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Snagging new property - foreman wont let me go into attic

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  • 15-06-2018 12:52pm
    #1
    xpletiv
    Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭


    Have done 3 snags now on new house, its going very well but have not been allowed into the attic, and the surveyor from first snag (did other two myself) didnt go into attic either. Is this normal these days?

    Foreman has said once I get in to take a look and if any problems, then to go up. Something to do with insurance but not sure if thats a cop out?


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    #2
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    If it's still a live construction site they probably are sticking to their H&S Plan for the site. If you don't have a safe pass they probably shouldn't even be allowing you inside the gate strictly speaking.


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    #3
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    More than likely something not kosher up there. This carry on of not allowing proper snag lists to be completed prior to closing has been found to be an unfair contract term.


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    #4
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,559 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    You 100% need access to the attic to carry out a snag.
    Contact the selling agent and developer stating that the foreman is holding up the sale due to not allowing access.


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    #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    If you don't have a safe pass they probably shouldn't even be allowing you inside the gate strictly speaking.

    Nonsense, you are of course allowed in to inspect your site. Do you think they would be doing it all the time on tv shows if there was any danger of it getting someone in trouble.


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    #6
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Jayce Damp Comic wrote: »

    Nonsense, you are of course allowed in to inspect your site.


    Can you point out the section of law that says "you are of course allowed in"


    Jayce Damp Comic wrote: »

    Do you think they would be doing it all the time on tv shows if there was any danger of it getting someone in trouble.



    Who pays if he slips and falls through the ceiling and is badly injured ?


    Construction company ?


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    #7
    witchgirl26
    Registered Users Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    OP is there a ladder up to the attic and is there some part of it around the hatch that is floored? If so, then they should be letting you up. However if there's no access via a pre-installed ladder, they may be reluctant to let you use another method to get up there to have a look. It comes down to their insurance having to cover if anything should happen to you while you're doing that.

    If you're worried something isn't right up there, try to get it in writing over email from the builders that you can call them back in after you've closed if there is a problem up there. Once you've closed the sale, it's your insurance not theirs.


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    #8
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Jayce Damp Comic wrote: »
    Nonsense, you are of course allowed in to inspect your site. Do you think they would be doing it all the time on tv shows if there was any danger of it getting someone in trouble.

    Can guarantee you that the presenters and crew on property shows will all have Safe Pass or the UK equivalent. Actually a huge % of TV crew have them anyway as often the set is considered a building site during rig-up.

    Its a complete and utter waste of a day that someone could probably pass drunk without doing the "lessons" but still.

    There's no nonsense here.


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    #9
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,019 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Can you point out the section of law that says "you are of course allowed in"
    Things are legal by default. The onus is on you to quote a law that says it's not. If legality is the issue, which it isn't.


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    #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    L1011 wrote: »
    Can guarantee you that the presenters and crew on property shows will all have Safe Pass or the UK equivalent. Actually a huge % of TV crew have them anyway as often the set is considered a building site during rig-up.

    Its a complete and utter waste of a day that someone could probably pass drunk without doing the "lessons" but still.

    There's no nonsense here.

    I meant the actual property owners who are onsite loads on the tv shows. Anyway I was only using that as an example, I worked on building sites without a safe pass (I did get it after a while but was a while working on them without it) never mind visit sites hence why I call it nonsense when someone says you shouldn't be inside the gate.


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    #11
    witchgirl26
    Registered Users Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    Lumen wrote: »
    Things are legal by default. The onus is on you to quote a law that says it's not. If legality is the issue, which it isn't.

    But until you close the sale you don't own the site or property so therefore are not necessarily entitled to anything and could be considered trespassing.


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    #12
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,732 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Surveyor's will even only offer to have a glance view into Attics these days waist look up into it.


    Insurance had gone mad tbh. So the foreman is most likely following rules.


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    #13
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,296 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Call the foreman's bluff and give him your phone. Tell him to record full 360 of the attic in all directions.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #14
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    I was checking a potential fixer upper with a builder friend. He brought his own ladder to inspect attic area as did another viewer and he said he'd always bring his own ladder.

    So maybe there's something in the insurance excuse and therefore offer to bring your own ladder and therefore its your issue if you fall.


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    #15
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,559 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    The attic must be inspected during a snag to ensure :

    Safe access to the water tank
    Insulation continuity
    Air tightness layer of in place
    Ventilation provisions
    Location of any plant (heat recovery, ventilation etc)
    Amongst others


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    #16
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    kceire wrote: »
    The attic must be inspected during a snag to ensure :

    Safe access to the water tank
    Insulation continuity
    Air tightness layer of in place
    Ventilation provisions
    Location of any plant (heat recovery, ventilation etc)
    Amongst others

    Fire protection is probably the most important. I was with a colleague during the week who was inspecting an attic for BCAR compliance. We were with the architect. The builders did the fire proofing detail wrong. It was wrong on not just one house but all 30! A fire would have taken out a terrace.

    I've be very cautious if some one said I couldnt see something. I'd be very cautious of doing it yourself also. If something goes wrong cant sue yourself! Some things may not be obvious to a non-professional.


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    #17
    Munurty
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Munurty


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Can you point out the section of law that says "you are of course allowed in"







    Who pays if he slips and falls through the ceiling and is badly injured ?


    Construction company ?

    The HSA say the client does not need a safe pass.

    http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Your_Industry/Construction/Construction_FAQ's/Safe_Pass/#wn


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    #18
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Munurty wrote: »
    The HSA say the client does not need a safe pass.

    http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Your_Industry/Construction/Construction_FAQ's/Safe_Pass/#wn

    I think one can be insisted on one. I have one and most sites (regardless if I'm on the client side or other side) I'm required to present it during induction.
    It should be noted that the regulations relate to minimum requirements and a Client, PSCS or a Contractor may require that all personnel entering their construction site have Safe Pass.


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    #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    godtabh wrote: »
    I think one can be insisted on one. I have one and most sites (regardless if I'm on the client side or other side) I'm required to present it during induction.

    If the contractor is working for me and wouldn't let me on my own site they would be given two fingers, if they attempted to physically stop me entering (which they would have to do) id show them the door.


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    #20
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Jayce Damp Comic wrote: »
    If the contractor is working for me and wouldn't let me on my own site they would be given two fingers, if they still insisted on stopping me id show them the door.

    Contractor isn't working for you. He is covering his ass and I wouldnt blame him


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    #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    godtabh wrote: »
    Contractor isn't working for you. He is covering his ass and I wouldnt blame him

    If I'm having a house built he is working for me. There are many larger reasons such as cost as to why I would go the direct labour route and manage the build myself rather than get a contractor but avoiding this sort of crap is certainly another thing to add to the list.

    Regardless a contractor or otherwise cannot stop you entering your own property.


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    #22
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Jayce Damp Comic wrote: »
    If I'm having a house built he is working for me. There are many larger reasons such as cost as to why I would go the direct labour route and manage the build myself rather than get a contractor but avoiding this sort of crap is certainly another thing to add to the list.

    In the OP post I've read it as not direct labour route. That is different but I dont think that is what we are talking about


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    #23
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,392 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Could you employ someone to do it?


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    #24
    tradesman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 390 ✭✭tradesman


    xpletiv wrote: »
    Have done 3 snags now on new house, its going very well but have not been allowed into the attic, and the surveyor from first snag (did other two myself) didnt go into attic either. Is this normal these days?

    Foreman has said once I get in to take a look and if any problems, then to go up. Something to do with insurance but not sure if thats a cop out?
    You need to get a snagger to snag your engineer! I have heard this a few times recentlyfrom potential customers of mine (Snag lists) that snag list surveyors are themselves saying they do not go into the attics. Whats the point of them doing a list if they are only going to do half a job? Sure isn't that what the purpose of a snag list inspection is - checking on things that are half done?


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    #25
    REFLINE1
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭REFLINE1


    godtabh wrote: »
    Fire protection is probably the most important. I was with a colleague during the week who was inspecting an attic for BCAR compliance. We were with the architect. The builders did the fire proofing detail wrong. It was wrong on not just one house but all 30! A fire would have taken out a terrace.

    I've be very cautious if some one said I couldnt see something. I'd be very cautious of doing it yourself also. If something goes wrong cant sue yourself! Some things may not be obvious to a non-professional.

    Interested as to what the detail was that was so poorly carried out that a fire would have spread through the terrace? Would it have been obvious to a snagger has it not been identified, as they would not have the design details available to them?


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