DAB News

More Music · 17-08-2017 9:25pm #1

Big news on the way.

Ssshh.

Radio_Fan_738 · 17-08-2017 9:36pm

RTE to close down their Dab network ?

dave4565 · 18-08-2017 8:51am

Good when they had not got the sense to put one or two stations out NATIONWIDE instead to put FIVE stations in dublin cork and limerick only shows their priorities more interested to employ as many hangers on as they can rather than improving the national output so what will the poor children in D4 do for classical music now

L1011 · 18-08-2017 9:00am

dave4565 wrote: »

Good when they had not got the sense to put one or two stations out NATIONWIDE instead to put FIVE stations in dublin cork and limerick only shows their priorities more interested to employ as many hangers on as they can rather than improving the national output so what will the poor children in D4 do for classical music now

There is one multiplex. It doesn't get cheaper to build out or run when you reduce the stations.

Ursus Horribilis · 18-08-2017 9:20am

A couple of weeks ago someone posted this here http://radiotoday.ie/2017/06/dab-radio-multiplex-to-close-as-fm-prospers/

It's a shame there was never the money or the commitment to roll it out nationwide. Seeing as its coverage is so limited, I can see them just axing it. Perhaps taking RTE Gold, 2XM and the others with it...

ThisRegard · 18-08-2017 9:31am

RTE Gold and 2XM would be a great loss if they were to disappear from DAB.

Radio_Fan_738 · 18-08-2017 9:39am

ThisRegard wrote: »

RTE Gold and 2XM would be a great loss if they were to disappear from DAB.

Perhaps the 10 people who listen could purchase an internet radio ?

ThisRegard · 18-08-2017 9:59am

Radio_Fan_738 wrote: »

Perhaps the 10 people who listen could purchase an internet radio ?

Sure you can buy 1 for each of them.

dave4565 · 18-08-2017 10:10am

L1011 wrote: »

There is one multiplex. It doesn't get cheaper to build out or run when you reduce the stations.

it would be cheaper when you have less staff i understand about the multiplexer but why any NATIONAL radio station thinks it's more important to have large number of stations than COVERAGE there is something wrong with the management

Expunge · 18-08-2017 10:26am

More Music wrote: »

Big news on the way.

Ssshh.

Does this have to do with Rick O Shea and Will not wanted on 2fm but needing gigs to justify what they are being paid?

Let me guess... two daily RTÉ Gold shows for them so.

They can work alongside all the unpaid volunteers who do programmes on the RTÉ digital stations in the hope of getting paid gigs in the future.

Will the RTE unions continue to look the other way?

tv3tg4 · 18-08-2017 7:23pm

“From June 30th, our trial will conclude when our ComReg trial licence expire

Will dab continue?

Will additional stations be added?

More Music · 24-09-2017 11:48am

Nearly all radio stations under the IBI umbrella along with RTE stations will be available on a smallscale DAB minimux trial in Dublin very soon.

end of the road · 24-09-2017 12:54pm

More Music wrote: »

Nearly all radio stations under the IBI umbrella along with RTE stations will be available on a smallscale DAB minimux trial in Dublin very soon.

that is certainly great news.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch · 24-09-2017 8:44pm

great!

ghostdancer · 24-09-2017 9:47pm

Radio_Fan_738 wrote: »

Perhaps the 10 people who listen could purchase an internet radio ?

not really much use for those of us who listen to either of them in the car...

Joe Duffy. · 26-09-2017 1:48am

I don't understand the point of more "trials" I mean it's not sending a man to mars, we know the technology works. Also wouldn't it be better if such trials were tried in a part of the country with limited fm choice and poor internet so that the inhabitants could have some radio diversity ?

end of the road · 26-09-2017 2:39am

Joe Duffy. wrote: »

I don't understand the point of more "trials" I mean it's not sending a man to mars, we know the technology works. Also wouldn't it be better if such trials were tried in a part of the country with limited fm choice and poor internet so that the inhabitants could have some radio diversity ?

the new trials are minny muxes rather then normal muxes. i presume using the same tech as trialed in the uk minny muxes. while we know from the uk experiments that the tech works, it does have to be trialed here again anyway, so that local conditions and other variables can be looked at in terms of proving the concept. i would agree though that maybe trialing this concept outside dublin would be a good idea. but i presume (and i'm just guessing) it comes down to dublin having the greatist chance of listenership due to it's population and the fact that dab has existed there for years. mind you, the minny muxes as far as i know don't require huge infrastructure like ordinary muxes so can be set up anywhere, easily (i'm definitely open to correction on that)

The Cush · 26-09-2017 3:43am

end of the road wrote: »

mind you, the minny muxes as far as i know don't require huge infrastructure like ordinary muxes so can be set up anywhere, easily (i'm definitely open to correction on that)

for example - Raspberry Pi Generates DAB+ Multiplex Stream (small scale DAB broadcasting project in Eindhoven, the Netherlands)

L1011 · 26-09-2017 4:20pm

A single transmitter DAB installation does not require much kit these days

The second you go to having a second transmitter in a single frequency network you need proper time syncing which is still not cheap or easy and has increased running costs.

The main advantage of DAB in spectrum efficiency is SFN - the ability to give ~10 stations nationwide coverage for about 2Mhz when you need about the same for 1 FM station. Without that its effectively just opening up more spectrum which we unfortunately can't do with FM.

The Cush · 26-09-2017 4:33pm

L1011 wrote: »

The main advantage of DAB in spectrum efficiency is SFN - the ability to give ~10 stations nationwide coverage for about 2Mhz when you need about the same for 1 FM station. Without that its effectively just opening up more spectrum which we unfortunately can't do with FM.

This is the current breakdown of DAB+ services currently carried on the Niocast small-scale mux in Manchester, 27 services with RTÉ Radio to come, efficiency over quality?

Red represents DAB, Blue represents DAB+

StreetLight · 29-09-2017 10:07pm

I'm picking up two newly available multiplexes in the Dublin area. Only about half of the stations are carrying audio, asterisked below. Quality and signal strength vary pretty wildly.

BLOCK 5A :

01. RTE R.1
02. RTE 2FM
03. RTE Lyric
04. RTE RnaG
05. RTE Gold
06. RTE R.1 Extra
07. RTE Pulse
08. RTE 2XM
09. RTE Jr.
10. Beat
11. C103 *
12. Clare FM *
13. 4FM
14. Cork's 96 *
15. 98FM
16. ECFM
17. FM104
18. GBFM *
19. KCLR *
20. KFM
21. Live 95 *
22. Highland *
23. M103 *
24. 1 test

BLOCK 5B :

01. I-radio
02. LMFM *
03. MW Radio *
04. Newstalk *
05. N-Sound *
06. Ocean FM *
07. Q102
08. R.Kerry
09. R.Nova
10. Red FM *
11. S'side FM *
12. SE Radio *
13. Spin 1038 *
14. Spin SW
15. Spirit
16. Sunshine
17. Tipp FM *
18. Today FM
19. WLR FM *
20. R. Fáilte *
21. R na Life
22. Rí Rá *
23. 2 test

The Cush · 29-09-2017 11:35pm

StreetLight wrote: »

I'm picking up two newly available multiplexes in the Dublin area. Only about half of the stations are carrying audio, asterisked below. Quality and signal strength vary pretty wildly.

BLOCK 5A :

BLOCK 5B :

All DAB+ I presume?

StreetLight · 30-09-2017 9:14am

The Cush wrote: »

All DAB+ I presume?

I would presume so myself, but I cannot confirm. They are accessible on my car DAB/DAB+ radio, but the level is so low, I cannot pick them up on my indoor DAB/DAB+ hifi.

The current quality of some of the audio is akin to listening to a Medium Wave transmission.

jando11 · 30-09-2017 9:29am

Picking them up in Mt Saint Annes in Clonskeagh..

Don't know where you are getting you medium wave assesment from ,.. they all appear to be in 48k HE-aac (DAB+). The quality is perfectly fine to my untrained ear. I will say though that the DAB+ stations sound a hell of alot better than the RTÉ DAB services.

Untrained ear alert though.

The Cush · 30-09-2017 10:18am

jando11 wrote: »

Don't know where you are getting you medium wave assesment from ,.. they all appear to be in 48k HE-aac (DAB+). The quality is perfectly fine to my untrained ear. I will say though that the DAB+ stations sound a hell of alot better than the RTÉ DAB services.

I listen to the RTÉ DAB mux here in Limerick which carries a number of stations in 48kbps/64kbps DAB+ which sound perfectly fine to me too.

StreetLight · 30-09-2017 10:42am

Please note: I said "some of the audio".

The currently available DAB+ services are perfectly acceptable, but there is definitely a discernible variance in the quality of some of the audio. This may be due to the type of feed being received.

Claude Wilton · 30-09-2017 10:53am

I have a great selection on DAB. In Donegal near the border. Certainly not from any of the 2RN tx.

Irish DAB has been somewhere on the scale between Neither Fish Nor Flesh and and a Dog's Breakfast. Are 2RN still sticking with the urban TXs? If so, why bother with it? It is either a viable transmission system or it isn't.

Was there any truth in the suggestion that the BBC had offered its stations free of charge to RTÉNL for Irish DAB? If they had taken it up, there was a golden opportunity for RTÉ Radio to be carried as a reciprocal in GB and NI, but the powers that be in Montrose weren't thinking ahead, and much as it pains the more Nationally-minded, having 5 Live on Irish DAB would have driven uptake.

But, to coin a phrase, we are where we are. Nowhere much further than when 'tests' started in 2006.

Joe Duffy. · 30-09-2017 12:05pm

Claude Wilton wrote: »

I have a great selection on DAB. In Donegal near the border. Certainly not from any of the 2RN tx.

Irish DAB has been somewhere on the scale between Neither Fish Nor Flesh and and a Dog's Breakfast. Are 2RN still sticking with the urban TXs? If so, why bother with it? It is either a viable transmission system or it isn't.

Was there any truth in the suggestion that the BBC had offered its stations free of charge to RTÉNL for Irish DAB? If they had taken it up, there was a golden opportunity for RTÉ Radio to be carried as a reciprocal in GB and NI, but the powers that be in Montrose weren't thinking ahead, and much as it pains the more Nationally-minded, having 5 Live on Irish DAB would have driven uptake.

But, to coin a phrase, we are where we are. Nowhere much further than when 'tests' started in 2006.

That's a bit like the story that rte turned down Fr Ted

StreetLight · 30-09-2017 2:19pm

The network service labels are displaying Mimimux 1 on Block 5A and Minimux 2 on 5B. Both still running on very low power at the moment.

Antenna · 30-09-2017 2:58pm

StreetLight wrote: »

The network service labels are displaying Mimimux 1 on Block 5A and Minimux 2 on 5B. Both still running on very low power at the moment.

Would you reckon it is currently being transmitted from RTE Donnybrook rather than Threerock?

Claude Wilton wrote: »

Was there any truth in the suggestion that the BBC had offered its stations free of charge to RTÉNL for Irish DAB? If they had taken it up, there was a golden opportunity for RTÉ Radio to be carried as a reciprocal in GB and NI, .

Where was that suggestion?
And why would they (the BBC) ?? unless they could get a bit of the TV licence fee from the republic and/or insert advertising.

One non-BBC service from across the border is listed however, the Irish language R. Fáilte from Belfast

Claude Wilton · 30-09-2017 6:44pm

Antenna wrote: »

Would you reckon it is currently being transmitted from RTE Donnybrook rather than Threerock?

Where was that suggestion?
And why would they (the BBC) ?? unless they could get a bit of the TV licence fee from the republic and/or insert advertising.

One non-BBC service from across the border is listed however, the Irish language R. Fáilte from Belfast

Like I said, I was wondering was there any truth in that rumour. It could have mutated from the time that the BBC gave BBC Three and Four to RTÉNL free or at a very reduced rate for the testing phase of DTT.

dxhound2005 · 30-09-2017 8:01pm

Claude Wilton wrote: »

I have a great selection on DAB. In Donegal near the border. Certainly not from any of the 2RN tx.

Irish DAB has been somewhere on the scale between Neither Fish Nor Flesh and and a Dog's Breakfast. Are 2RN still sticking with the urban TXs? If so, why bother with it? It is either a viable transmission system or it isn't.

Was there any truth in the suggestion that the BBC had offered its stations free of charge to RTÉNL for Irish DAB? If they had taken it up, there was a golden opportunity for RTÉ Radio to be carried as a reciprocal in GB and NI, but the powers that be in Montrose weren't thinking ahead, and much as it pains the more Nationally-minded, having 5 Live on Irish DAB would have driven uptake.

But, to coin a phrase, we are where we are. Nowhere much further than when 'tests' started in 2006.

I am also near the border and I get nothing from the North. DAB in the North is not complete. Large areas in Armagh and Down and elsewhere get nothing. And the Camlough DAB transmitter has only a small number of stations compared to say Limavady. So they probably need to work on that before worrying about us.

The transmitters in the South probably cover an area bigger than Northern Ireland, so that makes them more than what could be called urban.

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/dab/Limavady

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/dab/Camlough

The Cush · 30-09-2017 10:19pm

Claude Wilton wrote: »

Was there any truth in the suggestion that the BBC had offered its stations free of charge to RTÉNL for Irish DAB? If they had taken it up, there was a golden opportunity for RTÉ Radio to be carried as a reciprocal in GB and NI, but the powers that be in Montrose weren't thinking ahead, and much as it pains the more Nationally-minded, having 5 Live on Irish DAB would have driven uptake.

Wishful thinking more like, no spare capacity on the RTÉ licensed mux for the BBC services. Any such service would require BAI approval and a Comreg spectrum licence. In reverse no spare national capacity on the UK national muxes.

Antenna wrote: »

Would you reckon it is currently being transmitted from RTE Donnybrook rather than Threerock?

Could it be Kippure, it has been off-air all week?
Is the DAB Ireland Mux 1 still transmitting?

StreetLight · 30-09-2017 11:10pm

Kippure's DAB Mux 1 is still going strong.

In fact, even though Aertel had it listed as having been off the air all week, I never experienced any outages whenever I was tuned into it.

The Cush · 30-09-2017 11:41pm

StreetLight wrote: »

Kippure's DAB Mux 1 is still going strong.

In fact, even though Aertel had it listed as having been off the air all week, I never experienced any outages whenever I was tuned into it.

In the other thread posters mentioned outages from Kippure over previous weeks

The Cush · 01-10-2017 11:36pm

Update on the small-scale DAB+ mini-muxes

http://www.wohnort.org/DAB/

October 1st

Two minimuxes have popped up in Dublin on Blocks 5A and 5B. Both are being broadcast with 200w each from Donnybrook. 24 DAB+ services are on Block 5A and 23 on Block 5B, though not all have audio currently. All nine RTÉ services plus all 36 commercial stations across Ireland are expected to be on the two muxes. The multiplexes have been implemented by Viamux, a new company associated with the Manchester minimux operator Niocast.

http://www.viamux.com/
http://www.viamux.com/ireland.html

Viamux provided the Independent Broadcasters of Ireland (IBI) and the Irish state broadcaster RTÉ with an innovative DAB+ radio network, broadcasting every station on the Irish Radioplayer. Located in Dublin, the system employs two DAB+ multiplexes which carry all 36 of Ireland’s commercial radio stations along with RTɒs nine services. The network also switches listeners seamlessly between the Irish Radioplayer app and free-to-air DAB+.

Viamux and Niocast, the Manchester small-scale mini-mux licencee, are both Niocom Group companies.
RTÉ Radio is to be carried on the Manchester mux once the necessary regulatory issues are sorted.

Niocast Manchester mini-mux

Red represents DAB, Blue represents DAB+

Joe Duffy. · 02-10-2017 12:30am

So what is the point of this trial? Is the goal to have all Irish radio stations available officially on dab+ some day?

end of the road · 02-10-2017 2:42am

Joe Duffy. wrote: »

So what is the point of this trial? Is the goal to have all Irish radio stations available officially on dab+ some day?

i assume so. + to test a minny-mux in irish conditions.

Expunge · 02-10-2017 10:21am

Was it not possible for RTE or the IBI to engage an Irish company such as Total Broadcast to do this work?
Does this mean license fee money going outside of the State for this or not?

jando11 · 02-10-2017 10:38am

Expunge wrote: »

Was it not possible for RTE or the IBI to engage an Irish company such as Total Broadcast to do this work?
Does this mean license fee money going outside of the State for this or not?

It’s possible that the expertise in this relatively new area is not here domestically. DAB has been around for donkeys years but this small scale Linux stuff is new.. I was trying to get some info on it. It seems like it’s mostly software based now and not hardware based.
Linux... eurgh.. tried learning it years ago and failed miserably..
Ruined by windows I am

The Cush · 03-10-2017 12:17am

https://radiotoday.co.uk/2017/10/doing-the-dab-event-heads-for-belfast-next/

Doing the DAB: Belfast will be part of the Belfast Media Festival on 17th November, with speakers confirmed so far including people from the BBC and commercial radio operators in Northern Ireland.

On the list at the time of writing are:
– Local broadcaster John Rosborough
– Stuart Robinson and Mark Mahaffy from Bauer Radio, Northern Ireland
– Michael Tumelty from BBC Northern Ireland
– Larry Deeney from BBC Radio Foyle
– Jimmy Buckland and Peter McVerry from Wireless Group
– JP Coakley from RTÉ
– Bryan Coombes from Arqiva
– Ford Ennals from DRUK

Additionally, the Republic of Ireland’s public service broadcaster, RTÉ, will talk about future plans for digital radio.

The Cush · 03-10-2017 12:39am

Updated channel list, audio is 48 kbit/s DAB+ Stereo

http://www.wohnort.org/DAB/ireland.html#tests

Dublin 1
DAB+ Band III
Block 5A: 174.928 MHz
Allotment:
Operator: RTÉ
Sites: Donnybrook (200w)
On-Air: September 2017

RTE Radio 1
RTE 2FM
RTE Lyric
RTE RnaG
RTE Gold
RTE Radio 1Extra
RTE Pulse
RTE 2XM
RTE Jr Radio
Beat 102103
C103 281A
Clare fm
Classic Hits 4fm
Cork's 96fm
Dublin's 98fm
East Coast FM
Dublins FM104
Galway Bay FM
KCLR
Kfm
Limerick Live 95
Highland Radio
Midlands 103

Dublin 2
DAB+ Band III
Block 5B: 176.640 MHz
Allotment:
Operator: RTÉ
Sites: Donnybrook (200w)
On-Air: September 2017

iRadio
LMFM
MidWest Radio
Newstalk
Northern Sound
Ocean FM
Dublin's Q102
Radio Kerry
Radio Nova
Cork's Red FM
Shannonside FM
South East Radio
Spin 1038 2834
Spin South West
Spirit Radio
Sunshine 106.8
Tipp FM
Today FM
WLR fm
Raidio Failte
Raidio na Life
Raidio Ri Ra

s3rtvdbwfj81ch · 03-10-2017 7:56am

Are those available yet?

I can see both blocks on my radio and I can listen to the RTE output, but not really sure how to get the other stations.

JDxtra · 03-10-2017 10:19am

I can only assume that they are capturing the online streams for the other commercial stations, and re-encoding them for the DAB mux. I can't imagine that all the commercial operators have an independent link back to RTE (especially for a trial), so this is probably the only way they can do it.

Probably doesn't matter much if they are being relayed on the MUX at only 48 kbit/s. DAB+ uses HE-AAC v2 - which is a great codec, but at 48 kbit/s you are going to get some compression artifacts.

The Cush · 03-10-2017 1:48pm

JDxtra wrote: »

I can only assume that they are capturing the online streams for the other commercial stations, and re-encoding them for the DAB mux. I can't imagine that all the commercial operators have an independent link back to RTE (especially for a trial), so this is probably the only way they can do it.

According to the Viamux site there are 2 options

Viamux DAB in a Box

We provide all your head-end equipment (antenna, amplifier, SDR and multiplex server) and install it at the transmission site. A DAB/DAB+ encoder is included for each of your client radio station locations so that audio is encoded at source to maintain the highest quality. Using the internet as the contribution circuit for encoded audio ensures that your ongoing operating costs are kept to a minimum.

Viamux DAB in the Cloud

Your multiplex server and DAB/DAB+ encoders are co-located in our data centre. From here the 'blended' multiplexed stream is sent directly to your 'head-end' equipment at the transmission site using a virtual private network. Using the cloud ensures that your audio encoders and multiplex server benefits from our 24-hour system monitoring and on-site technical support.

Doodah7 · 03-10-2017 2:31pm

Can we listen to these stations yet? I retuned my car DAB radio in Liffey Valley earlier and all that came up were the RTE stations on DAB.

Alun · 03-10-2017 2:33pm

Doodah7 wrote: »

Can we listen to these stations yet? I retuned my car DAB radio in Liffey Valley earlier and all that came up were the RTE stations on DAB.

Surely at only 200W Tx power you'd probably have to be parked in the RTE car park to pick them up?

Joe Duffy. · 03-10-2017 2:33pm

Doodah7 wrote: »

Can we listen to these stations yet? I retuned my car DAB radio in Liffey Valley earlier and all that came up were the RTE stations on DAB.

But does your car radio have dab+?

The Cush · 03-10-2017 2:41pm

Low power transmission (200 W) from an antenna mounted on the side of a building in Donnybrook compared to hi-tower hi-power sites like Three Rock (14 kW) and Kippure (15 kW), Comreg Test & Trial licence most likely.

SimonMaher · 03-10-2017 3:45pm

The Cush wrote: »

Low power transmission (200 W) from an antenna mounted on the side of a building in Donnybrook compared to hi-tower hi-power sites like Three Rock (14 kW) and Kippure (15 kW), Comreg Test & Trial licence most likely.

Even at 200w the coverage should be half decent from Donnybrook but it's really struggling. Even on a test licence they should at least be able to use the main tower with an aerial up top to see what urban coverage can be achieved at that power level.

The previous DB trial was using decent power from a significant height so even a minimux should make the best of its physical location. The Manchester minimux uses the Manchester One tower block doesn't it?

Simon

ITV2 · 03-10-2017 3:45pm

I picked them up in Donnybrook this morning on a €20 radio from Aldi..

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