Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Irish Concepts of Urban Living Must Change

Options
  • 10-02-2020 2:02pm
    #1
    MrAbyss
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭


    So many of the people who complain about living in Dublin do not actually live a city life. Nearly all exist in far flung suburbs. So many of the problems of estate life stem from this kind of bland dull environment.

    This is because we have adopted an American style suburban car-based model for Irish urban development. The public transport is a disaster because the 'buses are enough' mantra has created nothing but congestion on roads filled with three hour single occupant car commuters.

    It is time to end all this and go high rise in our urban centers. We need dozens - maybe hundreds of 20 storey+ apartment buildings between the canals in Dublin alone. We need the Metro and DARTunderground yesterday.

    Suburbs don't work unless they have fast rail access to the urban core. They become prisons of mediocrity and boredom. This often manifests into pathological social behavior as 'estate problems'.

    If this new government in Ireland is to mean anything, it must move us away from the 'three bedroom and three hour car commute' failed policies, and instead build up high rise urban cores and put trains underground.


«1345

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    dd973
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dd973


    Or gentrify Sherriff Street and the North and South inner cities and move all the crims, junkies and riff raff out to Saggart and Laytown, decent folk can be allowed to stay.

    Meant half in ironic jest.


  • Options
    #3
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Rightly or wrongly, high rise living is associated with junkies, drugs, unemployment and deprivation. There is no appetite for it in dublin.

    Where is everyone supposed to park their car in high rises? It makes no sense.

    And as for underground trains - lol. Come back to me in 50 years. CIE will never allow it anyway, they will block it.


  • Options
    #4
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    MrAbyss wrote: »
    So many of the people who complain about living in Dublin do not actually live a city life. Nearly all exist in far flung suburbs. So many of the problems of estate life stem from this kind of bland dull environment.

    This is because we have adopted an American style suburban car-based model for Irish urban development. The public transport is a disaster because the 'buses are enough' mantra has created nothing but congestion on roads filled with three hour single occupant car commuters.

    It is time to end all this and go high rise in our urban centers. We need dozens - maybe hundreds of 20 storey+ apartment buildings between the canals in Dublin alone. We need the Metro and DARTunderground yesterday.

    Suburbs don't work unless they have fast rail access to the urban core. They become prisons of mediocrity and boredom. This often manifests into pathological social behavior as 'estate problems'.

    If this new government in Ireland is to mean anything, it must move us away from the 'three bedroom and three hour car commute' failed policies, and instead build up high rise urban cores and put trains underground.

    Lived in Dublin and it was pure sh1te. I dont believe that so many people should be clustered together in such a small place. Living in the shticks now and much happier


  • Options
    #5
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Rightly or wrongly, high rise living is associated with junkies, drugs, unemployment and deprivation. There is no appetite for it in dublin.

    Where is everyone supposed to park their car in high rises? It makes no sense.

    And as for underground trains - lol. Come back to me in 50 years. CIE will never allow it anyway, they will block it.

    This is a silly complaint easily planned for. Three floors of underground parking for 10 floors of apartments. Simple.


  • Options
    #6
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Sure everyone within an asses roar of it any beyond would only object anyway.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Sure everyone within an asses roar of it any beyond would only object anyway.

    Their objections can and should be overruled unless they’re very well founded for the greater good of society.


  • Options
    #8
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Rightly or wrongly, high rise living is associated with junkies, drugs, unemployment and deprivation. There is no appetite for it in dublin.

    Not in any other country (except maybe UK). Junkies and scumbags are junkies/scumbags anyway. We should be dealing with that problem, as a society, regardless of where they live. We need to move away from this idea of "social" housing. Apartment complexes can be lovely when everyone living there is paying with their own money.
    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Where is everyone supposed to park their car in high rises? It makes no sense
    The idea is that you have far fewer cars, as there is little need for them.

    I have happily lived in the city centre for over 10 years without a car. Commutes have always been either a short walk, or a short dart/luas. I use the GoCar for the few times a year I need a car to go out to industrial/retail estates etc. And rent a car the odd time I need to go to the countryside (weddings/weekend away etc).

    In all, it is far, far cheaper than owning and running a car (I reckon I save 4-5K a year by not having a car). And far, far more enjoyable living than being stuck in a car commuting on gridlocked roads.


  • Options
    #9
    careless sherpa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 373 ✭✭careless sherpa


    KiKi III wrote: »
    This is a silly complaint easily planned for. Three floors of underground parking for 10 floors of apartments. Simple.

    Digging too far underground in Dublin is pretty expensive. Ground is soft ... too soft and very wet.


  • Options
    #10
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    dd973 wrote: »
    Or gentrify Sherriff Street and the North and South inner cities and move all the crims, junkies and riff raff out to Saggart and Laytown, decent folk can be allowed to stay.

    Meant half in ironic jest.

    I'm with you on that. That is why I'm in 2 minds about the new "Connolly Quarter" development

    On the one hand, it is the high -rise we need (and a lot more of them).

    On the other hand, the public transport in the area is already over-capacity, but worse than that, with a significant number of apartments being used for "social" and given the neighbourhood, there is a 50-50 chance this could turn in to a dump very quickly.


  • Options
    #11
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    careless sherpa wrote: »
    Digging too far underground in Dublin is pretty expensive. Ground is soft ... too soft and very wet.

    The problem with Ireland is that people are quick to point out problems and slow to seek solutions.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    MrAbyss
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭MrAbyss


    careless sherpa wrote: »
    Digging too far underground in Dublin is pretty expensive. Ground is soft ... too soft and very wet.


    so the Dublin Port Tunnel doesn't exist then?


  • Options
    #13
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,292 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Rightly or wrongly, high rise living is associated with junkies, drugs, unemployment and deprivation. There is no appetite for it in dublin.

    Where is everyone supposed to park their car in high rises? It makes no sense.

    And as for underground trains - lol. Come back to me in 50 years. CIE will never allow it anyway, they will block it.

    Wrongly


  • Options
    #14
    MrAbyss
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭MrAbyss


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Lived in Dublin and it was pure sh1te. I dont believe that so many people should be clustered together in such a small place. Living in the shticks now and much happier




    Good for you. Just don't be expecting people in Dublin to be paying for city-level amenities and utilities right to your one-off house.

    Isolation is a personal choice you made so you can live with the downsides of this.


  • Options
    #15
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,292 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    KiKi III wrote: »
    This is a silly complaint easily planned for. Three floors of underground parking for 10 floors of apartments. Simple.

    There should be hardly any underground spaces. Cars and cities don't mix. Planning for future city centre buildings should not include much more than 10% parking spaces for residents


  • Options
    #16
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Good luck with that planning application. There will be objectors left right and center. But then there will be objectors regarless nomatter what you do.


  • Options
    #17
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,292 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Good luck with that planning application. There will be objectors left right and center. But then there will be objectors regarless nomatter what you do.

    times are changing - private motor cars will soon not be a factor at any level in city center developments


  • Options
    #18
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,717 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    dotsman wrote: »
    I have happily lived in the city centre for over 10 years without a car. Commutes have always been either a short walk, or a short dart/luas. I use the GoCar for the few times a year I need a car to go out to industrial/retail estates etc. And rent a car the odd time I need to go to the countryside (weddings/weekend away etc).

    In all, it is far, far cheaper than owning and running a car (I reckon I save 4-5K a year by not having a car). And far, far more enjoyable living than being stuck in a car commuting on gridlocked roads.

    #MeToo


  • Options
    #19
    caff
    Registered Users Posts: 954 ✭✭✭caff


    Don't even need to go that high. 6 floors is optimum for dublin. Going higher results in higher costs of maintenance and because of the requirements for elevators and fire escapes you don't get any more space.

    High density is the key, you don't have to go high to achieve that.


  • Options
    #20
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    That is all grand saying that but wait till all the complicating factors come into play:
    - the disabled who will, along with their families, be demanding that access for disabled peoples vehicles be maintained. And blue badge holders.
    - business associations will go mad as they will say businesses will close as the lack of cars will impact on footfall and business will be diverted to the out of town places.
    - the elderly and those with children will also be up in arms saying that they are being inconveniences and need it for their own safety, etc,etc.
    - and all these groups will have their campaigners and councillors and TDs under starters orders to campaign to have their requests satisfied.

    What are you going to do then?


  • Options
    #21
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    That is all grand saying that but wait till all the complicating factors come into play:
    - the disabled who will, along with their families, be demanding that access for disabled peoples vehicles be maintained. And blue badge holders.
    - business associations will go mad as they will say businesses will close as the lack of cars will impact on footfall and business will be diverted to the out of town places.
    - the elderly and those with children will also be up in arms saying that they are being inconveniences and need it for their own safety, etc,etc.
    - and all these groups will have their campaigners and councillors and TDs under starters orders to campaign to have their requests satisfied.

    What are you going to do then?

    What are *you* going to go? Apart from pick decent ideas apart? What are your solutions?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    careless sherpa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 373 ✭✭careless sherpa


    MrAbyss wrote: »
    so the Dublin Port Tunnel doesn't exist then?

    It exists alright but wouldn't say it was a cheap tunnel. Digging is not the problem with the drills available. It is keeping the water out is the expensive part


  • Options
    #23
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    KiKi III wrote: »
    What are *you* going to go? Apart from pick decent ideas apart? What are your solutions?

    God forbid that someone pick an idea apart in anticipation of future problems.


  • Options
    #24
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Rightly or wrongly, high rise living is associated with junkies, drugs, unemployment and deprivation. There is no appetite for it in dublin.

    Where is everyone supposed to park their car in high rises? It makes no sense.

    And as for underground trains - lol. Come back to me in 50 years. CIE will never allow it anyway, they will block it.

    There is an appetite. There are dozens of high rises that have very recently gotten planning permission or are going into planning
    Most wont have parking because people living in the city centre do not need to drive


  • Options
    #25
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,852 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    That is all grand saying that but wait till all the complicating factors come into play:
    - the disabled who will, along with their families, be demanding that access for disabled peoples vehicles be maintained. And blue badge holders.

    they don't have to live in these places, young professionals should be the market they're built for
    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    - business associations will go mad as they will say businesses will close as the lack of cars will impact on footfall and business will be diverted to the out of town places.

    F*ck them. Wreck the city with cars because of a few business men, no siree. Also it's proven that banning cars from streets increases business in shops etc.
    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    - the elderly and those with children will also be up in arms saying that they are being inconveniences and need it for their own safety, etc,etc.
    - and all these groups will have their campaigners and councillors and TDs under starters orders to campaign to have their requests satisfied.

    What are you going to do then?

    The elderly and people with children live in high rise all over the world, so this is a moot point.
    TDs and councillors will of course try to stop any kind of development but that's what the problem is with getting stuff done in Ireland.


  • Options
    #26
    completedit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    True Dublin would be so much better. Living in suburbs was fine up until about 21. It was alright after that for a few years but now at this age, it's just so dull. I live in a great part of the world overall, love the nature, the sea but this isn't the life for someone my age. Dublin would be great if it was a truly bustling centre. It's so depressing on Grafton Street at 8pm of a random Tuesday in March.
    I'll never get to experience Dublin like it could and should be. By time anything does come about, Ill have past that point of needing that lifestyle.
    I feel just off the top of my head, that suburban life is good during summer months but during winter it's so gloomy. Especially if you're in the outer suburbs. Areas like Donnybrook, Marino, Clontarf, Ranelagh are perfect


  • Options
    #27
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    careless sherpa wrote: »
    Digging too far underground in Dublin is pretty expensive. Ground is soft ... too soft and very wet.

    This is not the reason.

    The actual reason is that the sewage system in Dublin City Centre is Victorian and is built quite deep, about 150 feet deeper than European sewage systems. You will notice the rancid bang of crap you get when visiting southern European cities in the summer, this is because their sewage is only 50 feet underground, when the rain stops their waste bangs its' way up to street level, not nice.

    The deep system in Dublin means that any underground would need to either go deeper, or they would need to move the sewer closer to the ground..... which would you prefer?


  • Options
    #28
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,768 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    MrAbyss wrote: »
    So many of the people who complain about living in Dublin do not actually live a city life. Nearly all exist in far flung suburbs. So many of the problems of estate life stem from this kind of bland dull environment.

    This is because we have adopted an American style suburban car-based model for Irish urban development. The public transport is a disaster because the 'buses are enough' mantra has created nothing but congestion on roads filled with three hour single occupant car commuters.

    It is time to end all this and go high rise in our urban centers. We need dozens - maybe hundreds of 20 storey+ apartment buildings between the canals in Dublin alone. We need the Metro and DARTunderground yesterday.

    Suburbs don't work unless they have fast rail access to the urban core. They become prisons of mediocrity and boredom. This often manifests into pathological social behavior as 'estate problems'.

    If this new government in Ireland is to mean anything, it must move us away from the 'three bedroom and three hour car commute' failed policies, and instead build up high rise urban cores and put trains underground.

    You go live in your precious high rise, I for one never will.


  • Options
    #29
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    they don't have to live in these places, young professionals should be the market they're built for



    F*ck them. Wreck the city with cars because of a few business men, no siree. Also it's proven that banning cars from streets increases business in shops etc.



    The elderly and people with children live in high rise all over the world, so this is a moot point.
    TDs and councillors will of course try to stop any kind of development but that's what the problem is with getting stuff done in Ireland.

    Are you saying that people with disabilities cannot be young, professionals, or both? That is what you are suggesting. Developments should be accessible and suitable for all people.

    You forget that business people hold serious clout when it comes to things like this and they are a very strong lobby group.

    Likewise the elderly are a very strong group and they are particularly adept at getting on to councillors and TDs and anyone who might have a bit of influence and will listen to them.

    A lot of naivety on this thread.


  • Options
    #30
    MrAbyss
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭MrAbyss


    careless sherpa wrote: »
    It exists alright but wouldn't say it was a cheap tunnel. Digging is not the problem with the drills available. It is keeping the water out is the expensive part


    so all the underground lines in high water areas like Amsterdam, Copenhagen Manhattan and London don't also exist?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,852 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    There are people on these boards who seem to think the country would be a cleaner better place if we all lived in one offs ffs. This is what you're up against.


Advertisement