Dublin - The Home Of Poor Design

markpb · 12-10-2020 2:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you imagine the architect behind the Sydney Opera House being told his design is nice, but it has to be smaller than 10 storeys?

Not the best example. The relationship between NSW government and the SOH's architect wasn't exactly pink and fluffy

Muahahaha · 12-10-2020 2:53pm

I thought there was (and maybe still is?) planning permission for a hotel behind the Convention Centre. Its a nice building but I wonder was that beige cladding always part of the final plan or did they cheap out on it. I think the glass structure looks great but the actual cladding wrapping the building isnt great.

12-10-2020 3:25pm

beauf wrote: »

Not just Dublin. Ireland.

I wonder is it because good design is expensive. Pretty much everything in Ireland is overpriced. So there isn't the budget for design.

I think as a society we've driven out any appreciation of design except in niche areas. Maybe that's also happened in architecture schools.

You can't buy taste. I think as a nation we just don't seem to be good at visual aesthetics. We are also the worst dressed European country despite our prosperity over the years. Our coastline has so much potential but seems to be blighted by grey concrete whenever we build anything.

12-10-2020 5:37pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Looks gorgeous Cat. The southside does have some really nice apartment developments, I suppose because prices are a fair bit higher the developers have to put in more effort. But aside from that it sounds (and looks) like you've a good management company to keep the landscaping well. That isnt always the case in apartment developments, especially when a majority of apartments are owned by investors.

Most apartments in my place are either owner occupied or owned by people who have actually lived on the estate. Several established medical consultants brought their first homes here as registrars or new consultants and then when they started having families moved out into a house but retained the original apartment as an investment. There are lots of landlords on the estate who might live in one apartment or house and let another.

There's a couple of apartments in the newer phase let to social housing, but are very quiet and the only way you might perhaps identify them is the amount of children's stuff visible through the windows. The maintenance company do a very good job, and we get the flowerbeds replanted regularly all year around. The permanent caretaker knows most long term residents.

Cienciano · 12-10-2020 8:40pm

KevRossi wrote: »

The apartments here are dire, there isn't one built in the last 20 years that I'd keep.

But when you have this model of drabness at the entrance to the port, it's obvious architecture has very little imagination here, or at least those with ideas are not allowed to express them. How much better would that look if they had a Hundertwasser building there.

But then again the planners said this piece of insignificant nonsense was good in front of Dublin Castle on a street with the potential of Dame St.

Christ, they're shíte. The thing in front of dublin castle is particularly bad. The stickers in the window are bad, but the glass front looks like scaffolding or something.

Chinasea wrote: »

Add to all this, no greenery and no both public and private tree planting. Filthy gray paths and public bins crying out for some regular power hosing.

I'm fine with grey paths. Power hosing the ground is the biggest waste of money ever. Think people are finally realising cobble lock driveways weren't a great idea.

12-10-2020 8:48pm

markpb wrote: »

Not the best example. The relationship between NSW government and the SOH's architect wasn't exactly pink and fluffy

You understand the comparison though.

CBear1993 · 12-10-2020 10:57pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Never mind endless drab semi D suburbs with no proper communal hubs or villages. The whole place is a bit of a mess.

This, the endless new developments popping up everywhere with the same 3/4 bed semis. Hundreds of them in a plot, just sprung up all over Dublin, Kildare, Meath, Wicklow. Every f*cking one looks the same!!

White render, a tiny drive you can barely fit your car on, and a matchbox garden. It really is depressing looking.

Took a drive up to the county Dublin seaside towns from the city at the weekend, these developments were on the edge of lusk/donabate/rush (can’t remember) but it was awful.

Look at hollystown, not a shop or community to be seen around it. And don’t let them fool you that they will, it’s on the edge of damastown and the whole of Blanchardstown corporate/industrial parks. Why people pay €400K+ for a new house there is beyond me.

Architects in the city have it handy. The real architects are building fantastic homes in rural Ireland in the countryside.

Cienciano · 12-10-2020 11:47pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Architects in the city have it handy. The real architects are building fantastic homes in rural Ireland in the countryside.

Hold on - One off housing in rural areas is poxy too.

People are buying them because they need somewhere to live. I don't think the average person takes in the looks of the exterior of the house when buying. Functionality inside, size, location, price, garden size and orientation would be more important for me than what it looked liked from the outside.

Strumms · 13-10-2020 1:46am

Niallof9 wrote: »

people like yourself are the exact reason people like the OP can have these complaints. why would anybody build anything remarkable when there's people giving out about four storey buildings. People really need to actively walk the whole city and take it all in and then judge. I'm talking about seeing it from Swords to Sandyford, some of the worst stuff isn't modern. Most of the crappy architecture comes about because of nimbysim and the outrageous delays planning can have. Look up the history of the Ulster bank building in town. The Cosgraves had another beautiful 25 storey glass building refused, but they had old planning permission for the darker one that stands today much to DCC's dismay. Nimbys, an taisce, DCC, the Gerogian society, ABP, have this city ruined. Much of the Docklands will need to be rebuilt at some stage. and it wasn't FG who did this. the ringsend protests in 1999 against de high rise were facilitated by the same people of the ringsend protests last month. Your left leaning politicans and people scared of change. People complained about the reconstruction of 19th century Paris and the Dublin wide street comission. GO figure.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/docklands-high-rise-schemes-threatened-by-ruling-1.207940?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fdocklands-high-rise-schemes-threatened-by-ruling-1.207940

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-ringsend-york-road-development-5167429-Aug2020/

I don’t agree with NIMBYism, but AS per your reply the implication is that anybody who objects to planning applications is a NIMBY and was the catalyst in our case...

Simply not the case and anybody can see through that deliberately disingenuous idea that you are playing with.

If a build is not in keeping with other properties so the build overshadows a neighbour, causing loss of light it can be refused. Should be.

In addition to the light issue the wall they built surrounding their front garden , a corner house was built to such a height that when you are driving out of the estate, traffic approaching the junction from the right is only visible at the last second. Too late, unsafe as you need to edge out to safely see.

So either the planners fûcked up / couldn’t give two fûcks when approving or it was built outside of the specs submitted in the plans...

Be good if that was the case the council would do a ‘post build’ inspection.. with the deterrent in place that IF something is built not to the plans, be it the wall or the main property they simply get instructions to tear it down or fix... that would focus the minds of these fûckwit builders.

lalababa · 13-10-2020 2:05am

Same s##t different day in Cork. If planning consists of putting 300 identical houses in a field just on the edge of the city , serviced by a country lane and feck all else, then things are tickety boo.
Although they have put up some 8 story apts/office buildings recently around the train station.

bb1234567 · 13-10-2020 2:06am

Deleted User wrote: »

I live in an apartment in an award-winning mixed leafy estate of housing/apartment blocks, on a former religious order site. The architects office is on the estate so they have to look at their work every day, which helped with the design. Pet ownership is an accepted part of living in the apartments, with dog waste disposal unit in the parkland. The kitchen was open plan and useless before I got it walked off and fitted with useful shelving. Both bedrooms are ample and I have a decent sized living room where my large dining table fits in nicely. There is a small storage room within the apartment, but the underground car park was not well designed, and for family/active living storage units ought to have been provided at the outset for sports items, outdoorsy stuff etc. They are trying to figure out a way retrospectively provide locker units now. They did get a lot right in my estate and I'm very lucky to be living here, but way more such living spaces are needed in Dublin and with more forethought for all the practical needs of folk living in them. They need to be places you can call home, not just lodge in for a few years. Goodness knows these times we are getting to know our dwelling environment all too well.

Mt St.Annes? What do I win

markpb · 13-10-2020 7:09am

Strumms wrote: »

If a build is not in keeping with other properties so the build overshadows a neighbour, causing loss of light it can be refused. Should be.

If that was the case, which it’s not, the endless sea of low density, high-cost, single-family semi-Ds in Dublin would never change. Thankfully it’s slowly changing now with a greater mixture of styles and uses and a greater density being achieved. It’s a disconcerting change for people living in the semi-Ds who will continue to use the same reasons to object (not in keeping with the area, loss of sunlight, traffic, schools, etc) but it will continue happening.

Valresnick · 13-10-2020 7:11am

Apartments in Ireland are essentially rabbit hutches. You can hear everything above you in nearly all of them, even the high end one unless you buy a penthouse.

Niallof9 · 13-10-2020 8:40am

Strumms wrote: »

I don’t agree with NIMBYism, but AS per your reply the implication is that anybody who objects to planning applications is a NIMBY and was the catalyst in our case...

Simply not the case and anybody can see through that deliberately disingenuous idea that you are playing with.

If a build is not in keeping with other properties so the build overshadows a neighbour, causing loss of light it can be refused. Should be.

In addition to the light issue the wall they built surrounding their front garden , a corner house was built to such a height that when you are driving out of the estate, traffic approaching the junction from the right is only visible at the last second. Too late, unsafe as you need to edge out to safely see.

So either the planners fûcked up / couldn’t give two fûcks when approving or it was built outside of the specs submitted in the plans...

Be good if that was the case the council would do a ‘post build’ inspection.. with the deterrent in place that IF something is built not to the plans, be it the wall or the main property they simply get instructions to tear it down or fix... that would focus the minds of these fûckwit builders.

Yeah i'm not advocating every development. There has to be some planning, of course. and obviously without seeing it i can't really judge fairly so point accepted. I suppose i'm more referring to the high profile ones in key sites like in Marino, Glasnevin, the ones in Coolock etc. I mean loads of Dublin was new build. We have people on this thread objecting to semi d's, one off housing and apartments. like wut? people need to live somewhere and if you can't build in rural spaces, city centres, suburban areas where the hell can you? as another poster saids "not in keeping with the area" has its limits and thankfully so. I mean i'm sure the nice houses in MArino objected to the huge construction in the 1950s as not in keeping with the area. St Anne's Park was much larger yet we got it for housing, in fact the whole seafront area there was given over by Guinness. Things change, needs must. Yet if the same thing happened today people would be up in arms, against change.

Its a living, breathing, ever changing city with diminishing space, and diminishing returns. we need to build up and we need to densify our city centres. instead we have semi d's in our main streets in the city and people objecting at every turn. and these costs and delay have knock on effects leading to shoddy cheaper design. The bridge fiasco being one latest example.

i suppose the only fair thing is to see some context. i'd need to see the development you are talking about and know what region. if its anywhere in the urban region near a town centre like ranelagh or rathmines or Drumcondra then tough luck i say. if its out in stepaside or artane or somewhere completely suburban then yeah perhaps i'd have some sympathy, not much though unless it was truly blocking sunlight and hanging over the garden. and i'm sure its not because we have very stringent planning laws where any tom dick and harry can object to anything, anywhere in the country.

15-10-2020 7:24pm

I did a driving tour of Scotland a couple of years ago. Loads of lovely small villages all in keeping with the area. Drive around Galway, where I'm from and its all McMansions everywhere.

Muahahaha · 15-10-2020 7:33pm

We should also give credit where it is due. Here on Cuffe Street just off Harcourt Street this drab 1950s office building is getting replaced by something a lot easier on the eye

This is it now

And how it will look in when finished in early 2022

A good effort on a small site so credit to developer David Kennon and architect Paschal Mahoney. Its going to be called the Greenside Building, more on it here https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/greenside-building-promises-pandemic-proofed-office-solution-1.4378673

Thelonious Monk · 16-10-2020 11:43am

What really bugs me about Dublin is how we allow all of our streets to have cars parked on the footpaths. It's a total free for all outside my house, and it's just getting worse and worse as the years go on, I don't know if more people are buying cars or what. Last time I was visiting my parents in Spain, I didn't see one car on a footpath, not once. They have much higher kerbs and in town centres they have metal bollards on every street so this can't happen. They'll also ticket you if you have so much as a wheel on the footpath.
There is literally no enforcement of this kind of illegal parking in Dublin and it makes the whole place a mess.
If you don't have somewhere to park your car legally, a driveway or car park, you shouldn't be allowed to own one.

Thelonious Monk · 16-10-2020 11:47am

CBear1993 wrote: »

Architects in the city have it handy. The real architects are building fantastic homes in rural Ireland in the countryside.

Is this a joke? Our countryside has been ruined by the ugliest houses imaginable peppered all over the land. Absolutely tasteless monstrosities. It has ruined the country for me.
Here's a funny take on it -

https://mcmansionhell.com/post/157457285986/mcmansion-hell-ireland-edition

Or just look at the property section of thejournal.ie, the most hideous eyesore mansions thrown in the middle of beauty spots, and commenters on the articles going on about how amazing they are. We are just a tasteless crass nation if rural homes or many city buildings are anything to go on.

bb1234567 · 16-10-2020 12:22pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Is this a joke? Our countryside has been ruined by the ugliest houses imaginable peppered all over the land. Absolutely tasteless monstrosities. It has ruined the country for me.
Here's a funny take on it -

https://mcmansionhell.com/post/157457285986/mcmansion-hell-ireland-edition

Or just look at the property section of thejournal.ie, the most hideous eyesore mansions thrown in the middle of beauty spots, and commenters on the articles going on about how amazing they are. We are just a tasteless crass nation if rural homes or many city buildings are anything to go on.

I hope it's a joke but unfortunately a lot of Irish people seem to be fond of the mcmansion aesthetic, otherwise why would so many keep getting built

Thelonious Monk · 16-10-2020 12:27pm

bb1234567 wrote: »

I hope it's a joke but unfortunately a lot of Irish people seem to be fond of the mcmansion aesthetic, otherwise why would so many keep getting built

Yeah that's why I just don't hold any hope for design or planning in Ireland. Cities a mess, countryside a mess, and people carry on doing the same stuff over and over.

bb1234567 · 16-10-2020 12:43pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah that's why I just don't hold any hope for design or planning in Ireland. Cities a mess, countryside a mess, and people carry on doing the same stuff over and over.

I think things are coming on a bit in the urban area's, some taste seems to have recently prevailed. Some great high density mixed use schemes being proposed or under construction around Dublin city centre that will really dramatically enlarge the city centre core and add a lot to the city vibrancy, Dublin Landings springs to mind, and the Charlemont St regenration, and the new Connolly Qyarter and the Player Will's Liberties scheme both look unreal although neither have yet begun.

Cork's also having a bit of a highrise moment and they look like pretty cool contemporary designs that won't age like milk.

Limericks recently had a competition for an entire new city centre district for 10,000 people around the train tracks with some exceptional suggestions from big name architects, Galway's Ceannt quarter will also transform the city's image.

So I think the cities have some hope, although the semi d ocean that surrounds them all has already done so much damage and limits our cities so muhc and is near impossible to correct or improve that situation due to NIMBY's.

Muahahaha · 16-10-2020 1:56pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What really bugs me about Dublin is how we allow all of our streets to have cars parked on the footpaths. It's a total free for all outside my house, and it's just getting worse and worse as the years go on, I don't know if more people are buying cars or what. Last time I was visiting my parents in Spain, I didn't see one car on a footpath, not once. They have much higher kerbs and in town centres they have metal bollards on every street so this can't happen. They'll also ticket you if you have so much as a wheel on the footpath.
There is literally no enforcement of this kind of illegal parking in Dublin and it makes the whole place a mess.
If you don't have somewhere to park your car legally, a driveway or car park, you shouldn't be allowed to own one.

They seem to go for underground car parks a lot on the continent, was in a mates holiday home outside Porto last year and they were ripping the whole town centre up to build a massive underground car park, the council wanted to stop cars parking on public streets. You'll even find underground car parks in the smallest of Italian mountain villages. Same in Croatia, a mate was developing a small block of 12 apartments in Dubrovnik and was complaining that the city council were forcing him to go underground to build a car park otherwise he wasnt getting planning permission, its par for the course out there that the council wont let you build and expect the residents to park on public streets.

Here the car park situation is set to get worse- apartment developers are now commonly only allocating 1.25 spaces per apartment. Many households own two cars so this is going to cause chaos in future years. Car park spaces are already the main cause of all out war between neighbours as it is but this 1.25 allcocation is going to make things even worse. There was a murder in Citywest earlier this year where a mother of three children stabbed to death a man at 8 in the morning in a row over a car park space, absolute mad stuff.

Thelonious Monk · 16-10-2020 2:20pm

Also in Spain many residential streets are one way with parking only allowed on one side. They have completely lost control of illegal parking in Dublin and the council and Garda dont want to know.

Muahahaha · 16-10-2020 2:21pm

More so heritage related than design but fair play to Lidl for preserving Dublins architectural heritage underneath their new store on Aungier Street that opened a couple of days ago. There is two separate displays visible underneath a glass floor, one is the remains of the pit trap from a theater that used to be on site the other the remains of a house dating to the 11th century

Shoppers at a new Lidl store in Dublin will get a unique insight into the city's medieval past.
The remains of an 11th century house are clearly visible beneath a glass section of the floor of the store on Aungier Street in the city centre.
The sunken-floored structure was discovered during excavations of the site, close to Dublin Castle.
"It is a unique structure for Dublin," said Paul Duffy from IAC Archaeology.
"I am sure it functioned as many things. As a house or as an extra space for the family.
"It is a domestic structure so you would have to imagine that there would have been a suburb here of Hiberno-Norse Dubliners who were effectively the ancestors of the Vikings," he added.
The remains of an 11th century house can be seen beneath a glass section of the floor of the store A similar glass panel, near the store's checkouts, showcases an 18th century 'pit trap' associated with the stage workings of the former Aungier Street Theatre.
"It was the device that was used when you wanted an actor to come up and down and appear as if by magic on the stage.
"So we were delighted that such a meaningful part of the theatre was found, recognised and is now presented to the public. I think it's really fantastic that Lidl is displaying it right in front of their tills," said Linzi Simpson, consultant archaeologist on the project.
Information panels and artwork interpreting the remains are also displayed throughout the new store.

Video report here
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1013/1171342-new-lidl-store-gives-shoppers-glimpse-of-dublins-past/

Dublin - The Home Of Poor Design

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