social housing in upmarket estate

BBFAN · 08-01-2019 9:07pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

How many of them are now practising barristers?

Quite obsessed by barristers aren't you?

4ensic15 · 08-01-2019 9:09pm

Mod Note

Attack the post and not the poster please.

kceire

Sleeper12 · 08-01-2019 9:13pm

BBFAN wrote:

Okay, here's a link I found, the requirement was reduced from 20% to 10% but with no exemptions.

That's from 2015 & the builders were allowed to buy property down the road for the council.

I don't suppose you'd have a link to where this changed in the last few weeks?

BBFAN · 08-01-2019 9:16pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That's from 2015 & the builders were allowed to buy property down the road for the council.

I don't suppose you'd have a link to where this changed in the last few weeks?

Where in that article does it say that builders were allowed to buy property down the road?

I don't see it?

4ensic15 · 08-01-2019 9:16pm

BBFAN wrote: »

Quite obsessed by barristers aren't you?

There was an allegation made that there are barristers who grew up in council homes. Absolutely no evidence whatsoever has been put forward in support of that proposition.

Sleeper12 · 08-01-2019 9:17pm

4ensic15 wrote:

How many of them are now practising barristers?

Do you realise how stupid that question is? How am I supposed to know? I can ask you an equally stupid question: How many people from private homes are practising barristers? It's impossible to answer.

BBFAN · 08-01-2019 9:21pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

There was an allegation made that there are barristers who grew up in council homes. Absolutely no evidence whatsoever has been put forward in support of that proposition.

You're obviously NOT a barrister because that's not an allegation. :rolleyes:

Here we go · 08-01-2019 9:22pm

Ok let's be fair not everyone from social housing is a monster and yes quite a few achieve very high success including my partner against all the odds.And yes a scumbag can come from any area but with all that said there's a higher portion from social areas and there's multiple factors regarding that.To me the issue is as one person has said people are paying up to 20k extra for this is no one else shocked at this 20k per family per estate in on top of tax to me that's the elephant in the room

Here we go · 08-01-2019 9:24pm

BBFAN wrote: »

You're obviously NOT a barrister because that's not an allegation. :rolleyes:

Not a barrister buy my partner is from a council house and is a doctor and graduated top 5 % in Ucd

BBFAN · 08-01-2019 9:26pm

Here we go wrote: »

Not a barrister buy my partner is from a council house and is a doctor and graduated top 5 % in Ucd

SHOCKING. How on earth can a doctor come from a council house?

Forsenic purely picked barrister because it's a profession that you can't get into unless you're rich in the first place.

Sleeper12 · 08-01-2019 9:28pm

BBFAN wrote:

Where in that article does it say that builders were allowed to buy property down the road?

That's 2015. Builders have been doing this right into 2018. I'm in Dublin 5 and there have been tons of developments around me where not a single unit was made available for social housing. DCC have been very happy with the builder buying property further down the road. There is a development very close to me about to start overlooking the sea. 50 houses & apartments. None will be council. Builder will buy 5 or 6 properties elsewhere in the area.

The Sheiling Square has apartments on the Howth Road are worth over half a million each. Not a single one is council.

I assumed you were talking about some new law brought in where the builder could no longer buy units elsewhere for the council?

Cyrus · 08-01-2019 9:32pm

BBFAN wrote: »

How do you know that? Have you asked every single person how much they paid for their house?

How many houses in your estate and when was it built?

They are all on the ppr no need to ask

22 units built in 2016/7

And i also clarified before I purchased

I'm not making it up

Sleeper12 · 08-01-2019 9:34pm

4ensic15 wrote:

There was an allegation made that there are barristers who grew up in council homes. Absolutely no evidence whatsoever has been put forward in support of that proposition.

I used a barrister over 15 years ago who grew up in a council house.

Your comments are showing you up. You need to get out & meet people outside of your little bubble.

I'm gobsmacked that someone actually believed that someone from a council home couldn't make it as a barrister.

Genuinely don't know weather to laugh at how ludicrous such a belief is or cry for Irish society that people hold such prejudices

I'm shocked

Here we go · 08-01-2019 9:35pm

BBFAN wrote: »

SHOCKING. How on earth can a doctor come from a council house?

Forsenic purely picked barrister because it's a profession that you can't get into unless you're rich in the first place.

She's a very driven person and if she wanted to of been a barrister she would have

4ensic15 · 08-01-2019 9:42pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Do you realise how stupid that question is? How am I supposed to know? I can ask you an equally stupid question: How many people from private homes are practising barristers? It's impossible to answer.

You have claimed that there are barristers who grew up in council homes. Do you know even one?

Sleeper12 · 08-01-2019 9:47pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

You have claimed that there are barristers who grew up in council homes. Do you know even one?

Yes. I have used one over 15 years ago in Dublin & he's very proud of his humble beginnings

Just so you see how ridiculous your comments here's a link to a UK story
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/steven-woolfe-ukp-who-is-he-life-career-from-council-estate-to-barrister-to-leadership-favourite-a7348171.html

BBFAN · 08-01-2019 9:48pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

You have claimed that there are barristers who grew up in council homes. Do you know even one?

And the obsession grows. :rolleyes:

4ensic15 · 08-01-2019 9:50pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Yes. I have used one over 15 years ago in Dublin & he's very proud of his humble beginnings

Just so you see how ridiculous your comments here's a link to a UK story
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/steven-woolfe-ukp-who-is-he-life-career-from-council-estate-to-barrister-to-leadership-favourite-a7348171.html

That's in England. How do you "use a barrister". Why would any barrister tell you where he grew up? What were you charged with?

Cyrus · 08-01-2019 9:54pm

Cyrus wrote: »

They are all on the ppr no need to ask

22 units built in 2016/7

And i also clarified before I purchased

I'm not making it up

Another one for you widely reported

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/developer-not-providing-social-housing-at-ballsbridge-site-1.3335690%3fmode=amp

Sleeper12 · 08-01-2019 10:00pm

4ensic15 wrote:

That's in England. How do you "use a barrister". Why would any barrister tell you where he grew up? What were you charged with?

Why would anyone use a barrister? He told me where he grew up in lite conversation. People use solicitors & barristers for more than criminal cases. Again making assumptions about people.

Go out and meet different people. Have you ever even been in a council home? Get out of the bubble and see the world

08-01-2019 10:02pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

You have claimed that there are barristers who grew up in council homes. Do you know even one?

I know four.

4ensic15 · 08-01-2019 10:05pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Why would anyone use a barrister? He told me where he grew up in lite conversation. People use solicitors & barristers for more than criminal cases. Again making assumptions about people.

Go out and meet different people. Have you ever even been in a council home? Get out of the bubble and see the world

I asked you how you "used a barrister", not why. What evidence did this mythical barrister supply of having grown up in a council house? The Kings Inns wasn't going to let Charlie Haughey in because he was from a small house on the Northside.

Sleeper12 · 08-01-2019 10:08pm

Cyrus wrote:

Another one for you widely reported

"There is a provision, however, in the amended regulations that developers may, â€œsubject to the agreement of the planning authorityâ€, instead â€œtransfer...units on site or off siteâ€ to the local authority."

This is what all the developments around me have been doing. People on the housing list in the Raheny area keep thinking that they will get one of half a million euros properties being built but they haven't a hope in hell. DCC will always prefer a transfer deal. In some cases the developer gives more than 10 percent in transfer. Its win win. Council gets more units & developer makes more money

08-01-2019 10:16pm

Here we go wrote: »

Not a barrister buy my partner is from a council house and is a doctor and graduated top 5 % in Ucd

My top consultant doctor is proudly from a deprived background, charges minimum fee to see him compared to his peers. There are a few thankfully these days. In UK quite a few more consultants have same background.

Sleeper12 · 08-01-2019 10:16pm

4ensic15 wrote:

I asked you how you "used a barrister", not why. What evidence did this mythical barrister supply of having grown up in a council house? The Kings Inns wasn't going to let Charlie Haughey in because he was from a small house on the Northside.

How does anyone use a barrister? My solicitor engaged his services. I met with both several times. You are sounding childish now. I'm having a conversation with a barrister or anyone for that matter and you expect them to provide "evidence" no less of where they grew up? If a barrister stated in a court of law that they came from a council estate the judge wouldn't ask for "evidence"

Come on now get a grip here

bubblypop knows four barristers from council estates.

bubblypop wrote:

I know four.

BBFAN · 08-01-2019 10:22pm

4ensic is probably right in his assertion that there are very few barristers from council homes but that means **** all really in that barristers are not important contributors to society so who cares?

L1011 · 08-01-2019 10:24pm

Barristers family backgrounds are off topic

hmmm · 08-01-2019 10:26pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There's a snobbery that has crept into Irish society in the last 25 years or so. I shudder to think how bad this snobbery would now be if the crash didn't put manners on people. Some people forgot where they came from and the humble beginnings their parents or grandparents had

I think in fairness to people, there is a big difference between affordable housing for families where the parents don't earn much, and the small minority who don't work, won't work, and have contempt for those who do work.

In the past this wasn't an issue for most people - people grew up in social housing estates, and if they had any drive they got out of there and left the wasters behind to wreck the place. There are professionals in every field who grew up in social housing estates, I doubt many still live there.

Government policy in recent years has been to spread social housing around various private estates, so the problem of the troublemakers has now become very real to people in those estates. And I think it's reverse snobbery to accuse people who have put a lot of money into buying their property, and who want their kids to grow up as well as they can, of being snobs by not wanting to be part of some grand social experiment.

Another part of this is that this social housing experiment is largely going into new estates. They are not building lots of social housing in D6 or Foxrock, it's going into new build estates. Let's see Judges, media personalities, and the other various champagne socialists campaign for social housing in their neighbourhood.

Markcheese · 08-01-2019 10:33pm

LotharIngum wrote: »

Higher percentage of social and affordable houses = Higher prices for those paying for the other houses.
..

Not quite,it's true that the costs involved in any site development are passed on to purchasers, but there are a few important figures, the cost paid for the site, the cost to develop the site, and the price the developer can get...
If he can't make a profit he won't buy the site, or wont build... But the sales price will always be the max he can get...

the_syco · 09-01-2019 12:19am

Former Observer wrote: »

Astonishing number of people in here looking down on people in social housing. Well here's me looking down on you.

I find it ironic that people like yourself think that social housing is not a great place to live.

BBFAN wrote: »

Forsenic purely picked barrister because it's a profession that you can't get into unless you're rich in the first place.

Actually, it's a profession that you need your family to support you when you're not earning a wage.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There is a development very close to me about to start overlooking the sea. 50 houses & apartments. None will be council. Builder will buy 5 or 6 properties elsewhere in the area.

Why give the CC a house bought where the cost of land in an expensive location can build a house in an inexpensive location?

Former Observer · 09-01-2019 1:31am

the_syco wrote: »

I find it ironic that people like yourself think that social housing is not a great place to live

Lol wut? Like any home, social housing can be a good place, or a bad place to live depending on factors.

Wot are you really trying to say?

Bargain_Hound · 09-01-2019 11:16am

We've recently moved into a new build and knew at the time of purchase there would be a certain number of properties allocated to the local council (MCC). We have discovered that the house next door to us (Semi-D) is a social house as is a number of others on our road and other roads surrounding us. We are a little anxious at the moment as tenants are starting to move into the houses and unsure whether behaviour or noise levels may change in the estate as currently it is very quiet with no trouble. Of course not all social tenants should be associated to such behaviour and I am not painting everybody on the local authority list with the same brush but reading threads like this makes us a little more anxious, alongside other peoples first hand experiences. The best we can hope is we have no issues with our potential future neighbours.

One little niggle we have is that there is definitely a higher % allocation to Local authority than the mandatory 10% in the estate. There is several groups of 4-5 houses in a row of social houses throughout the estate. This is something we did not know at the time we purchased. One might question why does this matter but lets be honest it does when you are saving and working your b****x off to purchase such an important asset for your family.

Cyrus · 09-01-2019 11:19am

really what this allocation should be aimed at is teachers / nurses / guards / firefighters etc that are priced out of most of Dublin but are essential to the fabric and functioning of society. i dont think anyone would have an issue with that.

people not working should be accommodated in the more traditional social housing areas imo

ELM327 · 09-01-2019 11:19am

Bargain_Hound wrote: »

We've recently moved into a new build and knew at the time of purchase there would be a certain number of properties allocated to the local council (MCC). We have discovered that the house next door to us (Semi-D) is a social house as is a number of others on our road and other roads surrounding us. We are a little anxious at the moment as tenants are starting to move into the houses and unsure whether behaviour or noise levels may change in the estate as currently it is very quiet with no trouble. Of course not all social tenants should be associated to such behaviour and I am not painting everybody on the local authority list with the same brush but reading threads like this makes us a little more anxious, alongside other peoples first hand experiences. The best we can hope is we have no issues with our potential future neighbours.

One little niggle we have is that there is definitely a higher % allocation to Local authority than the mandatory 10% in the estate. This is something we did not know at the time we purchased. There is several groups of 4-5 houses in a row of social houses throughout the estate.

I can but sympathise. Surely the developer could have allocated one row/street of the estate as the social housing wing instead of putting them randomly beside private purchasers?

I intend to buy one more house, my permanent house, next year (currently own a small 3 bed in an estate in meath) and it would concern me about buying in a new estate if thise were to be commonplace. I think I am lucky that we were already looking at one off country houses.

Bargain_Hound · 09-01-2019 11:26am

Cyrus wrote: »

really what this allocation should be aimed at is teachers / nurses / guards / firefighters etc that are priced out of most of Dublin but are essential to the fabric and functioning of society. i dont think anyone would have an issue with that.

people not working should be accommodated in the more traditional social housing areas imo

I think a lot of people would agree. Without turning this thread into a political argument, what housing assistance do those mentioned above get? Very unfair system to those who work and are in that difficult income tier making in impossible to own/rent in a sustainable manner. Lets only reward and assist only those right at the bottom of the income tier or no income bracket tier (Health / Disability needs aside)

Cuddlesworth · 09-01-2019 12:30pm

ELM327 wrote: »

I can but sympathise. Surely the developer could have allocated one row/street of the estate as the social housing wing instead of putting them randomly beside private purchasers?

They are not allowed segregate like that anymore. Increases the risk of it becoming a anti-social blackspot.

ELM327 wrote: »

I intend to buy one more house, my permanent house, next year (currently own a small 3 bed in an estate in meath) and it would concern me about buying in a new estate if thise were to be commonplace. I think I am lucky that we were already looking at one off country houses.

Developers, housing agency's and the Council are buying houses everywhere, including older houses in established estates at pretty high values.

Goose76 · 09-01-2019 1:06pm

I assume there is no way to tell which houses are council houses if you are buying in an older estate?

ELM327 · 09-01-2019 1:10pm

Goose76 wrote: »

I assume there is no way to tell which houses are council houses if you are buying in an older estate?

A couple of drives around (a must if you're buying somewhere anyway) should tell you all you need to know. Especially in the later evening.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

They are not allowed segregate like that anymore. Increases the risk of it becoming a anti-social blackspot.

Developers, housing agency's and the Council are buying houses everywhere, including older houses in established estates at pretty high values.

Thankfully they are not buying (usually) one off housing.

KildareP · 09-01-2019 1:18pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

They are not allowed segregate like that anymore. Increases the risk of it becoming a anti-social blackspot.

Maybe I'm being over simplistic, but an individual who is an anti-social layabout is an anti-social layabout, no matter what, no?

If a group of 100 houses creates an anti-social blackspot, how does dispersing it out amongst an overall group of 1000 houses suddenly prevent anti-social problems arising?

Genuine question - not being facetious.

Sleeper12 · 09-01-2019 2:09pm

ELM327 wrote:

I intend to buy one more house, my permanent house, next year (currently own a small 3 bed in an estate in meath) and it would concern me about buying in a new estate if thise were to be commonplace. I think I am lucky that we were already looking at one off country houses.

Just a heads up. Councils buy random homes in older private estates. There is no guarantee that you won't live next door to a council property. I will say that council tenants aren't the monster made out by some. Even in a totally private estate your house next door could be a rental. This can be as bad or worse in some cases as council tenants

Dial Hard · 09-01-2019 2:10pm

KildareP wrote: »

Maybe I'm being over simplistic, but an individual who is an anti-social layabout is an anti-social layabout, no matter what, no?

If a group of 100 houses creates an anti-social blackspot, how does dispersing it out amongst an overall group of 1000 houses suddenly prevent anti-social problems arising?

Genuine question - not being facetious.

One house of anti-social layabouts in an otherwise hardworking/upwardly mobile neighbourhood is a potential pain for the neighbours.

100 or 1,000 houses of anti-social layabouts all concentrated in a single estate is a potential ghetto.

steddyeddy · 09-01-2019 2:36pm

fg1406 wrote: »

My parents live in an upmarket estate and the council bought about 10 houses in an estate of approximately 120. The residents association went bananas but in the end, it kinda worked out. Any families being placed are interviewed and vetted. There is no trouble whatsoever from the council dwellers and to be honest you wouldn’t know which homes were council let ones. The only trouble in the estate is caused by spoilt brat teens of parents who just throw money at them and let them do what they want.

My experience exactly. Although it's not considered politically correct to say it. It's the top private school kids I found to be the spoilt brats who made an estate I lived in back in Dublin less than classy.

Eric Cartman · 09-01-2019 2:58pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

My experience exactly. Although it's not considered politically correct to say it. It's the top private school kids I found to be the spoilt brats who made an estate I lived in back in Dublin less than classy.

How may I ask ? I doubt it was putting fireworks in letterboxes , cycling round in gangs at 2am, selling heroin or tearing up green areas with scramblers. Were their parents getting pissed in the middle of the work week and fist fighting the neighbours ?

Was Darryn the 35 year old solicitor running round with a golf club trying to batter his wife at 1am on a tuesday because he was an abusive drunk ? Because I know that happened with one of the travelling clan in a council estate near me , never heard of it happening on vico road.

Fol20 · 09-01-2019 3:00pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

My experience exactly. Although it's not considered politically correct to say it. It's the top private school kids I found to be the spoilt brats who made an estate I lived in back in Dublin less than classy.

How is this not PC, people are always attacking the wealthy as they are the 1pc and people in Ireland love to begrudge people of succeeding, providing for their kids in ways they cant afford, yet we are too pc when it comes to certain matters incl social aspects. Some people are crappy individuals be it from wealthy or poor familys however when you dont have a good upbringing and strong foundations built for you, it can lead to what we like to rant about.

ELM327 · 09-01-2019 3:02pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

One house of anti-social layabouts in an otherwise hardworking/upwardly mobile neighbourhood is a potential pain for the neighbours.

100 or 1,000 houses of anti-social layabouts all concentrated in a single estate is a potential ghetto.

But they are kept away from contributing members of society, and given something to aim for.
While at the same time receiving a free/subsidised house.

fg1406 · 09-01-2019 3:04pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

How many barristers grew up in council homes?

I know of 2. Just saying! They trained in middle of their careers by using redundancy money.

Eric Cartman · 09-01-2019 3:09pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

One house of anti-social layabouts in an otherwise hardworking/upwardly mobile neighbourhood is a potential pain for the neighbours.

100 or 1,000 houses of anti-social layabouts all concentrated in a single estate is a potential ghetto.

Its the residents themselves that turn it into a ghetto , the only advantage of having them spread out is that it doesnt become a no go area for busses at night or emergency services and might lessen the chances of them forming organised crime groups.

KildareP · 09-01-2019 3:15pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

One house of anti-social layabouts in an otherwise hardworking/upwardly mobile neighbourhood is a potential pain for the neighbours.

100 or 1,000 houses of anti-social layabouts all concentrated in a single estate is a potential ghetto.

It just seems odd.

If you group them together, it's bad, because it has the potential to end up with a group of 100 anti-social households pushed aside in an estate of 1000 and so you're not allowed do it anymore.

If you disperse the social housing, then that's fine and dandy? Despite the fact you could still end up with the same 100 anti-social households, only now they're spread evenly throughout an estate of 1000, potentially directly impacting 2 out of every 9 remaining households, in all likelihood people who purchased those homes privately? And that's deemed acceptable?

It's sending a very wrong message on many levels in my mind with the potential for some serious long term consequences - and not good ones.

boombang · 09-01-2019 3:18pm

What's so sad is that all of the problems in this thread could be simply solved by having a robust eviction policy for those who behave poorly. Plenty of people who would welcome a subsidised house. A bit of backbone would eliminate this nonsense quickly and everybody would be better off.

JPCN1 · 09-01-2019 3:26pm

boombang wrote: »

What's so sad is that all of the problems in this thread could be simply solved by having a robust eviction policy for those who behave poorly. Plenty of people who would welcome a subsidised house. A bit of backbone would eliminate this nonsense quickly and everybody would be better off.

Wholeheartedly agree. if people have a right to a house they also carry the responsibilities of same. Pay your rent, keep the place clean and respect your neighbours OR forfeit your rights to housing.

social housing in upmarket estate

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