Off licence closing times - should they be restricted from selling past 10pm?

Assetbacked · 18-06-2019 10:07pm #1

There is a concert roaring near my home this evening and, the beautiful evening it is, I wondered about those at the concert when they leave and if they wanted to purchase some beer or whatever to have a few post-concert drinks at home or where ever else. But of course, they cannot buy alcohol in shops as it is past 10pm.

From 2008, the ban has applied, I recall it being 11/11:30pm before the law was changed. Reading a news article from the time, I think the reasons for the restricted openings are not really applicable. Therefore, it should be possible to sell and buy alcohol in a shop past 10pm.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/off-licences-to-close-at-10pm-under-new-laws-68630.html

Justice Minister Dermot Ahern said: “The act places restriction on the availability and visibility of alcohol and provides for more effective enforcement to deal with the consequences of alcohol abuse.

“The introduction of fixed penalty charges for offences of intoxication in a public place and disorderly conduct will not only lead to more efficient use of public resources but hopefully will also support more responsible behaviour on the part of those concerned,” he said.

We have had changes to the good Friday pub closure laws/bylaws, now is it time to change the shop selling restriction?

Your Face · 18-06-2019 10:19pm

Doesn't make a difference to alcohol consumption or peoples behavior with alcohol.
It was probably just another rule change brought in by a weak-willed politician caving in to contemporary outrage.

kneemos · 18-06-2019 10:19pm

Changed it to ten during the last boom because everyone was drinking themselves into a coma every night.
Weekends started on a Wednesday.

1o059k7ewrqj3n · 18-06-2019 10:24pm

Read an article recently about how Gorbachev tried to combat chronic alcoholism in the USSR in a series of measures - reduced Vodka production, reduced times you could purchase alcohol to 3/4 hours in daytime and 1/2 at weekends (something like that), and upped the price.

So the people just turned to moonshine. And the state coffers lost millions of rubles (it turned out to be something ridiculous like 9% of GDP?) in taxes.

I can't remember why I thought this was relevant but my beer is empty so g'luck off to the fridge with me.

dxhound2005 · 18-06-2019 10:27pm

I think the workers in these shops deserve to get home at 10 o'clock.

Phileas Frog · 18-06-2019 10:28pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I think the workers in these shops deserve to get home at 10 o'clock.

Why?

dxhound2005 · 18-06-2019 10:32pm

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Why?

Because they will get home sooner than if they had to work until 11 or midnight.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 18-06-2019 10:37pm

It's crap because it only suits people who work 9-5. More and more people work 'irregular' hours. There's no logical reason why alcohol can't be bought until at least 12am.

It was the publicans lobbying the government to take a chunk out of the off licence sales. 10 years on and they are still at it with the minimum pricing.

18-06-2019 10:38pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Because they will get home sooner than if they had to work until 11 or midnight.

I used to work then manage an off licence for a decade or so (up to about half way through that decade it was 11.30 I finished), this so much....it was a busy off licence but the shop quietened down really most nights around 10/10.30pm and the last hour it was just the odd person in for an "emergency" Ciggies or Naggins….and how hard is it to go to an offy between 10.30am/12.30 on sunday -10pm

dxhound2005 · 18-06-2019 10:50pm

Drink doesn't go off like milk does. So it is possible for people who expect to want a drink after midnight, to stock up in advance. Weeks in advance if they have the money, and the space to store it.

The Satanist · 18-06-2019 10:59pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Drink doesn't go off like milk does. So it is possible for people who expect to want a drink after midnight, to stock up in advance. Weeks in advance if they have the money, and the space to store it.

Yeah, like I'm really gonna go to sleep at a respectable time knowing there's a bunch of fresh virgin cans sitting idly in the fridge :rolleyes:

Balanadan · 18-06-2019 11:09pm

What about people who get up early on a Sunday morning to do their shopping and have to make a separate trip to buy alcohol after 12:30?

Darc19 · 18-06-2019 11:13pm

Balanadan wrote: »

What about people who get up early on a Sunday morning to do their shopping and have to make a separate trip to buy alcohol after 12:30?

Off licences are open on Saturdays too.

Balanadan · 19-06-2019 7:55am

Darc19 wrote: »

Off licences are open on Saturdays too.

What good is that if you work on Saturdays?

u140acro3xs7dm · 19-06-2019 8:00am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Because they will get home sooner than if they had to work until 11 or midnight.

They would earn more money if they stayed until midnight. They could then save this money and buy a house, and we would fix the housing crisis. Problem solved, the government can have that one for free.

amadangomor · 19-06-2019 10:40am

It was vested interests in the Pub trade - Vintners etc. that were pushing the government to do this. Huge amount of TDs are publicans also.

Typical gombeen politics taking away peoples freedom. At the time I would work overtime very regularly and say was finished at 11PM on a Friday night wouldn't be able to get 2/3 beers after working a 15 hour day.

19-06-2019 11:06am

Banning all alcohol advertising/drug pushing would be much more effective than having a closing time - somebody with an alcohol problem is surely going to ensure he has his alcohol supply so is unlikely to be bothered by a 10pm or midnight closing time.

There is, however, no justification for allowing alcohol to be romanticised and pushed via a wide range of advertising in our society. Ban alcohol advertising in its entirety as its sole purpose us to increase sales of their drug. Watch the vested interests squeal like never before then.

Cienciano · 19-06-2019 11:10am

amadangomor wrote: »

It was vested interests in the Pub trade - Vintners etc. that were pushing the government to do this. Huge amount of TDs are publicans also.

Typical gombeen politics taking away peoples freedom. At the time I would work overtime very regularly and say was finished at 11PM on a Friday night wouldn't be able to get 2/3 beers after working a 15 hour day.

I'm surprised it took 16 posts for someone to post this. It's one of those "we need to be saved from the demon drink" rules. But apparently it's fine for pubs to do it because lots of TD's were publicans. Same way rent is crazy right now but that's fine because lots of TD's are landlords.
The culture needs to change. Anyone remember Michael McDowell trying to encourage café bar culture in Ireland? I'm no fan of MMD, but it was a good idea, trying to change the culture and encourage people to have food with their drink. He was laughed out of the Dail because the TD's there all owned pubs and it would have effected them and their pub licences.

The 12:30 rule on a sunday afternoon is particularly dumb.

19-06-2019 11:12am

Very few shops open past 10pm, which is fair enough.

Where a shop is open 24 hours, I don't see why we should be limiting them in what they can sell. If a shop is willing to offer that service to people who need it, they should be able to maximise the profit of doing so.

Cienciano · 19-06-2019 11:18am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I think the workers in these shops deserve to get home at 10 o'clock.

Shops can close whatever time they like.

Chips Lovell · 19-06-2019 11:43am

Whatever about the evening opening hours, the morning ones are a pain in the hoop. If you want to pick up a few bottles of wine with your weekly shop, you can't do it too early in the morning, particularly on a Sunday.

I've got the kids with me, a week's worth of groceries. What do they think I'm going to do, crack it open in the car park at 10 in the morning?

SteM · 19-06-2019 11:54am

Willie Bumpy Strictness wrote: »

They would earn more money if they stayed until midnight. They could then save this money and buy a house, and we would fix the housing crisis. Problem solved, the government can have that one for free.

Yeah, 2 extra hours pay at minimum wage will definitely turn them into property owners.

u140acro3xs7dm · 19-06-2019 1:30pm

SteM wrote: »

Yeah, 2 extra hours pay at minimum wage will definitely turn them into property owners.

This is after hours - if you are looking for a sensible answer, look elsewhere.

SteM · 19-06-2019 1:33pm

Willie Bumpy Strictness wrote: »

This is after hours - if you are looking for a sensible answer, look elsewhere.

Sensible? No.
Funny? Obviously not.

Edgware · 19-06-2019 1:37pm

kneemos wrote: »

Changed it to ten during the last boom because everyone was drinking themselves into a coma every night.
Weekends started on a Wednesday.

And finished on a Tuesday!
Partayyyyy

Edgware · 19-06-2019 1:44pm

kneemos wrote: »

Changed it to ten during the last boom because everyone was drinking themselves into a coma every night.
Weekends started on a Wednesday.

Cienciano wrote: »

I'm surprised it took 16 posts for someone to post this. It's one of those "we need to be saved from the demon drink" rules. But apparently it's fine for pubs to do it because lots of TD's were publicans. Same way rent is crazy right now but that's fine because lots of TD's are landlords.
The culture needs to change. Anyone remember Michael McDowell trying to encourage café bar culture in Ireland? I'm no fan of MMD, but it was a good idea, trying to change the culture and encourage people to have food with their drink. He was laughed out of the Dail because the TD's there all owned pubs and it would have effected them and their pub licences.

The 12:30 rule on a sunday afternoon is particularly dumb.

But then you might skip Mass

odyssey06 · 19-06-2019 1:47pm

Edgware wrote: »

But then you might skip Mass

Or worse ... turn up swigging out of a bottle of Buckfast!

There's a particularly unholy alliance between the "we should be the only ones allowed to sell drink" vintners and the "we know better than you do" brigade behind all of this.

....... · 19-06-2019 1:49pm

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I've got the kids with me, a week's worth of groceries. What do they think I'm going to do, crack it open in the car park at 10 in the morning?

What IS the point of this?

I mean really?

I dunno how many times I see people turned down for booze at the checkout because its bloody 10.25am (or 12.25 on a sunday).

Its just ridiculous. There should be no restrictions on serving alcohol other than the place having to have a licence to sell it.

odyssey06 · 19-06-2019 1:49pm

The only good thing that can be said in favour of 1030 hours on a Saturday is that it means I can have a lie in and still hit LIDL for half price wine

.

odyssey06 · 19-06-2019 1:50pm

....... wrote: »

What IS the point of this?
I mean really?
I dunno how many times I see people turned down for booze at the checkout because its bloody 10.25am (or 12.25 on a sunday).
Its just ridiculous. There should be no restrictions on serving alcohol other than the place having to have a licence to sell it.

There is no point to it. It's anti-competitive deliberately in nature brought in by venal Fianna Fail politicians as a sop to vintners.

Jimmy McGill · 19-06-2019 1:57pm

Both pubs and off licences should have their opening hours extended IMO. For instance on Sunday's off licences can't sell alcohol until 12.30pm and the vast majority of pubs close at 11pm on a Sunday also which is ridiculous. Especially since the traditional working week has changed and a lot of people work obscure hours these days. Also what about my body, my choice?

amadangomor · 19-06-2019 2:19pm

When you see how casual it is on the continent it makes a mockery of this nanny state law. You can get cans in chippers in a lot of Europe ffs.

I remember as well that there was little enforcement of the law with previous off licence hours we had and if you asked nicely and weren't staggering you had a decent chance of being able to buy alcohol later/earlier in shops. The 10 o'clock thing just cemented the law in the eyes of shop keepers.

Giblet · 19-06-2019 2:25pm

Sunday 12:30 is a pain in the hole, especially as I do my shopping Sunday morning when it's quieter. No reason for it, might want a can during a game or something and have to run up before hand like an alco instead of sneaking it in with the rest of the shopping.

harry Bailey esq · 19-06-2019 2:32pm

Balanadan wrote: »

What about people who get up early on a Sunday morning to do their shopping and have to make a separate trip to buy alcohol after 12:30?

I'm fairly well stocked with an assortment of various drinks at home. Spirits/beers/wines etc. I don't go shopping on a Sunday, I go for a long stroll with the dog. I usually leave around 7/8 and get back about 11ish. Im always equipped with a 350ml hipflask. Depending on the weather I'll fill it with rum, whiskey and on rare occasions vodka. But I'll always have a mix and a glass in my bag for the vodka. If it's a particular nice morning I'll leave the flask at home and bring an eight pack of beer. Eitherways, every Sunday by the time I'm home I'm half cut and well before the offo opens. I'm still of the belief that the licensing laws for off sales should be 24 hours, with the opening hours left to the discretion of the owner of each individual off licence.

veryangryman · 19-06-2019 2:42pm

Since we'll all shortly be forced to "be organised" with E Cars and the like, the alcohol rule is a decent warm up.

I cant remember ever being short of beer stocked up. Plenty in storage. Look after the crates and the cans will look after themselves.

JohnnyFlash · 19-06-2019 2:45pm

Just ring Dial-A-Can. You pay a premium alright, but those Chinese guys will have a slab delivered to your door in about 30 minutes.

amadangomor · 19-06-2019 2:48pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Just ring Dial-A-Can. You pay a premium alright, but those Chinese guys will have a slab delivered to your door in about 30 minutes.

Knew some Brazilians doing this a few years ago, made good money at it. What would punters be prepared to pay for a slab these days?

JohnnyFlash · 19-06-2019 2:50pm

amadangomor wrote: »

Knew some Brazilians doing this a few years ago, made good money at it. What would punters be prepared to pay for a slab these days?

50 eurons.

Jimmy McGill · 19-06-2019 2:52pm

amadangomor wrote: »

Knew some Brazilians doing this a few years ago, made good money at it. What would punters be prepared to pay for a slab these days?

In my area its €30 for 20 bottles after hours, not sure about slabs.

meeeeh · 19-06-2019 3:28pm

amadangomor wrote: »

When you see how casual it is on the continent it makes a mockery of this nanny state law. You can get cans in chippers in a lot of Europe ffs.

Plenty of continental countries limit sale of alcohol and some like Germany limit Sunday opening times of shops.

Anyway it doesn't bother me. I don't have alcohol issues so I can buy alcohol and store it at home without drinking years worth of alcohol in a day.

....... · 19-06-2019 3:35pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't have alcohol issues so I can buy alcohol and store it at home without drinking years worth of alcohol in a day.

^^ This is a bizarre statement. You dont have to have a drink problem to sometimes want to buy booze before 10.30am!

I dont have alcohol issues either but the day before xmas eve 2 years ago it took me 3 hours to drive to the local Tesco at 11am. A trip that had taken me 10 minutes at 8am. But I had to go back after 10.30am because I wanted to buy alcohol.

As it stands I have been refused alcohol loads of times with the weekly shop because I am an early riser and like to get out and the shopping done early before the crowds arrive and parking is more difficult.

meeeeh · 19-06-2019 3:44pm

....... wrote: »

^^ This is a bizarre statement. You dont have to have a drink problem to sometimes want to buy booze before 10.30am!

I dont have alcohol issues either but the day before xmas eve 2 years ago it took me 3 hours to drive to the local Tesco at 11am. A trip that had taken me 10 minutes at 8am. But I had to go back after 10.30am because I wanted to buy alcohol.

As it stands I have been refused alcohol loads of times with the weekly shop because I am an early riser and like to get out and the shopping done early before the crowds arrive and parking is more difficult.

I don't think any alcohol is worth spending three hours in traffic.

I don't even notice opening times and even if I missed them I usually restock well before we run out of stuff.

....... · 19-06-2019 3:47pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't think any alcohol is worth spending three hours in traffic.

I don't even notice opening times and even if I missed them I usually restock well before we run out of stuff.

It was the day before xmas eve. Once in the traffic there was no way of getting out of it. And I needed the booze for the entertaining we were doing over xmas, because we dont "store" alcohol at home - well not enough for several people at once anyway. I can just imagine the in laws if theyd arrived for the gathering and I primly told them "well I dont think any alcohol is worth spending three hours in traffic" - get a grip!

Maybe you dont go shopping as early as me. But if you are an early riser its a massive pain in the arse to have to go back out later on when the traffic, parking and crowds are worse.

On a more general note, I despise the government restricting the time I am "allowed" to buy anything.

If I want a bottle of booze at 8am then why shouldnt I be allowed to buy one?

Balanadan · 19-06-2019 3:50pm

It punishes people who are responsible drinkers who don't store crates of drink at home.

odyssey06 · 19-06-2019 3:52pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Anyway it doesn't bother me. I don't have alcohol issues so I can buy alcohol and store it at home without drinking years worth of alcohol in a day.

I don't have alcohol issues. I have storage issues.
Plus bargain hunting issues on a Sunday morning...

meeeeh · 19-06-2019 4:25pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

I don't have alcohol issues. I have storage issues.
Plus bargain hunting issues on a Sunday morning...

I'm not one of those people who consider visiting Aldi on Sunday morning fun pursuit.

Anyway alcohol issues comment was tongue in cheek however I really don't see the issue. It was never easier to shop than it is now. I don'toverly mind when alcohol is sold in the morning but 10 o'clock closing limits drunken trips in car to off licence, drunk kids or young adults trying to buy extra quantities of alcohol. This isn't some unique Irish solution, if you check around Europe quite a few countries have restrictions. It tends to be the ones with a bit problematic attitude to alcohol.

YFlyer · 19-06-2019 5:01pm

Felipe Vast Misfortune wrote: »

I used to work then manage an off licence for a decade or so (up to about half way through that decade it was 11.30 I finished), this so much....it was a busy off licence but the shop quietened down really most nights around 10/10.30pm and the last hour it was just the odd person in for an "emergency" Ciggies or Naggins….and how hard is it to go to an offy between 10.30am/12.30 on sunday -10pm

Why 12:30 on a Sunday?

Jimmy McGill · 19-06-2019 5:12pm

YFlyer wrote: »

Why 12:30 on a Sunday?

So people don't drink before mass

YFlyer · 19-06-2019 5:13pm

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Whatever about the evening opening hours, the morning ones are a pain in the hoop. If you want to pick up a few bottles of wine with your weekly shop, you can't do it too early in the morning, particularly on a Sunday.

I've got the kids with me, a week's worth of groceries. What do they think I'm going to do, crack it open in the car park at 10 in the morning?

And don't bring the kids with you to the supermarket when they're around 16 years old.

YFlyer · 19-06-2019 5:25pm

Jimmy McGill wrote: »

So people don't drink before mass

And watching the priest drinking the blue nun.

Scoundrel · 19-06-2019 5:28pm

Balanadan wrote: »

What about people who get up early on a Sunday morning to do their shopping and have to make a separate trip to buy alcohol after 12:30?

The people of Yemen are holding a benefit concert for them due to their insufferable hardship.

Off licence closing times - should they be restricted from selling past 10pm?

Do you agree with the 10pm cut off point for buying alcohol in a shop in Ireland? 330 votes

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