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New patio cracked

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  • 18-06-2019 9:13pm
    #1
    D3V!L
    Registered Users Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭


    We just had a 65 sq patio installed about 3 weeks ago. It was done in a lovely sand coloured concrete tile.
    I understand there is a certain amount of settlement needed but should I be seeing tiles rock still ? Also there are 3 now with cracks going right through them as well as what I can see as a slight bit of subsidence along one wall.
    I got it done through a company who advertised quite professional work on Facebook and had good feedback.


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    #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Get them back to fix it. On a side note, why does any one take face book as a recommendation?


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    #3
    keithdub
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭keithdub


    There should be very little settlement it should of been whacked down. It sounds shoddy workmanship


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    #4
    D3V!L
    Registered Users Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    keithdub wrote: »
    There should be very little settlement it should of been whacked down. It sounds shoddy workmanship

    Are the tiles meant to be whacked down or just the substrate ?


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    #5
    keithdub
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭keithdub


    No not the tiles the 804 (rocks they put on the ground) and Facebook isn't the best place to read feed back. They could just have family and friends writing on their page


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    #6
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,475 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Agree with Keithdub.
    Patio slabs should be laid on a compacted substrate.
    A whacker plate should have been used to give a very firm and flat bed.
    Very little settlement and any cracks would IMO be a sign of shoddy workmanship.


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    #7
    D3V!L
    Registered Users Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    keithdub wrote: »
    No not the tiles the 804 (rocks they put on the ground) and Facebook isn't the best place to read feed back. They could just have family and friends writing on their page

    That was done


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    #8
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    804 sub base with a grit blinding layer you should be able to park a car on them. How long did it take to lay?


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    #9
    TheShow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭TheShow


    Was it travellers that did the job?


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    #10
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,619 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    There should be no movement. Certainly not rocking.

    If there is then he foundations were done very poorly.


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    #11
    Glass fused light
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Glass fused light


    Location should be dug out (de-weeded if grass or planting beds) levelled & compacted.
    Add anti weed but not waterproof material (optional)
    Add gravel to allow for drainage level & compact (check the grade used)
    Add sand bed compact this should be very level (check grade)
    1) Add tiles & filler sand
    unless the tiles were different depths (individually thin on one side or a thin one) they should sit flat.
    Cracking is movement based so poor foundations, not level to start / not compacted / water has washed the sand into the gravel.

    2) mix concrete lay dabs per video ( volume used depends on slab size) lay tile gently tap in ( use board across prior tiles, check level, add for low point /remove high point, lay next one)
    5 points = 4 corners 1 in middle
    Cracking from not level to start / not compacted / one corner or middle dab is too small
    http://https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X11bIZz0Rn4

    http://https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FEfKIAHbV8Y


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    #12
    D3V!L
    Registered Users Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    Lantus wrote: »
    804 sub base with a grit blinding layer you should be able to park a car on them. How long did it take to lay?

    Between clearing the garden and laying it was 2 days in total.


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    #13
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    D3V!L wrote: »
    Between clearing the garden and laying it was 2 days in total.
    Sorry, and how many people working on it. 65sqm is quite an area in terms of just raw materials. But not overly huge.

    Teams can lay structures of this size in a few days with 3 or 4 people.

    A few pics would be useful and if you can lift a tle to see what's under?


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    #14
    D3V!L
    Registered Users Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    Lantus wrote: »
    Sorry, and how many people working on it. 65sqm is quite an area in terms of just raw materials. But not overly huge.

    Teams can lay structures of this size in a few days with 3 or 4 people.

    A few pics would be useful and if you can lift a tle to see what's under?

    4 people on average working on it


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    #15
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    If its a concrete tile then I'm guessing its uniform depth so there should be no reason for movement or cracking.


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    #16
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,069 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    banie01 wrote: »
    Patio slabs should be laid on a compacted substrate.
    A whacker plate should have been used to give a very firm and flat bed.
    .

    i did mine myself as above...but within a week nearly half the slabs were loose, so i just used a regular cement mix to fix them permanently in place


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    #17
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    OP it sounds like the sand base has washed away leaving voids which are causing rocking and leading to cracks.


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    #18
    jmBuildExt
    Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭jmBuildExt


    Glass fused light wrote: »
    Location should be dug out (de-weeded if grass or planting beds) levelled & compacted.
    Add anti weed but not waterproof material (optional)
    Add gravel to allow for drainage level & compact (check the grade used)
    Add sand bed compact this should be very level (check grade)
    1) Add tiles & filler sand
    unless the tiles were different depths (individually thin on one side or a thin one) they should sit flat.
    Cracking is movement based so poor foundations, not level to start / not compacted / water has washed the sand into the gravel.

    2) mix concrete lay dabs per video ( volume used depends on slab size) lay tile gently tap in ( use board across prior tiles, check level, add for low point /remove high point, lay next one)
    5 points = 4 corners 1 in middle
    Cracking from not level to start / not compacted / one corner or middle dab is too small
    http://https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X11bIZz0Rn4

    http://https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FEfKIAHbV8Y
    Dabs are considered bad practise. The gaps allow for water to wash past. Also on certain type of slabs, you will get wet patches on the surface coinciding with the dabs.
    www.pavingexpert.com has an abundance of information!


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    #19
    standardg60
    Registered Users Posts: 4,259 ✭✭✭standardg60


    I only lay patios on a full wet concrete base, it is nigh on impossible to prevent rocking on a dry substrate unless each and every slab is individually packed underneath as they're laid.


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    #20
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    fryup wrote: »
    i did mine myself as above...but within a week nearly half the slabs were loose, so i just used a regular cement mix to fix them permanently in place

    804 is too large a mix to lay anything on direct even compacted. You need a blinding layer of sand and ideally grit to get a fine compacted layer which is bordered by a solid stone boundary to keep it all in place.

    A mortar layer for uneven slabs like natural stone is required. But can be used for any stone.

    I just laid my own patio last year using 10 tonnes of hardcore for 25sq.m and then porcelain 600mm tiles 20mm thick on raised adjustable pedestals! Easiest patio I've done, flush to floor of house, no complex drainage, doesn't seem to go green and looks fab. Would recommend.


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    #21
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,069 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    Lantus wrote: »
    I just laid my own patio last year using 10 tonnes of hardcore for 25sq.m and then porcelain 600mm tiles 20mm thick on raised adjustable pedestals!

    is it not fiddly using them yokes? where can you get them? B&Q?


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    #22
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    https://www.castlecomposites.co.uk/product/porcelain-tile-substructure/

    Thats what I would like to use were I building a patio area...seems a lot easier and gives easy access/maintenance.


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    #23
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    fryup wrote: »
    is it not fiddly using them yokes? where can you get them? B&Q?

    Got mine from UK. https://www.accessflooringshop.co.uk/categories/external-plastic-pedestals/ryno-pave-self-levelling-paving-supports/

    Porceline tiles from a big place off the m50. Tile center.

    The materials are more but the labour and install relatively easy. I designed garden such that I'd need zero cuts as it's a really tough tile to cut.


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    #24
    D3V!L
    Registered Users Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    Still waiting for this to be fixed ....... I'm not holding my breath on the guys returning.

    Turns out there are 4 cracked slabs now and when I went to wash the patio for the first time at the weekend the water is pooling in the middle of it and I had to push it up hill to the drains !! :(


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    #25
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Small claims court is the next option.


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