saying on an investor call that United have not been involved in any discussions about this.

So that throws the entire story into question as United are reported as a big mover on this.

Woodward, and united, could be sued if he lied on an investor call so while I hate tge guy and think he lies about United all tge time, lying about this world be potentially extremely damaging.

breezy1985 · 21-10-2020 2:37pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And there are a fair few soccer fans in England that would rather support the division 2 sides or whatever they call it.

But that does not answer why people over here in Ireland, who don't support those division 2 sides or whatever they call it, should be getting so upset about all this.

For most clubs outside of the championship it won't matter one bit if United and the likes f off might even make for a fairer more fan based game in the UK.

As for the Irish how many of the "it's all about the money" "it's a disgrace" people will say enough is enough and go down and watch their LOI clubs instead very few I reckon.

breezy1985 · 21-10-2020 2:42pm

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

That is absolute nonsense. I have several contacts in Bergamo Italy who have followed their team all around the country for years. From Seria B to the Champions League. Under this proposal they won't even be allowed in to the top level obviously because Atalanta isn't a big enough name.

Every team has fans like this. You want to deny them the right to watch their teams games just so you can **** over United Vs Madrid 4 times a year. Don't pretend to have any concern for their children's welfare, that point is almost worse than your first.

Seriously, the worst take on anything I've seen on this website. Fair play.

Clearly you wouldn't understand because you didn't go to private school : (

jayo26 · 21-10-2020 4:08pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Woodward saying on an investor call that United have not been involved in any discussions about this.

So that throws the entire story into question as United are reported as a big mover on this.

Woodward, and united, could be sued if he lied on an investor call so while I hate tge guy and think he lies about United all tge time, lying about this world be potentially extremely damaging.

Agree Mitch its more fabricated nonsense by looks of it. Slow news week.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 21-10-2020 4:36pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Travelling away to games regularly isn't really a big thing outside of UK and Ireland. I also think that travelling to pretty much every away game is an unhealthy relationship with a club. A lot of these people have families too. Would they not just put their kids into private school with the money instead or something?

They can pick and choose which games they can go to. And the trips would be a lot more exotic. It might even start to address Toxic Fan Culture.

Absolutely spot on.

It's more important to support your team for home games anyway. I would agree with the likes of the Spanish in that regard.

This sort of model is basically unstoppable going forward. Whether or not it happens in 2022 or not, it's going to happen at some point in the next 10-15 years. People like the old fashioned idea of small clubs taking on huge clubs, I get that and all... but there is far more to be gained for the Burnley's and Bournemouth's playing Man Utd or Liverpool etc than the opposite way around.

Personally, I would actually love to see a competition where all the top clubs had financial parity with each other... so it would be purely about how well you coach and manage your players and use your resources. Rather than it being about certain clubs outspending each other... But I think that is probably a long way off ever happening tbh.

But you'll certainly never get that, when you have Man Utd's and Burnley's etc in the same league as each other... some of those smaller clubs will simply never be capable of catching up financially or in terms of fan base etc. So something like the EPL will always be a somewhat lopsided competition.

Okon · 21-10-2020 6:02pm

If it really is being backed by FIFA and JP Morgan really are involved, then it or something similar to it will happen at some stage. The fact that nobody from FIFA has popped their head up to deny these allegations says a lot more to me than any wishful anger from fans.

European 'super league' talks have gone on on a regular basis over the years, usually to prompt UEFA in to giving the elite clubs a bigger slice of the pie, hence the various re-structures to the European competitions over the years - another one is due in 2024. The reports of the world governing body of football being involved in these current 'talks', if true, would be a big game changer. FIFA have been wanting to dip their fingers in to the coffers of top level club football for years, as there's big money in it. So if FIFA are involved, this is just the start of it...

Richard Hillman · 27-10-2020 9:44pm

https://twitter.com/HLNinEngeland/status/1321187103049469952?s=19

Business is about to pick up

Cookiemunster · 27-10-2020 9:50pm

That's the Bartomeu who, along with the entire Barca board, has just resigned. This decision AFAIK needs to be ratified by the members, which seeing as it's a Bartomeu decision, is very unlikely to happen. And the new President and board could just take them back out.

Agent Coulson · 27-10-2020 10:02pm

Seeing as Barca have no money whatsoever they will look at the super league as an easy way of getting money.

Richard Hillman · 27-10-2020 10:03pm

Of all the super clubs, Barcelona are most likely to go for it. Massive financial problems and politically with the whole catalonia situation. They cannot possibly expect to play in La Liga if Catalonia breakaway from Spain. La Liga would of course want it but the Spanish government and any future catalan government won't want it. And playing in a Catalan League basically turns them into a Benfica or Ajax, except no domestic competition.

As I said previously, you don't need the elite clubs first. The likes of the big 2 in Ukraine and Scotland would jump at it. RB Leipzig could jump. Athletic Bilbao may be tempted. The Arabs may want to get involved too.

Cookiemunster · 27-10-2020 10:13pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Of all the super clubs, Barcelona are most likely to go for it. Massive financial problems and politically with the whole catalonia situation. They cannot possibly expect to play in La Liga if Catalonia breakaway from Spain. La Liga would of course want it but the Spanish government and any future catalan government won't want it. And playing in a Catalan League basically turns them into a Benfica or Ajax, except no domestic competition.

As I said previously, you don't need the elite clubs first. The likes of the big 2 in Ukraine and Scotland would jump at it. RB Leipzig could jump. Athletic Bilbao may be tempted. The Arabs may want to get involved too.

Who's going to pay to watch Ukrainian and Scottish teams? Or a German team that's not Bayern or Dortmund? The answer is nobody. If it doesn't have the elite teams then the money won't be there. There's a reason the money in the CL is so high compared to the EL.

CSF · 28-10-2020 12:45am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Who's going to pay to watch Ukrainian and Scottish teams? Or a German team that's not Bayern or Dortmund? The answer is nobody. If it doesn't have the elite teams then the money won't be there. There's a reason the money in the CL is so high compared to the EL.

Yeah, I’ve been avoiding watching the likes of Rangers v Bilbao every Thursday in the Autumn for years.

breezy1985 · 28-10-2020 11:36am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Who's going to pay to watch Ukrainian and Scottish teams? Or a German team that's not Bayern or Dortmund? The answer is nobody. If it doesn't have the elite teams then the money won't be there. There's a reason the money in the CL is so high compared to the EL.

If it was to happen that the top English teams jump I would say what's left of the Premier League will be well up for letting Celtic and Rangers in

Cookiemunster · 28-10-2020 11:52am

CSF wrote: »

Yeah, I’ve been avoiding watching the likes of Rangers v Bilbao every Thursday in the Autumn for years.

Good for you. However the viewing figures and sponsorship monies show that the CL is much much more popular than the EL. More people want to watch the bigger elite teams than the lower ranked teams. Quite simply a Euro break away won't happen with lower ranked European teams because the TV and sponsorship deals won't be there to make it viable.

CSF · 28-10-2020 1:01pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Good for you. However the viewing figures and sponsorship monies show that the CL is much much more popular than the EL. More people want to watch the bigger elite teams than the lower ranked teams. Quite simply a Euro break away won't happen with lower ranked European teams because the TV and sponsorship deals won't be there to make it viable.

Aren’t you agreeing with me?

Richard Hillman · 28-10-2020 1:03pm

I dont think people are reading the bigger picture. Once a league is set up it creates the template and increases the power moves.

Of course the league will lose money in the first few years, if you have one or 2 big clubs and then teams from smaller leagues. Even the IPL in cricket lost money in the first few years.

If Barcelona, Athletic Bilbao, Monaco and then big population markets like Ukraine, Russia, Turkey and Middle East jump, the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool, Real Madrid, Juventus will start manoeuvring in their own leagues for power. This will create a panic from the mid to high ranked clubs in their own leagues. The likes of Everton, Lazio, Valencia will see this as their one opportunity to make it into a league. These are the clubs that wouldn't be big enough to get into a European Super League if all of the big clubs jumped at once but would see it as their one opportunity to make it. They will become absolutely irrelevant if the big clubs in their leagues leave. Once the dominos start falling, the whole thing falls apart.

It won't be this shiny big league of the all of the elite at first, it will be a grower. But after 3-4 years the true shape of the league will take place.

Think of the PDC in darts and the BDO. The PDC in the first couple of years wasn't much. The bulk of the talent was still in the BDO but they PDC had a handful of big names to keep it going. The superior structure for the players (the owners in football) was what won through.

Guy:Incognito · 28-10-2020 1:05pm

breezy1985 wrote: »

If it was to happen that the top English teams jump I would say what's left of the Premier League will be well up for letting Celtic and Rangers in

I'm sure they could negotiate joining now if they want, but to work their way up the divisions, which I can't see them going for.

At no stage should they be allowed parachute in to the pl.

breezy1985 · 28-10-2020 1:23pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I'm sure they could negotiate joing now if they want, but to work their way up the divisions, which I can't see them going for.

At no stage should they be allowed parachute in to the pl.

That's kinda what I meant. If the Prem lost its top teams I think the league would be more willing to give into the old firm on where the enter the pyramid which would be the only stumbling block if the CL and EL were gone or diminished

European Super League - plans announced

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