Is your club benefiting from the COVID lockdown?

GreeBo · 30-06-2020 2:32pm

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

I disagree totally that local sponsorship has a 'cheap vibe' to it. It's sponsorship at our level the same way other competitions / events are sponsored by the multi billionaires of this world for clubs at that level.

If we are all agreed that there are different levels, what's the problem in being at a level of zero sponsorship?

Wichita Lineman · 30-06-2020 2:36pm

GreeBo wrote: »

If we are all agreed that there are different levels, what's the problem in being at a level of zero sponsorship?

I never said you werent entitled to your opinion that some clubs dont want or even need sponsorship but I found your 'cheap' remark unnecessary that's all.

GreeBo · 30-06-2020 6:13pm

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

I never said you werent entitled to your opinion that some clubs dont want or even need sponsorship but I found your 'cheap' remark unnecessary that's all.

Each to their own, as I said.
Local business "sponsoring" a local club are basically just giving them money to support a local thing. There really isnt that much in it for the company. How many members wouldn't be aware of the local company already? As already said, its charity in disguise basically. Really no different than the social networks in all clubs where members avail of and support each others businesses.

I don't beg for money on the streets or look for handouts from charities either, though according to some I would be foolish not to as it would be free money for me. I think you would consider it "cheap" of me to take money from a charity when I don't depend on it to survive.

blue note · 30-06-2020 6:36pm

It improves the image of a local company to support local sports clubs, musical societies and the like. It can very much be a good commercial decision to support a local GAA or golf club, because while people might have been aware of you to begin with, if they think some of the money might end up going back into their club, they will be more likely to give you their business.

In fairness, I'm sure there will be people who just love the club and would consider it a privilege to sponsor a competition. I wouldn't view it as charity, but you could take that approach. But the majority of the time, I'd say companies think it is part of the cost of doing business to give to local clubs, societies and causes.

GreeBo · 30-06-2020 7:12pm

blue note wrote: »

It improves the image of a local company to support local sports clubs, musical societies and the like. It can very much be a good commercial decision to support a local GAA or golf club, because while people might have been aware of you to begin with, if they think some of the money might end up going back into their club, they will be more likely to give you their business.

In fairness, I'm sure there will be people who just love the club and would consider it a privilege to sponsor a competition. I wouldn't view it as charity, but you could take that approach. But the majority of the time, I'd say companies think it is part of the cost of doing business to give to local clubs, societies and causes.

Which is grand, but you are now looking at it from the companies point of view rather than the clubs.

Anywho, none of this is really covid related!

Mushy · 30-06-2020 7:31pm

A company advertising their business is cheapening a place now....cant say I've ever heard that idea anywhere

blue note · 30-06-2020 7:45pm

Exactly. It's selling advertising space. JCDaceux record revenue, not charitable donations in their financial statements. Similarly for man United selling billboard space or the local tennis club accepting accepting a local trader buying a scoreboard for them, but putting their name on it.

GreeBo · 30-06-2020 9:16pm

blue note wrote: »

Exactly. It's selling advertising space. JCDaceux record revenue, not charitable donations in their financial statements. Similarly for man United selling billboard space or the local tennis club accepting accepting a local trader buying a scoreboard for them, but putting their name on it.

So I guess your club has a sponsors logo on anything that can fit one?
Tees, flags, rakes, cups, towels, tables, chairs, sand bags, very cars, etc etc?

Golf is my Game · 30-06-2020 11:04pm

blue note wrote: »

But the majority of the time, I'd say companies think it is part of the cost of doing business to give to local clubs, societies and causes.

blue note wrote: »

Exactly. It's selling advertising space. JCDaceux record revenue, not charitable donations in their financial statements. Similarly for man United selling billboard space or the local tennis club accepting accepting a local trader buying a scoreboard for them, but putting their name on it.

Mushy wrote: »

A company advertising their business is cheapening a place now....cant say I've ever heard that idea anywhere

Its not really though. While the whole 'sponsorship' talk uses the language of business and advertising, and exposure, and selling their business thats only pretending its business. None of these are real business deals where the business is looking for an outlet to have their name associated with sponsorship. The motivation is support of their freinds and community and probably even their own club or whatever. Half of them if they didnt get the call from the club PRO or knock on the door or whatever tapping them up for a hundred quid or so would be delighted. They give it to get them off their back. Other do do it more willingly. But just because from sense of civic duty or their big into the game themselves, or their brother or kids or employees or whoever are into it and its a way of showing support. They wouldnt be stuck with a business problem if they couldnt sponsor a comp and be thinging gee how am I going to get my bit of advertising in town now, Ill have to see will the football club give me a sign by the pitch or something. It just has the illusion of being business sponsorship and that theyl get a return from it and thats why they dont it. Its a handout.
The sponsorship of the tour pros and such are real commercial sponsorship - they choose to spend the bucks because they calculate a return on their investment. They dont do it because they think golf needs support, or pro golfers are so good that they need more millions from a big business. If they couldnt do it, theyd spend it on TV ads or their name on a football teams shirts. Its an investment, not a donation.

Mushy · 30-06-2020 11:10pm

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Its not really though. While the whole 'sponsorship' talk uses the language of business and advertising, and exposure, and selling their business thats only pretending its business. None of these are real business deals where the business is looking for an outlet to have their name associated with sponsorship. The motivation is support of their freinds and community and probably even their own club or whatever. Half of them if they didnt get the call from the club PRO or knock on the door or whatever tapping them up for a hundred quid or so would be delighted. They give it to get them off their back. Other do do it more willingly. But just because from sense of civic duty or their big into the game themselves, or their brother or kids or employees or whoever are into it and its a way of showing support. They wouldnt be stuck with a business problem if they couldnt sponsor a comp and be thinging gee how am I going to get my bit of advertising in town now, Ill have to see will the football club give me a sign by the pitch or something. It just has the illusion of being business sponsorship and that theyl get a return from it and thats why they dont it. Its a handout.
The sponsorship of the tour pros and such are real commercial sponsorship - they choose to spend the bucks because they calculate a return on their investment. They dont do it because they think golf needs support, or pro golfers are so good that they need more millions from a big business. If they couldnt do it, theyd spend it on TV ads or their name on a football teams shirts. Its an investment, not a donation.

Ok, but quite literally none of that cheapens anything

Golf is my Game · 30-06-2020 11:16pm

Mushy wrote: »

Ok, but quite literally none of that cheapens anything

It depends what you mean by cheapen. I take that the other poster meant that its a signal that your dealing with a lower level of golf club who need that bit of voluntary contribution, donation, charity, support, call it what you will in order to run. And that the lack of them does show a more substantial club that is richer and can afford to runs it comps and stuff simply because it has the income to do so without this kind of knocking on doors asking for support. No club that has the money to avoid it will do it because theyd like to have sponsors signs on the tees or whatever. Its nicer without it. Same with 'sponsored' cards. A sponsors name on your card doesnt make things better. You just want a card. So if you can have a card without a quarter of it being an ad, then youll do it. But if you need the cash, then you will 'cheapen' your card literally, by selling advertising space on it. Im sure Augusta National doesnt have a sponsor on its cards or the local motor dealers names on its tee markers either like. Its the same thing. cheapen just means signs of a less rich club which is a fair enough comment. Its no criticism of the members, the course, or the enjoyment they get from play golf at all I dont think.

Mushy · 30-06-2020 11:26pm

Golf is my Game wrote: »

It depends what you mean by cheapen. I take that the other poster meant that its a signal that your dealing with a lower level of golf club who need that bit of voluntary contribution, donation, charity, support, call it what you will in order to run. And that the lack of them does show a more substantial club that is richer and can afford to runs it comps and stuff simply because it has the income to do so without this kind of knocking on doors asking for support. No club that has the money to avoid it will do it because theyd like to have sponsors signs on the tees or whatever. Its nicer without it. Same with 'sponsored' cards. A sponsors name on your card doesnt make things better. You just want a card. So if you can have a card without a quarter of it being an ad, then youll do it. But if you need the cash, then you will 'cheapen' your card literally, by selling advertising space on it. Im sure Augusta National doesnt have a sponsor on its cards or the local motor dealers names on its tee markers either like. Its the same thing. cheapen just means signs of a less rich club which is a fair enough comment. Its no criticism of the members, the course, or the enjoyment they get from play golf at all I dont think.

It's a very snobbish way to make the comment, hence why people are dumbfounded by it. Clubs all over the country would love to be in a position where they dont need to ask for financial help from other businesses, but that's not the reality of the situation. You can say it's not a criticism of those things, but it came across as a criticism/looking down the nose of clubs that do need it

GreeBo · 01-07-2020 8:19am

Mushy wrote: »

It's a very snobbish way to make the comment, hence why people are dumbfounded by it. Clubs all over the country would love to be in a position where they dont need to ask for financial help from other businesses, but that's not the reality of the situation. You can say it's not a criticism of those things, but it came across as a criticism/looking down the nose of clubs that do need it

If having local sponsorship doesn't cheapen things a bit, why doesn't your club have every square inch covered in local sponsorship? Surely more is better right? Or is there a point where it does suddenly become cheap?

If you choose to take what I said as criticism and snobbery then that's on you mate, I can't help you there. The whole idea of getting support from local businesses is to lower the club expenses, i.e make it cheaper to run.
If anything you are being a snob if you think doing it in a golf club is somehow different to doing it in a GAA club or tennis club or badminton club. It's done to raise money for the club, again, to make it cheaper to run, not as some shrewd business deal between equals as you would like to pretend.

Golf is my Game · 01-07-2020 8:47am

I suppose the bottom line is that if to those outside it it looks cheap, then it's fair to say it looks cheap.
Those inside aren't exactly impartial and have an interest in not seeing it as cheap and indeed probably don't. But that doesn't change the fact for those who do see it as cheap.
Overall its a good thing and does help clubs to get income whatever.

Mushy · 01-07-2020 8:59am

GreeBo wrote: »

If having local sponsorship doesn't cheapen things a bit, why doesn't your club have every square inch covered in local sponsorship? Surely more is better right? Or is there a point where it does suddenly become cheap?

If you choose to take what I said as criticism and snobbery then that's on you mate, I can't help you there. The whole idea of getting support from local businesses is to lower the club expenses, i.e make it cheaper to run.
If anything you are being a snob if you think doing it in a golf club is somehow different to doing it in a GAA club or tennis club or badminton club. It's done to raise money for the club, again, to make it cheaper to run, not as some shrewd business deal between equals as you would like to pretend.

Stop with the whataboutary now, this is about competition sponsorship being called cheapening a place.

The way it was said came across as snobby, I cant say it was intentionally that way. How am I being a snob about those other places, literally never mentioned them? We all know why competitions are sponsored, but what was originally said came across wrong

GreeBo · 01-07-2020 9:06am

Mushy wrote: »

Stop with the whataboutary now, this is about competition sponsorship being called cheapening a place.

The way it was said came across as snobby, I cant say it was intentionally that way. How am I being a snob about those other places, literally never mentioned them? We all know why competitions are sponsored, but what was originally said came across wrong

Look, I'm not going to keep arguing with you, especially when you ignore the specific question I have asked, namely is your club covered in sponsorship and if not, why not.

You decided to take umbrage with a perfectly normal comment I made, as seems to be the norm for some on here, I'm not going to apologise for you taking offence, offence is taken not given.

Mushy · 01-07-2020 9:13am

GreeBo wrote: »

Look, I'm not going to keep arguing with you, especially when you ignore the specific question I have asked, namely is your club covered in sponsorship and if not, why not.

You decided to take umbrage with a perfectly normal comment I made, as seems to be the norm for some on here, I'm not going to apologise for you taking offence, offence is taken not given.

It's not cos it's not needed. I can easily accept it if it means lowers the costs to run, but the phrase "cheapen a place" sounded like it was insinuated a club was cheap by having competition sponsorship. Comment could easily have been clearer from the outset though

GreeBo · 01-07-2020 9:41am

Mushy wrote: »

It's not cos it's not needed. I can easily accept it if it means lowers the costs to run, but the phrase "cheapen a place" sounded like it was insinuated a club was cheap by having competition sponsorship. Comment could easily have been clearer from the outset though

But why not, surely your club should take advantage of any income it can get?

A club has sponsorship because it needs the money to survive, in the same way that your club doesnt need to sponsor everything my club doesnt (currently) need to sponsor anything.
In the same way that it could be considered cheap for your club to have sponsorship on everything, it could be considered cheap for my club to sponsor anything.

I think maybe you need to take the time to go back and read my original post and especially the post it was replying to, that was *specifically* about sponsorship in *my* club.

Keano · 01-07-2020 9:43am

Gone way off topic and starting to get a little out of hand...again. Time to get back on topic now please or it will be locked.

Golf is my Game · 01-07-2020 10:13am

Going back onto the topic then because I think this bit came up from clubs losing money from not having competitions during the lock down and that thats important income for some clubs for its general running. And that some clubs would also lose some sponsorship income due to that and not just members entry fees. But I think for the sponsorship, given the 'donation' character of it rather than pure business income like societies or green fess which are truly lost, there probably a way of recovering the sponsorship income some how. Some effectively want to give it anyway as long as there is a decent cover story. So they will probably still contribute, even if it's now for the midweek open, or the open week, or sponsor a tee for a classic or whatever. So I don't think clubs who think about it will really be out of pocket on the sponsorship side.
Which I think is where the discussion started.

GreeBo · 01-07-2020 10:35am

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Going back onto the topic then because I think this bit came up from clubs losing money from not having competitions during the lock down and that thats important income for some clubs for its general running. And that some clubs would also lose some sponsorship income due to that and not just members entry fees. But I think for the sponsorship, given the 'donation' character of it rather than pure business income like societies or green fess which are truly lost, there probably a way of recovering the sponsorship income some how. Some effectively want to give it anyway as long as there is a decent cover story. So they will probably still contribute, even if it's now for the midweek open, or the open week, or sponsor a tee for a classic or whatever. So I don't think clubs who think about it will really be out of pocket on the sponsorship side.
Which I think is where the discussion started.

I'd also expect that any sponsorship is probably yearly rather than adhoc weekly, so income from it wouldn't have been impacted.

One option for clubs could be to lower the competition purse, most people play comps for handicap purposes rather than to win money and anyway, most people put in more than they get out!

For any of the clubs that added significant numbers, from a club constitution point of view, were you under the membership limit and so no issues adding people, or do you feel the clubs were just taking whatever came their way, without looking at the overall impact?
Was there any communication about increased numbers/ EGM etc?

Miley Byrne · 01-07-2020 11:43am

GreeBo wrote: »

If having local sponsorship doesn't cheapen things a bit, why doesn't your club have every square inch covered in local sponsorship? Surely more is better right? Or is there a point where it does suddenly become cheap?

And where are all of these magical local sponsors going to come from?

Also is it OK for an Insurance company to sponsor an event but not ok for some sponsors or what?
https://twitter.com/GrangeGolfClub1/status/1217945047745908736/photo/1

Keano · 01-07-2020 11:58am

We are done here.

Is your club benefiting from the COVID lockdown?

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