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Islam and the Jews

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  • 09-05-2014 11:57pm
    #1
    rambutman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 287 ✭✭


    My daughter (7) is a muslim, as is my son, as is their mother.

    I am not.

    Tonight after praying she asked me "why do the muslims not like the jews"

    She said it was because an old lady poisoned muhammed, so i went and looked it up and found this

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/mo-death.htm

    How accurate is this?


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    #2
    confusedquark
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭confusedquark


    That's the first I've ever heard that poisoning had anything to do with Prophet Muhammad's (peace be upon him) death. I've always known it to be natural causes, with worsening fever and weakness during the days preceding his death.

    Regarding the article, there's a very in-depth rebuttal to it here, so you can have a read of it.

    A lot of modern-day Muslim-Jew friction probably results from the Israel-Palestine conflict, but it's wrong for Muslims to dislike Jews as a whole over it - there are many Jews who oppose what Israel does (and indeed many Muslims who oppose attacks on Jews in Israel).


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    #3
    whydoc
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭whydoc


    A Jewish woman gave the Prophet (peace be upon him) a grilled lamb for a gift. When he (peace be upon him) and his companions started to eat from it, he told them, “Stop eating. This lamb has poison in it.” And one narration says that he said, “This lamb is telling me that it has poison in it.” The Prophet (peace be upon him) went and asked her, “Why did you try to poison me?” She answered, “I wanted to know whether you are a prophet or not. I had thought that if you were a prophet, then God would tell you about it, and if you were a liar, then people would be relieved from you.”

    There are authentic narrations that say that the Prophet forgave her and there are other authentic narrations as well that say that one companion by the name of Bishr ibn Al-Bara’ died from that poison and that the Prophet (peace be upon him) ordered the woman to be killed for killing him. Scholars have different opinions about which narration is more authentic, but I believe that both of them are authentic and the following is the way by which both could be understood in one context: The Prophet (peace be upon him) at first forgave the woman for trying to poison him but later he ordered her to be killed when Bishr died from the poison. According to Imam Bayhaqi (number 15791), Bishr became sick after the meal and, later on, died from the effect of that poison. So the Prophet (peace be upon him) punished the woman, after she confessed, for being responsible for Bishr’s death.

    The direct effect of the poison on the Prophet (peace be upon him) was a mark on his gum that Anas, his companion, said that he could recognize.

    There is one narration by Imam Darami (number 67) that suggests that the Prophet (peace be upon him) died because of a long-term side effect of that poison. In that narration, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, days before his death, “I have not been feeling well since that meal I ate at Khaybar. So, it seems that it is time for my heart vasculature to disconnect because of it.” So, according to this narration, the Prophet (peace be upon him) was guessing that the long-term effect of the poison played a role in that sickness, but this guess was never confirmed through a revelation. All other narrations say that the Prophet (peace be upon him) died of a fever, the medical cause of which was not known.

    In any case, what the woman claimed, which is that her poison was her proof for whether Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a prophet or not, has no foundation. Many prophets of Allah before Muhammad had been killed and their death was not a sign of them being liars.

    The other narrations that you are referring to are correct. The Prophet (peace be upon him) knew about his death from Angel Gabriel and told several of his family members and companions about it. He also referred to his death in the speech of his last pilgrimage, which was months before his death. Allah Almighty also gave him a sign in the Quran by the revelation of Surat Al-Nasr that year, which was a sign for the completion of his message, as Ibn `Abbas explains. Then, he was given a choice between becoming a great king on earth and meeting his Lord, and he chose to meet his Lord (refer, for example, to Al-Bukhari, number 80, and Darami, number 79).
    http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-about-islam/ethics-and-values/muslim-character/166217-how-did-the-prophet-peace-be-upon-him-die.html


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    #4
    Bellatori
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭Bellatori


    rambutman wrote: »
    ...Tonight after praying she asked me "why do the muslims not like the jews"...

    You might like to explain to her that Jews as a group is merely one of a long list that Muslims are told to convert by the sword or kill and that there are over 100 verses in the Quran exhorting Muslims to put to the sword those that are not muslim.

    You could point out to her that Islam teaches that "non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim" so there is no need for her to worry particularly about the Jews. They will get what is coming to them along with the rest of us.


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    #5
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Final warning Bellatori: stop stirring things up.

    I won't warn you again.


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    #6
    whydoc
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭whydoc


    Soon after emigrating to Madinah and making sure that the pillars of the new Islamic community were well established on strong bases of administrative, political and ideological unity, the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) commenced to establish regular and clearly-defined relations with non-Muslims.
    All of these efforts were exerted solely to provide peace, security, and prosperity to all mankind at large, and to bring about a spirit of rapport and harmony within his region, in particular.

    Geographically, the closest people to Madinah were the Jews. Whilst harbouring evil intentions, and nursing bitter grudge, they showed not the least resistance nor the slightest animosity. The Prophet decided to ratify a treaty with them with clauses that provided full freedom in faith and wealth.

    The most important provisions of the treaty are the following:
    1. The Jews of Bani ‘Awf are one community with the believers. The Jews will profess their religion, and the Muslims theirs.
    2. The Jews shall be responsible for their expenditure, and the Muslims for theirs.
    3. If attacked by a third party, each shall come to the assistance of the other.
    4. Each party shall hold counsel with the other. Mutual relation shall be founded on righteousness; sin is totally excluded.
    5. Neither shall commit sins to the prejudice of the other.
    6. The wronged party shall be aided.
    7. The Jews shall contribute to the cost of war so long as they are fighting alongside the believers.
    8. Madinah shall remain sacred and inviolable for all that join this treaty.
    9. Should any disagreement arise between the signatories to this treaty, then Allâh, the All-High and His Messenger shall settle the dispute.
    10. The signatories to this treaty shall boycott Quraish commercially; they shall also abstain from extending any support to them.
    11. Each shall contribute to defending Madinah, in case of a foreign attack, in its respective area.
    12. This treaty shall not hinder either party from seeking lawful revenge. [Ibn Hisham 1/503,504]

    Details


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    #7
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Bellatori wrote: »
    You might like to explain to her that Jews as a group is merely one of a long list that Muslims are told to convert by the sword or kill and that there are over 100 verses in the Quran exhorting Muslims to put to the sword those that are not muslim.

    You could point out to her that Islam teaches that "non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim" so there is no need for her to worry particularly about the Jews. They will get what is coming to them along with the rest of us.
    Who told you this? Tommy Robinson?
    Ahmed Raza Khan: Mohammed Aqib Qadri:
    Say, “Come - so that I may recite to you what your Lord has forbidden for you that ‘Do not ascribe any partner to Him and be good to parents; and do not kill your children because of poverty; We shall provide sustenance for all - you and them; and do not approach lewd things, the open among them or concealed; and do not unjustly kill any life which Allah has made sacred; this is the command to you, so that you may have sense.’
    http://www.islamawareness.net/FAQ/faq1001.html
    http://www.multimediaquran.com/quran/006/006-151.htm

    And perhaps a Muslims can correct me on this but Jews and Christians aren't considered infidels by anyone other than than those within the lunatic fringes of Islam.


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    #8
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Whatever about what happened in Arabia between Jews and Muslims during the emergence of Islam, I would say 99% of the enimity comes from the Zionist immigration to Palestine and the foundation of the state of Israel.

    Jews and Muslims lived in relative peace in many parts of the world before this. In Islamic Spain, Morocco, Tunisia, Palestine, Iraq, Persia etc. European treatment of Jews was far worse, until the Enlightenment. And even after that, the Russian Empire was still mistreating them.


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    #9
    zakyusuf
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭zakyusuf


    please don't ban him he so stupid he`s funny lmao , also its good for islam , people like him help non believers come to islam , the more they lie about islam the more the non believers search and find the truth . I thank you Bellatori alhumdullah may allah grant you bellatori and you like many rewards for helping us spread islam .


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    #10
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,239 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    zakyusuf wrote: »
    please don't ban him he so stupid he`s funny lmao , also its good for islam , people like him help non believers come to islam , the more they lie about islam the more the non believers search and find the truth . I thank you Bellatori alhumdullah may allah grant you bellatori and you like many rewards for helping us spread islam .

    It's over a year later. I'd say he's safe enough...


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    #11
    Spirogyra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Spirogyra


    zakyusuf wrote: »
    please don't ban him he so stupid he`s funny lmao , also its good for islam , people like him help non believers come to islam , the more they lie about islam the more the non believers search and find the truth . I thank you Bellatori alhumdullah may allah grant you bellatori and you like many rewards for helping us spread islam .

    more of the same, trying to 'convert',not fit for a public forum, ...tired of it, give's Muslims a bad name....


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    #12
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Spirogyra wrote: »
    more of the same, trying to 'convert',not fit for a public forum, ...tired of it, give's Muslims a bad name....

    Islam needs its own enlightenment. Christianity and Judaism is not all good like its believers say. Many false preachers are worshipped contradicting the values of their adherents as for Islam many traditional practises continue to be enforced by religious leaders and zealots well into the 21st century the lack of modernity is a major failing.


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    #13
    Spirogyra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Spirogyra


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Islam needs its own enlightenment. Christianity and Judaism is not all good like its believers say. Many false preachers are worshipped contradicting the values of their adherents as for Islam many traditional practises continue to be enforced by religious leaders and zealots well into the 21st century the lack of modernity is a major failing.
    I agree with all of the above.... and it can only come from within....

    I remember when I was in my teens, and seeing an article questioning the truth of Christ in an Irish Newspaper, I was shocked, I had never before not taken it for granted that Catholicism was true and that everyone else was wrong...it set a train of questioning, of increasing doubt in motion, I too was brainwashed into being a Catholic, such article's are not allowed in majority Muslim countries or communities.....


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    #14
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Spirogyra wrote: »
    I agree with all of the above.... and it can only come from within....

    I remember when I was in my teens, and seeing an article questioning the truth of Christ in an Irish Newspaper, I was shocked, I had never before not taken it for granted that Catholicism was true and that everyone else was wrong...it set a train of questioning, of increasing doubt in motion, I too was brainwashed into being a Catholic, such article's are not allowed in majority Muslim countries or communities.....

    I took Catholicism as just the norm and then all the allegations and scandals broke and suddenly it dawned on me the concept of absolute truth is an illusion and certainly no one religion is more important than any other religion.


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    #15
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    zakyusuf wrote: »
    please don't ban him he so stupid he`s funny lmao , also its good for islam , people like him help non believers come to islam , the more they lie about islam the more the non believers search and find the truth . I thank you Bellatori alhumdullah may allah grant you bellatori and you like many rewards for helping us spread islam .

    Moderator note: welcome to the forum, zakyusuf. I ask that you familiarise yourself with the etiquette of the site and ensure you read the charter of this forum.


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    #16
    Spirogyra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Spirogyra


    zakyusuf wrote: »
    please don't ban him he so stupid he`s funny lmao , also its good for islam , people like him help non believers come to islam , the more they lie about islam the more the non believers search and find the truth . I thank you Bellatori alhumdullah may allah grant you bellatori and you like many rewards for helping us spread islam .

    How do you know that Islam is the 'truth' anyway? .....


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    #17
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Spirogyra wrote: »
    How do you know that Islam is the 'truth' anyway? .....


    Mod note: stop baiting posters and get back on topic.


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    #18
    zakyusuf
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭zakyusuf


    Originally Posted by zakyusuf View Post

    please don't ban him he so stupid he`s funny lmao , also its good for islam , people like him help non believers come to islam , the more they lie about islam the more the non believers search and find the truth . I thank you Bellatori alhumdullah may allah grant you bellatori and you like many rewards for helping us spread islam .

    more of the same, trying to 'convert',not fit for a public forum, ...tired of it, give's Muslims a bad name....
    Im not trying to convert anyone I don't care if people convert or not makes no difference to me .Muslims don't convert in islam, only God can convert , Muslims just impart knowledge . if your tired of it why you bothering to read the posts then .


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    #19
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,695 ✭✭✭donaghs


    zakyusuf wrote: »
    Im not trying to convert anyone I don't care if people convert or not makes no difference to me .Muslims don't convert in islam, only God can convert , Muslims just impart knowledge . if your tired of it why you bothering to read the posts then .

    Interestingly enough when it comes to conversion/reversion, the UK based mainstream Islam forum <mod snip>

    Fascinating, and while you have to take all anonymous internet postings with a pinch of salt, a little frightening.

    Mod Note
    Boards is NOT the place to flog posts from another forum as evidence.
    Just like we wouldn't expect this forum to be quoted everywhere else as evidence.
    Please be a bit more discerning in your quotes, but more of these types of posts that add nothing but hysteria / flaming and further mod action will be taken.


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    #20
    Defender OF Faith
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭Defender OF Faith


    rambutman wrote: »
    My daughter (7) is a muslim, as is my son, as is their mother.

    I am not.

    Tonight after praying she asked me "why do the muslims not like the jews"

    She said it was because an old lady poisoned muhammed, so i went and looked it up and found this

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/mo-death.htm

    How accurate is this?

    The Jews wouldn't try to poison him if they didn't like him, according to that line of thinking, it's really the Jews who do not like him.

    One of the Prophets wife was Jewish, there's nothing in Islam against Jews as a race, however Jewish people or adherent of Judaism are addressed frequently in the Qur'an given that they received the first revelation and law from God the Torah and the Hadith given that they inhabited the Medina.


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