RWC 2015 - build-up thread

11-07-2015 8:19am

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Anyone see the article where Mike Tindall thinks New Zealand are the only team that can stop England from winning the World Cup?

I wouldn't even be 100% confident that they'll make it out of their pool.

It's a tough pool to call and the only team I *want* to come out of it are Australia. I'm still thick with wales over 2011 and I just think the unbelievable drama of England not qualifying would be thoroughly entertaining.

From an Ireland perspective I'd probably fear them all more or less equally in the knock out stages.

Man though, if England didn't make it out of the pool

sydthebeat · 11-07-2015 8:28am

PaulM1977 wrote: »

Australia would be the team to watch, they are coming in under the radar with a good coach in place, players playing outside Australia are eligible so they have an experienced squad and have done it all before. They have a tough group to get out of though, I'd back them to that at the very least.

Their half backs aren't good enough to get them to a final.

Their first xv would be decent but the squad is shallow enough to be honest.

I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get out of the group, though I do think that is Wales fate. Their most important player is probably matt tomua and if he gets injured, their seriously in trouble

bilston · 11-07-2015 8:44am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Their half backs aren't good enough to get them to a final.

Their first xv would be decent but the squad is shallow enough to be honest.

I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get out of the group, though I do think that is Wales fate. Their most important player is probably matt tomua and if he gets injured, their seriously in trouble

Do Wales play Australia in Cardiff? I really hope Wales don't make it out but if I'm right and they are at home to Australia I reckon they'll get through. That win last Autumn broke the hoodoo a bit for them.

sydthebeat · 11-07-2015 9:01am

bilston wrote: »

Do Wales play Australia in Cardiff? I really hope Wales don't make it out but if I'm right and they are at home to Australia I reckon they'll get through. That win last Autumn broke the hoodoo a bit for them.

no they play in twickenham

kuang1 · 11-07-2015 9:17am

PaulM1977 wrote: »

Australia would be the team to watch, they are coming in under the radar with a good coach in place, players playing outside Australia are eligible so they have an experienced squad and have done it all before. They have a tough group to get out of though, I'd back them to that at the very least.

I agree.
Cheika could be their Schmidt.

If I was forced into having a bet on this RWC it would be Australia. Or maybe for them to get to the final.

kuang1 · 11-07-2015 9:20am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Their most important player is probably matt tomua and if he gets injured, their seriously in trouble

I see it an advantage to the NH teams that the SH teams still have to play the Rugby Championship. (Albeit a reduced version)
Any matches the NH teams have left are 'uncompetitive' and you'd hope would imply a lesser likelihood of picking up injuries.

bilston · 11-07-2015 9:43am

sydthebeat wrote: »

no they play in twickenham

That changes things in my mind then.

Who do Wales play in Cardiff? I'm assuming they don't play England there since it's their WC so it must be the two lesser sides?

bilston · 11-07-2015 9:45am

kuang1 wrote: »

I see it an advantage to the NH teams that the SH teams still have to play the Rugby Championship. (Albeit a reduced version)
Any matches the NH teams have left are 'uncompetitive' and you'd hope would imply a lesser likelihood of picking up injuries.

You can argue it both ways and say that the SH sides will be sharper. That should only be a factor in the first week or two though.

Wang King · 11-07-2015 9:50am

kuang1 wrote: »

I agree.
Cheika could be their Schmidt.

If I was forced into having a bet on this RWC it would be Australia. Or maybe for them to get to the final.

If i was forced to make a bet on this WC, I'd think the best value is Australia not to make it out of their group.

Swiwi. · 11-07-2015 10:17am

sydthebeat wrote: »

Their half backs aren't good enough to get them to a final.

Their first xv would be decent but the squad is shallow enough to be honest.

I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get out of the group, though I do think that is Wales fate. Their most important player is probably matt tomua and if he gets injured, their seriously in trouble

Tight 5 (still) not good enough, lack a top class 8, would need Genia & Cooper on fire, don't think Phipps/Foley are good enough.

They will be dangerous if they make it out of Pool A, but I don't see them winning it.

From a NZ point of view, I'd be happy to see the back of England - if they win Pool A, they are a very good shot to win the tournament IMO. Will be interesting to see how they handle the intense media pressure though.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 11-07-2015 10:34am

I think Australia could be a real threat in this World Cup if, and it's a big if, Cheika can mold them into a proper team. I think the problem the Wallabies have had over the last few seasons is all their off field nonsense getting in the way of them playing like an actual team. This year they're a bit like Ireland in that the majority of their squad are Waratah's and they're coming in already working under Cheika's system. That's bound to be an advantage.

My problem with Tindall's comments is that he doesn't even acknowledge that they're in the most difficult pool. If they come out of it then, yes, they probably will go all the way to the final to face New Zealand, but I still don't think it's a guarantee that they will.

Australia v Wales is actually the last match of that pool, which means it'll either be a winner takes all scenario if England have already qualified, or, it's a who gets the easier QF if they've both qualified. Either way it should be an exciting match.

thebaz · 11-07-2015 12:23pm

Australia always seam to get there act together come WC time - like the French, underestimate them at your peril

matthew8 · 11-07-2015 12:45pm

Australia are nowhere near good enough to contend right now. They were very poor in the Autumn, only one win and probably a bit lucky to get it. They have a weak scrum and make plenty of mental errors. Halfbacks not up to scratch either. Only thing that separates them from having no chance is Pocock. Does anyone honestly see them beating New Zealand?

Wang King · 11-07-2015 12:51pm

matthew8 wrote: »

Australia are nowhere near good enough to contend right now. They were very poor in the Autumn, only one win and probably a bit lucky to get it. They have a weak scrum and make plenty of mental errors. Halfbacks not up to scratch either. Only thing that separates them from having no chance is Pocock. Does anyone honestly see them beating Wales?

Ahem,

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 11-07-2015 12:56pm

matthew8 wrote: »

Australia are nowhere near good enough to contend right now. They were very poor in the Autumn, only one win and probably a bit lucky to get it. They have a weak scrum and make plenty of mental errors. Halfbacks not up to scratch either. Only thing that separates them from having no chance is Pocock. Does anyone honestly see them beating New Zealand?

Not beating NZ, no, but I think they're capable of beating England and Wales.

Also, last Autumn the whole Australian set up was a mess, it was the height of the McKenzie/Beale drama. I wouldn't read anything into their performances then.

11-07-2015 1:24pm

My inner bigot really hopes England get knocked out in the group stages on their home turf

Swiwi. · 11-07-2015 1:47pm

pickarooney wrote: »

Any idea how Mafu'u played?

The best I can find pickarooney is 10 minutes of highlights here

https://www.facebook.com/TTRugbyVids/timeline

I reckon Elliot Dixon should bring out his own patented range of duct tape. Maybe get Adidas involved to help his start-up "the blackest duct tape ever".

It will be a foolhardy side in Pool A that sends out a B side vs Fiji, Nadolo now has 15 tries in 19 tests, he's unstoppable close to the line.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 11-07-2015 2:12pm

What do we reckon on Pool B?

South Africa surely favourite to top it. Could Samoa come out at Scotland's expense?

11-07-2015 2:49pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

What do we reckon on Pool B?

South Africa surely favourite to top it. Could Samoa come out at Scotland's expense?

Scotland were not so much poor as very ineffective during the 6N and despite Glasgow's success in the pro12 if they don't perform more clinically then they might struggle a bit. I still wouldn't bet against them at all though and believe they'll come out second in pool B.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 11-07-2015 2:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Scotland were not so much poor as very ineffective during the 6N and despite Glasgow's success in the pro12 if they don't perform more clinically then they might struggle a bit. I still wouldn't bet against them at all though and believe they'll come out second in pool B.

Yeah, their execution was very poor in the 6 Nations but they looked a better side than the previous year. I watched Samoa vs New Zealand during the week there and they are a big side, very physical. Some massive tackles.

The Lost Sheep · 11-07-2015 5:53pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

What do we reckon on Pool B?

South Africa surely favourite to top it. Could Samoa come out at Scotland's expense?

South Africa big favourites. Samoa could certainly qualify ahead of Scotland. They've a week in between all games unlike previous world cups which will make a huge difference ahead of their game against the scots which is last game of that group

Namibia, who are in Pool C with New Zealand, Argentina etc, beat Russia in a warm-up 39-19 this afternoon.

pickarooney · 11-07-2015 6:11pm

Has the SA squad been announced yet and is the absolutely-not-a-quota system been applied?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 11-07-2015 6:17pm

pickarooney wrote: »

Has the SA squad been announced yet and is the absolutely-not-a-quota system been applied?

Not sure the final squad has been announced yet but they won a match this afternoon against a World 15 (basically Toulon). Jean de Villiers made his return from injury, got about 15/20 minutes, set up Le Roux for his hat trick

kevdavey89 · 14-07-2015 5:02pm

Looking for accommodation for a party of 12+ in Cardiff on the weekend of the 17th and 18th of October. It's proving impossible. Can anybody provide any help?Thanks!

Dizzyme · 14-07-2015 5:07pm

Come on the Boys in Green !!!!!
(can't wait, those pesky French better behave themselves and not ruin our party, we've been waiting a long time for this.....)

Podge_irl · 14-07-2015 5:24pm

kevdavey89 wrote: »

Looking for accommodation for a party of 12+ in Cardiff on the weekend of the 17th and 18th of October. It's proving impossible. Can anybody provide any help?Thanks!

I would imagine you are completely ****ed.

The only help I could possibly suggest is looking somewhere outside Cardiff - i.e. Bristol. The only possible chance would be camping in a rugby ground somewhere, I know people have done that before. You have zero chance of finding real accom for 2 people, never mind 12. With 12 though you could potentially get private transport to and from the game if you wanted.

sydneybound · 14-07-2015 5:51pm

Italy in trouble at 10 however Haimona is a shocking kicker, ok in general play.

Italy fly half Kelly Haimona's injury, means their 10 options are Tommaso Allen & an uncapped 23 year old Carlo Canna from domestic league.

molloyjh · 14-07-2015 11:14pm

sydneybound wrote: »

Italy in trouble at 10 however Haimona is a shocking kicker, ok in general play.

Italy fly half Kelly Haimona's injury, means their 10 options are Tommaso Allen & an uncapped 23 year old Carlo Canna from domestic league.

Italy have been in trouble at 10 for some time now. Haimona was never the answer. He's very, very average. What's the deal with Orquera? Again he's not the answer but I'd still nearly have him ahead of the others. Not one for the contact part of the game but he's a better player with ball in hand.

sydneybound · 15-07-2015 6:30am

Some interesting combinations and names coming back for Australia this weekend

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/giteau-back-to-partner-cooper-and-genia-v-boks

Hopes are very high that they'll get a good win. Others believe the Genia & Cooper combination is there to generate ticket sales.

Swiwi. · 15-07-2015 8:04am

sydneybound wrote: »

Some interesting combinations and names coming back for Australia this weekend

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/giteau-back-to-partner-cooper-and-genia-v-boks

Hopes are very high that they'll get a good win. Others believe the Genia & Cooper combination is there to generate ticket sales.

IMO, that's just about the strongest Aussie backline possible, much prefer Giteau at 12 to 10. You could argue about Speight.

Pack is also about their best, except you could also argue about Pocock starting and their 2nd row combination.

The NZ side for Argentina has SBW & Nonu in the centres, which I can't stand, it has been tried before and doesn't work. I reckon Argentina can run NZ close here.

sydneybound · 15-07-2015 9:36am

Swiwi. wrote: »

IMO, that's just about the strongest Aussie backline possible, much prefer Giteau at 12 to 10. You could argue about Speight.

Pack is also about their best, except you could also argue about Pocock starting and their 2nd row combination.

The NZ side for Argentina has SBW & Nonu in the centres, which I can't stand, it has been tried before and doesn't work. I reckon Argentina can run NZ close here.

Yeah I'm happy with the Australian team. Pity Pocock didn't get in but he'll start in the next round. It's certainly a new era and reckon the new management will do well. I suppose for the ABs this game is good to test out that centre partnership.

Have you seen the Argentina team? So many new faces in there. Fair dues the management aren't frightened about throwing youngsters in the deep end. It's practically their new Super Rugby team.

.ak · 15-07-2015 10:41am

Presumably Pocock will be on the bench?

sydneybound · 15-07-2015 11:59am

Yeah he will be.

RugbyLover123 · 15-07-2015 1:08pm

sydneybound wrote: »

Some interesting combinations and names coming back for Australia this weekend

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/giteau-back-to-partner-cooper-and-genia-v-boks

Hopes are very high that they'll get a good win. Others believe the Genia & Cooper combination is there to generate ticket sales.

Thought we'd see Pocock/Hooper in the back row, surprised he's opted for Hooper starring. I'd go for Pocock then bring in Hooper for the last 20/25.

Back line looks exciting though IF Genia/Cooper can rekindle form they'll be a serious threat, otherwise I'd have Phipps starting, I think he's very underrated.

DGRulz · 15-07-2015 1:16pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Italy have been in trouble at 10 for some time now. Haimona was never the answer. He's very, very average. What's the deal with Orquera? Again he's not the answer but I'd still nearly have him ahead of the others. Not one for the contact part of the game but he's a better player with ball in hand.

People on the rugby union sub-reddit were saying yesterday that Orquera retired from international rugby last month.

molloyjh · 15-07-2015 1:23pm

DGRulz wrote: »

People on the rugby union sub-reddit were saying yesterday that Orquera retired from international rugby last month.

Didn't hear that at all, but the Winnipeg Free Press mentioned it so it must be true.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/other/flyhalf-haimona-behind-schedule-in-recovery-from-broken-arm-sent-home-from-italys-rwc-camp-314844421.html

Flyhalf, already a weakness of Italy's, became an even bigger concern with Haimona's slow recovery. His Six Nations backup, the 48-cap Luciano Orquera, retired from internationals in June.

thomond2006 · 15-07-2015 3:31pm

So you don't need to come to Scotland to play for Scotland under the granny rule anymore: http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_62765,00.html

molloyjh · 15-07-2015 3:34pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

So you don't need to come to Scotland to play for Scotland under the granny rule anymore: http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_62765,00.html

You have to wonder how stuff like that impacts squad morale and, I hesitate to use the word, environment. Ireland are in a strong position because it's a pretty settled squad full of guys who are all very familiar with one another and who all know they are there on merit and for the right reasons.

thomond2006 · 15-07-2015 3:35pm

molloyjh wrote: »

You have to wonder how stuff like that impacts squad morale and, I hesitate to use the word, environment. Ireland are in a strong position because it's a pretty settled squad full of guys who are all very familiar with one another and who all know they are there on merit and for the right reasons.

Scotland have lost the plot when it comes to project players and 'granny rule' players. This call up is ridiculous unless Hardie is moving to Scotland next season. It's not as if he's going to be available for 6N 2016 if he's still with the Highlanders.

total former · 15-07-2015 3:41pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

So you don't need to come to Scotland to play for Scotland under the granny rule anymore: http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_62765,00.html

That's bananas. Absolutely nuts.

And back-row is an area of relative strength for them, do they need to be scouring the globe for mid-level players with tenuous links to Scotland?

15-07-2015 4:55pm

total former wrote: »

That's bananas. Absolutely nuts.

And back-row is an area of relative strength for them, do they need to be scouring the globe for mid-level players with tenuous links to Scotland?

Even the player is lukewarm about it, "Playing for Scotland has been on my radar"....Whoopdy doo

molloyjh wrote: »

I hesitate to use the word, environment.

Swiwi. · 15-07-2015 5:40pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

So you don't need to come to Scotland to play for Scotland under the granny rule anymore: http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_62765,00.html

Was only a question of time. Hardie is quite good in a Scottish backrow that is hardly overflowing with talent. If you're offered a playing ticket to the RWC, who would say no?

The moral highground is firmly under water these days.

molloyjh · 15-07-2015 6:21pm

Swiwi. wrote: »

Was only a question of time. Hardie is quite good in a Scottish backrow that is hardly overflowing with talent. If you're offered a playing ticket to the RWC, who would say no?

The moral highground is firmly under water these days.

Yeah the Michael Bent scenario wasn't significantly better than this at all.

Swiwi. · 15-07-2015 6:39pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah the Michael Bent scenario wasn't significantly better than this at all.

TBH, I no longer care too much. World Rugby have a set of rules, which virtually all countries exploit to some extent.

On the one hand, it would be nice for Scotland to be full of purebred, unsullied Scots. On the other, it's nice to see Scotland a bit more competitive.

It's all been debated multiple times on this forum, and I think World Rugby are looking to make it a little less liberal.

The philosophical debate about what point you become genuinely "x or y" nationality is more for the off-topic thread. Would I feel Swiss and be happy to represent Switzerland on the sporting field? Probably yes. But I'm not born in Switzerland, and have no Swiss blood. I do have Swiss citizenship, though.

In general, it seems to me that Irish people are quite protective of becoming Irish, despite the history of emigration. NZ being a young country, and historically everyone with white skin being of British & Irish descent, we take a lot less convincing to consider someone as Kiwi. Not a criticism, just a big difference between the countries, but you see it on this forum where people are constantly not happy about someone not born in Ireland playing for Ireland.

smiley_face · 15-07-2015 6:53pm

Swiwi. wrote: »

TBH, I no longer care too much. World Rugby have a set of rules, which virtually all countries exploit to some extent.

On the one hand, it would be nice for Scotland to be full of purebred, unsullied Scots. On the other, it's nice to see Scotland a bit more competitive.

It's all been debated multiple times on this forum, and I think World Rugby are looking to make it a little less liberal.

The philosophical debate about what point you become genuinely "x or y" nationality is more for the off-topic thread. Would I feel Swiss and be happy to represent Switzerland on the sporting field? Probably yes. But I'm not born in Switzerland, and have no Swiss blood. I do have Swiss citizenship, though.

In general, it seems to me that Irish people are quite protective of becoming Irish, despite the history of emigration. NZ being a young country, and historically everyone with white skin being of British & Irish descent, we take a lot less convincing to consider someone as Kiwi. Not a criticism, just a big difference between the countries, but you see it on this forum where people are constantly not happy about someone not born in Ireland playing for Ireland.

Maybe there's a difference between the weaker nations and the stronger nations, it's like Ireland borrowing English players in soccer, when realistically those players would never have played for England so it raises the standard of our team but doesn't affect England. Same for some foreign Irish/Scottish rugby players, it's okay as they weren't getting a look in for their own country before they declared for Ireland/Scotland. There's also a great feel-good factor if we can take a player, improve them with our provinces/domestic teams, and by the time they are good enough for international representation they prove to their own country that discarded them that they had it in them after all. I like that underdog story, especially if the player moves here and becomes a citizen and settles down here.
I think France, England, New Zealand, South Africa and possibly also Australia probably need stricter rules, as they already have an enormous playing base to work with.

Podge_irl · 15-07-2015 6:55pm

I would imagine Irish people have a strong sense of irishness precisely because of the history of emigration not despite it. It takes a long time for Irish emigrants to stop considering themselves Irish and we're not used to people coming over.

But yeah potentially for another time.

Swiwi. · 15-07-2015 7:00pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

I would imagine Irish people have a strong sense of irishness precisely because of the history of emigration not despite it. It takes a long time for Irish emigrants to stop considering themselves Irish and we're not used to people coming over.

But yeah potentially for another time.

...or the big cesspool of the Afters Hours forum...

It does intrigue me a bit though. Having now lived in Ireland, I wouldn't mind hearing some 2nd generation emigrants to NZ of Irish heritage interviewed, and see how strongly they still feel Irish etc. I know my dad worked with an Irish couple who'd been in NZ for the best part of 30 plus years, and I think they still felt strongly Irish (there was certainly no losing the accent anyway...)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 15-07-2015 7:09pm

My issue with players being taken from other countries would be that the bigger rugby nations shouldn't have to. I mean, you wouldn't mind someone like Georgia or even the USA nicking players from somewhere else to build the team and build the sport, the aim being that they get a good enough team going to raise the profile of the sport and at some point down the line they've got a wealth of home grown players to choose from.

Historically Scotland shouldn't be in a position where they need to do that but if their board, coaching staff or whoever think that 2 months out from the WC they need to be getting people in from NZ then maybe there's bigger issues they need to deal with going forward.

total former · 15-07-2015 7:22pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah the Michael Bent scenario wasn't significantly better than this at all.

Bent had reasonably strong ties with Ireland, he had been here quite a bit when younger IIRC, so it wasn't our worst exploitation of the granny rule (that was Isaac Boss).

If this Kiwi guy was committed to a Scottish team for next season, I'd feel a lot better about it, but it's the message it sends to the rest of the squad that would annoy me most, that they can parachute this clown into the camp two months out from the World Cup. It's bad management, whatever about the morals of it.

Swiwi. · 15-07-2015 7:28pm

total former wrote: »

Bent had reasonably strong ties with Ireland, he had been here quite a bit when younger IIRC, so it wasn't our worst exploitation of the granny rule (that was Isaac Boss).

If this Kiwi guy was committed to a Scottish team for next season, I'd feel a lot better about it, but it's the message it sends to the rest of the squad that would annoy me most, that they can parachute this clown into the camp two months out from the World Cup. It's bad management, whatever about the morals of it.

Ah come on the guy himself is not a clown. Has it been clarified whether he is only making a cameo World Cup appearance? In theory he can still play for highlanders and represent Scotland, I imagine the 6N falls during the recognised international window, although no doubt someone will correct me on this. And it's only bad management if it leads to a poor team performance - time will tell.

RWC 2015 - build-up thread

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