Stores

Donegalforever · 16-11-2019 8:47pm

Base price wrote: »

We have been using agrimin boluses - small trace for calves and all trace for older cattle for years. They work out at about €5.30 for calves and €5.70 for older cattle and they work for 180 days. IMO when you administer a bolus you know that the animal is getting the required minerals/vitamins as opposed to using bagged minerals where individual intake can be hit or miss.

https://www.agrimin.co.uk/all-tracer-cattle-0

I also use Agrimin Boluses and find that they work well.

Dinzee Conlee · 16-11-2019 9:11pm

Donegalforever wrote: »

I also use Agrimin Boluses and find that they work well.

Funny - just yesterday in the sheep forum we were chatting about bolus and people not being very happy with them...

Bass Reeves · 16-11-2019 9:13pm

I sometimes wonder about bolus's and other products like this. A 400kg bullock supposed to get 80 grams/day of minerals will consume 9 kgs over 120 days. It hard to believe that they can condense all this into a bolus that you can give them down the gullet and produce it cheaper than bagged minerals which costs about 6.60 for the same 120 days.

I never worry about cattle getting more one day and less the next over 120 days it will generally balance out.

Cavanjack · 16-11-2019 9:19pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I sometimes wonder about bolus's and other products like this. A 400kg bullock supposed to get 80 grams/day of minerals will consume 9 kgs over 120 days. It hard to believe that they can condense all this into a bolus that you can give them down the gullet and produce it cheaper than bagged minerals which costs about 6.60 for the same 120 days.

I never worry about cattle getting more one day and less the next over 120 days it will generally balance out.

Never feed minerals here. Have you ever fed a pen and not fed another pen to see would you notice the difference at turnout or maybe it’s some that you don’t notice?

squinn2912 · 17-11-2019 12:45am

Cavanjack wrote: »

Never feed minerals here. Have you ever fed a pen and not fed another pen to see would you notice the difference at turnout or maybe it’s some that you don’t notice?

Tried that once. 2 pens got 2 didn’t and asked a salesman to tell them apart. Guess what happened

Bass Reeves · 17-11-2019 1:31am

Cavanjack wrote: »

Never feed minerals here. Have you ever fed a pen and not fed another pen to see would you notice the difference at turnout or maybe it’s some that you don’t notice?

I always notice it in the spring. My cattle cost faster than most other lads do. Not only do they cost faster but generally a they cost cleaner as well. I feed a bit of lime as well. Lime leaches nutrients out of animals so you have to feed minerals as well. However it builds bone on cattle.

A recommendation I got was to withdraw minerals for 2-3 mid winter to let there livers clear out and reintroduce until turnout.

You will never notice difference between pens over the winter. Over 120 days an extra 50-100 grams/ day is 6-12 kgs. It's the thrive after turnout is where you notice it.

I have bought cattle in July this year that were not fully coated.

Waternotsoda · 17-11-2019 2:55pm

OK I'm tending towards outwinter ING some FRX to meet the stocking rate next year. What weight should I buy in at?

cute geoge · 17-11-2019 3:43pm

Work back from when you will be selling ,ideally stores for finishing next winter would need to be minimum 500-550kg ,so lets say 200 kg gain off summer grazing next year ,you would ideally be buying them at as close to 300 kg as you could get value .Factor in you probably would end up squeezing them as well .What price are 250-280kg fr bulls coming into at moment

jfh · 17-11-2019 4:48pm

Would you give weanlings 2 Boluses? How much does that cost? Thanks

Base price · 17-11-2019 5:21pm

jfh wrote: »

Would you give weanlings 2 Boluses? How much does that cost? Thanks

It depends on the manufacturers recommendations vis a vie weigh/age of the animal. I have given an example above of cost per head for the Agrimin boluses that we use but there are other manufacturers selling boluses in Ireland. My advice would be to talk to your local agri store to see what products they sell and work out the cost per head on that basis.

Donegalforever · 17-11-2019 5:31pm

jfh wrote: »

Would you give weanlings 2 Boluses? How much does that cost? Thanks

Your best bet would be to check online the cost of boluses from the various suppliers.

Earlier this year the cheapest supplier of Agrimin Bolus I could find was:

www.FaneValleyStores.com

They will supply to any part of Ireland.

Base price · 17-11-2019 5:45pm

We buy from Animal Farmacy in Oldcastle, Co. Meath -

https://www.animalfarmacy.ie/product-category/ah-li-ca-be-ms/page/2/

jfh · 17-11-2019 5:58pm

Base price wrote: »

We buy from Animal Farmacy in Oldcastle, Co. Meath -

https://www.animalfarmacy.ie/product-category/ah-li-ca-be-ms/page/2/

Just one other thing, do you bolus them going into the house or going out on grass?

Base price · 17-11-2019 6:16pm

jfh wrote: »

Just one other thing, do you bolus them going into the house or going out on grass?

We give Spring born weaned calves boluses when the go out to grass which is weather dependent but normally mid April/early May. They get another set around this time of the year but we try and keep those animals out for as long as possible. I posted a pic a couple of weeks ago in the livestock photo thread of a bunch of FR weanling that have access to a dry bedded shed but can go out to that field for the remainder of the Winter - weather dependent. They will get a nip of rolled oats/barley/maize meal every second day during the winter.

Waternotsoda · 17-11-2019 8:43pm

cute geoge wrote: »

Work back from when you will be selling ,ideally stores for finishing next winter would need to be minimum 500-550kg ,so lets say 200 kg gain off summer grazing next year ,you would ideally be buying them at as close to 300 kg as you could get value .Factor in you probably would end up squeezing them as well .What price are 250-280kg fr bulls coming into at moment

300kg FRX bulls seem to be going above €300. You're talking about winter finishing them?

cute geoge · 17-11-2019 9:03pm

If you are selling after 2nd summer ,there is usually better demand for anything over 500kg as anyone buying should be able to kill out of the shed .A store 400 kg would need to be stored over the winter and might need most of the 3rd summer around before hanging

somofagun · 18-11-2019 1:48pm

In the north here and have 14 stores at the minute which I keep on bedding (long story). Currently paying £40 for 8x4x3 bales of straw but have approx 100 bales of Haylage sitting which I had intended to make into small hay bales but the weather broke. I have enough bales from last year to feed these 14 over the winter and i am thinking of using the haylagh to bed them with as they were only £8/bale. It seems a pity to use it as bedding as it is good stuff but with a bale only lasting approx 10 days it soon adds up.
Anyone done this before.

I buy bull/bullock weanlings @ approx 300kg around April/May time and keep them until the following March but might sell a few around October time if prices are right. Have been doing this for the last 4 years and this year will be the last. Unless you can get all of them at the right money and they are type that don't look like much when you buy but grow into good bullocks it just doesn't pay when you sit down and add all up. I have no slotted house and would love to build one but i just cant justify it. I don't get any SFP as it goes to the ole boy, so was doing it with a stocking loan from the bank.

Bass Reeves · 18-11-2019 2:01pm

somofagun wrote: »

In the north here and have 14 stores at the minute which I keep on bedding (long story). Currently paying £40 for 8x4x3 bales of straw but have approx 100 bales of Haylage sitting which I had intended to make into small hay bales but the weather broke. I have enough bales from last year to feed these 14 over the winter and i am thinking of using the haylagh to bed them with as they were only £8/bale. It seems a pity to use it as bedding as it is good stuff but with a bale only lasting approx 10 days it soon adds up.
Anyone done this before.

I buy bull/bullock weanlings @ approx 300kg around April/May time and keep them until the following March but might sell a few around October time if prices are right. Have been doing this for the last 4 years and this year will be the last. Unless you can get all of them at the right money and they are type that don't look like much when you buy but grow into good bullocks it just doesn't pay when you sit down and add all up. I have no slotted house and would love to build one but i just cant justify it. I don't get any SFP as it goes to the ole boy, so was doing it with a stocking loan from the bank.

If your land was good enough I carry to finish. Anyway back to the straw and haylage. Unless you have someone to buy the haulage at 25-30 a bale I chance bedding with it for 2 weeks to see what way it pans out. Straw is an expensive way of wintering cattle. Is there any lagoon or open sporty pit on the farm. Using a tractor to push dung into that and only bedding part would be an option then. Another option is to put timbers in to hold straw/ bedding in one part and have bare concrete in feed area but again you need some sort of slurry tank.

Anniepower · 08-05-2020 11:45am

How is this going so far bass? Interesting as regards the details you give on costs margins etc. I am thinking of doing something similar in the not too distant future

Bass Reeves · 08-05-2020 12:10pm

Anniepower wrote: »

How is this going so far bass? Interesting as regards the details you give on costs margins etc. I am thinking of doing something similar in the not too distant future

Cattle thriving at present. Need rain at this stage an 1-2inches a week for 3-4 weeks but not looking like coming. Price is the big factor. Hard to see how that will pan out.

Cavanjack · 08-05-2020 1:30pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Cattle thriving at present. Need rain at this stage an 1-2inches a week for 3-4 weeks but not looking like coming. Price is the big factor. Hard to see how that will pan out.

According to the journal prices are up 10 cent this week.

memorystick · 08-05-2020 2:08pm

Grass getting tight but they’re getting 3kgs of ration. You’d want to forget about figures if you’re feeding cattle.

Cavanjack · 08-05-2020 5:10pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Cattle thriving at present. Need rain at this stage an 1-2inches a week for 3-4 weeks but not looking like coming. Price is the big factor. Hard to see how that will pan out.

Are you feeding yet? Was thinking of starting to throw a few kg to bullocks I want gone in mid July in a couple of weeks. They seem to be doing a good thrive as it is.

Bass Reeves · 08-05-2020 6:39pm

Cavanjack wrote: »

Are you feeding yet? Was thinking of starting to throw a few kg to bullocks I want gone in mid July in a couple of weeks. They seem to be doing a good thrive as it is.

Yes I have 20 in a finishing bunch. They are getting 3-4 kgs each. It's as much to say grass as to start finishing. However there are 10-12 that will be in good nick in early June. But being Friesian they be good for another 6-8 weeks after that

tonto8989 · 16-07-2020 10:53am

Bass, just wondering hows the plan going compared to your original/first projection? thanks

Bass Reeves · 16-07-2020 11:54pm

tonto8989 wrote: »

Bass, just wondering hows the plan going compared to your original/first projection? thanks

Middling, so far 13 gone to the factory. I had to unloaded 6 in late May because of drought. They only grosses about 1040 average, got caught on one that was a 2- really annoyed with myself he was a bit of a rig, Agent taught he was ok fact cover, I guessed myself he was not he was in the mid 900's disgusted every day is a school day. Next 4 averaged over 1200 and last 3 averaged just shy of it.

Drought killed me during May and early June. I am really in no hurry finishing this year, have about 15 cattle that will not go over age until October-December. Six CH are putting on the weight they should be in the high 300's DW. Will trickle them away in small numbers from now on. I expect to be near the 1200 average at year end but I am getting worried about autumn store price.

morphy87 · 17-07-2020 12:01am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Middling, so far 13 gone to the factory. I had to unloaded 6 in late May because of drought. They only grosses about 1040 average, got caught on one that was a 2- really annoyed with myself he was a bit of a rig, Agent taught he was ok fact cover, I guessed myself he was not he was in the mid 900's disgusted every day is a school day. Next 4 averaged over 1200 and last 3 averaged just shy of it.

Drought killed me during May and early June. I am really in no hurry finishing this year, have about 15 cattle that will not go over age until October-December. Six CH are putting on the weight they should be in the high 300's DW. Will trickle them away in small numbers from now on. I expect to be near the 1200 average at year end but I am getting worried about autumn store price.

In your opinion why are stores more expensive this year to last? I buy my stores in October maybe September,at current prices if I was to purchase the same weights this year I will be paying around 120 a head more, was talking to a factory agent tonight, he is very quiet, cattle are very scarce at the moment

Bass Reeves · 17-07-2020 12:10am

morphy87 wrote: »

In your opinion why are stores more expensive this year to last? I buy my stores in October maybe September,at current prices if I was to purchase the same weights this year I will be paying around 120 a head more, was talking to a factory agent tonight, he is very quiet, cattle are very scarce at the moment

Numbers are way lower, cattle will get scarce as year goes on

morphy87 · 17-07-2020 12:12am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Numbers are way lower, cattle will get scarce as year goes on

So can you see the factory price ridding more? Why are they so scarce?

Bass Reeves · 17-07-2020 12:44am

morphy87 wrote: »

So can you see the factory price ridding more? Why are they so scarce?

I am not sure about factory prices rising but underage cattle will be scarce for rest of year. 60k less than last year. Heifer kill similar to last year, steer killl 20k higher, 12k less cows killed, young bulls 45k less. With the strike last year and it effect on throughput for August/September, it will be interesting to see how supply holds up

tonto8989 · 17-07-2020 9:39am

thanks Bass for the update.
looking for a few opinions on this or is it a waste of time. not to take the thread of point. I'm reseeding 14acres (in 2 weeks time) but was going to set forage rape and out winter weanlings. want to reseed in spring. But would then need to shift the weanlings in the spring as wouldnt have the grass ahead of them to carry for the summer.
would I stand a chance of buying weanlings this autumn keeping until spring and shifting them then? or is it a waste of time if can't carry through summer? I know depends on store prices etc.

Tomjim · 17-07-2020 10:37pm

Bass just wondering if you would consider summer grazing, would the margin be similar and you wouldn't have any wintering costs?

17-07-2020 11:18pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I am not sure about factory prices rising but underage cattle will be scarce for rest of year. 60k less than last year. Heifer kill similar to last year, steer killl 20k higher, 12k less cows killed, young bulls 45k less. With the strike last year and it effect on throughput for August/September, it will be interesting to see how supply holds up

How bad was the price in the factory last August but probably no worse than now?

Cattle were cheap in the mart then (2018 plain animals like fr bullocks etc).

Having said that the price was probably driven down by the protestors.

How are there so much fewer animals available this year if there was a glut last autumn?

richie123 · 19-07-2020 2:50pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I am not sure about factory prices rising but underage cattle will be scarce for rest of year. 60k less than last year. Heifer kill similar to last year, steer killl 20k higher, 12k less cows killed, young bulls 45k less. With the strike last year and it effect on throughput for August/September, it will be interesting to see how supply holds up

Why is there 60,000 less cattle this year? Plus 60000 is not that significant really it's less than 2 weeks worth of killing in this country so won't make a massive difference to price i would think.

Bass Reeves · 19-07-2020 3:37pm

richie123 wrote: »

Why is there 60,000 less cattle this year? Plus 60000 is not that significant really it's less than 2 weeks worth of killing in this country so won't make a massive difference to price i would think.

The 60k cattle will all be in the prime cattle group that is cattle in the 24-36 month age group. The kill at this stage this year has remained quit strong so it's pushing the reduced numbers into a shorter time window.

The reason for less numbers us the amount of calves and weanlingsexported in 2018. Another factor is the numbers being exported to NI each week at present it about 5-700/ week higher than last year. The number was published by bird via in early May

Anto_Meath · 20-07-2020 9:31am

I would also guess that normal at this time of year 16mt bull beef would be coming on line but that there is far less of that this year after the bad return many finishers got last year. So that would lead to a shortage in supply for many factories.

Bass Reeves · 20-07-2020 10:14am

Anto_Meath wrote: »

I would also guess that normal at this time of year 16mt bull beef would be coming on line but that there is far less of that this year after the bad return many finishers got last year. So that would lead to a shortage in supply for many factories.

Ya bull beef numbers have plummeted running at 50% of last year's numbers about 2k/week. However this may be nearly balanced by steers numbers being slightly up due to less 2 year old bulls last winter.

cute geoge · 20-08-2020 4:14pm

I have some 2 year old store heifers to sell .Looking online would i be right saying prices are up this week .Prices were very strong in july but slipping the last few weeks .Nothing going unsold anyway

20-08-2020 10:48pm

cute geoge wrote: »

I have some 2 year old store heifers to sell .Looking online would i be right saying prices are up this week .Prices were very strong in july but slipping the last few weeks .Nothing going unsold anyway

If going to the factory your biggest problem will be getting them booked in, a lot of factories taking less due to covid cases

Bass Reeves · 21-08-2020 9:59am

Jjameson wrote: »

There’s a few extra weather related cattle being offloaded and that’s good news as they are going to struggle to play silly beggars come a months time/ October.
Whether bass has to give it all back to the store men is another matter but there’s a little turn in cattle this System this system this year thank God.

I try and keep some few bob for myself. I am.leaving marginal lighter cattle go over 30 months. Chasing AA and HE as well as QA on lighter cattle can costs money.

I had a HE bullock April 18 on the card killed 394 kgs last week. He was an R-4=. I do not know how he scraped the R but he did. He netted 1550euro. If I had killed him at 365 as an O+ he have made less than 1400euro euro.

Stores

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