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Maybe I’m being to sensitive?

  • 02-11-2019 12:58am
    #1
    jus_tin4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭


    Hi guys,

    Obviously this isn’t a new arrival but it’s really starting to annoy me how the vegan side is portraying farming.... it’s always in the worse possible light that they try to convey their opinion

    One post I say was all about the valve being taken from it mother and how cruel that is and such, but did they ever think maybe the calf wasn’t been cared for.

    Obviously there will be some places where abuse happens! That the same with all businesses! But I hate the painting of a way of life that Ireland has been born on is being slaughtered...

    I’m all for climate change, but a vegan was ranting about how animals are treated and what they do to the clime while flying on a plane all around America?

    Are people so much involved in their own world that they have no perspective at all...


Comments

  • #2
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,618 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Bit like the rest of society vegans fall into two groups. Those that do their own thing and keep to themselves or the arsehole type who are all mouth and no brains, extremists, fascists actually.

    Veganism is no more in tune with the climate or biodiversity than the farming of animals is.


  • #3
    jus_tin4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭jus_tin4


    _Brian wrote: »
    Bit like the rest of society vegans fall into two groups. Those that do their own thing and keep to themselves or the arsehole type who are all mouth and no brains, extremists, fascists actually.

    Veganism is no more in tune with the climate or biodiversity than the farming of animals is.

    I just find it mad that they completely ignore that if it wasn’t meat that produced to the max that anyone can(hopefully in the best manner possible) with animal welfare in the front, that all this would just turn to try mass produce vegetables.... Irish farms I think are one of the best for animal welfare, it’s our hertitary and history so I would hope we can do the beat for everyone....

    But these vegans and whatever else are just a bit mad imo!
    Have no issue with someone making the choice and just getting I. With life, but it losses me off with all the social media **** without really knowing the truth!

    As I mentioned es I also find it maddening that farmers seem to be getting blamed.... I wonder how many cows have to let off emisión to cover a jet or a manufacturing plant or a oil rig!

    Everyone has a part to play, but blaming one doesn’t solve the issue, it just hides it

    Sorry a bit of a rant!


  • #4
    Base price
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Live and let live is my motto - don't try to shove religious, moral/ethical beliefs down another's throat.


  • #5
    riemann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    For a start it's 'too'.

    Branding farmers as thick uneducated morons is a favoured tactic.

    I am aware the poster could be a plant(!).


  • #6
    Base price
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    riemann wrote: »
    For a start it's 'too'.

    Branding farmers as thick uneducated morons is a favoured tactic.

    I am aware the poster could be a plant(!).
    Reckon so after viewing this other thread that OP posted on F&F shortly after ;)

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111664275&postcount=1


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  • #7
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,618 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    jus_tin4 wrote: »
    I just find it mad that they completely ignore that if it wasn’t meat that produced to the max that anyone can(hopefully in the best manner possible) with animal welfare in the front, that all this would just turn to try mass produce vegetables.... Irish farms I think are one of the best for animal welfare, it’s our hertitary and history so I would hope we can do the beat for everyone....

    But these vegans and whatever else are just a bit mad imo!
    Have no issue with someone making the choice and just getting I. With life, but it losses me off with all the social media **** without really knowing the truth!

    As I mentioned es I also find it maddening that farmers seem to be getting blamed.... I wonder how many cows have to let off emisio cover a jet or a manufacturing plant or a oil rig!

    Everyone has a part to play, but blaming one doesn’t solve the issue, it just hides it

    Sorry a bit of a rant!


    No more than every farmer is a thick uneducated moron not every vegan goes about shouting from the roof tops about it nor abusing farmers either.

    I think it’s important to acknowledge that.

    The extremists are a different matter and their fascist rhetoric needs to be called out each time for what it it, much of it borders on hate speech against farmers. We do need to look closer to home and call out farmers who don’t farm to the appropriate standards though, they just give these extremists a stick to beat us with.

    Some of what is talked about I would agree with.
    I don’t like caged chicken farming.
    Intensive pig units
    Permanently housing of cows
    Live shipment of calves/cattle isn’t great animal welfare either, videos of failures in the system are all too common.

    But the alternative is good animal farming not no animal farming.


  • #8
    crunambo
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭crunambo


    Wha do you mean by “I’m all for climate change”???


  • #9
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    A Friend of mine who went down a strong vegan road for a year or so, we both had reasonably civil and interesting conversions about the whole topic in fairness. He knew his stuff about nutrition, and he made a good effort to balance out anything he was lacking in the vegan diet etc, however that didn't stop him eventually shedding 10kg or so that he didn't hugely have to shed, he started back with eggs 1stly, then scrapped the whole vegan diet fully. And he admitted to me afterwards that he found his old vegan community (which was part of his work also) extremely unsupporting at the time, and it was a near cult alike exit for him, that it defo wasn't the vegan diet, instead other issues with him etc etc.

    So yep I don't see the whole thing as much more than a cult, I'll happily have a civil argument with whoever of why I certainly don't agree with any sort of strict vegan diet, instead I'll always encourage the other people to go study the facts, and form theirown world/environment opinions rather than latching onto bandwagons like veganism at the min.


  • #10
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,767 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    crunambo wrote: »
    Wha do you mean by “I’m all for climate change”???

    Ah it's just probably Leo Varadkar buttering up the electorate for the elections..:pac:


  • #11
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,618 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Timmaay wrote: »
    A Friend of mine who went down a strong vegan road for a year or so, we both had reasonably civil and interesting conversions about the whole topic in fairness. He knew his stuff about nutrition, and he made a good effort to balance out anything he was lacking in the vegan diet etc, however that didn't stop him eventually shedding 10kg or so that he didn't hugely have to shed, he started back with eggs 1stly, then scrapped the whole vegan diet fully. And he admitted to me afterwards that he found his old vegan community (which was part of his work also) extremely unsupporting at the time, and it was a near cult alike exit for him, that it defo wasn't the vegan diet, instead other issues with him etc etc.

    So yep I don't see the whole thing as much more than a cult, I'll happily have a civil argument with whoever of why I certainly don't agree with any sort of strict vegan diet, instead I'll always encourage the other people to go study the facts, and form theirown world/environment opinions rather than latching onto bandwagons like veganism at the min.


    Veganism is a moral decision based on their personal viewpoint and not based on the best nutritional diet for humans, its not what is best for biodiversity or climate either.

    I respect the decision, as long as Vegans respect my decision to farm animals and consume animal products..



    Thats the key, respect has to be shown in both directions.


    They can't expect respect for their decision if they go about bad mouthing farmers, good farming practice or anyone who isnt Vegan.


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  • #12
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    riemann wrote: »
    For a start it's 'too'.

    Branding farmers as thick uneducated morons is a favoured tactic.

    I am aware the poster could be a plant(!).

    Why would a plant be using a forum. They are more likely to be in a field somewhere.

    I'll get my wellies :)


    For the record. I think the only way to solve the vegan problem is to give them a nice T bone :D


  • #13
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    I got duped into watching gamechangers on Netflix last night, its advertised as sports nutrition however its just pure vegan propaganda. Anyways there is a "scientific study" half way though where 3 professional sports athletes are fed a meat supper, that night they have the strength and duration of their erections measured that nights sleep hahaha, the next evening they are feed a plant based supper, and same measurements again, and wow its a miracle their boners are 10% stronger and last 300% longer hahaha. How on earth are people gullible enough to fall for that sort of fake science.


  • #14
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Let's not be laughing at vegans..... They're people too....... I think :)


  • #15
    Neddyusa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Neddyusa


    Timmaay wrote: »
    I got duped into watching gamechangers on Netflix last night, its advertised as sports nutrition however its just pure vegan propaganda. Anyways there is a "scientific study" half way though where 3 professional sports athletes are fed a meat supper, that night they have the strength and duration of their erections measured that nights sleep hahaha, the next evening they are feed a plant based supper, and same measurements again, and wow its a miracle their boners are 10% stronger and last 300% longer hahaha. How on earth are people gullible enough to fall for that sort of fake science.

    :eek:
    :D:D


  • #16
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,567 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Might be true... Probably bollocks...
    But it is hard work digesting a large amount of meat... I do know a girl who won't eat meat the day before a competition, cos"it slows her down"
    , if I have a large steak late at night I'll wake up in the middle of the night sweating...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #17
    grassroot1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    Timmaay wrote: »
    I got duped into watching gamechangers on Netflix last night, its advertised as sports nutrition however its just pure vegan propaganda. Anyways there is a "scientific study" half way though where 3 professional sports athletes are fed a meat supper, that night they have the strength and duration of their erections measured that nights sleep hahaha, the next evening they are feed a plant based supper, and same measurements again, and wow its a miracle their boners are 10% stronger and last 300% longer hahaha. How on earth are people gullible enough to fall for that sort of fake science.
    Of course vegan erections last longer sure they don't have the energy for sex feckin erection would last till their blood anemia cuts in.:D


  • #18
    memorystick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭memorystick


    Do vegans use pest control and if they do then what methods?


  • #19
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,618 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Might be true... Probably bollocks...
    But it is hard work digesting a large amount of meat... I do know a girl who won't eat meat the day before a competition, cos"it slows her down"
    , if I have a large steak late at night I'll wake up in the middle of the night sweating...

    My eldest is very careful in the days up to major competition. Not regarding meat specifically but the energy required to digest food is significant, proteins in particular are slow and hard to digest, thus are good before drinking as the stay there and block alcohol absorption or at least slow it.


  • #20
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Timmaay wrote: »
    I got duped into watching gamechangers on Netflix last night, its advertised as sports nutrition however its just pure vegan propaganda. Anyways there is a "scientific study" half way though where 3 professional sports athletes are fed a meat supper, that night they have the strength and duration of their erections measured that nights sleep hahaha, the next evening they are feed a plant based supper, and same measurements again, and wow its a miracle their boners are 10% stronger and last 300% longer hahaha. How on earth are people gullible enough to fall for that sort of fake science.

    Wasn't Yussein Bolt's legendary activities both on and off the track powered by chicken nuggets??:D:pac:


  • #21
    ganmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Wasn't Yussein Bolt's legendary activities both on and off the track powered by chicken nuggets??:D:pac:

    Not really meat though are they :P


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  • #22
    Pinsnbushings
    Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Pinsnbushings


    Timmaay wrote: »
    I got duped into watching gamechangers on Netflix last night, its advertised as sports nutrition however its just pure vegan propaganda. Anyways there is a "scientific study" half way though where 3 professional sports athletes are fed a meat supper, that night they have the strength and duration of their erections measured that nights sleep hahaha, the next evening they are feed a plant based supper, and same measurements again, and wow its a miracle their boners are 10% stronger and last 300% longer hahaha. How on earth are people gullible enough to fall for that sort of fake science.

    I watched that the weekend myself after hearing 4 of the younger lads at work talking about it and how they were going to cut down on meat because of it.. Some of there friends are going vegan.. Now these lads are all rural lads working a physical job and playing sports so not your typical vegan or climate activists which made me stand up and take notice. I can see how young lads would be convinced by it especially if they have no vested interest in farming.

    Same thing with all these climate programmes on rte this week its being presented as fact that meat and dairy is bad without dispute.. They replaced dairy with almond milk tonight, meat with more fruit and veg including mangoes and peppers all imported.. Like are they right I don't know my facts well enough but surely to god there is a huge carbon footprint in growing nuts to make milk, packing and shipping all over the world.. Likewise veg they claimed was better because of all the fertilisers used to grow grass to feed to animals but I doubt all these imported veg are organic..
    I really feel the farming lobby needs to wake up and start getting the counter arguments out there.. Start by informing us farmers of the facts instead of the rubbish leaflets sent out every month by teagasc.. Where's our netflix docs, YouTube videos, that's where the battleground is not standing outside factories..


  • #23
    wrangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Pinsnbushings wrote: »
    I watched that the weekend myself after hearing 4 of the younger lads at work talking about it and how they were going to cut down on meat because of it.. Some of there friends are going vegan.. Now these lads are all rural lads working a physical job and playing sports so not your typical vegan or climate activists which made me stand up and take notice. I can see how young lads would be convinced by it especially if they have no vested interest in farming.

    Same thing with all these climate programmes on rte this week its being presented as fact that meat and dairy is bad without dispute.. They replaced dairy with almond milk tonight, meat with more fruit and veg including mangoes and peppers all imported.. Like are they right I don't know my facts well enough but surely to god there is a huge carbon footprint in growing nuts to make milk, packing and shipping all over the world.. Likewise veg they claimed was better because of all the fertilisers used to grow grass to feed to animals but I doubt all these imported veg are organic..
    I really feel the farming lobby needs to wake up and start getting the counter arguments out there.. Start by informing us farmers of the facts instead of the rubbish leaflets sent out every month by teagasc.. Where's our netflix docs, YouTube videos, that's where the battleground is not standing outside factories..

    Is there any counter arguments, Farmers are too busy fighting among them selves now, you see what goes on here, they seem to have made a conscious effort to undermine our only lobby group as well as Bord Bia....... They're certainly not going to be any help to them. As I said, farmers are author of their own demise now, sad again.


  • #24
    amacca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,104 ✭✭✭amacca


    there seems to be a big issue with how ag emissions are calculated ...their accuracy/validity......does farming get any credit for sequestration, are hedgerows included, is farming here charged for maize etc grown intensively in other countries where slash and burn is used? .... if farming went more extensive here (which Im thinking of doing for ecomomic reasons) would any credit be given for that?

    as an aside will the max production at any costs food harvest 2020 foodwise pricks and their ilk bear any responsibility or any costs for their either greed or shortsightedness....they hold themselves up as the "experts" yet I wouldn't trust them to run a piss up in a fully stoked unsupervised brewery with no security system........its not right the agenda they push doesn't have consequences for them imo

    there also seems to be an issue with a majority of people not realising how damaging and destructive it would be to the environment if everyone switched to a plant based diet


  • #25
    davidk1394
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,173 ✭✭✭davidk1394


    Pinsnbushings wrote: »
    I watched that the weekend myself after hearing 4 of the younger lads at work talking about it and how they were going to cut down on meat because of it.. Some of there friends are going vegan.. Now these lads are all rural lads working a physical job and playing sports so not your typical vegan or climate activists which made me stand up and take notice. I can see how young lads would be convinced by it especially if they have no vested interest in farming.

    Same thing with all these climate programmes on rte this week its being presented as fact that meat and dairy is bad without dispute.. They replaced dairy with almond milk tonight, meat with more fruit and veg including mangoes and peppers all imported.. Like are they right I don't know my facts well enough but surely to god there is a huge carbon footprint in growing nuts to make milk, packing and shipping all over the world.. Likewise veg they claimed was better because of all the fertilisers used to grow grass to feed to animals but I doubt all these imported veg are organic..
    I really feel the farming lobby needs to wake up and start getting the counter arguments out there.. Start by informing us farmers of the facts instead of the rubbish leaflets sent out every month by teagasc.. Where's our netflix docs, YouTube videos, that's where the battleground is not standing outside factories..

    Hit the nail on the head. After watching the programme I couldn't believe what the dietician was saying, if you look up his name his a vegan activist. I met up with friends this evening, their all from a rural background and the main topic of discussion was climate change and veganism. We need now more than ever, good PR. People who can fight our corner using facts and figures without the need of twine to hold up their pants or chewing on a stalk of straw. We're a minority in the country and the world, we're the easy target now. We have to fight for our survival and our right to farm the way we see fight inside the parameters already set by the great EU. We're the easy target, not the holiday abroad, the excessive clothes shopping or big gas guzzling jeeps that people drive around for status instead of use.


  • #26
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    davidk1394 wrote: »
    Hit the nail on the head. After watching the programme I couldn't believe what the dietician was saying, if you look up his name his a vegan activist. I met up with friends this evening, their all from a rural background and the main topic of discussion was climate change and veganism. We need now more than ever, good PR. People who can fight our corner using facts and figures without the need of twine to hold up their pants or chewing on a stalk of straw. We're a minority in the country and the world, we're the easy target now. We have to fight for our survival and our right to farm the way we see fight inside the parameters already set by the great EU. We're the easy target, not the holiday abroad, the excessive clothes shopping or big gas guzzling jeeps that people drive around for status instead of use.

    RTE need to be taken to task for this type of tabloid TV. As far as I'm aware they are supposed to provide a balance of views in their programming. Instead we have RTE employing an UK plant food activist as a nutrition guide for these programmes which on the face of it is little different to only interviewing the DUP about politics.

    They've even put up a planetary diet guide by the same eejit which is entirely plant based and which includes well known food grown here such as Yams and Chickpeas - but bizarrely not even following the reductionist promotion of eating less meat etc of the now debunked Lancett EAT planetary diet.

    And the problem with these rubbish partisan programmes? We are paying for RTE to make these programmes and paying participants €2000 a pop for going along with the bs.


  • #27
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Timmaay wrote: »
    I got duped into watching gamechangers on Netflix last night, its advertised as sports nutrition however its just pure vegan propaganda. Anyways there is a "scientific study" half way though where 3 professional sports athletes are fed a meat supper, that night they have the strength and duration of their erections measured that nights sleep hahaha, the next evening they are feed a plant based supper, and same measurements again, and wow its a miracle their boners are 10% stronger and last 300% longer hahaha. How on earth are people gullible enough to fall for that sort of fake science.

    Supposedly James Cameron has $140 million invested in a pea protein company in America. Might be a little biased...


  • #28
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,618 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    davidk1394 wrote: »
    Hit the nail on the head. After watching the programme I couldn't believe what the dietician was saying, if you look up his name his a vegan activist. I met up with friends this evening, their all from a rural background and the main topic of discussion was climate change and veganism. We need now more than ever, good PR. People who can fight our corner using facts and figures without the need of twine to hold up their pants or chewing on a stalk of straw. We're a minority in the country and the world, we're the easy target now. We have to fight for our survival and our right to farm the way we see fight inside the parameters already set by the great EU. We're the easy target, not the holiday abroad, the excessive clothes shopping or big gas guzzling jeeps that people drive around for status instead of use.

    He’s a “researcher in population health” not a dietician. He’s also a prominent vegan activist so no matter what he was only ever going to give one message no matter what the question was.
    Like the old saying, “when your a hammer, everything is a nail”

    While dieticians advocate eating less meat in relation to current consumption they do not recommend excluding either meat or dairy from the general populations diet.


  • #29
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    wrangler wrote: »
    Is there any counter arguments, Farmers are too busy fighting among them selves now, you see what goes on here, they seem to have made a conscious effort to undermine our only lobby group as well as Bord Bia....... They're certainly not going to be any help to them. As I said, farmers are author of their own demise now, sad again.

    The problem is our lobby is burying their head in the sand. All IFA candidates saying derogation has to be protected at all costs.
    The more they dig in over points like that the more all farmers are opened up to being undermined by environmental groups.


  • #30
    Mooooo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    Supposedly James Cameron has $140 million invested in a pea protein company in America. Might be a little biased...

    Looking to coin it off the "saving the world" rhetori, same as most of them


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  • #31
    wrangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    The problem is our lobby is burying their head in the sand. All IFA candidates saying derogation has to be protected at all costs.
    The more they dig in over points like that the more all farmers are opened up to being undermined by environmental groups.

    It all could be indefensible, The president will have very little say, I laughed when everyone thought that Joe Healy would save the west, they have nearly no say, The president needs to be articulate and think on their feet with the media and as far as I'm concerned Joe delivered that.


  • #32
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    wrangler wrote: »
    It all could be indefensible, The president will have very little say, I laughed when everyone thought that Joe Healy would save the west, they have nearly no say, The president needs to be articulate and think on their feet with the media and as far as I'm concerned Joe delivered that.

    Who has the say?


  • #33
    Welding Rod
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭Welding Rod


    I went out for breakfast with a visiting group there last month. Some of them were waffling away about the fact that they are saving the planet by eating more veg stuff and cutting down on meat.
    Anyway, I said I’d try this veggi breakfast that was on the menu. Just to try it out .... being open minded and all of that .... tipping ones hat to the educated ones ...

    Anyway, it tasted quite good actually. But jazuz, I was hanging with hunger two hours before my dinner, and it wasn’t as if I was working too hard that particular day.
    This veggi lark, is no fudging good to a big frame of a lad, with a need for fuel to keep the thing ticking over.
    Maybe them half hungry weeds, faffing around on surfboards and such, can get away with it, but I certainly couldn’t. Mullockers have to fed too you know...


  • #34
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,618 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    The problem as I see it with the extremist vegan side is by their nature they are a group made up of an age profile 16-25.
    They are pure idealists because of their lack of exposure to the real world amd nn need to make any real world decisions, most likely still living under the roofs of parents who overindulged them.

    Anyway. This group are absolutely dominating the discussion across social media, it’s their platform, any reply is lost, by the time a reply is formulated by representative groups the original message has been retweeted round the globe, made the news, been believed and accepted as fact, the reply is so late it looks like sour grapes.

    What is also happening, and this is more insidious. Big business is seeing them for the cash cow tie vegan movement represents. Churning out paid for science results to further give them ammunition to spread. But big business is readying them for milking. They represent a massive potential market, a business investment.

    If you speak to any long term vegan say in their 40’s you get a different message. Yes they have their position on animal farming but are far less likely to be obnoxious about it, they seem to have much more of an opinion that they do what they do and they don’t really care about the rest of us.


  • #35
    wrangler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    Who has the say?

    Commodity commitees that have a rep from every county make up the policy for that commodity, be it livestock, dairy or whatever, which is then passed by National Executive also with at least one rep from every county,
    Angus woods decision not to support the protest would have to be supported by all the county reps on his commitee.


  • #36
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    _Brian wrote: »
    The problem as I see it with the extremist vegan side is by their nature they are a group made up of an age profile 16-25.
    They are pure idealists because of their lack of exposure to the real world amd nn need to make any real world decisions, most likely still living under the roofs of parents who overindulged them.

    Anyway. This group are absolutely dominating the discussion across social media, it’s their platform, any reply is lost, by the time a reply is formulated by representative groups the original message has been retweeted round the globe, made the news, been believed and accepted as fact, the reply is so late it looks like sour grapes.

    What is also happening, and this is more insidious. Big business is seeing them for the cash cow tie vegan movement represents. Churning out paid for science results to further give them ammunition to spread. But big business is readying them for milking. They represent a massive potential market, a business investment.

    If you speak to any long term vegan say in their 40’s you get a different message. Yes they have their position on animal farming but are far less likely to be obnoxious about it, they seem to have much more of an opinion that they do what they do and they don’t really care about the rest of us.

    That description of the 16-25yr olds, its basically the exact definition of polarisation. And for anyone who works with young people, the message you should be trying to get across is to stay open minded, have a healthy level of scepticalism, and do yourown research on it (and ignore fake bias research, this is why the whole peer review system is so important), with all fads you'll spot holes in them very quickly by doing your own research. That's all a much more useful life skill to get across to them rather than even bothering to be anyway confrontational with them against their current beliefs.


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  • #37
    Pinsnbushings
    Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Pinsnbushings


    No point in farmers being confrontational or whinging because the general public don't believe or care as far i can see.. During the blockade I heard several farmers saying when interviewed "we have to be allowed to make a living" or similar.. Why? We need to get the public on our side and I don't think people commuting 4 hours a day and paying exorbitant rents buy that attitude..
    I think we need to justify our existance and we may have to adapt the way we do things even if we hold onto the derogation this time it's only kickings things down the road.. Like lads have said above I have little faith in the teagasc blueprint of the heavily stocked, max nitrogen, reseeding, dairy cows, get rid of sucklers, plant the west etc. Is the way forward. And if the latest "we never thought of the calves" debacle is anything to go by, they will wash there hands of the whole thing if it really goes wrong leaving us eejits holding the baby again.
    But I do believe if we do things right we can produce top class food and farm in harmony with the environment but as the op says its very 1 sided at the moment.


  • #38
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,618 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    We will soon reach peak vegan propaganda on beef and dairy. There are two great things on our side;

    Good meat tastes amazing and the general public love it, amd love lots of it.

    The general public have short memories and shorter attention spans, they will move on from this current vegan lead push to control them. More than 80% of people who become vegans return to a Normal diet within a year.


  • #39
    Pinsnbushings
    Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Pinsnbushings


    _Brian wrote: »
    We will soon reach peak vegan propaganda on beef and dairy. There are two great things on our side;

    Good meat tastes amazing and the general public love it, amd love lots of it.

    The general public have short memories and shorter attention spans, they will move on from this current vegan lead push to control them. More than 80% of people who become vegans return to a Normal diet within a year.

    Hopefully that's the case, probably being a bit over pessimistic as is my nature.


  • #40
    jus_tin4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭jus_tin4


    _Brian wrote: »
    We will soon reach peak vegan propaganda on beef and dairy. There are two great things on our side;

    Good meat tastes amazing and the general public love it, amd love lots of it.

    The general public have short memories and shorter attention spans, they will move on from this current vegan lead push to control them. More than 80% of people who become vegans return to a Normal diet within a year.

    Cant waiting until someone actually bring out a documentary thats actually based on fact regarding the whole vegan ****e.

    I dont think any farmer would say that we have no part to play in climate change, but would have a serious issue with the vegan perception that farming is the main thing.

    Vegans seem to want to make this a moral issue at the root of it... fact is it not... its a international issue... governments have no problem not reducing the amount for flights that go out, or the amount of pollution pharma/technological industries are doing. Blame the the sector with the weakest hold on the general population and this day and age in Ireland that it mostly farming.

    if only vegans spent as much time campaigning for better health care, a relastic way to produce energy we might actually get a solution..


  • #41
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    jus_tin4 wrote: »

    I dont think any farmer would say that we have no part to play in climate change, but would have a serious issue with the vegan perception that farming is the man thing.

    I find this flowchart, from the world resources institute very useful to highlight this point, its more like 5% (Livestock and manures).


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  • #42
    jus_tin4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭jus_tin4


    Timmaay wrote: »
    I find this flowchart, from the world resources institute very useful to highlight this point, its more like 5% (Livestock and manures).

    I wonder to vegan not realise that the fertilizer used for intensive farming of livestock(im sure they claim that where it most used) will realise that fertiliser wil have to be used on the magic foods


  • #43
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,618 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    jus_tin4 wrote: »
    I wonder to vegan not realise that the fertilizer used for intensive farming of livestock(im sure they claim that where it most used) will realise that fertiliser wil have to be used on the magic foods

    Many don’t care, particularly the loud mouthpieces

    They would see the population starve as long as they got a stop to animal farming.


  • #44
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,911 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Timmaay wrote: »
    I find this flowchart, from the world resources institute very useful to highlight this point, its more like 5% (Livestock and manures).

    Thanks for that. I've been looking for a chart like this for ages.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • #45
    kerryjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    You are being over sensetive. It's there choice to eat meat or not and it's gone full circle. Over production and selling it too cheap is the problem here. When we were young a roast chicken was a special dinner now it's so cheap, same as steak, every day stuff now. Humans are the same as any other machine work them hard and they need the fuel. A lot of these vegans are pen pushers and never done a hard day's work in there life and more power to them, hard work is over rated. Fire and cooking and eating meat was the difference between us and other animals, our brains got bigger and we became top of the food chain. so if you see a monkey cooking a steak you better watch out.


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