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10-11-2013, 11:51   #16
 
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Originally Posted by CuAnnan View Post
Yes.
Halloween is not Samhain. It does not share its roots with Samhain. All Saint's Day was moved from May to October in the 4th or 5th Century.

As to whether they can celebrate Samhain, that's a different question. But sure. If it floats their boats, they can celebrate Samhain. If, however, they're just tacking "Samhain" onto whatever completely non-Samhain things they have going on at the end of october, that I'd be inclined to call misappropriation.
Halloween is definitely Samhain, or rather Oiche Samhain. The next day was appropriated by the Catholic Church and is celebrated in Catholic Countries as a minor feast. Halloween ran parallel to this tradition in the Celtic periphery.
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10-11-2013, 21:18   #17
CuAnnan
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I also don't think Irish people are a race.
That's nice.
Why not?

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Also the Irish brought it to the states as immigrants and started passing it on to the kids etc. So it spread organically much as it did here.
Are you confusing Halloween with Samhain?
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10-11-2013, 21:20   #18
CuAnnan
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Originally Posted by Frank Lee Midere View Post
Halloween is definitely Samhain, or rather Oiche Samhain.
Halloween is definitely not Samhain.
Now, we can go around in circles all day with you tacitly saying "I'm not going to comment on the historical facts that All Hallow's Day was originally in May" and my repeatedly pointing out "uh, but All Hallows Day was originally in May".
And that Halloween has about a half dozen cultural influence which are not Samhain.
But frankly, I hate that kind of argument.
So.
How about you post some kind of evidence.

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Originally Posted by Lou.m View Post
The next day was appropriated by the Catholic Church and is celebrated in Catholic Countries as a minor feast. Halloween ran parallel to this tradition in the Celtic periphery.
Historical revisionism and nonsense do not an argument make.
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11-11-2013, 21:02   #19
 
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Originally Posted by CuAnnan View Post
Halloween is definitely not Samhain.
Now, we can go around in circles all day with you tacitly saying "I'm not going to comment on the historical facts that All Hallow's Day was originally in May" and my repeatedly pointing out "uh, but All Hallows Day was originally in May".
And that Halloween has about a half dozen cultural influence which are not Samhain.
But frankly, I hate that kind of argument.
So.
How about you post some kind of evidence.


Historical revisionism and nonsense do not an argument make.

The actual evidence is clear. The holy Christian day is All Hallows' day. There is nothing holy about the day before. No masses etc. it is the day before which the Irish and other Celtic groups celebrate and call Samhain in Gaelic.

As for the Internet there is no evidence of anything else. Outside (possibly) few looney neo-paganism sites. Samhain is Halloween.

And making extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence. You need to provide the evidence , not me.
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12-11-2013, 03:04   #20
CuAnnan
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The actual evidence is clear. The holy Christian day is All Hallows' day. There is nothing holy about the day before. No masses etc. it is the day before which the Irish and other Celtic groups celebrate and call Samhain in Gaelic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallowe...tian_influence


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As for the Internet there is no evidence of anything else. Outside (possibly) few looney neo-paganism sites. Samhain is Halloween.
Didn't look very hard, considering Wikipedia has a metric **** tonne of sites supporting the "Halloween is not Samhain" thing.

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And making extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence. You need to provide the evidence , not me.
The extraordinary claim is yours, not mine.
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12-11-2013, 03:53   #21
PaddyORuadhan
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CuAnnan... why are all the traditions dating back centuries to do with halloween more in line with celtic mythological ideas than those of Christianity? I don't remember anything in Catholic doctrine talking about the spirits of the dead crossing over from the 'other' side. No like many Catholic feasts it is far more likely that it is christian appropriation of previous pagan tradition
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27-11-2013, 13:09   #22
Demonique
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That's nice.
Why not?
Because we're not? Irish is a culture or ethnicity rather than a race, white Irish people are a part of the Caucasian race.
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08-09-2015, 05:12   #23
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Personally I reckon that since there is this ambiguity between All Hallows/All Saint's/Samhain/Hallowe'en, whatever the masses are celebrating can't really be labelled cultural appropriation as what they're celebrating isn't really any particular original cultural holiday but a bastard emalgamation of many things which has become something new, in and of itself. Inasmuch as racist costumes are concerned, I agree that Native American costumes are probably highly offensive to Native American culture, but at the same time, I find it ridiculous when I see modern society folks dressed in "Hippie" costumes. At the end of the day, the harm is not meant on the part of the costume wearer, but percieved by the observers, and can (and maybe should?) be forgiven in the spirit that it's meant. Subconsciously at the end of the day people were drawn to their costumes for a myriad of reasons, and it's not really anyone's place to judge their choice. Children dress as vampires and witches because they want to be a vampire or a witch for a day, and we don't hold it against them. Forgiveness and understanding, an it harm none, they're only harming you if you're harmed.
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08-09-2015, 06:03   #24
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Lame troll, dude. You should be embarrassed.
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08-09-2015, 06:49   #25
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It's all subjective. To you they are cliches, to others my advice might be the wake up call needed.

And I am certainly not boring, I am living the high life on the borders of Colombia and if you had read the Longford thread in afterhours you would see that maybe you should treat my advice more seriously, i can help you pal but first your negative attitude has to go.
I tried to read that thread.
It was boring.

Edited to add:

Pal.
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08-09-2015, 07:49   #26
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Back to the actual subject at hand, I think Halloween as it's celebrated now is so divorced from its roots that any point about cultural appropriation is moot.
Non-pagan people celebrate Halloween in much the same way non-Christians celebrate Christmas.
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09-09-2015, 13:56   #27
donaghs
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Back to the actual subject at hand, I think Halloween as it's celebrated now is so divorced from its roots that any point about cultural appropriation is moot.
Non-pagan people celebrate Halloween in much the same way non-Christians celebrate Christmas.
I'd agree. For most people its just a bit of fun without any deeper meaning. Nothing wrong with that.

What's more interesting is Islamic and new Evangelical Christian groups warning people against celebrating it, due to it being Pagan, or Evil or Satanic, etc, etc.
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