Ecstasy "not actually harmful" ... row erupts

KdjaCL · 03-09-2002 1:14am

I also agree with Shinji on this basicaly it all comes down to 1 thing.

1 Do you know what you are taking???

The people who took these tablets and died knew what they were taking it was not like the choked on a sweet they knew full well that it was illegal and allegdley dangerous.

I used to take E every weekend the most i took in one night was 7 but by this stage they were crap and the content had been diluted ,when i 1st started taking them they were £25 each and full of MDMA "Mad B@stards or White Doves " was there name.

I knew exactly what i was doing and exactly what i was taking.
If i knew what to do whilst on them over 11 years ago im sure the information i got was available for everyone.

I havent taken any in about 2/3 years.
I personally dont know anyone who died from but did see people die from them one died in Dame Street outside Sides a few years ago he was "unfit and running a marathon".
Another in The Asylum off O Connell Street.
Shinji is correct is the way he puts it .

Kdja

seamus · 03-09-2002 10:36am

IMO, the fear about ecstasy all comes from the suddenness of deaths from it. We say 72 people have died from ecstasy, but in the same period thousands have died from alcohol related illnesses. I think the difference here is that people know why the alcohol kills - ie it's a slow process (normally) from alcohol abuse, and as such people know that it is preventable, and curable. The fact that people are known to have died after just 1 E, scares parents, because they know that if their child goes out and does this only once there is a chance (however small) that the child will die, and there is nothing the parent can do about it. The same cannot (technically) be said for alcohol though.

We all know that the media, particularly the british, will scaremonger when it comes to illegal substances, or at the very least they'll always side with popular opinion. As others here have said, very few, if any, tabs are cut with rat poison, and at the end of the day, dealers don't want to be killing customers. Yet the discovery of one or two in Britain would cause media frenzy. On the night Leah Betts died, you can be sure there were 20 others who died from alcohol poisoning or other drink-related reasons, yet they didn't make the headlines because alcohol is legal.

I'm not saying E should be legalised, but as they say, knowledge is power, so we should educate kids on what every drug does to you (ie what the high is like), and on how to act while under it's influence (eg drinking the correct amount of fluids on E). If drugs are presented in an objective light, then kids can make their own decisions without being swayed by the opinion of their school/parents. 'Cause we all know, that if a school says "This is really bad! Don't do it!" The kids will be all the more enticed to go out and do it.

[I've never done E and don't intend to. I have a quite a strict 'no pills unless I need them' rule

]

Mailman · 03-09-2002 10:44am

The person I know died directly as a result of taking E, his (weak)heart giving out on him and not by dancing until he dropped. I did not find out what happened to him by reading a newspaper.

Those who disagree with me have only seen the positive aspects of taking ecstasy. To make a decision on any subject you must acquaint yourself with both the pros and cons to the discussion. The majority of you are discounting the cons because you have had no practical experience of them.

My opinions haven't been formed by the scaremongering of tabloids or the establishment or conversely by what is considered acceptable in youth counter culture.

Your peanut coated silver bullet has nothing to do with the subject and you know it so don't bring it into the argument.
Nuts are a foodstuff, just like milk which isn't good for those who are lactose intolerant. Ecstasy is a recreational drug which is of no nutritional benefit to anyone.

Shinji, I really don't get your point about facts and opinions. I know as a matter of fact that E killied someone. That is not opinion. Shinji all your are presenting are your opinions and your using some research which doesn't reach definitive conclusions to back it up. I've got a tombstone and bodycount to back up my position.
Shinji, I'm not trying to score points on you so I don't understand why you are trying to discount my arguements so agressively.
I also understand why people feel stongly about the subject - at present society criminalises a large proportion of it's youth solely becuase they use this drug but the drug is dangerous to a small proportion of society and that they do need to be protected.
Shinji, I am not a doctor or scientist reasarching the area but I have armed myself with facts, not conjecture about my experiences of Ecstasy. Have you? According to your profile your areas of experience are writing about games and being paid for it. So, do you have any skills or practical experience of the negative aspects of Ecstasy that make you better qualified to comment on the matter than those who disagree with you.

Now, I really am out of here.

deco · 04-09-2002 6:54pm

Just a point....but you said your friends weak heart gave out...

Was that more of a factor than the e?

I know a guy who died when his heart gave out after drinking alcohol...

Not that I'm condoning it or anything...just wondering is all.

Trojan · 04-09-2002 9:44pm

I agree with Seamus (good post) and Shinji, and also would like to see Deco's question answered by Mailman.

(Guess I better say that for the record I've never taken E)

Anyone with a possible heart problem, and who also takes E, or drinks seriously (binge drinks), or exercises to extreme, is just plain dumb. More than dumb in fact. All of these 3 things are fatal.

Lets ban exercise - it may kill you!

I guess the question is, "do you know if you have a possible heart problem?".

Above all, be educated, rational, and don't listen to the opinions of a couple of Sunday rags, or hot-headed and/or emotional people posting here.

Shad0r · 04-09-2002 10:13pm

Basically, what Shinji said.

Using the "I know someone who died from it so its bad" argument just dosent sell in a discussion based on scientific facts.

I would LOVE (and I mean that genuinely out of curiosity) to hear from the people who "know someone who died from E" (especially you Mailman) on what the doctors officially pronounced the people as dying from?

Mercury_Tilt · 04-09-2002 10:42pm

This post has been deleted.

Helix · 05-09-2002 2:48am

undeniable scientific FACT about ecstacy deaths:

most deaths from ecstacy occur from over hydration or dehydration.

the myth that when youre on E you should drinkn loads and loads of water has probably caused more deaths than anything else related to the drug.

however that study is flawd, as im sure they did all their tests with pure MDMA, as opposed to pills containing MDMA, Ketamine, Amphetamine and LSD cocktails.

fact of the matter is, that they ARE dangerous if you dont know what youre doing or if you are the unlucky one in 4million who gets a pill containing something youre allergic to. but theyre not as dangerous as people would ahve us believe.

yes one pill can kill you. because its ecstacy? no, because it contains a filler your body cant hack

anyone wishes to try and defunct my points i wish you luck, coz they cannot be argued with

and on a sidenote, as someone who has taken e before, but doesnt take it any more i dont think it should be made legal or laws around it eased. i do however think that the informaiton should be there for users to ensure they are safe

Helix · 05-09-2002 3:03am

Originally posted by Mailman
I can say what killed him, because I went to the trouble of finding out.

without wishing to put you through any more, i would just like to say that there is absolutely NO chance your friend died from MDMA, as for that to happen he would have to have taken the equivalant of about 30 pills. there is not enough MDMA in ecstacy tablets even slightly endanger someones life. your friend didnt die from ecstacy, he may however have died from something else in the pill.

if you would care to do any research at all, you will find the fatal doseage of MDMA pretty easily on the web, and you will also find the typical doseage in an average pill. and if you are so sure it was DEFINITELY the MDMA that killed him, why did the other few hundred people who took pills containing the same amount of everything from that batch not die too?

logic1 · 05-09-2002 1:40pm

Originally posted by Mailman
I've got a tombstone and bodycount to back up my position.

Simply because your friend died from Ecstasy mis-use doesn't automatically make you an authority on the subject nor does it prove scientific fact wrong. The facts are ecstasy kills a miniscule percentage of users for various reasons, most boiling down to stupidity. I doubt your friend would like their death bandied about so freely as a backup to your arguments on the internet.

Your peanut coated silver bullet has nothing to do with the subject and you know it so don't bring it into the argument.
Nuts are a foodstuff, just like milk which isn't good for those who are lactose intolerant. Ecstasy is a recreational drug which is of no nutritional benefit to anyone.

I advise you to go look up some of the studies currently underway which show MDMA being of considerable benefit to people with Multiple Sclerosis.

One man was totally crippled and after one ecstasy pill could walk and perform all functions of a healthy individual for the 4 or so hours the pill lasted. This again was a scientific experiment and there are many more underway at the moment.

Shinji, I'm not trying to score points on you so I don't understand why you are trying to discount my arguements so agressively.

Because you're wrong.

Shinji, I am not a doctor or scientist reasarching the area but I have armed myself with facts, not conjecture about my experiences of Ecstasy.

Obviously not well enough.

According to your profile your areas of experience are writing about games and being paid for it. So, do you have any skills or practical experience of the negative aspects of Ecstasy that make you better qualified to comment on the matter than those who disagree with you.

Cheap shot.

.logic.

Clintons Cat · 07-09-2002 9:34pm

more properly funded reseach is definately needed.
Preferably through an independant body that does not have a preconcieved "result" in mind when it allocates funding to various research groups.

melachi · 08-09-2002 1:06pm

Alcohol has done more harm than ecstasy, that's a legal substance which most of you people drink.

Please go here: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma.shtml
for PROPER facts.

Helix · 10-09-2002 2:12am

the main problem with all these tests are that theyre done with PURE mdma, which isnt what you get on the street. so until they start testin with pills from the street theyll never be relevant to clubbers

melachi · 10-09-2002 8:23am

True, unless you get an ecstasy tester yourself.
They can pretty much determine if it's MDMA or something else in the pill. Still, even with those you can't be sure what has managed to slip in to the pill as it can't find every substance. What it can detect are the most common ones. These 'tests' usually go for $20 but I doubt that all the crazy rave kids can be bothered spending money on that when they can BUY PILLS!

irishguy · 10-09-2002 2:06pm

I have never taken an E but know quite a few people who have and they all came to the same conclusion that it is safe. The overuse/misuse of anything is bad [not just drugs] if you eat too much fibre, drink too much milk, drink too much water or overuse anything it can be bad for you or even kill you. The worst thing you can do is miss-inform people or even worst not inform them at all. If we tell people that cannabis [the most widely used illegal drug, tried by over 60% of under 25's] is a harmful drug and if they then try it they will realise that they will realise that the information they have been force feed by there parents, schools, anti-drug campaigners etc was false, they will question the information about other stronger more harmful drugs such as heron, speed etc. I am not saying that all drugs should be legal but people should be given correct information and let them decide for themselves. If ecstasy was legalised and its production was controlled it would [in my option] be a safe drug, but I don’t think this will ever happen. What we should do is adopt some of the Dutch ideas, such as: decriminalize cannabis and control how and where it can be used, offer sterilised needles to heroin addicts, offer a service where drugs can be tested free of charge and most off all educate people in the use of drugs give them all the facts [not just the ones you agree with] and let them decide for themselves. This is the only drug policy that will work, it’s obvious that the current policy doesnt, more people die every year and mort people are using harder drugs. Never dismiss something as wrong if you haven’t tried it, then you can form you own options.

Ecstasy "not actually harmful" ... row erupts

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