Dublin Coach Experience Discussion Thread

soundman45 · 24-10-2017 8:53am

I was waiting to see when go ahead would start looking for drivers. Any rumor of where there depot etc is likely to be.

brokenarms · 24-10-2017 3:02pm

soundman45 wrote: »

I was waiting to see when go ahead would start looking for drivers. Any rumor of where there depot etc is likely to be.

there is a thread on it. I am also waiting to see. I think they are going to be massive in Dublin in time.

devnull · 24-10-2017 8:02pm

Tourismo broke down close to Naas tonight.
https://www.facebook.com/LGCSV/photos/a.420491724728552.1073741829.416273205150404/1344051315705917/?type=3&theater

boardsuser1 · 24-10-2017 8:16pm

One of the recent purchases.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/darren_hall/37856792806/in/feed

devnull · 24-10-2017 8:20pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

One of the recent purchases.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/darren_hall/37856792806/in/feed

Reading the text alongside that image provides a far more negative picture about the state of the fleet renewal than has been reported elsewhere if it's correct.

It suggests that the 4x 2010 Setras they took in recently that were ex Shearings are only on loan to be replaced by new vehicles and there are only 6 new vehicles on order.

boardsuser1 · 24-10-2017 8:25pm

devnull wrote: »

Reading the text alongside that image provides a far more negative picture about the state of the fleet renewal than has been reported elsewhere if it's correct.

It suggests that the 4x 2010 Setras they took in recently that were ex Shearings are only on loan to be replaced by new vehicles and there are only 6 new vehicles on order.

If the setra's are only on loan to be replaced by 6 Tourismo's that will only mean a net increase of 2 coaches less any breakdowns.

I just had a look on RTOL.ie and the amount of vehicles in the fleet is huge.

The recently charred vehicles are yet to be de-listed either.

Has it been established if the one that lost wheels was the same one that caught fire on the same day?

Edit:

Darren Hall is a man with 3-4 decades of photography experience in buses etc.

He is very close friends with many DB & BE employees and is also an owner of a preserved double decker bus himself.

His knowledge is second to none.

The Setra's are interestingly registered to Kildare where John O'Sullivan resides, which is odd for a loan.

On loan from who though?

joegriffinjnr · 24-10-2017 8:27pm

devnull wrote: »

Reading the text alongside that image provides a far more negative picture about the state of the fleet renewal than has been reported elsewhere if it's correct.

It suggests that the 4x 2010 Setras they took in recently that were ex Shearings are only on loan to be replaced by new vehicles and there are only 6 new vehicles on order.

They are only registering 6 this year supposedly. There's 12 in mutec unregistered as of this morning. At least one has already entered service.

devnull · 24-10-2017 8:38pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

If the setra's are only on loan to be replaced by 6 Tourismo's that will only mean a net increase of 2 coaches less any breakdowns.

I just had a look on RTOL.ie and the amount of vehicles in the fleet is huge.

The recently charred vehicles are yet to be de-listed either.

They've de-licensed the following in the last few months from RTOL.ie
- 4x 2003 Mercedes Citaro
- 4x 2004 Neoplan Skyliner
- 1x 2004 Setra 415

They've added the following
- 2x 2009 Van Hool Astromega
- 4x 2010 Setra 416

That means they now have 26 coaches dating from 2004 licensed rather than 31.

Note that the above figures do not include vehicles that are licensed but no longer operating in service and any of the vehicles that have recently been involved in incidents.

devnull · 24-10-2017 10:58pm

Another one from same page from Monday:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1500747609973080&set=p.1500747609973080&type=3&permPage=1

22789106_1500747609973080_182622368213833169_n.jpg?oh=cabbeb56b360b0b362b8979542cc7385&oe=5A65DC47

22789106_1500747609973080_182622368213833169_n.jpg?oh=cabbeb56b360b0b362b8979542cc7385&oe=5A65DC47

boardsuser1 · 24-10-2017 11:03pm

devnull wrote: »

Another one from same page.

It’s not even funny anymore how bad they are.

The Setra’s are on loan from Mercedes themselves and will be returned upon delivery of the tourismo’s

devnull · 24-10-2017 11:04pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

It’s not even funny anymore how bad they are.

The Setra’s are on loan from Mercedes themselves and will be returned upon delivery of the tourismo’s

Should have added, that one is from Monday.

boardsuser1 · 24-10-2017 11:08pm

devnull wrote: »

Should have added, that one is from Monday.

It’s coming to the stage where we’ll need a Dublin Coach breakdown/on fire thread given the amount of problems in recent times.

In my time driving the Aircoach I was very very fortunate to never have any problems whatsoever.

devnull · 24-10-2017 11:16pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

It’s coming to the stage where we’ll need a Dublin Coach breakdown/on fire thread given the amount of problems on recent times.

I really hope that there are the 30 coaches coming in that have been reported because they'd need almost all of them to clear out the older vehicles, since in addition to the 26 dating from 2004 they have another 3 dating from 2005 which you cannot imagine will be in much better shape even if they probably have been worked less hard than the ex Aircoach ones.

In my time driving the Aircoach I was very very fortunate to never have any problems whatsoever.

I guess it's down to fleet age as well though and the fact that Aircoach have their Volvo based fleet on a maintenance contract for certain types of work at Irish Commercials probably helps.

Obviously being part of a company like First would probably help them when it comes to getting discounts on things like parts and also have some group wide policies that must be adhered to.

boardsuser1 · 26-10-2017 9:41am

Got up close yesterday to a DC Mercedes Citaro, it was so dirty the registration numbers front and rear were unreadable.

It was at the stop outside Kildare SC.

Not surprising there weren't many people waiting on the bus.

joegriffinjnr · 27-10-2017 7:10pm

The open top City tour arm of the business is in big trouble, very very surprised if it will last another month its that bad.

devnull · 27-10-2017 7:31pm

Looking at their site it seems it will be shut down in its current guise for the winter and replaced by a vintage bus tour.

The website is weird in that most of the site now refers to the vintage tour but some of it still references the previous tours.

Have to wonder what they will do with their fleet of 14 year old open toppers and if they will now depart.

http://cityscapetours.ie/

Stephen15 · 27-10-2017 8:46pm

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

The open top City tour arm of the business is in big trouble, very very surprised if it will last another month its that bad.

Hardly surprising I'd say DB them pushed out of that market. I'd the buses will end being sold over in the UK.

devnull · 27-10-2017 9:17pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Hardly surprising I'd say DB pushed out of that market. I'd the buses will end being sold over in the UK.

The website now has separate options for summer (current tours) and winter (vintage tours) so it remains to be seen if when the winter season is over the open toppers return, although they'll be 15 years old by that stage.

Personally I cannot see that there is a market for three open top tour operators in a city the size of Dublin, if this service does not come back next summer then I'm sure DB and Dualway will breathe a huge sigh of relief.

Plus honestly, having one less business for the management of Dublin Coach to focus on may not be a bad thing since I honestly believe that they've took on too much too quickly and expanded too aggressively which has led to the current issues.

JeffK88 · 27-10-2017 10:45pm

devnull wrote: »

The website now has separate options for summer (current tours) and winter (vintage tours) so it remains to be seen if when the winter season is over the open toppers return, although they'll be 15 years old by that stage.

Personally I cannot see that there is a market for three open top tour operators in a city the size of Dublin, if this service does not come back next summer then I'm sure DB and Dualway will breathe a huge sigh of relief.

Plus honestly, having one less business for the management of Dublin Coach to focus on may not be a bad thing since I honestly believe that they've took on too much too quickly and expanded too aggressively which has led to the current issues.

Ive heard that the tour end of things has resulted in 28 job losses. So whether or not they bring it back in the Summer remains to be seen.

Stephen15 · 27-10-2017 10:55pm

Did the open top that they had that was involved in the Luas crash last year return to service.

Another factor in their tours demise may have been that crash and the resulting pay out and insurance rise.

patrickc · 28-10-2017 10:10am

I hope they maintain those route masters better than their coaches.

joegriffinjnr · 28-10-2017 10:10am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Did the open top that they had that was involved in the Luas crash last year return to service.

Another factor in their tours demise may have that crash and the resulting pay out and insurance rise.

That was the straw that broke the camals back. It cost them over a million euro.

boardsuser1 · 28-10-2017 10:28am

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

That was the straw that broke the camals back. It cost them over a million euro.

The crash in Cork in 2015 will probably exceed that, nonetheless, it's a massive amount of money for any business.

I'll have to drop by the DC yard when i get a chance, i was going to yesterday as i was nearby but after 90 minutes spent sitting on the M50 park i just headed straight in the direction of the M7/8

devnull · 28-10-2017 11:01am

The problem is look at it on the surface the business does need investment and a period where they stop continually expanding because this seems to come at a cost of their pre-existing services.

For example despite the coach fleet running existing routes in need of an overdue upgrade this year, they chose to use their order of 5 new coaches on a brand new route and also transfer the vehicles coming off tours onto this route.

The end result is a fleet that runs the 5 other routes where over half of it is 12-13 years old, a bunch of QuickPark artics that are 13-14 years old, an open top tour ran on 14 year old deckers and vintage buses

I honestly think that they've spread themselves too thin, their expansion into different markets and business areas seems to eat up any cash for investment in their pre-existing markets.

Of course however, as stated on here previously, it could all be about making the business ripe for a takeover since being established in many markets may make it more attractive to someone with deep pockets who would put the investment in.

bebeman · 29-10-2017 12:30am

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

The open top City tour arm of the business is in big trouble, very very surprised if it will last another month its that bad.

From what i have heard the DB tours are in a bit of a pickle as well.
Even though they are a commercial service of DB , the NTA is interfering in the running of them, setting timetables and rosters.
Its as if they want to run down the service to make way for someone else.:eek:

punisher5112 · 29-10-2017 12:43am

bebeman wrote: »

From what i have heard the DB tours are in a bit of a pickle as well.
Even though they are a commercial service of DB , the NTA is interfering in the running of them, setting timetables and rosters.
Its as if they want to run down the service to make way for someone else.:eek:

They have been at this since set up. Db is a thorn in their side and have found a perfect way to dissolve it.

Poor way of doing it and I can see it all been given away to foreign companies like the housing and lan d which is being snapped up.

devnull · 29-10-2017 12:43am

bebeman wrote: »

Even though they are a commercial service of DB , the NTA is interfering in the running of them, setting timetables and rosters.

Can you back up that claim with a source?

The NTA has no control over rosters of a commercial operator whether it would be tours or an intercity, urban, interurban or other types of commercial services since that is a commercial decision.

Tours and other specific targeted services are also not subject to time separation best practices that apply to urban, interurban, interurban express, commuter, rural or multi-stop services that are operated by commercial operators.

Its as if they want to run down the service to make way for someone else.:eek:

Sounds more like a conspiracy theory to me.

If they're doing that, which I don't believe they are, they can't be doing it very well since the new entrant to the market appears to be pulling out leaving the two long established operators to fight it out once again.

punisher5112 · 29-10-2017 12:45am

devnull wrote: »

Can you back up that claim with a source?

The NTA has no control over rosters of a commercial operator whether it would be tours or an intercity, urban, interurban or other types of commercial services since that is a commercial decision.

Tours and other specific targeted services are also not subject to time separation best practices that apply to urban, interurban, interurban express, commuter, rural or multi-stop services that are operated by commercial operators.

Sounds more like a conspiracy theory to me.

If they're doing that, which I don't believe they are, they can't be doing it very well since the new entrant to the market appears to be pulling out leaving the two long established operators to fight it out once again.

They may not be directly but its crazy they gave another licence in the 1st place.

Dublin isn't that big.

Bit like bin companies.

We had 1 now we have multiple trucks running and costs are higher.

devnull · 29-10-2017 12:48am

punisher5112 wrote: »

They may not be directly but its crazy they gave another licence in the 1st place.

Thing was originally Cityscape was offering something different to be honest, a luxury experience with snacks on board and also a coach with storytellers as it was originally set-up, so I see why they gave the license. It was originally aimed at a different market to Dualway and Dublin Bus.

Obviously over time it changed and switched to open top deckers but it seems that whilst Cityscape seemed to pick up the numbers after a slow start, ultimately Dualway and Dublin Buses better service, newer vehicles and long established credentials won out if what we read is true.

punisher5112 · 29-10-2017 12:50am

devnull wrote: »

Thing was originally Cityscape was offering something different to be honest, a luxury experience with snacks on board and also a coach with storytellers as it was originally set-up, so I see why they gave the license. It was originally aimed at a different market to Dualway and Dublin Bus.

Obviously over time it changed and switched to open top deckers but it seems that whilst Cityscape seemed to pick up the numbers after a slow start, ultimately Dualway and Dublin Buses better service, newer vehicles and long established credentials won out if what we read is true.

There was a catch to that.

Only reason they were running those tri axles empty was for tax purposes.

It was not done in anyway to change things.

punisher5112 · 29-10-2017 12:51am

And newer vehicles couldn't be used either as an excuse as db still use 2000 but only pulled much older vehicles recently.

bebeman · 29-10-2017 1:15am

devnull wrote: »

Can you back up that claim with a source?

The NTA has no control over rosters of a commercial operator whether it would be tours or an intercity, urban, interurban or other types of commercial services since that is a commercial decision.

Tours and other specific targeted services are also not subject to time separation best practices that apply to urban, interurban, interurban express, commuter, rural or multi-stop services that are operated by commercial operators.

Sounds more like a conspiracy theory to me.

If they're doing that, which I don't believe they are, they can't be doing it very well since the new entrant to the market appears to be pulling out leaving the two long established operators to fight it out once again.

Got it from the horses mouth, a driver on the tours for 15+ year was telling us all about it just a few months ago.
He now longer drives the tour bus and not just him but many others who have done them for years have now moved off them.
They are drivers who where doing them for 10+.
You dont have to believe it but its true.
The NTA is setting timetables and rosters and they are what we drivers call animals.

Stephen15 · 29-10-2017 1:15am

In the years to come DB will probably become an existant but invisible company no will will even know they still exist apart from employees, bus enthusiast's and people like me who frequent this forum not nessecrily a bad thing.

The NTA clearly do not want DB, BE or IE existing thats more or less the reason they were set up in the first place but the unions will not agree to this, a compromise will met that will allow DB to continue to exist in invisible form and their employees will given the same wage/pension they have currently have.

DB will exist but will have no corprate identity, no glossy website, no livery and most relevant to this no commercial services as their sole source income will be the contract the contract the NTA give them. All employees on their commercial services will be re-assigned to regular services and the commercial services will be sold off to a private company.

Thats why they were rebranded DoDublin so in the long run they can become a subsidary of DB and sold off to the higgest bidder. Its not nessecarily a bad thing either as DB will be able to focus fully on PSO services.

devnull · 29-10-2017 1:23am

bebeman wrote: »

devnull wrote: »

Can you back up that claim with a source?

The NTA has no control over rosters of a commercial operator whether it would be tours or an intercity, urban, interurban or other types of commercial services since that is a commercial decision.

Tours and other specific targeted services are also not subject to time separation best practices that apply to urban, interurban, interurban express, commuter, rural or multi-stop services that are operated by commercial operators.

Sounds more like a conspiracy theory to me.

If they're doing that, which I don't believe they are, they can't be doing it very well since the new entrant to the market appears to be pulling out leaving the two long established operators to fight it out once again.

Got it from the horses mouth, a driver on the tours for 15+ year was telling us all about it just a few months ago.
He now longer drives the tour bus and not just him but many others who have done them for years have now moved off them.
They are drivers who where doing them for 10+.
You dont have to believe it but its true.
The NTA is setting timetables and rosters and they are what we drivers call animals.

So basically we should take your word for it and it's such a big scandal that nobody from the union has mentioned it publicly in an official capacity despite it being known for a few months sounds very far fetched for me and just a wild hyperbolic claim to have a dig at the NTA by any means possible.

bebeman · 29-10-2017 1:32am

devnull wrote: »

The NTA has no control over rosters of a commercial operator whether it would be tours or an intercity, urban, interurban or other types of commercial services since that is a commercial decision.
.

Are the Nightlinks not a commercial service of Dublin Bus?
Did the NTA not declare that the FTP was now accepted on the Nightlinks?
Has the NTA not stated in the new fare revisions that the PSO government money has not increased in 7 years?

The NTA does things that are not supposed to do.

devnull · 29-10-2017 1:37am

bebeman wrote: »

devnull wrote: »

The NTA has no control over rosters of a commercial operator whether it would be tours or an intercity, urban, interurban or other types of commercial services since that is a commercial decision.
.

Are the Nightlinks not a commercial service of Dublin Bus?
Did the NTA not declare that the FTP was now accepted on the Nightlinks?
Has the NTA not stated in the new fare revisions that the PSO government money has not increased in 7 years?

The NTA does things that are not supposed to do.

Pso increased in 2016 and this year and will increase again next year.

You should read the company annual reports and the NTA annual report and the recent budget announcements and you will see that in black and white.

Seems whoever is giving you information isn't very reliable.

bebeman · 29-10-2017 1:44am

devnull wrote: »

Pso increased in 2016 and this year and will increase again next year.

You should read the company annual reports and the NTA annual report and the recent budget announcements and you will see that in black and white.

Seems whoever is giving you information isn't very reliable.

Page 14 of the NTA fare report from Friday.
" The payments that Dublin Bus receive from the Department of Social Protection for carrying people with free travel passes has been frozen for the past 7years at 2010 levels and this is resulting in fare paying passengers partially subsidising those with free travel."
Official NTA document in black and white, why the do you have blinkers on regarding the NTA?
They can do no wrong in your eyes, when the reality is very different.

end of the road · 29-10-2017 4:08am

Stephen15 wrote: »

In the years to come DB will probably become an existant but invisible company no will will even know they still exist apart from employees, bus enthusiast's and people like me who frequent this forum not nessecrily a bad thing.

The NTA clearly do not want DB, BE or IE existing thats more or less the reason they were set up in the first place but the unions will not agree to this, a compromise will met that will allow DB to continue to exist in invisible form and their employees will given the same wage/pension they have currently have.

DB will exist but will have no corprate identity, no glossy website, no livery and most relevant to this no commercial services as their sole source income will be the contract the contract the NTA give them. All employees on their commercial services will be re-assigned to regular services and the commercial services will be sold off to a private company.

Thats why they were rebranded DoDublin so in the long run they can become a subsidary of DB and sold off to the higgest bidder. Its not nessecarily a bad thing either as DB will be able to focus fully on PSO services.

i don't agree. dublin bus and bus eireann are entitled to operate commercial services and if there is any attempt to remove those services from the companies then that must be stamped out.
the NTA's job is to regulate service provision and that is what they should be focusing on. not engaging in politics over the state operators.

devnull · 29-10-2017 10:39am

I see that from TripAdvisor there is reports suggesting that Dublin Coach cut back the service on the hop on hop off tours to one an hour earlier this month and there are quite a few people who were not warned about it and thought they were booking the standard hop on and hop off tour.

bebeman wrote: »

Page 14 of the NTA fare report from Friday.
" The payments that Dublin Bus receive from the Department of Social Protection for carrying people with free travel passes has been frozen for the past 7years at 2010 levels and this is resulting in fare paying passengers partially subsidising those with free travel."

You were talking about PSO originally and PSO has risen for the last number of years and will carry on rising as has been outlined in the recent budget but now I note you change tack and start talking about something totally different when I've called you out for making claims which do not stand up to scrutiny.

The Free Travel pass grant is not PSO, it's not even something that the NTA have control over because it's a scheme that is run by the Department of Social Protection and decisions on that scheme are decided by them and not the NTA.

bebeman · 29-10-2017 3:29pm

devnull wrote: »

The Free Travel pass grant is not PSO, it's not even something that the NTA have control over because it's a scheme that is run by the Department of Social Protection and decisions on that scheme are decided by them and not the NTA.

It was the NTA that said FTP is now for use on nightlink, thats a DB commercial service, so the question is why are the NTA interfering in the running of nightlink?

Stephen15 · 29-10-2017 7:53pm

end of the road wrote: »

i don't agree. dublin bus and bus eireann are entitled to operate commercial services and if there is any attempt to remove those services from the companies then that must be stamped out.
the NTA's job is to regulate service provision and that is what they should be focusing on. not engaging in politics over the state operators.

I don't have a problem with DB operating commercial as long as they don't interfere with regular PSO services which is what they should focusing on. Questions could also be asked whether the commercial are 1. Profitable and 2. The profits going back into PSO.

Also if you think the NTA should be a regulator do you think that when Go-Ahead come in to take 10% of DB routes they should be able to come in set their own fares, run to their own timetables and run buses in their own livery.

From 2019 DB and GA will just be customers of the NTA and not their own companies with a corporate identity etc. I don't know what will happen to commercial sevices post 2019 but they may end being sold off or the NTA may not renew their licence.

AlekSmart · 29-10-2017 10:11pm

bebeman wrote: »

It was the NTA that said FTP is now for use on nightlink, thats a DB commercial service, so the question is why are the NTA interfering in the running of nightlink?

Since 2014 the NTA in it's annual Statistical Bulletin on Commercial Bus Services in Ireland,https://www.nationaltransport.ie/publications/statistics/bulletins/, has listed only Airlink as being a Dublin Bus commercial offering.

With the NTA's intention being the replacement of Nitelink with a full 24/7 bus service,it can be seen that the introduction of FTS availability is merely getting things in order for the impending expansion of PSO Night time services.

devnull · 30-10-2017 8:04pm

Dublin Coach tours now seem to only be operating once per hour, I've only seen the vintage deckers.

They've removed the timetable from their website as well so it's not exactly obvious for would-be customers how often the service is.

devnull · 01-11-2017 10:38pm

Another 4x 2009 ex Megabus Vanhool Deckers now have joined the fleet.

Saw two of them on the Quays tonight still with Megabus.com on the front.

Guess that will see off some more of the Neoplans.

boardsuser1 · 01-11-2017 11:02pm

It’s a feast or a famine with Dublin Coach

punisher5112 · 01-11-2017 11:10pm

I seen one last night with big huge stuck on monster teeth across front and sides.

Quackster · 03-11-2017 6:50pm

On a 142 Turismo, currently broken down in Limerick! :rolleyes:

punisher5112 · 03-11-2017 9:38pm

O5 Setra blocking Tara street turn onto burgh quay earlier....

Engine cover up traffic was nightmare due to traffic trying to get around.

brokenarms · 04-11-2017 4:29pm

How do drivers report problems in DC?

Must be a very flawed system.

Quackster · 04-11-2017 5:07pm

Quackster wrote: »

On a 142 Turismo, currently broken down in Limerick! :rolleyes:

'Luckily' we limped as far as UL where we waited for the coach from Ennis due in 30 mins later and transferred onto that. If we had broken down on the way from Tralee to Limerick or if we had been traveling in the opposite direction, the delay would have been much worse.

In any case, given this is the third significant breakdown I've experienced in the limited number of times I've traveled with them, I think you'd want to be rather foolish to depend on them to make a flight from Dublin Airport!

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