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Trees removed without my permission.

  • 14-05-2021 7:28am
    #1
    Redchick
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭


    Hi everyone.
    I hope someone can give me some advice (admin if this is not the correct forum please let me know)

    At the back of my property there is a native hedgroes with whitethorn and some other trees. The boundary lies in the middle of this hedgroes and is marked with a wire fence. My neighbour has just removed all the vegetation without my permission. They said the county council gave them permission to remove it, however I don't understand how they could give permission to someone else in relation to a boundary.

    I'm so upset, there was a multitude of birds flying around yesterday evening searching for their nests. I wouldn't let our Gardner touch the hedgroe when we got work done to protect the birds.

    What can I do?


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,487 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    You could report them, as destruction of hedgerows can only be done at certain times. See this link: https://iwt.ie/what-we-do/campaigns/hedgerows/


  • #3
    Caranica
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,145 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Redchick wrote: »
    Hi everyone.
    I hope someone can give me some advice (admin if this is not the correct forum please let me know)

    At the back of my property there is a native hedgroes with whitethorn and some other trees. The boundary lies in the middle of this hedgroes and is marked with a wire fence. My neighbour has just removed all the vegetation without my permission. They said the county council gave them permission to remove it, however I don't understand how they could give permission to someone else in relation to a boundary.

    I'm so upset, there was a multitude of birds flying around yesterday evening searching for their nests. I wouldn't let our Gardner touch the hedgroe when we got work done to protect the birds.

    What can I do?

    I'm so sorry, and angry, to hear this.

    Make a complaint to NPWS first off, it's nesting season and such removal is illegal between 01 March and 31 August.

    If they said the Council gave them permission, was it a planning application? If so check it out.

    You may also need to contact a solicitor, but that depends on what's in the pp. I can't think of any other reason they could say the Council gave them permission.


  • #4
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,819 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    You're not supposed to be even cutting hedgerows now so I don't think the CoCo could have given any permissions unless traffic sightlines are obstructed and normally in those cases the council's will do it themselves.

    I'd say your neighbour is spoofing.


  • #5
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    There's two issues here.

    1. The removal of hedgeroes is regulated. The County Council may be able to give them an exemption to that regulation. I'm not certain if they can or not.

    2. Some or all of the hedgeroes were planted on your side of the border. They are therefore your property and he destroyed your property.

    Point 1 may be all well and good but it doesn't make point 2 acceptable. My point is thtt you have to think about the two points as separate items.


  • #6
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,861 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Have a look at section 44 of the land conveyancing act 2009.

    You may have recourse for compensation through the courts if you can show you have been inconvenienced or damaged.

    Note however that the neighbour does not need your permission to carry out these works.


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  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You would need some legal advice on who exactly owned the hedgerow.

    If the neighbour removed it from their side and without entering your garden it's possible it is theirs.

    Where are the stumps relative to the fence?


  • #8
    stoneill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭stoneill


    Make a complaint to the NWPS and the Gardai.
    There is no way the Co. Council gave permission for this


  • #9
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Report

    Its a fairly crappy thing to do nature wise, never mind as a neighbour
    Some people just don't care


  • #10
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Could you post pictures OP


  • #11
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,709 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Have a look at section 44 of the land conveyancing act 2009.

    You may have recourse for compensation through the courts if you can show you have been inconvenienced or damaged.

    Note however that the neighbour does not need your permission to carry out these works.
    No, but he does need to be doing them for one of the purposes stated in subs (1). The OP doesn't tell us why the neighbour took down the hedge; it may not have been for a purpose that would come within s.44.


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  • #12
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    I don’t agree with removing hedges like this.
    But.

    Domestic hedges aren’t covered by the moratorium on hedge cutting during the closed season. It’s very possible no laws have been broken here.


  • #13
    Redchick
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Redchick


    Thanks for all the replies so far.
    They have planning permission to build a wall on their boundary. The application made no mention of clearing the hedgeroe. I have viewed the site layout and PP application, the hedgerow is outside his boundary, and according to land registry docs our site fully encompasses the hedgeroe, however I know they can be inaccurate.

    I've emailed the council (not taking calls due to level 5 restrictions) and I'll get on to the NPWS and Irish birdwatch assoc this morning.

    Just to point out, they don't intend on even extending their existing border to the legal boundary so just don't understand why they had to clear all the trees. To be honest we're going to get tons more light because of it but I'd rather the birds back. There were also hedgehogs in the area and no doubt they've all been killed


  • #14
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,861 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    No, but he does need to be doing them for one of the purposes stated in subs (1). The OP doesn't tell us why the neighbour took down the hedge; it may not have been for a purpose that would come within s.44.

    Agreed.

    Though it's unlikely that the OP knows the reason the works were carried out as it sounds like this neighbour isn't very neighbourly

    Edit : typed before the above was posted


  • #15
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,922 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    It might be an idea to post here regarding the boundary.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=633

    As for the wildlife aspect & as already posted, private gardens are excluded. So your only recourse is the boundary aspect.


  • #16
    Redchick
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Redchick


    tabby aspreme wrote: »
    Could you post pictures OP

    Not without being identifiable, their house is now in full view.


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Is your neighbour a farmer or is it another garden or something else?


  • #18
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,593 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    from
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/27/enacted/en/print#part8-chap3

    Rights of building owner.

    44.— (1) Subject to subsection (2), a building owner may carry out works to a party structure for the purpose of—

    (a) compliance with any statutory provision or any notice or order under such a provision, or

    (b) carrying out development which is exempted development or development for which planning permission has been obtained or compliance with any condition attached to such permission, or

    (c) preservation of the party structure or of any building or unbuilt-on land of which it forms a part, or

    (d) carrying out any other works which—

    (i) will not cause substantial damage or inconvenience to the adjoining owner, or

    (ii) if they may or will cause such damage or inconvenience, it is nevertheless reasonable to carry them out.

    (2) Subject to subsection (3), in exercising any right under subsection (1) the building owner shall—

    (a) make good all damage caused to the adjoining owner as a consequence of the works, or reimburse the adjoining owner the reasonable costs and expenses of such making good, and

    (b) pay to the adjoining owner—

    (i) the reasonable costs of obtaining professional advice with regard to the likely consequences of the works, and

    (ii) reasonable compensation for any inconvenience caused by the works.

    (3) The building owner may—

    (a) claim from the adjoining owner as a contribution to, or deduct from any reimbursement of, the cost and expenses of making good such damage under subsection (2)(a), or

    (b) deduct from compensation under subsection (2)(b)(ii),

    such sum as will take into account the proportionate use or enjoyment of the party structure which the adjoining owner makes or, it is reasonable to assume, is likely to make.

    (4) If—

    (a) a building owner fails within a reasonable time to—

    (i) make good damage under subsection (2)(a), the adjoining owner may apply to the court for an order requiring the damage to be made good and on such application the court may make such order as it thinks fit, or

    (ii) reimburse costs and expenses under subsection (2)(a) or to pay reasonable costs or compensation under subsection (2)(b), the adjoining owner may recover such costs, expenses or compensation as a simple contract debt in a court of competent jurisdiction.

    (b) an adjoining owner fails to meet a claim to a contribution under subsection (3)(a), the building owner may recover such contribution as a simple contract debt in a court of competent jurisdiction.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • #19
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,593 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Redchick wrote: »
    Not without being identifiable, their house is now in full view.

    There is no law against taking pictures and posting them

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • #20
    Redchick
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Redchick


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Is your neighbour a farmer or is it another garden or something else?

    Another garden.


  • #21
    quartz1
    Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭quartz1


    It was a very ignorant and inconsiderate action by your neighbour. Very very frustrating .


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  • #22
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,942 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    As others have mentioned I don't think s44 applies as it's a domestic garden.(could well be wrong tho).

    Who's side of the fence are the stumps of the hedge located on?
    Are they on both sides? Theirs? Yours?
    Did they enter your property to undertake the removal?


  • #23
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,593 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    banie01 wrote: »
    As others have mentioned I don't think s44 applies as it's a domestic garden.(could well be wrong tho).

    Who's side of the fence are the stumps of the hedge located on?
    Are they on both sides? Theirs? Yours?
    Did they enter your property to undertake the removal?

    Domestic is not the issue here.

    Consent cannot be withheld if a court order is obtained


    OP, where are the foundations in respect of the understood boundary line?
    are they in your property.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • #24
    maestroamado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Redchick wrote: »
    Thanks for all the replies so far.
    They have planning permission to build a wall on their boundary. The application made no mention of clearing the hedgeroe. I have viewed the site layout and PP application, the hedgerow is outside his boundary, and according to land registry docs our site fully encompasses the hedgeroe, however I know they can be inaccurate.

    I've emailed the council (not taking calls due to level 5 restrictions) and I'll get on to the NPWS and Irish birdwatch assoc this morning.

    Just to point out, they don't intend on even extending their existing border to the legal boundary so just don't understand why they had to clear all the trees. To be honest we're going to get tons more light because of it but I'd rather the birds back. There were also hedgehogs in the area and no doubt they've all been killed


    Did you look at the actual planning permission approval to see what it says..
    It seems strange that they needed planning to erect a wall the two properties as normally no planning needed for this or at least that was the case in the past, having a wall which is usually capped and a hedge at the back would not look right, personally i would prefer the hedge but they need to be maintained which may not have being happening.
    I assume from what you say there was diggers to remove the roots of the trees and i cannot understand how this was carried out without your knowledge.
    Please just confirm how all this happened...


  • #25
    maestroamado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Redchick wrote: »
    Not without being identifiable, their house is now in full view.


    Can you not take pictures of a small to demonstrate without showing any of the properties.


  • #26
    Redchick
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Redchick


    The planning permission was for a 2m high wall with capping and a garage beyond it. The wall was separate to the garage.

    There were two fences with the hedging inbetween - the hedging was the legal boundary according to land registry and the pre-existing wire border.

    Diggers etc went onto his land yesterday while we were at work and tore down all trees/hedges right up to our fence but across the boundary line. Not sure if I'm explaining it properly. I will try take pictures but everything is more or less gone.

    I think that answers all the questions.


  • #27
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,709 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    If the wall is going to be erected along the boundary line, then I think s. 44 allows him to do this. But it would have been neighbourly to discuss it with you first.

    Legal remedies would not be much use to you anyway - the hedging is gone and, even if you got money out of him, the wall will still look hideous, and birds can't nest in the money.

    If I were you, as soon as the wall is up I'd replant, directly in front of the wall.


  • #28
    Redchick
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Redchick


    They've pulled out the wire so you can't see it anymore. That's only a small part of what was the hedge, you can see the pre-existing wall on they're side and that's the end of their site.


  • #29
    Redchick
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Redchick


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    If the wall is going to be erected along the boundary line, then I think s. 44 allows him to do this. But it would have been neighbourly to discuss it with you first.

    Legal remedies would not be much use to you anyway - the hedging is gone and, even if you got money out of him, the wall will still look hideous, and birds can't nest in the money.

    If I were you, as soon as the wall is up I'd replant, directly in front of the wall.

    Exactly! We didn't touch a thing on his side when we were trying to sort our garden out, looks like he couldn't repay that respect.


  • #30
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    Sorry I may have missed this. That green fence is your fence? The gap between there and the end of the wall was where the wires fence was? The unfortunate piece here is if that green fence is yours, you may have no list claim to the other side as you have created a new boundary of interpretation. I had that issue before. I can't remember what it was called


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  • #31
    Redchick
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Redchick


    antodeco wrote: »
    Sorry I may have missed this. That green fence is your fence? The gap between there and the end of the wall was where the wires fence was? The unfortunate piece here is if that green fence is yours, you may have no list claim to the other side as you have created a new boundary of interpretation. I had that issue before. I can't remember what it was called

    We both had fences with the hedge in between. The hedge was right on the borderline for both properties. He doesn't intend on moving his wall out any further than where its at.


  • #32
    stoneill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭stoneill


    _Brian wrote: »
    I don’t agree with removing hedges like this.
    But.

    Domestic hedges aren’t covered by the moratorium on hedge cutting during the closed season. It’s very possible no laws have been broken here.

    Domestic hedges planted by owners maybe, but existing hedgerows are definitely covered.


  • #33
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,819 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Where did he dump the hedging.


  • #34
    maestroamado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Redchick wrote: »
    They've pulled out the wire so you can't see it anymore. That's only a small part of what was the hedge, you can see the pre-existing wall on they're side and that's the end of their site.


    Its clear to me from the pics that the pillar is the end of their site and you are right the trees were on your property.
    I expect he had this work done while you were not there as they knew what they was doing.
    If it were me i would let it go as the hedge is gone and it will not be coming back.
    Personally i can see why the person would want to open up and i think the wall will be better than that high hedge as i assume it went to the road, the council likely did give the go ahead as the love it when stuff is removed from roadside.


  • #35
    Redchick
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Redchick


    maestroamado wrote: »
    Its clear to me from the pics that the pillar is the end of their site and you are right the trees were on your property.
    I expect he had this work done while you were not there as they knew what they was doing.
    If it were me i would let it go as the hedge is gone and it will not be coming back.
    Personally i can see why the person would want to open up and i think the wall will be better than that high hedge as i assume it went to the road, the council likely did give the go ahead as the love it when stuff is removed from roadside.

    No egress from the lane, it's closed off to the right of our house land further down to the left one of the others have closed it off.

    Ré the light, it's us who's going to benefit from it, the sun was blocked by the trees for half the day - so that's a positive.

    And most of you guys are right - he is ignorant and condescending.


  • #36
    nagel
    Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭nagel


    look up hedge and ditch rule, would this apply in this situation .


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  • #37
    grassylawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭grassylawn


    To me, they are making a claim to the part of the land that the trees were on. They won't be putting their fence back up where it was. I would think of it like them annexing part of your garden.

    I suggest you get legal advice.


  • #38
    maestroamado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Redchick wrote: »
    No egress from the lane, it's closed off to the right of our house land further down to the left one of the others have closed it off.

    Ré the light, it's us who's going to benefit from it, the sun was blocked by the trees for half the day - so that's a positive.

    And most of you guys are right - he is ignorant and condescending.
    .




    Think of the positive side and ignore the eejit.
    You cannot win with guys like this as they only think of themselves.
    If you put the word out he did you a favor by pulling down the hedge
    and built a free boundery wall it will piss him off.
    Your the winner here all day long so ii would leave it as no matter
    what you do the hedge is gone...


  • #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Any indication of where they are going to put the wall?
    If they go from the existing pillar I imagine that will resolve the boundary issue.

    It obviously won't replace the missing hedge.


  • #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    That kind of thing would break my heart. I would be in floods of tears! While I might forgive him in a more general human folly sense of things I would not be able to look yer man in the eye ever again. It would be like knowing someone who kicks dogs or beats horses. Just would not have the stomach for it.
    But once I had mourned the trees and accepted it, I would plan how to to make things better. You could use his new wall for clematis or other creepers, put in a mix of native hedgerow in some spots, maybe some pink hawthorn and guelder rose, with some delicate trees as a specimen or two, trees that are beautiful but not too large so you could still benefit from extra light. And the birds will have new homes.


  • #41
    maestroamado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I just stick this in here and i hope its ok.
    I was involved helping out a relative who's land had being neglected by 3 separate people over a 10 year period, i n]mentioned it here some time ago.
    Anyway the land owner terminated the lease. An application has being lodged to plant the piece of land with Native Irish trees and a fruit orchard which will be adjacent to the family home.
    The very people who had no problem with the piece of land being neglected, they are now lodging an objection to this proposal...


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  • #42
    MacDanger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    _Brian wrote: »
    I don’t agree with removing hedges like this.
    But.

    Domestic hedges aren’t covered by the moratorium on hedge cutting during the closed season. It’s very possible no laws have been broken here.

    Apparently not according to this:

    https://greennews.ie/closedseason-hedgerow-cutting2020/


  • #43
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    a friend of mine had a similar issue with a neighbour at the back of the house
    cut down hedging and trees, tried to annexe part of the garden where the plants had once grown

    it ended up in court
    be very careful with this and get the proper advice


  • #44
    Ladybird25
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Ladybird25


    Very sad to read this as well, I understand how you may have got attached to that piece of life so close to yourself. I do not understand however, why they got permission to remove the edge if they are not going to extend the wall or build in that bit.

    I may consult with the Gardai and see if anything can be done, but on the meantime I would concentrate on recovering the bit of nature. You're still in time to plant some new plants and for them to start growing during the summer as someone has commented above.


  • #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    When he builds the wall remove your fence and take in everything up to his wall. Plant whatever you want then, and just never speak to this ignorant neighbor again.


  • #46
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,548 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    I would be absolutely furious over this. The absolute pig-ignorance of it :eek:

    If the roots were on your side of the boundary (and I think you said they were), then I'd be planting new hedging there straight away. Or as close as you can get.

    And I'd be making a complaint to every body, statutory and not, I could think of about it.

    Apart from nature and wildlife concerns, the absolute ignorance to just reef out a mature hedge and leave an unholy mess like that? :mad:


  • #47
    Redchick
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Redchick


    Thank you all so much for all the advice and the words of encouragement. I have phoned the council, local TD's, Guards, Irish Birdwatch, NPWS. Exhausted at this stage but I've done all I can.

    I've been told that he had broken the law and the council or NPWS will have to issue the fine/report.

    I have a young pyracantha hedge planted already - this was chosen with thought for birds and bees etc so I know that in a few years there will be many more nests😊

    In relation the the neighbour...thankfully once his 2mtr wall is built I will never have to see his condescending smirk again!!


  • #48
    Redchick
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Redchick


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Where did he dump the hedging.

    Removed it fully - skip i think.


  • #49
    Redchick
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Redchick


    maestroamado wrote: »
    I just stick this in here and i hope its ok.
    I was involved helping out a relative who's land had being neglected by 3 separate people over a 10 year period, i n]mentioned it here some time ago.
    Anyway the land owner terminated the lease. An application has being lodged to plant the piece of land with Native Irish trees and a fruit orchard which will be adjacent to the family home.
    The very people who had no problem with the piece of land being neglected, they are now lodging an objection to this proposal...

    How silly of them.

    It sounds like it would be fabulous once done, I hope it's approved.


  • #50
    Zardoz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭Zardoz


    _Brian wrote: »
    Domestic hedges aren’t covered by the moratorium on hedge cutting during the closed season. It’s very possible no laws have been broken here.

    Are you sure about that ?

    Its a really horrible thing to do to the wildlife irrespective of the law.


  • #51
    JustAThought
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    Zardoz wrote: »
    Are you sure about that ?

    Its a really horrible thing to do to the wildlife irrespective of the law.

    I had a similar sickening problem recently only they crossed onto my land to do it - criminal trespass. Call the gaurds and get them involved immediately. Destruction of property and criminal treapass. Also take photos of damage on your side and footprints if any.

    I hope seven shades of hell onto the scum that did this to the little birds and you. Is nothing enough for some people. Sickening. Do you know a gaurd or someone who knows one - even better.


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