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Fees for executing will

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  • 30-05-2017 8:27am
    #1
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭


    Can I ask a question regarding fees for a solicitor executing a will?

    Straightforward stuff. Solicitor executing a will which they originally drafted. Spouse to spouse beneficiary only. Assets are house (jointly owned, no mortgage), joint savings accounts (modest), no debts, only income is State pension.

    Ballpark guesstimates appreciated


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    #2
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Nil.

    Jointly owned property pass by survivorship.

    If no other assets outside of joint property no need to extract the grant.


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    #3
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #4
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Not really.

    If its registered in joint names its already in the survivors name.

    Just send in the Death cert as far as I know but I'm not a conveyancer.


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    #5
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,346 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    As above, unless a grant of probate is required to unlock financial assets, I'd see no reason to do anything.

    But to answer the OP's question - solicitors typically quote a % of the value of the estate as a fee which means that as property values go up, so do their fees even though the complexity of the probate seldom has anything to do with the value of the assets, especially where the principal asset is a single house.


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    #6
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Thanks everyone, I can't go in to the details but from what posters have said, something is terribly wrong with my situation


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    #7
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    If the house is in joint ownership , when one person dies, the ownership of the house automatically transfers to the surviving person. To execute the will the solicitor will charge a % of the value of the estate plus expenses, with my Dad's will , I priced two solicitors, they both wanted 3% which would have been €23000 even though it was a straightforward transfer to my mother , myself and my sister took out probate on the will and executed it for zero .


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    #8
    NUTLEY BOY
    Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    If, for any particular reason, an executor wanted to extract a grant of probate it could be done as a personal applicant with no need for a solicitor.

    A personal application is alright if the estate is not complex, all the requisite proofs are in place (original will, documents vouching certain assets and so on) and the applicant is diligent and precise with paperwork.

    I think that the stamp duty rate for personal applications is slightly higher than for an application from a solicitor.

    Mind you, the Probate Office can still decide to direct a personal applicant to make the application through a solicitor.

    P.S. There is no obligation to instruct the solicitor /firm who drafted the original will to deal with probate when the need for it arises. That is one reason for holding the original will in a safe place once it has been executed.


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    #9
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #10
    NUTLEY BOY
    Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    See Probate Office guide PA1.

    ARE THERE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THE PROBATE OFFICE’S PERSONAL APPLICANT PROCEDURE CANNOT BE USED?

    (x) Any other circumstances, which, in the opinion of the Probate Officer, require the assistance of a Solicitor. The decision of the Probate Officer in this regard is final.


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    #11
    NUTLEY BOY
    Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I would have thought not.

    If a firm of solicitors is nominated as executor(s) I do not believe that any other party has the right to usurp that specific nomination and appointment.


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    #12
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,346 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    No, they can't if the solicitors are named as executors, unless the family can show that the solicitors are incompetent or dragging their heels.

    There is another situation which can arise (happened me, as executor) where a will is drawn up by a solicitor who inserts a clause directing that that firm of solicitors be used in the process of probate e.g. family member or friend John Smith is named as executor but the will stipulates that the firm of Markby, Markby and Markby (solrs.) should do the probate.

    While it may be written into the will, it is not binding on the executor (because it is not concerned with the disposition of assets) and the mere fact of putting it in the will is disgraceful conduct as far as I'm concerned. I ignored it and did personal probate.


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    #13
    seagull
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭seagull


    My mother used to work in the estates department in a firm of accountants. Their policy was that they would waive all fees relating to drawing up the will if the company were named as executors.


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    #14
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,346 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    seagull wrote: »
    My mother used to work in the estates department in a firm of accountants. Their policy was that they would waive all fees relating to drawing up the will if the company were named as executors.

    A good investment in future business. What you'd charge for drawing up a will is peanuts compared to the fee you'd earn get if you end up charging a % of the value of the estate for doing the probate, especially with property prices back on the rise again.

    The money saved by the testator for his 'free' will would be paid several times over by his heirs.


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    #15
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    probate is a fooking bonanza for little or no effort but with massive fees (based on estate %) for solicitors and accountants.

    cut them out of if if possible.

    make sure that neither are appointed as executors in a will.


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    #17
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,346 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    glasso wrote: »
    probate is a fooking bonanza for little or no effort but with massive fees (based on estate %) for solicitors and accountants.

    cut them out of if if possible.

    make sure that neither are appointed as executors in a will.

    All you can do as a testator is name an executor and omit the clause mandating that a specific firm of solicitors is to be used.

    But you can't declare in your will that no professionals are to be used for the probate (ok, you can, but it has no legal effect) so there's nothing to stop the executor from offloading the work of probate onto a firm of solicitors.


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    #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    coylemj wrote: »
    All you can do as a testator is name an executor and omit the clause mandating that a specific firm of solicitors is to be used.

    But you can't declare in your will that no professionals are to be used for the probate (ok, you can, but it has no legal effect) so there's nothing to stop the executor from offloading the work of probate onto a firm of solicitors.

    but at least then you can seek quotes instead of being stuck with a named party.


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    #19
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    Can I ask a question regarding fees for a solicitor executing a will?

    Straightforward stuff. Solicitor executing a will which they originally drafted. Spouse to spouse beneficiary only. Assets are house (jointly owned, no mortgage), joint savings accounts (modest), no debts, only income is State pension.

    Ballpark guesstimates appreciated

    Can you clarify two points, please:

    1. Do you have children or do you have any other beneficiaries to be taken into account other than your wife? For instance, if you and your wife are killed simultaneously in an accident, is there anybody else that you would like to benefit from your estate (outside of the rules of intestasy, which apply in cases where no Will is made).

    2. You ask how much for the solicitor to execute the will. Can you clarify this, please. The reason that I ask is that the testator executes the Will. The solicitor merely drafts the Will and ensures that it properly executed by the testator. So I wonder whether you are asking about fees to organise the proper execution of your Will while you are alive or the fees for administering your estate after you die.


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    #20
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,346 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    I'm pretty sure that the OP is asking how much it will cost to do probate on the estate of one of her parents who has died recently.


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    #21
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Apologies Pat for not replying sooner. Events overtook me.

    The will is my late father's. My mother is the sole beneficiary. All assets were in joint names except the house which was in my father's name only.

    Will was drawn up by the same solicitor who is executing it and knew all of the above.


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    #22
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,346 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    Will was drawn up by the same solicitor who is executing it and knew all of the above.

    Have you discussed fees with the solicitor? Sound like it would be a bit late now if you haven't.

    As discussed earlier in this thread, there is no obligation on the executor to use that same solicitor, just because he drew up the will and even if he inserted a stipulation in the will that he be used to do the probate.


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    #23
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    Apologies Pat for not replying sooner. Events overtook me.

    The will is my late father's. My mother is the sole beneficiary. All assets were in joint names except the house which was in my father's name only.

    Will was drawn up by the same solicitor who is executing it and knew all of the above.

    Okay, when a Will is signed, it is executed by the person who signs it. So what we are really talking about here are fees for administration of an estate.

    There are some conflicts in what you say so there is a certain lack of clarity:
    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    Assets are house (jointly owned,
    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    All assets were in joint names except the house which was in my father's name only.


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    #24
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Sorry, I should have clarified the house situation. I had assumed the house was in joint names, but it isn't. I discovered this between my original post and the subsequent one.All other assets were joint

    My brother is really handling matters but he has been advised by the solicitor that it is going to cost a minimum of €5k to finalise this


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    #25
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    Sorry, I should have clarified the house situation. I had assumed the house was in joint names, but it isn't. I discovered this between my original post and the subsequent one.All other assets were joint

    My brother is really handling matters but he has been advised by the solicitor that it is going to cost a minimum of €5k to finalise this

    Thanks for the clarification.

    If you have not agreed fees etc. at this stage, you may be able to ring around other firms for quotes.


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    #26
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Pat Mustard wrote: »
    Thanks for the clarification.

    If you have not agreed fees etc. at this stage, you may be able to ring around other firms for quotes.

    Unfortunately it's a family 'friend' situation and the process is nearly complete. I only heard about it recently. Thanks for the help


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    #27
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,346 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    If your father left the house 100% to your mother and she is unlikely to sell it during the reminder of her life, there isn't really much point in changing the deeds of the house into her name so I can't see why that solicitor is doing work which will cost your mother 5K and achieve practically very little if anything.

    You said that all of the other assets (I assume that includes bank accounts) were in their joint names, that would have made a good case for doing personal probate and cutting out the solicitor completely.

    I was an executor back in 2004, a simple estate with one property and a few bank accounts, zero complication. I got a quote from a family 'friend' which was simply a % of the value of the estate, at the time when property prices were sky high. I said 'no thanks' and did it myself. A family member inherited the property so she didn't bother changing the deeds for several years, I forget why did she did in the end.


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    #28
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    Exactly as you put it, but I have only come in at the tail end. My late Father would kill me if I was to get into any sort of row over a bill of any kind. Old school.


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    #29
    paulinhio
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭paulinhio


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    Can I ask a question regarding fees for a solicitor executing a will?

    Straightforward stuff. Solicitor executing a will which they originally drafted. Spouse to spouse beneficiary only. Assets are house (jointly owned, no mortgage), joint savings accounts (modest), no debts, only income is State pension.

    Ballpark guesstimates appreciated

    Hi,

    Sorry to bother you with this a year later(!) but can I ask; did you proceed with the solicitor in the end? I'm in a similar situation now. Well, mother passed away (father long gone) and her will dictates estate be divided 3 ways (me and 2 siblings). Very straightforward - the house, few quid in the bank and few quid in the credit union. Solicitor quoting €4k plus another €2k to sell the house! I'm thinking 'I'll do it myself'! Is that difficult though?...


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    #30
    wazzoraybelle
    Registered Users Posts: 659 ✭✭✭wazzoraybelle


    paulinhio wrote: »
    Hi,

    Sorry to bother you with this a year later(!) but can I ask; did you proceed with the solicitor in the end? I'm in a similar situation now. Well, mother passed away (father long gone) and her will dictates estate be divided 3 ways (me and 2 siblings). Very straightforward - the house, few quid in the bank and few quid in the credit union. Solicitor quoting €4k plus another €2k to sell the house! I'm thinking 'I'll do it myself'! Is that difficult though?...

    I extracted probate last year on my mums estate. It's really quite straightforward if other beneficiaries are on board and amicable. Probate office can be helpful if you get stuck. Really no need for solicitors at all if the estate is uncomplicated. Got a lot of sideways glances from bank managers and the like, but everything went remarkably smoothly and quickly. Had a 14 week wait for the Probate Office appointment (which is quick btw).


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