Ireland RWC Backline

Espbraids · 25-07-2015 7:29pm #1

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 Payne
12 Henshaw
11 Zebo
10 Sexton
9 Murray

Kinda picks itself or what?

Celly Smunt · 25-07-2015 7:31pm

Injury and fitness depending I'd like to see Fitzgerald ahead of Zebo, though with a bit of alteration.

cadaliac · 25-07-2015 7:36pm

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Injury and fitness depending I'd like to see Fitzgerald ahead of Zebo, though with a bit of alteration.

Zebo wouldn't be my first choice either.

Wang King · 25-07-2015 7:36pm

Think the AI's will tell a lot, depends what Joe sees as his best wing option, is it Zebo, Fitz or Earls, don't think he's going to make any other changes bar the wing though.

bilston · 25-07-2015 7:41pm

I reckon it will either be Fitzgerald or Trimble on the wing. A lot depends on Trimble's fitness and form though after a long time out.

Espbraids · 25-07-2015 7:44pm

What's happening with Luke Marshall is he a Jonny Wilkinson type just doomed like??

Stan27 · 25-07-2015 7:56pm

I would love to see Payne at 15

JacquesSon · 25-07-2015 8:08pm

Is McCloskey out for the WC?

I'd love to see him inside Henshaw with Payne at FB.

clsmooth · 25-07-2015 8:10pm

I'd like to see Fitz at 11. He adds real line breaking ability to the backline and is always looking for the offload. Trimble adds more physicality but with Henshaw and Payne at 12/13 I think Fitz's offloading would be more useful to unlock defenses.

bilston · 25-07-2015 8:11pm

JacquesSon wrote: »

Is McCloskey out for the WC?

I'd love to see him inside Henshaw with Payne at FB.

Not in the squad and not a realistic option yet. His time will probably come but not yet.

25-07-2015 8:15pm

Zebo doesn't pick himself. Everyone else does.

Anyone hoping for Payne at 15 or other big changes is going to be disappointed.

JacquesSon · 25-07-2015 8:16pm

bilston wrote: »

Not in the squad and not a realistic option yet. His time will probably come but not yet.

Shame, the boy is a tank and any excuse to put Henshaw at 13 is a good one.

blackdog1 · 25-07-2015 8:48pm

Victor Nervous Protein wrote: »

Zebo doesn't pick himself. Everyone else does.

Anyone hoping for Payne at 15 or other big changes is going to be disappointed.

Why does Kearney pick himself? ?? He was terrible all season. The man doesn't inspire me when he tackles and he barely passes the ball. Zebo should be tried at fullback for one of the warm up games if for nothing else but to give Kearney a kick up the ass.

irishbucsfan · 25-07-2015 9:01pm

blackdog1 wrote: »

Why does Kearney pick himself? ?? He was terrible all season. The man doesn't inspire me when he tackles and he barely passes the ball. Zebo should be tried at fullback for one of the warm up games if for nothing else but to give Kearney a kick up the ass.

Kearney wasn't terrible all season. There aren't any other Irish players who guarrantee the same territory that Kearney does. That's what he's asked to do and he delivers it every time.

I'm most interested in seeing what shape Trimble is in. It might be the only thing about the warm-ups I'll be interested in seeing. If he can get himself to full fitness then I think the backline really does pick itself. If not then there's a decision to be made between Zebo/Fitzgerald in that spot.

total former · 25-07-2015 9:08pm

Another Zebo discussion you say?

I can't see him starting and i wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't travel. Fitzgerald, Earls and Trimble are all better players and Zebo's lack of versatility will count against him as squad cover.

Other than the back like is set in stone.

The Lost Sheep · 25-07-2015 9:41pm

Espbraids wrote: »

What's happening with Luke Marshall is he a Jonny Wilkinson type just doomed like??

Don't Jonny Wilkinson type??? JW had a tough time with injuries between 03/07 world cups but certainly wasn't doomed. Issues with LM are very different

vienne86 · 25-07-2015 9:43pm

Is Trimble back fit? I think he is a fabulous player, but wonder will he just be too rusty. I too would have Fitz ahead of Zebo.

nc6000 · 25-07-2015 9:48pm

Kearney hasn't been great for a while now. Someone else needs a run there in one or two of the warmups.

Wang King · 25-07-2015 9:49pm

People seem to be mistaking their opinions for Joe's, Zebo was outstanding against the French and hardly put a foot wrong in his other games, Fitz got a chance against Scotland, and while he did nothing wrong, he didn't rip up an trees either.
I had forgotten about Trimble I must say, I thought he was still injured, but if he's fit, he's most definitely in the mix

25-07-2015 10:00pm

blackdog1 wrote: »

Why does Kearney pick himself? ?? He was terrible all season. The man doesn't inspire me when he tackles and he barely passes the ball. Zebo should be tried at fullback for one of the warm up games if for nothing else but to give Kearney a kick up the ass.

Because in the real world, Joe Schmidt is going to pick Rob Kearney.

And terrible all season? Absolute nonsense.

bilston · 25-07-2015 10:03pm

vienne86 wrote: »

Is Trimble back fit? I think he is a fabulous player, but wonder will he just be too rusty. I too would have Fitz ahead of Zebo.

Yeah he is fit again. The rust could be an issue but then everyone will be rusty come the warm up games as almost no one has played since May.

Celly Smunt · 25-07-2015 10:12pm

Honestly forgot about Trimble there jaysus, it has to be a Fitz and Trimble on the wings.

Tox56 · 25-07-2015 10:13pm

Wang King wrote: »

People seem to be mistaking their opinions for Joe's, Zebo was outstanding against the French and hardly put a foot wrong in his other games, Fitz got a chance against Scotland, and while he did nothing wrong, he didn't rip up an trees either.
I had forgotten about Trimble I must say, I thought he was still injured, but if he's fit, he's most definitely in the mix

Zebo was 'outstanding' against France but Fitz didnt even qualify to rip up trees against Scotland? It wasnt directly comparable because of how differently we approached the game but he was more effective in attack against Scotland than Zebo had been in any of the previous games, he got a chance and took it

irishbucsfan · 25-07-2015 10:14pm

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Honestly forgot about Trimble there jaysus, it has to be a Fitz and Trimble on the wings.

There is not an ice cube's chance in hell that Tommy Bowe does not start if fit (to borrow a Hookism). He's the only winger in the squad guaranteed of his place at this stage really.

Coburger · 25-07-2015 10:15pm

nc6000 wrote: »

Kearney hasn't been great for a while now. Someone else needs a run there in one or two of the warmups.

Too true. It's been a while since he was at his best. I'd like to see Payne there but then what would the centres be?

Celly Smunt · 25-07-2015 10:15pm

Wang King wrote: »

People seem to be mistaking their opinions for Joe's, Zebo was outstanding against the French and hardly put a foot wrong in his other games, Fitz got a chance against Scotland, and while he did nothing wrong, he didn't rip up an trees either.
I had forgotten about Trimble I must say, I thought he was still injured, but if he's fit, he's most definitely in the mix

Ah now Fitzgerald had a great first half against Scotland that I recall, can't remember the second half but I definitely remember positively comparing him to Zebo.

Celly Smunt · 25-07-2015 10:16pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There is not an ice cube's chance in hell that Tommy Bowe does not start if fit (to borrow a Hookism). He's the only winger in the squad guaranteed of his place at this stage really.

Not particularly, Bowe hasn't been at the races lately especially when given his chances over this year's campaign.

total former · 25-07-2015 10:19pm

nc6000 wrote: »

Kearney hasn't been great for a while now. Someone else needs a run there in one or two of the warmups.

Jones will play probably two of the warm ups, because no one is going to play all four, but Kearney is a 100% nailed on starter.

smiley_face · 25-07-2015 10:19pm

total former wrote: »

Another Zebo discussion you say?

I can't see him starting and i wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't travel. Fitzgerald, Earls and Trimble are all better players and Zebo's lack of versatility will count against him as squad cover.

Other than the back like is set in stone.

Zebo's favourite position is fullback, and he was a great Gaelic footballer when he was younger, can kick accurately and has a big left boot on him.
He is versatile enough to cover two positions at least anyway, and I also believe he could play at 13 if a solid tackling and crash-balling 12 was selected with him. He could be similar to Fickou for France or J Joseph for England.
Whatever about that contentious supposition, he should be tried out at fullback for one of the warm-up matches, as should Jones.
We know what Kearney offers, but to see if there's any better option it should be tested at least.
Zebo and Fitz are both good, either would do a good job, also a 2014 Trimble would give Joe Schmidt a serious headache for selections, which would be great obviously.
Would also like to see Henshaw and Payne swap positions for one match to see if it worked better.

total former · 25-07-2015 10:30pm

Yeah I read Zebo talking about FB during the week, I don't think it will have any bearing on the world cup selection though.

blindside88 · 25-07-2015 10:41pm

I wouldn't like to have Zebo as the last line of defence to be honest, although his tackling has seriously improved. There seems to be very little talk here about Earls. I love him as a winger, he's a pit bull in defence and is a very strong runner with ball in hand

Podge_irl · 25-07-2015 10:42pm

smiley_face wrote: »

Whatever about that contentious supposition, he should be tried out at fullback for one of the warm-up matches, as should Jones.
We know what Kearney offers, but to see if there's any better option it should be tested at least.

One warmup won't make any difference.

smiley_face · 25-07-2015 10:53pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

One warmup won't make any difference.

1 would be enough to see if it was an option. Would be useful before making a selection decision, not necessary to change Kearney as 1st choice, but could decide who goes as back 3 cover.
Jones or Zebo, for instance, if Fitz got the 11 jersey.

thebaz · 25-07-2015 10:57pm

blackdog1 wrote: »

Why does Kearney pick himself? ?? He was terrible all season. The man doesn't inspire me when he tackles and he barely passes the ball. Zebo should be tried at fullback for one of the warm up games if for nothing else but to give Kearney a kick up the ass.

Cause on his day he is the best full back in Ireland - by some - and as good as any World wide - stood the test when gone up against the best - We need big game players for WC - and that is what Kearney is - admittedly had a poor season last year - I expect to see him back to best for WC .

Regards rest of back line , picks itself except wings , which i assume will alternate given form, injury and opposition.

Espbraids · 25-07-2015 11:08pm

If Payne hasn't picked himself at 13 yet I have no idea whatsoever what will convince some of you. He's an Irish legend in the making and I'm fully behind Schmidt putting him at 13. If you don't believe me watch him more closely in internationals. He has it all, makes no mistakes, and creates massively for others. He's not a flair player, Henshaw does that. It's international temperament that it's all about. Why bury an outstanding player back at FB when they have proven they are far better closer to the action.

phog · 25-07-2015 11:50pm

Wang King wrote: »

People seem to be mistaking their opinions for Joe's, Zebo was outstanding against the French and hardly put a foot wrong in his other games, Fitz got a chance against Scotland, and while he did nothing wrong, he didn't rip up an trees either.
I had forgotten about Trimble I must say, I thought he was still injured, but if he's fit, he's most definitely in the mix

Actually, the Scotland game more so than the other games suited both players unfortunately for Zebo, Joe rested him because of his efforts in the earlier 6Ns games.

Podge_irl · 25-07-2015 11:53pm

smiley_face wrote: »

1 would be enough to see if it was an option. Would be useful before making a selection decision, not necessary to change Kearney as 1st choice, but could decide who goes as back 3 cover.
Jones or Zebo, for instance, if Fitz got the 11 jersey.

Jones is 100% going. He has been in every squad for the last two years for a reason.

I think we're in danger of overestimating the importance of these games. They are to get some match fitness and short of a horror showing akin to TOL 4 years ago they will have very little impact upon selection. The real areas they effect will be on Trimble showing fitness and Ryan pushing Tuohy. That's about it.

Wang King · 26-07-2015 12:42am

phog wrote: »

Actually, the Scotland game more so than the other games suited both players unfortunately for Zebo, Joe rested him because of his efforts in the earlier 6Ns games.

He would have had a field day against Scotland i believe, they were just shocking and he would have been a proper attacking force

AbusesToilets · 26-07-2015 1:04am

No mention of Gilroy? Thought he looked good towards the end of the season.

duckysauce · 26-07-2015 2:04am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

No mention of Gilroy? Thought he looked good towards the end of the season.

class in attack his defense is awful though so wouldn't want him there

Celly Smunt · 26-07-2015 2:55am

It's kind of frightening that at the end of the day it comes down to what kind of day Johnny is having. We're not going to be scoring many try's against the SH sides, lets just pray that this is his peak.

Ireland 2/1 at the moment for reaching the final I see, that's nice to see.

shuffol · 26-07-2015 3:56am

Will be interesting to see if Schmidt gives Payne a run at 15 in one of the warmups or if Jones gets a few starts and doesn't go very well. Might open up the debate for one of the backline spots.

AbusesToilets · 26-07-2015 5:33am

Jones is just the definition of average. Absolute waste of a roster spot given some of the other talented players who could fill that role.

smiley_face · 26-07-2015 10:05am

Podge_irl wrote: »

Jones is 100% going. He has been in every squad for the last two years for a reason.

I think we're in danger of overestimating the importance of these games. They are to get some match fitness and short of a horror showing akin to TOL 4 years ago they will have very little impact upon selection. The real areas they effect will be on Trimble showing fitness and Ryan pushing Tuohy. That's about it.

All it would take is one or two injuries and the selection becomes wide open.
It's good preparation to look at a few options just in case, and competition for positions keeps players on their toes.
I think a lot of Irish supporters would rather Zebo as 23 instead of Jones, so at least he should get some time there to show if he's capable, even half a match at least.
Not saying I think Jones should be dropped for Zebo, just that the jury is out until both get a chance to show what they can do.
Perhaps for one warm-up game they could both play, and Jones could swap to the wing and Zebo to full-back at half-time. Perhaps it's too late to be experimenting, but would be some indication.
All that said, I think Joe wants a back-up full-back that plays regularly in that position, can understand that, so wouldn't criticise that selection if it came to it.

errlloyd · 26-07-2015 10:08am

smiley_face wrote: »

I think a lot of Irish supporters would rather Zebo as 23 instead of Jones, so at least he should get some time there to show if he's capable, even half a match at least.

This should never be the reason anyone gets picked for anything.

26-07-2015 10:09am

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think we're in danger of overestimating the importance of these games. They are to get some match fitness and short of a horror showing akin to TOL 4 years ago they will have very little impact upon selection. The real areas they effect will be on Trimble showing fitness and Ryan pushing Tuohy. That's about it.

Absolutely. But we'll still get "x player was really good and y player wasn't therefore x should go" which ignores the entire body of work that's gone in since Schmidt took over.

I'd add there might also be a decision to be made on one backup prop, and possibly a backrow.

smiley_face · 26-07-2015 10:09am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Jones is just the definition of average. Absolute waste of a roster spot given some of the other talented players who could fill that role.

That's very harsh, he's a good determined player, he is strong and quick and more importantly he always gives 100% commitment.
Who is more suitable in your opinion?
Conway perhaps? Or Earls?

Celly Smunt · 26-07-2015 10:42am

smiley_face wrote: »

That's very harsh, he's a good determined player, he is strong and quick and more importantly he always gives 100% commitment.
Who is more suitable in your opinion?
Conway perhaps? Or Earls?

Determined alone doesnt just cut it though, especially not in a strong side like ours. He's a good player but that's it, 15 years ago perhaps he would've had a solid spot but not with the competition in the side now.

shuffol · 26-07-2015 10:48am

The thing with Jones is that he's never really demonstrated that he's a test level player or even had much of an opportunity to do so, it will be interesting to see how he does if given a chance in the warmups and doesn't do well. Then maybe the idea of Payne been fullback cover and bringing another center will look more appealing.

sydthebeat · 26-07-2015 10:55am

Iirc the vast majority of jones' appearances for the first team have been on the wing?

irishbucsfan · 26-07-2015 11:01am

shuffol wrote: »

The thing with Jones is that he's never really demonstrated that he's a test level player or even had much of an opportunity to do so, it will be interesting to see how he does if given a chance in the warmups and doesn't do well. Then maybe the idea of Payne been fullback cover and bringing another center will look more appealing.

He's actually played very little fullback for us, even off the bench. He's been in the squad when the likes of Earls/Fitzgerald/Trimble/Bowe have been out injured. But Earls and Fitzgerald cover full back as well as center which he does not. Payne can play center and full back as can Henshaw. I'd say all those guys are currently better players in their positions than he is. If those guys stay fit you'd have to imagine the odds are stacked against him. If he starts at 15 in a warmup and plays well then he has a chance perhaps.

How many back three players will we bring? We only brought 5 in 2011, this year you could see maybe one more with Earls/Fitzgerald being options in midfield. Bowe and Kearney are certainties, then you would expect all of Earls, Fitzgerald, Zebo and Trimble to travel. Suddenly things start to look difficult for Jones unless there are injuries.

Ireland RWC Backline

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