2021 Players Championship, Feb 22-28

gormdubhgorm · 28-02-2021 1:24pm

I think John Higgins and Ronnie O'Sullivan are freaks of snooker nature.
It is getting to the point where I am starting to think of rating Higgins above Hendry. In overall snooker players of all time , with Ronnie no1. If Higgins manages to get another world title there would not be much in it - imo.

Ronnie got better with age and found cop on and tactical nous - which I never would have predicted to be honest.

Higgins just stayed as Higgins always had that solid foundation. He played like an auld fella tactically, when he was a young fella.

I can't imagine the likes of Trump maintaining a high standard when he hits his 40's.
For most snooker players I think it is just a case of life getting in the way of snooker.
Kids, family, priorities changing and their level of commitment dips. Or on the second or third marriage.

Joe_ Public · 28-02-2021 1:48pm

I think there are two ways of looking at this. You can say these veterans are freakish talents, so good that they can maintain a standard that those coming through just cant consistently match. Or you could argue the younger generation just isnt up to it and a weaker challenge has allowed the older stagers to keep going at the top longer than they had probably anticipated. Mentally they'll always have the edge anyway, the current generation will never better them for tough matchplay snooker because i don't believe they condition themselves to play that way anymore. Trump is exempt from that charge, of course, but if kyren wilson, and no disrespect, but if kyren is considered the next best of those who have emerged within the past decade or more, then i think it's no wonder a guy like higgins would be asking himself, why should i be fearing any of these guys anymore? No reason whatsoever from what i can see.

Joe_ Public · 28-02-2021 1:52pm

As for todays match, i'd always be fancying ronnie this stage of their careers, but higgins has definitely hit a purple patch over past number of weeks, changes in his game and setup appear to have reaped dividends so its a close enough call and betting in favour of ronnie but not that clearcut. Set up pretty nicely all told.

gormdubhgorm · 28-02-2021 1:59pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I think there are two ways of looking at this. You can say these veterans are freakish talents, so good that they can maintain a standard that those coming through just cant consistently match. Or you could argue the younger generation just isnt up to it and a weaker challenge has allowed the older stagers to keep going at the top longer than they had probably anticipated. Mentally they'll always have the edge anyway, the current generation will never better them for tough matchplay snooker because i don't believe they condition themselves to play that way anymore. Trump is exempt from that charge, of course, but if kyren wilson, and no disrespect, but if kyren is considered the next best of those who have emerged within the past decade or more, then i think it's no wonder a guy like higgins would be asking himself, why should i be fearing any of these guys anymore? No reason whatsoever from what i can see.

Kyren has a bit of flakiness about him alright. Tends to get very emotional. Would hardly describe him as 'ruthless'.

Joe_ Public wrote: »

As for todays match, i'd always be fancying ronnie this stage of their careers, but higgins has definitely hit a purple patch over past number of weeks, changes in his game and setup appear to have reaped dividends so its a close enough call and betting in favour of ronnie but not that clearcut. Set up pretty nicely all told.

Hopefully it is a last frame decider job.

Joe_ Public · 28-02-2021 2:03pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Kyren has a bit of flakiness about him alright. Tends to get very emotional. Would hardly describe him as 'ruthless'.

Gives me no pleasure to say it, but it is the truth. I never got the impression he ever believed he could live with ronnie that world final, never really looked a contest. Maybe he can develop that hard streak, he's young yet, but i suspect yan and maybe others might overtake him.

Arthur Daley · 28-02-2021 2:17pm

Just as I was hinting at the beginning of the end for the class of 92, and a changing of the guard, Ronnie and Higgins meet in a ranking final for the first time since 2005.

And Hendry is back on tour Tuesday night.

zuutroy · 28-02-2021 3:23pm

Good chance this could be 10-0.

gormdubhgorm · 28-02-2021 3:34pm

zuutroy wrote: »

Good chance this could be 10-0.

Surely Ronnie will kick into some gear. For pride alone. 10-6 maybe.

Joe_ Public · 28-02-2021 3:55pm

Giving barry hawkins a 3-0 lead was one thing, but higgins a 5 frame lead, even over bo19, is something else. Of course ronnies capable of flicking a switch and before you know it, it's 3-5. But if higgins simply keeps refusing to miss, ronnie just cant afford to make any mistakes at all.

Holy Diver · 28-02-2021 4:03pm

I just can’t understand why Ronnie has started to change his game depending on who he’s playing. Lack of confidence in his ability to beat certain players has crept into his game. Most recently it’s been Selby but doing the same today with some ridiculous shot choices. He should stick to his own game.

TheHopeful · 28-02-2021 4:26pm

Holy Diver wrote: »

I just can’t understand why Ronnie has started to change his game depending on who he’s playing. Lack of confidence in his ability to beat certain players has crept into his game. Most recently it’s been Selby but doing the same today with some ridiculous shot choices. He should stick to his own game.

Ya it's very frustrating to watch. Going for far too many hail mary shots. If he keeps going for everything then it will be a canter for Higgins.

ziggyman17 · 28-02-2021 4:35pm

O'Sullivan has thrown the towel in here, when up against it against the best he does not have the stomach for the fight,

Arthur Daley · 28-02-2021 4:39pm

Could be a bit premature writing him off. I think it's his way of playing himself back into it.

TheHopeful · 28-02-2021 4:46pm

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Could be a bit premature writing him off. I think it's his way of playing himself back into it.

What the hell is he at?! He's got no chance playing every low percentage pot. He might get the odd one, but he's going to gift far too many to Higgins.

Arthur Daley · 28-02-2021 4:48pm

He did a number on Selby playing like this in ths World semi final last August. I love watching him try these shots. Could be too far behind already though.

ziggyman17 · 28-02-2021 4:55pm

he needed that last frame of this session, to stand a chance, O'Sullivan needs to win at least 3 of the first 4 frames of tonight's session, that would put him with in 2 of Higgins and put a bit of pressure on Higgins after having such a great start,

Joe_ Public · 28-02-2021 5:00pm

Having praised his attitude over the week, cant say much for it today. Dont know if it was part of the plan to go kamikaze or whether it just developed that way, but it either shows a mental frailty or else he just doesn't care about the tournament. Should have learned not to bother ever trying to work him out of course and he did tell us a couple of times that he wasnt interested in getting drawn into a battle. So no reason to be shocked about it either. Still won't write him off just yet, mind!

Rothko · 28-02-2021 5:15pm

If Ronnie ends up winning this final, I think it would have to be considered amongst some of his greatest ever comebacks. Although, I think he will have to win the first one or two frames of the evening session to stand a chance.

TheHopeful · 28-02-2021 6:35pm

Rothko wrote: »

If Ronnie ends up winning this final, I think it would have to be considered amongst some of his greatest ever comebacks. Although, I think he will have to win the first one or two frames of the evening session to stand a chance.

The only way he has any chance of a comeback is if he changes tactics and plays the percentages imo. If he keeps refusing to play safety shots he hadn't a hope.

That double attempt on the yellow in the 7th frame was beyond ludicrous.

Brian? · 28-02-2021 6:37pm

TheHopeful wrote: »

The only way he has any chance of a comeback is if he changes tactics and plays the percentages imo. If he keeps refusing to play safety shots he hadn't a hope.

That double attempt on the yellow in the 7th frame was beyond ludicrous.

Higgins had him destroyed mentally this afternoon. I can see a whole different Ronnie showing up tonight.

Or Ronnie continues to be **** and we're all in bed early.

zuutroy · 28-02-2021 7:21pm

He's mad. Though there might be something in his cavalier approach, as Higgins started to wobble a bit toward the end of the session. Took it too far with that yellow though. Had a legit chance at escaping 5-3 with absolutely no business doing so.
I'd imagine in the interview Ronnie will just say nobody can beat John in the form so I just wanted a quick death, and again there's some truth to that.

Arthur Daley · 28-02-2021 7:35pm

Higgins may wobble a bit more with Ronnie in his mirror. He hasn't won a ranking event in three years and that includes a loss in two world finals and the masters final last month. He was obviously good enough to win, but just struggled to get over the line and that may be a factor here yet.

This could be an excellent finale tonight.

Joe_ Public · 28-02-2021 7:44pm

Its only human to try but ultimately i think its all but futile to try figure out ronnies thought processes. To go from taking 2 minutes to play a basic safety shot while a couple up on poor jack lisowski to playing that ridiculously cavalier yellow while 4 down against john higgins just completely evades all rational logic. Not as pronounced as of yore, but streak of self sabotage still pops its head occasionally. Could still reel off a few frames yet and make it interesting but dont see higgins wobbling that badly.

ziggyman17 · 28-02-2021 8:21pm

I hate Higgins ( I feel bad typing that ) but that newspaper stink left a bad taste in my mouth. he should have been banned for life,

Rothko · 28-02-2021 8:25pm

TheHopeful wrote: »

The only way he has any chance of a comeback is if he changes tactics and plays the percentages imo. If he keeps refusing to play safety shots he hadn't a hope.

That double attempt on the yellow in the 7th frame was beyond ludicrous.

Yeah, that shot on the yellow was nonsensical. Don't get why he did that at all.

zuutroy · 28-02-2021 8:29pm

Once he gets in he's golden but the rest of his game is in ribbons.

Joe_ Public · 28-02-2021 8:32pm

Was doing this against brown too wasnt he, sweeping up with some wonderful breaks but winning none of the scrappy frames.

weemcd · 28-02-2021 8:48pm

I severely doubt there's any way back for Ronnie.

Higgins near flawless in his current form.

waynescales1 · 28-02-2021 8:57pm

Harsh on O’Sullivan. His game just hasn’t been there today, and he’s up against an opponent in immense form. Hard to commit to playing the right shot every time under those circumstances.

Brian? · 28-02-2021 9:03pm

ziggyman17 wrote: »

I hate Higgins ( I feel bad typing that ) but that newspaper stink left a bad taste in my mouth. he should have been banned for life,

I love Higgins. Phenomenal player. My all time favourite. He never threw a frame or match. If he had, then he deserved a long ban.

Joe_ Public · 28-02-2021 9:17pm

waynescales1 wrote: »

Harsh on O’Sullivan. His game just hasn’t been there today, and he’s up against an opponent in immense form. Hard to commit to playing the right shot every time under those circumstances.

Thats fair, yellow apart there hasnt been that much extreme craziness, he's been outplayed and can easily rationalise it as just meeting a world class player on a going day and not a lot he could do. I doubt he'll be too distraught if he does go to lose as seems inevitable. Losing a lot of finals but still playing well in the main and i think it should be all about the worlds and catching hendry at this stage for ronnie. All the rest is just window dressing. At least i hope he might be thinking along those lines at least!

waynescales1 · 28-02-2021 9:22pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Thats fair, yellow apart there hasnt been that much extreme craziness, he's been outplayed and can easily rationalise it as just meeting a world class player on a going day and not a lot he could do. I doubt he'll be too distraught if he does go to lose as seems inevitable. Losing a lot of finals but still playing well in the main and i think it should be all about the worlds and catching hendry at this stage for ronnie. All the rest is just window dressing. At least i hope he might be thinking along those lines at least!

I was thinking something similar. The WC is arguably more significant than all the other tournaments combined. And yeah win % records etc. are nice but really not that important. He’s playing pretty well and the WC is only just around the corner.

Joe_ Public · 28-02-2021 9:31pm

waynescales1 wrote: »

I was thinking something similar. The WC is arguably more significant than all the other tournaments combined. And yeah win % records etc. are nice but really not that important. He’s playing pretty well and the WC is only just around the corner.

Yeah , i dont think he likes to give away much about it, but deep down i think he cares passionately about his legacy and getting to 7 world titles would be absolutely huge in terms of that. I take it on trust he's gotta be hugely up for that and thats what his recent motivation, all the increased practice hours with Martin Gould, is all about. We'll see, i suppose.

Rothko · 28-02-2021 9:34pm

Well done Higgins. Nobody can argue that he doesn't deserve it. Top class all week.

gormdubhgorm · 28-02-2021 9:43pm

Rothko wrote: »

Well done Higgins. Nobody can argue that he doesn't deserve it. Top class all week.

Yeah, it would be incredible stuff at any age. But to do that at 45 is extra special.

Has to be the worst name for a sponsor I have heard though!

zuutroy · 28-02-2021 9:49pm

Rob Walker is a bit painful. Not everything is the best thing that's ever happened.

waynescales1 · 28-02-2021 9:54pm

zuutroy wrote: »

Rob Walker is a bit painful. Not everything is the best thing that's ever happened.

He’s unbearable.

Rothko · 28-02-2021 10:02pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah, it would be incredible stuff at any age. But to do that at 45 is extra special.

Has to be the worst name for a sponsor I have heard though!

Yeah, even the boarding looks horrible, really cheap and tacky.

Joe_ Public · 28-02-2021 10:02pm

Imagine having to share a breakfast table with rob walker every morning, i get impression theres no off switch with him, can picture him introducing the family into the kitchen one by one.

Conversely, i think Jill is an excellent host but picking a double as your shot of the week is a total no no. It was basically a shot to nothing as well. Hendry was diplomatic but clearly unimpressed.

waynescales1 · 28-02-2021 10:15pm

Rothko wrote: »

Yeah, even the boarding looks horrible, really cheap and tacky.

The name is awful. But then I read that the company is to go on sale, with an expected valuation of £5-6 billion. The chap who owns it also created that real estate company Zoopla. The guy seems to have a fascination with zoos.

Spudman_20000 · 28-02-2021 11:29pm

Very disappointing from Ronnie. Kinda feels like he didn't believe he could win, so didn't even try. Almost as if he'd rather lose not trying rather than give his all and still get beaten by a player in God mode.

robinwing · 01-03-2021 1:58am

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

Very disappointing from Ronnie. Kinda feels like he didn't believe he could win, so didn't even try. Almost as if he'd rather lose not trying rather than give his all and still get beaten by a player in God mode.

Ronnie is only warming up for the Worlds .He does not want to peak too soon . He wants the 7th title. Badly . So you are correct

Brian? · 01-03-2021 8:17am

waynescales1 wrote: »

The name is awful. But then I read that the company is to go on sale, with an expected valuation of £5-6 billion. The chap who owns it also created that real estate company Zoopla. The guy seems to have a fascination with zoos.

I think it's great to see a tournament not sponsored by a bettinf company. I can see the bettinf sponsorship going the same was as the tabacoo sponsorship, which nearly killed snooker.

Also, Cazoo sponsor both Villa and Everton so they are pumping huge money into sport.

gormdubhgorm · 01-03-2021 12:13pm

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

Very disappointing from Ronnie. Kinda feels like he didn't believe he could win, so didn't even try. Almost as if he'd rather lose not trying rather than give his all and still get beaten by a player in God mode.

I think it was Ken that said Ronnie played similar to how he did v Selby in the World SF. Just going for it. I suppose there is an argument it nearly worked again. Just half sparked into life and did not get that run of three/four frames in a row going.

Brian? · 01-03-2021 12:28pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think it was Ken that said Ronnie played similar to how he did v Selby in the World SF. Just going for it. I suppose there is an argument it nearly worked again. Just half sparked into life and did not get that run of three/four frames in a row going.

It's east to criticise Ronnie. But no one else won more than 1 frame against Higgins. Not being white washed was almost an achievement in itself. I honestly think that's the best tournament he's ever played. White washing Selby is an unbelievable feat.

Has anyone ever been as dominant over a whole tournament as Higgins was last week? I can't think of one.

Joe_ Public · 01-03-2021 12:50pm

Was looking over a few of the archives. There are a few dominant performances by hendry alright but a struggle to find anything clearly better than higgins all last week. Hendry won the 1990 Dubai Classic conceding 5 frames the whole tournament, playing two more rounds than higgins, beating decent players like Foulds, Robidoux, Hallett amd thumping then main rival Steve Davis 9-1 in the final. I supppse that might come pretty close.

FR01 · 01-03-2021 2:33pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Imagine having to share a breakfast table with rob walker every morning, i get impression theres no off switch with him, can picture him introducing the family into the kitchen one by one.

Conversely, i think Jill is an excellent host but picking a double as your shot of the week is a total no no. It was basically a shot to nothing as well. Hendry was diplomatic but clearly unimpressed.

I’ve been in Rob Walkers company a few times and he’s completely different to the tv side, lovely fella with a genuine zest for life 👍

Strumms · 01-03-2021 2:52pm

Across the 4 matches in the players championship, Higgins lost only 4 frames..

Considering two of his opponents were former world champions and one is probably recognized as the greatest player the sport has produced, that’s some going...

2021 Players Championship, Feb 22-28

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