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Friend never told me he was gay

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  • 03-11-2018 9:50pm
    #1
    eaglach
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭


    My story goes that my friend recently came out to me as gay, which came as a complete surprise. You might say "so what"? Well the thing is that I came out to this same guy about 10 years ago. He was like the 2nd or 3rd person I ever told and confided in him at a time when I found it very difficult to come to terms with it myself. I even told him how depressed I was then.

    I understand people have their own issues and it takes everyone a different amount of time to come out, but I honestly felt let down. I had zero gay friends to talk to about it at the time so I was left to figure it out on my own.

    I know what he is going through, coming out, and I've tried to help him, but at the back of my mind I just can't help thinking if he had just told me all those years ago life for both of us would have been all that easier. I feel like my trust in him has disappeared. Am I wrong to be disappointed in him?


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    #2
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    But you need to re read the first line of your second paragraph again, "I understand people have their own issues and it takes everyone a different amount of time to come out"

    Therein lies possibly the answer.

    When you came out to him, it "might" have pushed him further down his denial path,who knows?

    For many struggling with their sexuality ,when they meet someone who is gay or someone comes out to them (as you did ) it can have a profound affect on them which is all very understandable.

    Your friend came out when it was right for HIM, no one else, (as it should be). Whatever you feel right now, be it betrayal or hurt, let it go and be there for your friend. Embrace the real him and have a laugh.

    Dont be disappointed in him, be happy for him and you.


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    #3
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Not sure why your trust in your friend is diminished by this. What age was he when you came out to him? He may have been in deep denial about his sexuality or he may simply not have been ready to come out at that time. He had no obligation to tell you anything. You say it was very hard for you, and believe me I know how lonely it is when you're just out and have no gay mates, but was he there for you as a friend and did he do his best to help you at the time?

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #4
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I feel like you are focusing too much on yourself here. Yes things were difficult for you 10 years ago but things have moved on since.

    I almost find it strange that you are almost blaming him for not being out bevause you needed a gay friend 10 years ago when you came out.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #5
    eaglach
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭eaglach


    This is what I was torn about. Initially I was happy for him telling me and being able to open up, but then after a series of events (unrelated to being gay) I felt a lot of his actions were selfish. I'm not saying that what he did was selfish, but what I'm getting from the responses here is that it's all about looking out for yourself in this scenario, right?

    But where do you draw the line? Of course coming out is tough, and I understand what he is going through, but I went through it too without any help. This isn't a sob story for my situation, but I know if I saw my friend going through a tough time I'd try to help him as much as I could, but I didn't get any of that with him. In fact, I thought his reaction was the worst out of all my friends. He basically didn't even acknowledge it which made it even worse for me. Looking back now it makes sense in a way, but I still feel let down.


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    #6
    Call me Al
    Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    I'm unsure what you're upset about here to be honest. Eta there seems to be more going on here for you. What do you mean when you say looking out for number one?
    Is it the series of (recent?) unrelated events which have led you to believe that he's selfish? Or that he wasn't there for you more when you came out 10 years ago?
    Right now, for your friend, his public acceptance of his sexuality has nothing to do with you. And that's as it should be.


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    #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I mean this in as polite a way as you can read it, but get over yourself. Your friend coming out is not in the least bit about you. You have your path in life, your friend has theirs. Sometimes your paths cross at points where you can help each other and at other times you’ll have to make decisions and deal with things on your own. Friendships are not about life commitment to one another to the same degree as a partner relationship, where absolute honesty and transparency about what is affecting you is the ideal. A friendship should let you share what you want when you want, so adjust your expectations now and be a good friend.


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    #8
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    eaglach wrote: »
    This is what I was torn about. Initially I was happy for him telling me and being able to open up, but then after a series of events (unrelated to being gay) I felt a lot of his actions were selfish. I'm not saying that what he did was selfish, but what I'm getting from the responses here is that it's all about looking out for yourself in this scenario, right?

    But where do you draw the line? Of course coming out is tough, and I understand what he is going through, but I went through it too without any help. This isn't a sob story for my situation, but I know if I saw my friend going through a tough time I'd try to help him as much as I could, but I didn't get any of that with him. In fact, I thought his reaction was the worst out of all my friends. He basically didn't even acknowledge it which made it even worse for me. Looking back now it makes sense in a way, but I still feel let down.

    I feel like you are making this all about you. Its not. I think you need to accept the past and move on.

    Your friend needs support now. Dont focus on the past. Focus on now and the future.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #9
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    Different people handle these things different ways. For some it’s a lot more confusing and that’s not necessarily anything to do with being shy about stuff.

    I’m bi and I had *huge* issues with gay friends of mine telling me that “you’re kidding yourself” and so on over the years to the point that I didn’t bother telling people most of the time as they were so judgmental. It's improved a bit in recent years, but it was pretty common not all that long ago and still happens occasionally.

    Also you have no idea how he processes this in his head. For some people their sexual orientation may be something very much at the back of their mind for someone else it’s a huge part of who they are. People vary enormously. The only thing you can do is be supportive and just be his friend.

    I still get the odd raised eyebrow when people realise I’m not straight and it’s kinda annoying!

    At the end of the day, life’s too short and precious to spend it analyzing someone to that level.


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    #10
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,410 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Have you asked him why he felt he couldn't confide in you when you came out? Seems like the logical place to start.

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #11
    Call me Al
    Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Call me Al


    eaglach wrote: »
    This is what I was torn about. Initially I was happy for him telling me and being able to open up, but then after a series of events (unrelated to being gay) I felt a lot of his actions were selfish. I'm not saying that what he did was selfish, but what I'm getting from the responses here is that it's all about looking out for yourself in this scenario, right?

    But where do you draw the line? Of course coming out is tough, and I understand what he is going through, but I went through it too without any help. This isn't a sob story for my situation, but I know if I saw my friend going through a tough time I'd try to help him as much as I could, but I didn't get any of that with him. In fact, I thought his reaction was the worst out of all my friends. He basically didn't even acknowledge it which made it even worse for me. Looking back now it makes sense in a way, but I still feel let down.
    Sorry but, despite what you claim, it really does seem to be a sob story all about you.
    Move on. Be happy for him. And provide the support that you feel you missed out on.


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    #12
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    I'd agree. You never, ever, ever guilt trip someone about why they didn't come out.

    Basically, you have no idea why he didn't come out sooner - most likely he just wasn't ready to or was mulling it over or wasn't sure where he stood. However, some people were also bought up in far more conservative environments than many of us were lucky enough to have experienced.

    Also, some people just aren't very comfortable talking about their sex lives and would consider coming out to be part of that. It doesn't mean they're internally homophobic or something, rather that they could just be shy or not comfortable talking about sexuality generally.

    Also don't 'mind read' that's actually just projecting your own feelings and logic onto someone else.

    Different people have different personalities, different focuses and different priorities.

    As a friend, your only concern really is to support your friend.


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    #13
    Manion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭Manion


    Maybe he felt you might make it all about you?


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    #14
    eaglach
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭eaglach


    JayZeus wrote: »
    I mean this in as polite a way as you can read it, but get over yourself. Your friend coming out is not in the least bit about you. You have your path in life, your friend has theirs. Sometimes your paths cross at points where you can help each other and at other times you’ll have to make decisions and deal with things on your own. Friendships are not about life commitment to one another to the same degree as a partner relationship, where absolute honesty and transparency about what is affecting you is the ideal. A friendship should let you share what you want when you want, so adjust your expectations now and be a good friend.

    Firstly, I have to say that your first line isn't polite at all and doesn't help phrasing it in that way. I have an issue, asking for advice and you tell me to get over myself? It's a very childish approach and is unproductive if you ask me.

    As for the remainder of your post, I understand that there is no solid commitment to one another, but isn't true friendship about helping each other out in times of need? Is looking for help from friends really that selfish?
    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I feel like you are making this all about you. Its not. I think you need to accept the past and move on.

    Your friend needs support now. Dont focus on the past. Focus on now and the future.

    Well yes, I am unashamedly making this about me as it's my problem I'm asking advice on i.e. how I'm reacting to the situation. If I made this all about him then there's not really a topic to discuss!
    Call me Al wrote: »
    Sorry but, despite what you claim, it really does seem to be a sob story all about you.
    Move on. Be happy for him. And provide the support that you feel you missed out on.

    I think sob story is a bit of a stretch and is again a very negative tone. I don't know why people respond in this fashion when I'm looking for support and advice.

    I am honestly curious, would you not be a little bit disappointed that a friend of yours couldn't confide in you with a problem he/she had? Maybe it says more about me than him.

    The more I talk the more I think I should just keep my mouth shut and don't get involved in anyone else's business, just keep to myself.


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    #15
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    In terms of the question overall OP I don't think that your friend let you down.

    Of course there will be or could be details to the story that we don't know.

    In terms of them having had a responsibility to you they were gay when you told them you were gay, why are you so certain that everything was so clear cut in the past.


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    #16
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    eaglach wrote: »
    saw my friend going through a tough time I'd try to help him as much as I could, but I didn't get any of that with him. In fact, I thought his reaction was the worst out of all my friends. He basically didn't even acknowledge it which made it even worse for me.

    I think this part of your comment speaks volumes. I said earlier that you coming out to him might have pushed him further down his denial path and by the looks of things, how he reacted to you ect proves that point.

    Again I would say, move on, forget about what happened and be happy. Lifes too short.


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eaglach wrote: »
    am honestly curious, would you not be a little bit disappointed that a friend of yours couldn't confide in you with a problem he/she had? Maybe it says more about me than him.

    I would think that to be the case alright.


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    #18
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,871 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    eaglach wrote: »
    Firstly, I have to say that your first line isn't polite at all and doesn't help phrasing it in that way. I have an issue, asking for advice and you tell me to get over myself? It's a very childish approach and is unproductive if you ask me.

    As for the remainder of your post, I understand that there is no solid commitment to one another, but isn't true friendship about helping each other out in times of need? Is looking for help from friends really that selfish?



    Well yes, I am unashamedly making this about me as it's my problem I'm asking advice on i.e. how I'm reacting to the situation. If I made this all about him then there's not really a topic to discuss!



    I think sob story is a bit of a stretch and is again a very negative tone. I don't know why people respond in this fashion when I'm looking for support and advice.

    I am honestly curious, would you not be a little bit disappointed that a friend of yours couldn't confide in you with a problem he/she had? Maybe it says more about me than him.

    The more I talk the more I think I should just keep my mouth shut and don't get involved in anyone else's business, just keep to myself.

    When I read this first I did see this as kind of you almost wallowing in self pity about the past. Perhaps it isnt but that is what I thought. I think for me if my friend came out I would probably be focused on; what can I do to support them now and into the future. I am really not trying to criticise you or offend you there these are just my perceptions and an explanation of what I would do.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #19
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    What you need to realise is that people can't come out until they have accepted it themselves and are fully ready. I had people I'm close to come out to me before I came out myself and the was no way I could have told them then, the thought of telling anyone ever still utterly terrified me. In some cases, them coming out to me made me feel even less able to come out myself.

    Sounds like you have other issues with your friends behaviour but it's completely unfair and unreasonable to expect your friend to have come out to you on the spot 10 years ago just because you were ready at the time.


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    #20
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    eaglach wrote: »
    Firstly, I have to say that your first line isn't polite at all and doesn't help phrasing it in that way. I have an issue, asking for advice and you tell me to get over myself? It's a very childish approach and is unproductive if you ask me.

    As for the remainder of your post, I understand that there is no solid commitment to one another, but isn't true friendship about helping each other out in times of need? Is looking for help from friends really that selfish?



    Well yes, I am unashamedly making this about me as it's my problem I'm asking advice on i.e. how I'm reacting to the situation. If I made this all about him then there's not really a topic to discuss!



    I think sob story is a bit of a stretch and is again a very negative tone. I don't know why people respond in this fashion when I'm looking for support and advice.

    I am honestly curious, would you not be a little bit disappointed that a friend of yours couldn't confide in you with a problem he/she had? Maybe it says more about me than him.

    The more I talk the more I think I should just keep my mouth shut and don't get involved in anyone else's business, just keep to myself.

    I actually agree with you Eaglach, and I think there has been a bit of a rush to judgement here.

    People need to realise that it is possible to hold two competing feelings in one's head at the same time. You can be genuinely happy for your friend, you can understand the reasons for why he didn't come out, or wasn't in a position to offer more support all those years ago and still also feel hurt and confused.

    Another poster has made the very valid point that your coming out ten years ago may have had an adverse impact on your friend's readiness, or at the very least how he was feeling. This is true. It follows also that your friend's coming out now, particularly as it is complicated by your own situation all those years ago can impact how you feel and the memories you have from that time were obviously going to be dredged up and become more raw, at least for a time. I do not think we are being fair and supportive if we kind of just say 'oh well get over it', as though it wasn't a valid feeling that needs to find expression.

    From my own perspective, I was basically out throughout secondary school. There was times when I was very badly bullied, there was times when I had to stand alone in the face of homophobia and when I was the only one who would/could speak out in defence of gay people. Of course I knew even then that I wasn't truly alone, that there were other gay people in my year, in the school and among my friends.

    Today those friends are out and proud and it is wonderful and I love them and am so happy for them, at the same time sometimes when I think about it does hurt that I was left to fend for my self. I know and believe that everyone must come out at the time of their choosing, but honestly that doesn;t meant it wouldn't have been easier and appreciated if someone else had been in the position to be a support, or even frankly just another target so I wasn't the focus all of the time. I am not going to erase what was a part of my coming out experience, a real and valid feeling just because it is a little uncomfortable.

    At the same time I do believe the sum of the advice on this thread is ultimately correct. There is no profit to be had in mulling over these feelings, just as there is no benefit to pretending they don't exist. Allow yourself to explore the feeling, try to understand it but also put in context. Realise that for better and worse you came out ten years ago, and at the time your friend wasn't able to help you. Ten years later Eaglach you are out and alive and your friend is now out also. Focus on the future you can build not on the past you can't change, no matter how much you might want to, or indeed how much your friend my wish he could aswell.


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