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Irish Concepts of Urban Living Must Change

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    #122
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Graces7 wrote: »
    I know you don't and you don't have/need to. Just different personalities and characters and needs. To say MUST as in the title?

    We're talking about urban living in Ireland and how it must change. We need high rise, less sprawl, better public transport and focus on walking and cycling. None of this will affect you Grace, you needn't worry!


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    #123
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    We're talking about urban living in Ireland and how it must change. We need high rise, less sprawl, better public transport and focus on walking and cycling. None of this will affect you Grace, you needn't worry!

    Unfortunately i don't think that it will effect any of us as i don't see the car focus changing any time soon


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    #124
    Andrewf20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Intel is a massive factory, not suitable for a city - Shire is a pharmaceutical company, that's probably a factory of some sort too no?

    Yes, Intel is huge alright but if they can set up on the outskirts I cant see why other smaller businesses cant do also. Shire - may have plans to expand also & may want spare space.

    I know people who live in Dublin and work outside and the commute is relatively painless. The N4 in the morning is solid out past Lucan city bound, but going west its almost empty. I would have thought this + potentially lower rents would promote business to move outwards but it doesnt seem to be a big thing.

    I think the business district in Sandyford is a good idea, and it would probably be a reasonable idea to try this model slightly further out as Sandyford is cornered by M50 traffic now too.


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    #125
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Unfortunately i don't think that it will effect any of us as i don't see the car focus changing any time soon

    I agree. There is an upside to the traffic getting worse and worse in that if you cycle to work, it's almost safer when the cars aren't moving at all!


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    #126
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Andrewf20 wrote: »
    Yes, Intel is huge alright but if they can set up on the outskirts I cant see why other smaller businesses cant do also. Shire - may have plans to expand also & may want spare space.

    But they do, there are businesses everywhere. Our flagship multinationals seem to what to be focused in Dublin though mostly!


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    #127
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    We're talking about urban living in Ireland and how it must change. We need high rise, less sprawl, better public transport and focus on walking and cycling. None of this will affect you Grace, you needn't worry!



    There you go again with your " must"!

    I am not worried ; I care about others who feel as I do and have different needs than you. So yes it does concern me and I have the same interest as you do. There need to me more options; if you aver that Dublin " must" have all the firms and all be centralised and all cityfied?

    I had not realise there was such disconnect between urban and rural and so many dire misconceptions about rural!

    In my travels around Ireland it seems that many smaller towns each have a factory, a firm therein for jobs for locals. So it already works that way, A real community .

    Urban centralisation kills community, I saw that in the UK . There is more to life than that. You would make Ireland into what Ireland is not


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    #128
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    We're talking about urban living in Ireland and how it must change. We need high rise, less sprawl, better public transport and focus on walking and cycling. None of this will affect you Grace, you needn't worry!


    Sigh! It does. OK? OK.

    If you mean you think I am "concerned" about being dragged into a city! No I am concerned about this country and its very heart


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    #129
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Graces7 wrote: »
    [/B]

    There you go again with your " must"!

    I am not worried ; I care about others who feel as I do and have different needs than you. So yes it does concern me and I have the same interest as you do. There need to me more options; if you aver that Dublin " must" have all the firms and all be centralised and all cityfied?

    I had not realise there was such disconnect between urban and rural and so many dire misconceptions about rural!

    In my travels around Ireland it seems that many smaller towns each have a factory, a firm therein for jobs for locals. So it already works that way, A real community .

    Urban centralisation kills community, I saw that in the UK . There is more to life than that. You would make Ireland into what Ireland is not

    Urbanisation is not just an Irish trend.


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    #130
    Cina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,387 ✭✭✭Cina


    Graces7 wrote: »
    [/B]

    Sigh! It does. OK? OK.

    If you mean you think I am "concerned" about being dragged into a city! No I am concerned about this country and its very heart
    What on earth are you rambling on about?

    What we're discussing here are already very real issues in Dublin. Housing shortages, public transport overcrowding, lack of infrastructure. These aren't something that will exist in the future unless we decentralize, these already exist, they are already a massive problem. We need solutions to them in Dublin now. It's not a feasible solution to tell people "stop living in Dublin and go move somewhere else".

    But heaven forbid the country loses it's "heart" because we build higher in Dublin and add more public transport!


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    #131
    0lddog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭0lddog


    "Irish Concepts of Urban Living Must Change"

    Reads just like a heading to an Op-Ed piece that would be in The Irish Times.

    Hope nobody will attempt to dox OP


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    #132
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,692 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    For the advocates of 20 storey accommodation blocks plasterd across Dublin. Who/what do you propose be in the shadows such buildings cast, not to mention the wind turbulence and eddies, which pretty much coincide with the shadow direction? I wonder what the pay back period for your new solar panel installation becomes if someone chucks up a 20 storey tower block just to the south of you?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33426889


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    #133
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    cnocbui wrote: »
    For the advocates of 20 storey accommodation blocks plasterd across Dublin. Who/what do you propose be in the shadows such buildings cast, not to mention the wind turbulence and eddies, which pretty much coincide with the shadow direction? I wonder what the pay back period for your new solar panel installation becomes if someone chucks up a 20 storey tower block just to the south of you?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33426889

    May i ask why you oppose high rise in Dublin? Especially as you don't live here, and probably hate the place like most of you rural dwellers.


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    #134
    Greyfox
    Registered Users Posts: 3,722 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    cnocbui wrote: »
    For the advocates of 20 storey accommodation blocks plasterd across Dublin. Who/what do you propose be in the shadows such buildings cast, not to mention the wind turbulence and eddies, which pretty much coincide with the shadow direction?

    Loads of 20 story accommodation blocks in Dublin would be the best thing to happen in Ireland for decades. If someone complained about shadows and the wind I would hope that nobody important listens as affordable homes and less commuting is more important that shadows and the wind.


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    #135
    Andrewf20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    Apartments have their benefits but they are also a right pain in other ways. I doubt many home owner have the appetite for them especially if they have kids. I've lived in apartments and houses and with a young family a regular house is so much handier to live with.

    I reckon there will always be a large market for this style of accommodation. Appartment living will cater more for young professionals without kids I'd say.


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    #136
    FreeThePants
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭FreeThePants


    Cina wrote: »
    What on earth are you rambling on about?

    What we're discussing here are already very real issues in Dublin. Housing shortages, public transport overcrowding, lack of infrastructure. These aren't something that will exist in the future unless we decentralize, these already exist, they are already a massive problem. We need solutions to them in Dublin now. It's not a feasible solution to tell people "stop living in Dublin and go move somewhere else".

    But heaven forbid the country loses it's "heart" because we build higher in Dublin and add more public transport!
    Probably a good post to quote for pointing out that Dublin has the 14th worst traffic congestion, not in Europe but in the world.

    Mumbai, Lima, Bogota, New Dehli, Jakarta, Istanbul, Bangkok, Moscow, St. Petersburg, Recife, Bucharest, Kiev, Mexico City. These are the I kyncities - in the world - with worse congestion than Dublin.

    None of these cities are in economies as developed as Ireland. Dublin has a population of 1.9mn metro. Recife (3.7mn), Kiev (3.3mn) and Bucharest (2.4mn) are close enough in size... the next closest appears to be St. Petersburg at 5.3mn. Most others are over 10mn.

    That is the state of Dublin at the moment, and yet despite routinely coming up near the bottom of 'most boring/overrated major European cities' it is the 8th most expensive city to rent, again not just in Europe but in the entire world. Zurich, Paris and London are the only more expensive cities to rent in Europe.

    The situation is beyond a farce at this point, and I think the vote largely reflects that. We can't afford to sit around letting more and more people go homeless or struggle to get by because we want to protect a "skyline" that isn't even a thing in Dublin or because it was done wrong once, half a century ago. Opinions like the one you quoted are even worse than that, basically calling on people to be driven homeless needlessly so they can feel all nice and fuzzy about the quaint little village they live in, hours and hours away from Dublin.

    Many of the smaller, newer left party votes I would imagine are tied to this, and if this election wasn't a wakeup call, well then the far right populist movement that will follow at some point in the next decade if nothing is done, will.


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    #137
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    maybe the outcome of kicking out ‘lets tax
    your house’ FG is that there may now be questions asked about their casual announcement that they are going to allow a million people to come to live in iIreland in the jext 10 years. Are we to pour cement onto every green space to build tower blocks for this new
    projected population? And how are they supposed to be supported fir schooling/medical needs/ capacity planning on transport etc.

    As regarding the intergenerational ‘could work wont work’ and the self entitled single ‘mothers’ demanding a free house for life beside their ma - first thing first - stamp that entirely out and offload the dublin dregs to compounds and ‘communities’ where their not working & only needing to strool between school and home will be the focal point of their world - I hear theres cheap land, capacity and lovely views and plenty of expansion space for small houses in roscommon/ donefal/longford/leitrim/cavan etc. Some local corner sho wil appreciate the spend of e200 a week on woodbunes, nappies, rollies and tins of beans/bread and cornflakes.

    If those getting houses in the city centre so
    highly subsidised for life they are almost free but who refuse to pay their pittance rent (e200 a month for an2 or 3 bed city appt or house with parking for 2 BMW’s outside) then shunt them off down the boglands too - plenty of space and pubs to subsidise with their dole there and no need to worry about windtunnels. They’ll soon be bleeding from the ears to get back to the city and their nixers.

    Lots of revenue to he earned by sweeping out the generations of dossers and dole scroungers and unworking single mothers in government runnand subsidised city centre appartments and houses - as too to empty 3 bed houses of their singe occupants left remaining and sweep them all out countrywise, do them up if needed and rent them out at business rates to those working nearby so they can walk to work & rent their parking spaces at subsidised rates of e10 a day to those commuting in from unserviced public transport blackspots. Take a lot of people off the road, release government housing stock, provide significant revenue and clean the city of a lot of dossers and junkies and scroungers and revenue cheats working on the back while claiming benefits. The clean air might do them good
    too.

    Whist they’re all down there and recieiving benefits have them work on tree planting schemes to take the bleak, monotonous , boring look off the countryside and do something for the environment, planet and local wildlife and temjnd them of what work is. I’m sure they could dig a few trenches for broadband too while they’re at it.


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    #138
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    jimgoose wrote: »
    I live in/on my own little square of ground in a comfortable, safe suburb of Cork with plenty amenities immediately available, excellent bus links to the city centre and railway station, the mighty South Ring motorway practically coming into the yard and no gowlbags or toolbars around the place. Fcuk yiz all! :D
    Hi South Ring neighbourino! Cork is ideal imo - I'm not doing the stupid "real capital biy" stuff, it's just an easygoing place to live yet it's a city - a small city but still a city so plenty of amenities, yet beautiful countryside and coast a stone's throw away.


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    #139
    Greyfox
    Registered Users Posts: 3,722 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Andrewf20 wrote: »
    I've lived in apartments and houses and with a young family a regular house is so much handier to live with.

    Everyone can't live in a house, we don't have room for houses near the city centre and we can make far better use of space with apartments and apartments near the city centre are guarenteed to sell like hot cakes. If you don't want an apartment you'll have to get a house away from the city centre


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    #140
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Andrewf20 wrote: »
    Apartments have their benefits but they are also a right pain in other ways. I doubt many home owner have the appetite for them especially if they have kids. I've lived in apartments and houses and with a young family a regular house is so much handier to live with.

    I reckon there will always be a large market for this style of accommodation. Appartment living will cater more for young professionals without kids I'd say.

    What are you on about?
    This comes solely down to gross misconception about apartment living and in a way I get it: existing Irish apartments don't cater families too well, the room layouts are crap, there is no external storage, maintenance fees are absolutely ridiculous and the building quality is often so bad that you can hear your upstairs tiptoeing around.

    But that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a focus on making it better. Apartment living as a family works just as well as living in a house if done right. I grew up in apartments, besides my mother who emigrated everyone in my family rents or owns an apartment. My grandparents live in a 100sqm place with 2 bedrooms, my father on his own on 80 with 2 bedrooms. Sister on 65 with 1 bedroom. All of them have external storage (usually basement), good transport links and a car parking space.
    If there would be a solid development of good apartments, sign me up, I'd choose it over a house any day of the week.

    Having been to the continent just recently made me realize how much I miss certain things that don't exist in this form in Ireland. Apartment living, solid public transport and a great cycling infrastructure to name a few. The novelty of being car-bound wears off pretty quickly imo.


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    #141
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Andrewf20 wrote: »
    Apartments have their benefits but they are also a right pain in other ways. I doubt many home owner have the appetite for them especially if they have kids. I've lived in apartments and houses and with a young family a regular house is so much handier to live with.

    I reckon there will always be a large market for this style of accommodation. Appartment living will cater more for young professionals without kids I'd say.

    Depends on the apartments being built. Some apartment complexes can be rather spacious. My girlfriend lives with her parents. It's a four bedroom apartment, with a living room, and two bathrooms. The problem with western apartments is that typically they're not built with a family in mind. Other nations with a longer history with apartments have more variety for those interested.


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