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11-07-2019, 13:58   #1
veryangryman
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Why do people criticise advice that is usually wink-nod, hush-hush

For example, I'm thinking of the exxaagerated response to Leo's well meaning advice

"Ask your parents help to put down your deposit if you can"

It's practical advice that I for one have heard since i was in my teens (i'm 37 now). Not announced on any major forum, but in personal conversations.

Something seems to get lost in pieces of advice like this when they are broadcast to the masses. It would make you think "Screw them, let them figure it out for themselves".

The way people dilute the point of the messages given in good faith is extremely disappointing. Partly blame the media for needing something to talk about other than Love Island.
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11-07-2019, 14:27   #2
Riskymove
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sadly it is part of debate at present - nit picking, whataboutery, twisting words, etc.
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11-07-2019, 14:35   #3
Gregor Samsa
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Some people expect the government to solve every problem. When someone from the government suggests that maybe sometimes people can solve their own problems, they get pretty bent out of shape.

Of course some of them pretty bent out of shape when the government does try to solve problems too. Or when they realise that solving such problems usually involves spending money raised by tax payers.

Last edited by Gregor Samsa; 11-07-2019 at 14:40.
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11-07-2019, 14:41   #4
MrMusician18
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Originally Posted by veryangryman View Post
For example, I'm thinking of the exxaagerated response to Leo's well meaning advice

"Ask your parents help to put down your deposit if you can"

It's practical advice that I for one have heard since i was in my teens (i'm 37 now). Not announced on any major forum, but in personal conversations.

Something seems to get lost in pieces of advice like this when they are broadcast to the masses. It would make you think "Screw them, let them figure it out for themselves".

The way people dilute the point of the messages given in good faith is extremely disappointing. Partly blame the media for needing something to talk about other than Love Island.
People are critical of such advice from public figures because while it may be practical in the current economic environment, it shouldn't be a policy. When it is offered as a solution by a public figure it tends to point to that kind of thinking, at a minimum, informing policy.

So while it may be practical for people to ask their parents for a leg up to get their first house, it should be government policy that people should be able to afford a house without such support.
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11-07-2019, 14:47   #5
rireland
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Not only that but I know loads of lads who have parents to give them money.
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11-07-2019, 14:55   #6
zanador
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I can't afford my own house let alone saving for one for my son. And I do work very hard but also get social welfare support. So not sure should I hate myself or love myself?
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11-07-2019, 14:59   #7
jam_mac_jam
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Maybe people get frustrated that government policy to keep house prices high means their children cannot afford to buy a house and then they are told they shold be funding it instead of government implementation of policies that will have a more reasonable price for housing.
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11-07-2019, 15:00   #8
jam_mac_jam
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My parents worked very hard for their money they should be able to enjoy it not have to give it to me.
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11-07-2019, 15:05   #9
odyssey06
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Some people expect the government to solve every problem. When someone from the government suggests that maybe sometimes people can solve their own problems, they get pretty bent out of shape.
Of course some of them pretty bent out of shape when the government does try to solve problems too. Or when they realise that solving such problems usually involves spending money raised by tax payers.
The housing market has been pretty bent out of shape through 20 years of mis-management from successive governments. It's dysfunctional.
Just as the health service is. And An Garda Siochana. And the insurance sector.

There is a limit to what people can do as individuals to defend themselves \ react to the problems created.

People take out health insurance- they shouldn't have to.
They get monitored house alarms - they shouldn't have to.
They pay over the odds for car insurance relative to other EU countries - they shouldn't have to.
They ask parents for help with deposits - they shouldn't have to.

Asking parents for help with deposits isn't a solution, it's a symptom of a deeper problem. And if everyone asks their parents for help with deposits, nothing would change, because all house prices would have to go up as more money chases not enough houses.

So that's why people respond as they do.
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11-07-2019, 16:57   #10
jam_mac_jam
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Originally Posted by phutyle View Post
Some people expect the government to solve every problem. When someone from the government suggests that maybe sometimes people can solve their own problems, they get pretty bent out of shape.

Of course some of them pretty bent out of shape when the government does try to solve problems too. Or when they realise that solving such problems usually involves spending money raised by tax payers.
No they expect the government not to cause the problem or make an exciting problem worse
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11-07-2019, 17:04   #11
FunLover18
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I think it's the assumption that everyone has parents who are in a position to offer that kind of help. This just isn't an option for some people. It's like when you pieces by usually middle-class yuppies on "how I saved for a mortgage" and it's basically a just "I lived with my parents for five years and they gave me 50% of the deposit". I know the word is going to get a lot of flack but Leo's advice and these sorts of pieces usually come from a position of privilege and it's a privilege a lot of people don't have.
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11-07-2019, 17:11   #12
goose2005
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I think it's the assumption that everyone has parents who are in a position to offer that kind of help. This just isn't an option for some people. It's like when you pieces by usually middle-class yuppies on "how I saved for a mortgage" and it's basically a just "I lived with my parents for five years and they gave me 50% of the deposit". I know the word is going to get a lot of flack but Leo's advice and these sorts of pieces usually come from a position of privilege and it's a privilege a lot of people don't have.
A lot of government policies come with that assumption - everyone has well-off parents with whom they can live well into their 20s if they have to, get digouts and loans and cash gifts from. Like the lower Jobseekers for 18-25-year-olds.
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11-07-2019, 17:23   #13
suicide_circus
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i think Leo is a charlatan but look what he said;

"Ask your parents help to put down your deposit if you can"

if you can.

he made that very clear unambiguous caveat because he knows not every parent is in a position to do so
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11-07-2019, 17:33   #14
FunLover18
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i think Leo is a charlatan but look what he said;

"Ask your parents help to put down your deposit if you can"

if you can.

he made that very clear unambiguous caveat because he knows not every parent is in a position to do so
Sorry, I thought he said "let them eat cake" but he actually said "let those who have cake to eat, eat cake". If I knew how to do the Pacman emoji on my phone I would.

It's not really what you'd expect or want to hear from the leader of a country.
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11-07-2019, 17:35   #15
suicide_circus
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Sorry, I thought he said "let them eat cake" but he actually said "let those who have cake to eat, eat cake". If I knew how to do the Pacman emoji on my phone I would.

It's not really what you'd expect or want to hear from the leader of a country.
whats the good of having cake if you dont eat it?

do people want their cake and eat it too?

the proof of the pudding is after all, in the eating.
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