Refusing to pay for car repairs after incident

Dkhuts · 06-05-2021 9:05pm #1

Here's an interesting one for yous... Had an incident with a Lorry there last week where a brake cylinder came off and hit my car. Agreed with the owner of the truck company that he will pay for the repairs, but here we are 1 week later and he's refusing to pay the full amount staying that "you don't need a hire car, if you want one pay for one yourself".
So anyways decided to go through the insurance route since he's acting this way and I've dash cam footage. Now my problem is, the Lorry is registered up north and I didn't take down his insurance detail (stupid of me yes). I have his contact details, reg of the lorry and dashcam footage. However, having spoke to the gardai they said there not much they can do apart from take a report of the incident as the lorrys NI registered. Having spoken to my insurance, he MUST provide me with his insurance details but alas he's ignoring my phonecalls and messages.
So my question is... Is he won't give me his insurance details, and the gardai don't want to help me out either, what would be the best thing to do? Do I contact the police in Northern Ireland? I'm sure the law is on my side here as I'm the one at a loss here

Eggs For Dinner · 07-05-2021 7:26am

The Motor Insurance Bureau will assist you in obtaining the insurance details of a 'foreign' motorist. They will also assist you with your claim. Alternatively, if you put through a claim under your own policy, your insurer will be able to do this when they go to seek recovery from the 3rd party.

Fann Linn · 07-05-2021 7:35am

So if the cylinder from that NI truck came off and killed a child the Gardai wouldn't be able to do anything either?
My daughter was hit by a bit and run driver last year and €4.5k worth of damage was done to her car.She went to the local station and yer wan looking over the counter said, 'sorry there is no cctv on that roundabout there's nothing we can do'.

Her partner knew a sergeant in the same station and he got something done and in the end my daughter got her car fixed by the same clown that hit her.

Gardai can and do have regular contact with the PSNI. The only thing that's missing in the OPs case is a willingness by the Garda to do it.

Turbohymac · 07-05-2021 7:40am

I think op you should have called the gardai immediately after the accident..even as independent witnesses..as the other poster mentioned if you go through your own insurance company its most likely that they won't bother trying to chase up the truck's insurance company..
Therefore it would be simply a claim against your own policy..not good.

Insurance bureau is probably better avenue..
As it stands other than your dashcam footage..the owner can easily say it never happened..
Gardai should always be called..even if it was the opposite and you were at fault it's much better to have independent witnesses..

Del2005 · 07-05-2021 7:44am

Turbohymac wrote: »

I think op you should have called the gardai immediately after the accident..even as independent witnesses..as the other poster mentioned if you go through your own insurance company its most likely that they won't bother trying to chase up the truck's insurance company..
Therefore it would be simply a claim against your own policy..not good.

Insurance bureau is probably better avenue..
As it stands other than your dashcam footage..the owner can easily say it never happened..
Gardai should always be called..even if it was the opposite and you were at fault it's much better to have independent witnesses..

The Gardai can only be a witness if they witness the crash. You can be waiting a long time for them to turn up for a fender bender.

OP give your insurance a call they should be able to chase up the other drivers insurance, it's what you pay them for.

Del2005 · 07-05-2021 7:46am

Fann Linn wrote: »

So if the cylinder from that NI truck came off and killed a child the Gardai wouldn't be able to do anything either?

If you hit an animal on the road you have to report it to the station, if you hit a person they will respond. Different incidents get different levels of response.

T-Maxx · 07-05-2021 8:01am

Claiming for a rental car is extracting the urine though.

Vestiapx · 07-05-2021 8:07am

T-Maxx wrote: »

Claiming for a rental car is extracting the urine though.

So how does the op get places while the car is in the shop? I'd see your point if they were claiming pain and suffering or trauma but a rental is perfectly normal.

Markcheese · 07-05-2021 8:07am

T-Maxx wrote: »

Claiming for a rental car is extracting the urine though.

Not when your car is off the road being repaired ....

sgthighway · 07-05-2021 8:13am

T-Maxx wrote: »

Claiming for a rental car is extracting the urine though.

I would not survive without the convenience of my car. That is why i own one. Why should I not hire a replacement. One day cost me €50 in cabs which was cash out of my own pocket. Plus you have to wait. I would be getting a hire car if my car was off the road due to someone elses fault. I wouldnt be out to screw anybody. The smallest car would suit me despite me having a big car.

Dkhuts · 07-05-2021 10:32am

Appreciate your feedback everyone. Gonna try cally insurance again to see what they say. Also going down to the garda station later to provide file a report of the incident.
As a few of you may have said, the gardai should be the ones who chase this up considering it is their job. Otherwise it is through the insurance bureu but that is a long process and I do want this sorted as soon as possible considering I need a car to travel to work (200km round trip).

Henry Ford III · 07-05-2021 10:57am

Dkhuts wrote: »

Appreciate your feedback everyone. Gonna try cally insurance again to see what they say. Also going down to the garda station later to provide file a report of the incident.
As a few of you may have said, the gardai should be the ones who chase this up considering it is their job. Otherwise it is through the insurance bureu but that is a long process and I do want this sorted as soon as possible considering I need a car to travel to work (200km round trip).

It's not the function of the Gardai to chase up on small car crashes. They are really a civil matter.

You made a big mistake letting the other driver go without getting their insurance details.

MBI is where you should go to find the 3rd party's details, as you've already been told.

coylemj · 07-05-2021 12:02pm

Dkhuts wrote: »

Here's an interesting one for yous... Had an incident with a Lorry there last week where a brake cylinder came off and hit my car. Agreed with the owner of the truck company that he will pay for the repairs ......

Usually ends in tears. Always take his insurance details as backup.

Because an endless series of threads here says he will not come up with the cash. Or he will dispute your estimate. Or he will stop communicating with you. Or (as in this case) all three.

Witcher · 07-05-2021 1:52pm

Dkhuts wrote: »

Appreciate your feedback everyone. Gonna try cally insurance again to see what they say. Also going down to the garda station later to provide file a report of the incident.
As a few of you may have said, the gardai should be the ones who chase this up considering it is their job. Otherwise it is through the insurance bureu but that is a long process and I do want this sorted as soon as possible considering I need a car to travel to work (200km round trip).

Make sure you tell the Gardai it's their job to fix your mess.

That'll go well...be ran out of the station:pac:

Car99 · 07-05-2021 1:58pm

Dkhuts wrote: »

Here's an interesting one for yous... Had an incident with a Lorry there last week where a brake cylinder came off and hit my car. Agreed with the owner of the truck company that he will pay for the repairs, but here we are 1 week later and he's refusing to pay the full amount staying that "you don't need a hire car, if you want one pay for one yourself".
So anyways decided to go through the insurance route since he's acting this way and I've dash cam footage. Now my problem is, the Lorry is registered up north and I didn't take down his insurance detail (stupid of me yes). I have his contact details, reg of the lorry and dashcam footage. However, having spoke to the gardai they said there not much they can do apart from take a report of the incident as the lorrys NI registered. Having spoken to my insurance, he MUST provide me with his insurance details but alas he's ignoring my phonecalls and messages.
So my question is... Is he won't give me his insurance details, and the gardai don't want to help me out either, what would be the best thing to do? Do I contact the police in Northern Ireland? I'm sure the law is on my side here as I'm the one at a loss here

Do you know the name of the haulage company ? Are they large ?

jimmycrackcorm · 07-05-2021 2:00pm

Dkhuts wrote: »

Appreciate your feedback everyone. Gonna try cally insurance again to see what they say. Also going down to the garda station later to provide file a report of the incident.
As a few of you may have said, the gardai should be the ones who chase this up considering it is their job. Otherwise it is through the insurance bureu but that is a long process and I do want this sorted as soon as possible considering I need a car to travel to work (200km round trip).

The Gardai might not do anything because it is going to be determined as a civil matter. You really should have called them at the time or gotten the driver's insurance details then. Be careful going through your own insurance also as it may get classed as a claim by you and will affect your NCB and future insurance quotes.

You mentioned that the lorry owner will pay for the repairs. Some garages will provide a courtesy car during the repair.

anplaya27 · 07-05-2021 2:27pm

Del2005 wrote: »

The Gardai can only be a witness if they witness the crash. You can be waiting a long time for them to turn up for a fender bender.

OP give your insurance a call they should be able to chase up the other drivers insurance, it's what you pay them for.

Turned up after 10 mins for me before when a women was falsely claiming I reversed into her. She had her daughter recording the situation, and was on the phone to someone ( her husband I think). I text someone to ring the local garda station as I didnt feel comfortable as I coukdnt understand what they were saying ( im a Deaf Irish Sign Language user) and it was obvious they were going about attempting to make a false accusation. Guards came, I explained, they told me not to worry and could see I had done nothing. No mark's on either car etc.They told me to contact my insurance and to get them to ring the station which they did and the guards backed me up. Claim didnt go any further. Insurance assessor basically told me it was a scam. They were waiting in car park waiting for people to reverse, as soon as you got close to their car they blared the horn and acted like you hit it.

Dkhuts · 07-05-2021 2:27pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The Gardai might not do anything because it is going to be determined as a civil matter. You really should have called them at the time or gotten the driver's insurance details then. Be careful going through your own insurance also as it may get classed as a claim by you and will affect your NCB and future insurance quotes.

You mentioned that the lorry owner will pay for the repairs. Some garages will provide a courtesy car during the repair.

I won't be going through my insurance no way. It's the repair garage that is providing the courtesy car but obviously there's a charge for it and your man doesn't want to pay

Dkhuts · 07-05-2021 2:28pm

Car99 wrote: »

Do you know the name of the haulage company ? Are they large ?

I don't unfortunately know i've only got his name and contact

lawred2 · 07-05-2021 2:30pm

T-Maxx wrote: »

Claiming for a rental car is extracting the urine though.

Huh?

mickdw · 07-05-2021 2:33pm

So sounds like the best plan when living in Ireland is to drive a uk reg and be responsible for nothing. No need to bother with tax or insurance - sure nothing on the windscreen anyway and if gardai cannot trace anything out of the 26 counties, its a free for all.

Dkhuts · 07-05-2021 2:40pm

mickdw wrote: »

So sounds like the best plan when living in Ireland is to drive a uk reg and be responsible for nothing. No need to bother with tax or insurance - sure nothing on the windscreen anyway and if gardai cannot trace anything out of the 26 counties, its a free for all.

Yeah with parts flying off your car hitting everyone as you pass them along ðŸ˜‚ seems that way by the looks of it

Del2005 · 07-05-2021 2:55pm

mickdw wrote: »

So sounds like the best plan when living in Ireland is to drive a uk reg and be responsible for nothing. No need to bother with tax or insurance - sure nothing on the windscreen anyway and if gardai cannot trace anything out of the 26 counties, its a free for all.

If the OP had done what they are supposed to do in an RTC, exchange details, then your plan falls through! Plenty of people drinking Irish reg don't take responsibility for anything driving without tax, NCT and insurance.

The only problem with the UK, and every other countries insurance, is that there's nothing on the screen to take a picture of to get the other driver's insurance details.

tcawley29 · 07-05-2021 3:20pm

Why don't you chance your arm by leaving a message saying you have the insurance details now and this is the final chance to pay up before you submit a claim.

It's not much but hopefully it scares them

coylemj · 07-05-2021 3:59pm

tcawley29 wrote: »

Why don't you chance your arm by leaving a message saying you have the insurance details now and this is the final chance to pay up before you submit a claim.

A fatal flaw in that plan is that if the OP somehow managed to obtain the insurance details, he would now be able to bypass the driver and not be wasting his time leaving idle threats on his voicemail.

T-Maxx · 07-05-2021 4:09pm

Vestiapx wrote: »

So how does the op get places while the car is in the shop? I'd see your point if they were claiming pain and suffering or trauma but a rental is perfectly normal.

If it's covered by the insurance policy and the claim is on said policy, then grand. But the other driver agreed to pay for the damage, not a rental as well.

Car99 · 07-05-2021 5:59pm

Dkhuts wrote: »

I don't unfortunately know i've only got his name and contact

That's a pity, it would be interesting to see what social media presence they had. Im sure someone would know the outfit if you posted your video there.

Del2005 · 07-05-2021 8:30pm

Looks like the OP needs to contact the MIBI to claim against a foreign reg vehicle

mickdw · 07-05-2021 8:41pm

Del2005 wrote: »

If the OP had done what they are supposed to do in an RTC, exchange details, then your plan falls through! Plenty of people drinking Irish reg don't take responsibility for anything driving without tax, NCT and insurance.

The only problem with the UK, and every other countries insurance, is that there's nothing on the screen to take a picture of to get the other driver's insurance details.

How do you exchange details with a uk driver if they dont communicate. Gardai will not always turn up to minor accidents and nothing on the windscreen.

Del2005 · 08-05-2021 12:28am

mickdw wrote: »

How do you exchange details with a uk driver if they dont communicate. Gardai will not always turn up to minor accidents and nothing on the windscreen.

You call the Gardaí if they won't communicate, that's now an offence as they are refusing to share the details they are required to by law.

But that's not what happened the OP. The driver did communicate and said that they'd pay, so the OP never tool their insurance details. Now the boss is refusing to communicate

jimmycrackcorm · 08-05-2021 12:41am

Del2005 wrote: »

Looks like the OP needs to contact the MIBI to claim against a foreign reg vehicle

If the OP has a protected NCB then it's a good plan to follow through:

"If your vehicle is comprehensively insured, or your property is covered under a policy of insurance, you may claim for loss from your comprehensive insurer or the property insurer. The insurer can, in turn, recover their outlay from MIBI, as Green Card Bureau. This ensures a minimum of inconvenience and loss. This facility is subject to confirmation of the validity of the registration plate of the alleged offending vehicle. Your No Claims Bonus may be affected until the claim has been settled by the MIBI. Once settled your insurer should re-instate your No Claims Bonus as it was before the accident."

The other party doesn't want to go through their insurance - hence why they won't pay car hire, but I'd be telling them that it is going to go through their insurance via the MIBI so they can take either take the hit on their renewals for the next 5 years or pay up directly. The increased renewals will work out more expensive for them.

However, you'd need confirmation that your insurer will go through the MIBI.

mickdw · 08-05-2021 1:08am

Del2005 wrote: »

You call the Gardaí if they won't communicate, that's now an offence as they are refusing to share the details they are required to by law.

But that's not what happened the OP. The driver did communicate and said that they'd pay, so the OP never tool their insurance details. Now the boss is refusing to communicate

Yes but in the general case. Its not realistic to think that gardai will attend at the scene of minor accidents so if a driver is awkward or gives slightly wrong details by mistake, what then? Gardai showing no interest!

08-05-2021 1:09am

Perhaps i missed it, but can you not just engage the PSNI? Surely they'll get on the case and get the details for you. They're generally a bit less Father Ted-like in their approach to policing, compared to the Gardai.

Vestiapx wrote: »

So how does the op get places while the car is in the shop

"shop" :rolleyes:

Jim2007 · 08-05-2021 1:11am

Markcheese wrote: »

Not when your car is off the road being repaired ....

According to the OP, the agreement was to cover the repairs... paying for a rental car cannot be just included without agreement.

Vestiapx · 08-05-2021 1:39am

Deleted User wrote: »

"shop" :rolleyes:

?

Del2005 · 08-05-2021 2:58am

mickdw wrote: »

Yes but in the general case. Its not realistic to think that gardai will attend at the scene of minor accidents so if a driver is awkward or gives slightly wrong details by mistake, what then? Gardai showing no interest!

The Gardaí won't turn up for a fender bender as it's civil matter and a low priority. If an offence is committed it's becomes a higher priority which they will respond, someone not sharing the required details after an RTC is an offence.

AndrewJRenko · 08-05-2021 12:50pm

Do they have insurance discs in NI/UK? If you have an address for the business, you could take a trip and see if you can discretely walk past the truck with a little camera and snap the details on the disc.

The Continental Op · 08-05-2021 12:51pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do they have insurance discs in NI/UK? If you have an address for the business, you could take a trip and see if you can discretely walk past the truck with a little camera and snap the details on the disc.

Don't know about trucks but UK reg cars have nothing displayed on the windscreen anymore. Cops know if you are taxed and insured just from your reg.

jimmycrackcorm · 08-05-2021 1:18pm

Deleted User wrote:

Perhaps i missed it, but can you not just engage the PSNI? Surely they'll get on the case and get the details for you. They're generally a bit less Father Ted-like in their approach to policing, compared to the Gardai.

The PSNI won't get involved as it happened outside their jurisdiction.

Del2005 wrote:

The GardaÃ won't turn up for a fender bender as it's civil matter and a low priority. If an offence is committed it's becomes a higher priority which they will respond, someone not sharing the required details after an RTC is an offence.

They would if it was a case that the other driver wouldn't provide any details of insurance as that's an offence.

coylemj · 08-05-2021 2:47pm

Del2005 wrote: »

....someone not sharing the required details after an RTC is an offence.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

They would if it was a case that the other driver wouldn't provide any details of insurance as that's an offence.

Let's be clear that in this case, no offence was committed. It's up to each side to demand the other person's details and if you don't (as happened here), you can be left high and dry.

Responsibilities after an accident....

(c) the driver of the vehicle or, if he is killed or incapacitated, the person then in charge of the vehicle shall give on demand the appropriate information to a member of the Garda Síochána or, if no such member is present, to one person entitled under this section to demand such information;

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/106/enacted/en/html#sec106

Dkhuts · 10-05-2021 1:28pm

Update on the situation, the owner of the company finally called me back and agreed to pay for the repairs, but not cover the hire car. As many of you said, he technically only agreed to pay for the repairs (even though the repair company provide a hire car at an extra charge), but considering I've been without a car for over a week now I thought that he'd do the decent thing and cover the hire car cost.
The only issue remaining is he refuses to pay tax as he's in northern ireland (again I'm not sure about how all this works), and that he said he'll pay the repair company once the work is done. Worst case scenario, he refuses to pay for the repairs after they're completed (even though he previously agreed) and in that case I'd assume it's a 'go through courts and insurance' job then

Car99 · 10-05-2021 2:39pm

Dkhuts wrote: »

Update on the situation, the owner of the company finally called me back and agreed to pay for the repairs, but not cover the hire car. As many of you said, he technically only agreed to pay for the repairs (even though the repair company provide a hire car at an extra charge), but considering I've been without a car for over a week now I thought that he'd do the decent thing and cover the hire car cost.
The only issue remaining is he refuses to pay tax as he's in northern ireland (again I'm not sure about how all this works), and that he said he'll pay the repair company once the work is done. Worst case scenario, he refuses to pay for the repairs after they're completed (even though he previously agreed) and in that case I'd assume it's a 'go through courts and insurance' job then

He'll be able to avoid vat if he pays the repair garage direct from his VAT registered NI business.

Schorpio · 10-05-2021 2:41pm

Dkhuts wrote: »

Update on the situation, the owner of the company finally called me back and agreed to pay for the repairs, but not cover the hire car. As many of you said, he technically only agreed to pay for the repairs (even though the repair company provide a hire car at an extra charge), but considering I've been without a car for over a week now I thought that he'd do the decent thing and cover the hire car cost.
The only issue remaining is he refuses to pay tax as he's in northern ireland (again I'm not sure about how all this works), and that he said he'll pay the repair company once the work is done. Worst case scenario, he refuses to pay for the repairs after they're completed (even though he previously agreed) and in that case I'd assume it's a 'go through courts and insurance' job then

I know I'm probably stating the obvious.....but this is so messy.

What tax is he refusing to pay? VAT on the repair? Just because he's in NI, the VAT will still be due on the work carried out, and he would be liable to pay for it if funding the repair. Being in NI makes no difference. This isn't the delivery of goods we're taking about.

If he doesn't pay, how confident are you of taking things through the courts, and the costs/stress associated with all of that. Even then, they may say that you should have gone through insurance day 1, as that is technically what it's there for.

I know you have said that you don't want to go through insurance, but if I were you I would 100% be having a chat with my insurer at the very least. If you have dashcam footage of the incident, I would be surprised if it counted as a claim on your own policy. Your insurer may be able to recover the costs. Either way, they will know what the situation is - not us here.

seagull · 10-05-2021 3:30pm

He's acting the maggot. Why would you want to do him any favours at this stage? Get his insurance details, and go that route. You shouldn't be left out of pocket by not going through insurance. Insurance will generally pay for car hire while your car is off the road.

Dkhuts · 10-05-2021 5:34pm

Schorpio wrote: »

I know I'm probably stating the obvious.....but this is so messy.

What tax is he refusing to pay? VAT on the repair? Just because he's in NI, the VAT will still be due on the work carried out, and he would be liable to pay for it if funding the repair. Being in NI makes no difference. This isn't the delivery of goods we're taking about.

If he doesn't pay, how confident are you of taking things through the courts, and the costs/stress associated with all of that. Even then, they may say that you should have gone through insurance day 1, as that is technically what it's there for.

I know you have said that you don't want to go through insurance, but if I were you I would 100% be having a chat with my insurer at the very least. If you have dashcam footage of the incident, I would be surprised if it counted as a claim on your own policy. Your insurer may be able to recover the costs. Either way, they will know what the situation is - not us here.

Yeah the VAT on the repairs. I spoke to the repair garage owner and said that's fine, apparently he is exempt. The only issue of going through insurance is he won't give he his insurance details, and if I go through mibi it can take up to 6 weeks to get them, which is too long for me to be without a car (assuming car won't get repaired until all insurance matters are sorted). The repair garage owner is on my side, so I've a feeling the truck company owner won't muck about anymore

Eggs For Dinner · 11-05-2021 7:14am

As I said before, contact the MIBI with his reg number, they will obtain his insurance details for you

Henry Ford III · 15-05-2021 1:48pm

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

As I said before, contact the MIBI with his reg number, they will obtain his insurance details for you

This is the only way to go.

It takes out all the uncertainties and stress. The full cost of the claim will be met - including VAT and car hire if deemed appropriate.

It takes the ability to act the bollix completely away from the 3rd party.

Markcheese · 15-05-2021 6:00pm

Id formally ask for his insurance details now , just because you didnt ask for them on the road side doesn't mean you can't ask for them now , and I'd imagine his refusal to give you the details would still be an offence - do you have the reg number of the truck ?

Refusing to pay for car repairs after incident

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