Budgie ethics advice please

jamas · 13-01-2011 11:17am #1

Hi. My daughter (11) wants to get a budgie, and we are trying to see what is the best place to get one. Are there "rescue" budgies, like other animals? Are there ethical issues, around wild caught / imported vs locally bred ones as there are with other non native animals? Is the local pet shop the best place to buy one? Should we get one or two? She is planning to spend a good bit of time with it, and hoping to teach it to talk etc. However, realistically we are out between 9-5 weekdays. All advice gratefully recieved. Thanks

mymo · 13-01-2011 12:06pm

I personally wouldn't go to a pet shop, there are breeders and shows for budgies.
I would try to find out about a breeder or a show coming up and go along and ask questions, find out about the care direct from breeders, you'll get a feel yourself for someone who does it right.

Here's a site that might give some info
http://www.budgerigars.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?23189-Budgerigar-Society-of-Ireland-Show-Winners

Knine · 13-01-2011 12:16pm

Hya

I keep budgies as pets. They make excellent pets. Once tame they are extremely curious and sociable and love playing with their toys and human interaction. However they are very noisy at times and also leave a mess with their feathers and food being scattered everywhere. I have a Hagen Vision cage which helps prevent some of this mess landing on the floor.

The best place to get a budgie is off a breeder but these can be hard to find. You can also find quality budgies in some of the better petshops as breeders sell their surplus here. It is very important that you buy a baby budgie, one that is younger than 3 months old. Adult budgies are very hard to finger tame. You can recognise a baby budgie as it will (depending on colour) have bars of darker colour extending down its face to its cere. Its eye will also be black rather than having a white ring iris on it. Other signs are some dark colour on its beak.

I would suggest you first get one budgie, get it finger tame by encouraging it to hop onto your finger and feed it with treats such as fruit and veg. Then when you have this one tame, get a second bird and tame this one too. Solitary birds do tend to imitate sounds or voices much better than a pair but due to the fact you are out most of the day, it would be cruel to get just one bird. Also it is great to watch them interacting with each other.

I prefer male budgies as they are friendly, less likely to nip and dont have the high pitched screech of the females. Male or Cock budgies have blue ceres (or pink in certain colour varieties such as recessive pieds) and females or Hens have brown ceres but an out of breeding condition female can also have a bluish cere. Baby budgies have a pinkish cere but you can still tell the females as they will have some whiteish colour around their nostril. The cere is the fleshy area above their beaks. If you get one of each sex they will not breed if you don't place a nest box in with them. 2 male budgies will live happily together.

I buy as large a cage as I can afford and then replace all the plastic perches with natural wood perches which can be got from http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/birds/cage_accessories/perches/14421

Best of luck with your search!

tallaght01 · 13-01-2011 3:28pm

Is it really right to keep a bird in a cage???

get a bird feeder and a bird table for your garden, and let her see birds in the wild, like they're supposed to be.

carraghsgem · 13-01-2011 3:36pm

i would also suggest keeping the radio on during the day while your out, and a mirror in its cage or next to its cage.

i would suggest buying her some books before she gets the budgie and the largest cage you can afford, a cockatiel cage is ideal, wood perches are best but make sure they are from a fruit or nut tree (hazel is easy to find)
toys are a must and also grit. millet is a popular treat and there are books on how to train parakeets.

username123 · 13-01-2011 4:41pm

tallaght01 wrote: »

Is it really right to keep a bird in a cage???

get a bird feeder and a bird table for your garden, and let her see birds in the wild, like they're supposed to be.

+1.

My MIL has a budgie in a cage and the poor thing just sits there listlessly - for years now. She doesnt really take it out much.

I just dont agree with caging any animals, but especially birds - its just extremely cruel if they cant get out and fly in the open air or a very large aviary.

I had a rabbit in a hutch myself as a child and although I took her out regularly I was actually glad when the animal passed on as I became more and more disgusted at the fact that the poor creature was confined to a small area for extended periods of time.

tribalwings · 13-01-2011 4:47pm

Well I have a budgie in a cage, must be about 6yrs old now. He gets out to fly around the kitchen every couple of days. He flies from light to light and when he's ready to go back into his cage, he lands on the architrave waiting to jump on my hand

Whispered · 13-01-2011 4:52pm

My sister has a budgie and he's free to fly around the room, with his cage usually open. He goes in and out of his cage and happily sits in there talking away even with the door open. I'd say it's no worse than keeping other pets, but I do thing it's important to allow them a lot of outside the cage time. I saw playgrounds you can get for them etc.

OP fair play for doing this type of research. I would have never thought of it if I was buying a bird.

ppink · 13-01-2011 5:15pm

I really would like someone to tell me why it is ok to keep a bird in a cage.....and i am not being smart saying that! I just have no other words to use. Even letting them fly in a room, when their natural habitat is so vast, seems harsh to me..is it?.
I love birds, dont get me wrong, and I have minded my family members birds regularly...and for prolonged periods. I just cant get my head around taking them from the sky. I see all "my" little birds feeding outside my window and I feel so sorry for all the ones in cages in the pet shop.
sorry this is off topic. OP I am glad you are researching before you get you new pet, like whispered said i never would ahve thought of researching for a bird either.

Whispered · 13-01-2011 5:36pm

It's funny ppink, I always did feel like that about birds, but seeing oscar (my sisters fella) and how happy he is with his life, I've sort of come around to thinking that with correct stimulation they can be perfectly happy as pets. Much like a high energy dog I suppose, if you can stimulate them and allow them exercise their natural instincts then they can be perfectly happy house pets. Although in both cases there is probably more work involved than I'd have thought

.

Actually, I feel sorry for my mothers 12 year old gold fish in his bowl all alone, all his life (well except for the other fish that he ate a few years ago:eek:).

jamas · 13-01-2011 10:29pm

Thanks for all the info .. and debate.;) We will try and find some breeders locally. We are in Tipperary by the way

Irishchick · 27-01-2011 12:55pm

Skip the petshop and go to the breeders as others have said.

Try this forum www.parrots.ie There are some nice people on their and youll find a good budgie breeder who will hand rear one.

Hand reared budgies make excellent pets and are great for someone who has nor previous experience with birds. Buy yourself a book now and start reading about care and nutrition ( too man people have birds on a junk food seed diet)

A hand reared one will be a great companion and need spend very little time in the cage if thats what you want. My African Grey only goes in her cage to eat and sleep. She spend the rest of her time with us ot playing with toys on her playstand.

If you have any questions feel free to message me.

dancingqueen · 27-01-2011 5:08pm

Research is key in getting a bird - just be prepared for a wait if you want a hand reared budgie. It's not easy to get them, because they are bought so cheaply; some breeders just don't bother.

I have had budgies and a parrot in recent years. I understand people's concerns in "taking a bird from the sky" but these birds are bred from generations of captive birds and they know nothing else. It isn't as though you are capturing a robin, and putting him into a cage.
A Hyacinth Macaw for example, would be almost extinct (still is almost extinct in fact) if it wasn't for breeders.

The fact that a bird has been hand reared, also means that the bird sees a human as his parent, and therefore will see a human as his lifelong mate. This is what makes a bird such a fantastic pet to bond with.

They take a lot of cleaning up after (dust, feathers and seeds) and getting a young nestling would mean you can have the best chances of taming a bird.. A lot of birds in shops are said to be "hand reared" but if you went near it, it would fly into the corner of the cage.

Try contacting Eddie Drew in Kilmacanogue, Copsewood Aviaries.. he might know of people hand rearing budgies.

Hope it works out for her - great for a child to have a sense of responsibilty. I totally believe in children having pets.

Feargal as Luimneach · 27-01-2011 11:45pm

dancingqueen wrote: »

I have had budgies and a parrot in recent years. I understand people's concerns in "taking a bird from the sky" but these birds are bred from generations of captive birds and they know nothing else. It isn't as though you are capturing a robin, and putting him into a cage.
A Hyacinth Macaw for example, would be almost extinct (still is almost extinct in fact) if it wasn't for breeders.

The Hyacinth Macaw is an endangered species due to overcollection for the cage bird trade and habitat loss. Alot of parrot species are endangered because of collection for the cage trade:mad:

username123 · 28-01-2011 9:37pm

dancingqueen wrote: »

I understand people's concerns in "taking a bird from the sky" but these birds are bred from generations of captive birds and they know nothing else. It isn't as though you are capturing a robin, and putting him into a cage.

Just because his anscestors were kept in a confined space is no justfication for keeping a living creature in a cage that roughly equates to a person my size being kept in a room the size of my bathroom.

Whispered · 28-01-2011 11:41pm

Don't most people allow their birds be out of the cage most of the time? (Much like a dog in a crate?) I only know two budgie owners and both budgies spend a lot of time in the room with people. One of them you can't eat an apple in the room with him or he'll sit on your shoulder and take a peck as you bring it to your mouth.

The other one will sit on your neck, seemingly innocently, until you move, and the chain around your neck disintigrates because the budgie had been sitting there breaking the links.

Both are males with a great vocab, one seems to recognise people and will talk about them when in the room. (diffrent phrases like where's grandad, when the grandad is in the room, billy is a ***** when billy is in the room etc). The other copies laughs, and the more he does it, the more you laugh, and his laugh changes to copy yours until you're doing the silly near silent laugh that happens when you've got tears running down your face, and he still copies.

I thought this was the norm, but according to posts here about them being kept in cages, apparently it isn't?

Pet maina in naas don't sell live animals. But they have a budgie who has free flight of the shop and spends most of the day sitting on the cash register. I'll get a pic the next time I'm in.

Sigma Force · 29-01-2011 1:51am

Agree, birds cages are supposed to be used as you would a crate for a dog and also the size of the cage comes in to play.

What I've noticed over the years is that unfortunetly budgies and esp. badly bred ones are starting to resemble fat pidgeons in a way the kind of bird that looks like they'd struggle to fly because so many are kept locked up and I know that many many budgie owners do not let their birds out ever, they just see them as ornaments and leave them in tiny cages with no toys or anything.

Budgie cages are a must for keeping the bird safe when there's windows, doors open, cats around or other hazards and for night time as birds do need 12 hours of sleep a night. They also nap during the day so obviously you don't want them falling asleep on top of a door and someone closing it without looking.

They need out every day though and I find they will pop back in by themselves when it's getting dark or they are hungry and they do the exact same thing when in an aviary.

If you put a budgie for example that is used to being in a small cage into a huge one they can find it overwhelming so it's important to get the birds used to any new cage first by placing the cage beside them or gradually putting them into bigger and bigger cages, they don't like change takes them a while to get used to it even toys but once they do they really appreciate the extra space.

Safety is so vital too many birds are allowed to escape out of pure carelessness. There is no need for this if you have a proper routine, doors and windows closed and even a sign up to say bird in flight.
Being careful that the bird always has somewhere safe to land, and noone is going to open a door with the bird perched above it, that the bird doesn't bump into windows they tend to panic the first few times they are let out.
It's important when they are out that they have good lighting they can't see a thing when it's dark and even when it's starting to get dark.

OP it's ok to leave the bird but leave a radio on and have a mirror and toys etc. for the budgie and it'll be very important that the bird gets a couple of hours of attention when you get home and in the mornings place the bird somewhere in the house where he can see what's going on so he has something to look at.
If you have a window that doesn't get direct sunlight (although at this time of year the sun isn't hot coming in the window) so the bird can see out and watch the world go by just ensure that in warmer weather he's not in direct sunlight as it's too hot but they do need some sun for Vit. D.

If you find after a few weeks or months that the budgie isn't bonding then you might have to consider a second budgie as a companion.

No harm in contacting rescues, I've had budgies and cockatiels come from homes where they didn't have the time for them or their buddy died and they needed to find a home where there were other birds for company so they do come up now and then.

The website Northern Parrots has tons of brilliant toys and dvds for birds. zooplus is brilliant for bird cages, got a big one for our tiel and he loves it, you can also get mini avairys for them there get one with castors and a stand so you can move him around it makes life so much easier and they feel safe when they are housed high up.

Fuinseog · 13-10-2011 9:28am

Knine wrote: »

Hya

I keep budgies as pets. They make excellent pets. Once tame they are extremely curious and sociable and love playing with their toys and human interaction. However they are very noisy at times and also leave a mess with their feathers and food being scattered everywhere. I have a Hagen Vision cage which helps prevent some of this mess landing on the floor.

The best place to get a budgie is off a breeder but these can be hard to find. You can also find quality budgies in some of the better petshops as breeders sell their surplus here. It is very important that you buy a baby budgie, one that is younger than 3 months old. Adult budgies are very hard to finger tame. You can recognise a baby budgie as it will (depending on colour) have bars of darker colour extending down its face to its cere. Its eye will also be black rather than having a white ring iris on it. Other signs are some dark colour on its beak.

I would suggest you first get one budgie, get it finger tame by encouraging it to hop onto your finger and feed it with treats such as fruit and veg. Then when you have this one tame, get a second bird and tame this one too. Solitary birds do tend to imitate sounds or voices much better than a pair but due to the fact you are out most of the day, it would be cruel to get just one bird. Also it is great to watch them interacting with each other.

I prefer male budgies as they are friendly, less likely to nip and dont have the high pitched screech of the females. Male or Cock budgies have blue ceres (or pink in certain colour varieties such as recessive pieds) and females or Hens have brown ceres but an out of breeding condition female can also have a bluish cere. Baby budgies have a pinkish cere but you can still tell the females as they will have some whiteish colour around their nostril. The cere is the fleshy area above their beaks. If you get one of each sex they will not breed if you don't place a nest box in with them. 2 male budgies will live happily together.

I buy as large a cage as I can afford and then replace all the plastic perches with natural wood perches which can be got from http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/birds/cage_accessories/perches/14421

Best of luck with your search!

is there any reason why they are so loud? does it mean that they want something?
I can understand cat and dog and am trying to learn what different sounds with budgies could possibly mean.

tatabubbly · 13-10-2011 6:31pm

Okay, I'm going to get scrap for saying this, but I know the pet shop I worked in only got birdies off breeders, usually the same ones who we had a good relationship with and we knew treated their animals right!

In my opinion, its all about looking and chatting to people. Someone in a petshop is a good place to start to price cages, food, toys and also general advice. I work in a different retail area now..

Sigma Force · 13-10-2011 8:20pm

@ Fuinseog budgies do chat away and some are more chatty than others and various tones do mean different things. You get used to understanding them more with practice. There's probably a you tube vid. or website with more detail on what different sounds mean.

If you put a hoover on or radio they start chatting louder.

There's a forum called tailfeathers that should have more info. on it for you.

Fuinseog · 19-10-2011 4:56pm

is there such a thing as budgie bullying and what should we do about it?
I am currently minding budgies and notice the female dominates over the male chasing him away from the food whenever she wants. stand by and watch or intervene as you would with young children?

I mean its just the two of them. you would think they would be able to get along?

Fuinseog · 19-10-2011 4:59pm

Sigma Force wrote: »

@ Fuinseog budgies do chat away and some are more chatty than others and various tones do mean different things. You get used to understanding them more with practice. There's probably a you tube vid. or website with more detail on what different sounds mean.

If you put a hoover on or radio they start chatting louder.

There's a forum called tailfeathers that should have more info. on it for you.

they seem to react more to womens voices than men. the chirp away when the tv is on but I noticed the chirping getting louder, drowning out the conservation, when a few girls were in the room.

santasbird · 19-10-2011 5:24pm

Dont really know if there is such thing as 'budgie bullying' but when I had two females and one male, the females always seem to be boss. As soon as the male went to the seed, they would follow. He'd allow the females to feed first and then he would feed. Bit of pecking order I think.

As for chirpping loud. My birds cage was in the sitting room. When a football match was on they'd go mad. Came home one day to find the cage in the hall. My husband had had enough. Cage now in the kitchen.

Sigma Force · 19-10-2011 7:05pm

Hens do tend to be the bossier ones, they like to keep their bloke in check (too right). Just make sure there's enough food for the both of them, perhaps dotting a feeder or hanging treats at the other end of the cage so he can still sneak a snack when she's busy eating.

It's pretty normal although aggression isn't likely if it's just the two of them and they get on. Hens can get bored more easily, males tend to be more laid back. Plenty of toys and things to see and do will help. But in general in budgies worlds women rule.

With budgies sometimes they get on great sometimes they don't but when there's just two they should I wouldn't worry too much.

Fuinseog · 04-12-2011 4:51pm

I am trying to tame two budgies. I let them fly around the room but then I have to get them back into the cage. one will heed hints, the other goes in if they feel like it. I am also trying to teach them to land on certain objects and not others(they are destroying the wooden blind)

both are at least two years old so more difficult to train than younger birds?
I could stroke one and he would jump onto my hand, but of late he will not do this, either because he has a short memory span or he is under her influence and she will just fly away if I get close.

If I get them into the bathroom they are easier to control, but once they go back to their room its back to square one.

should I clip their wings and is so is it easy to do? would this lead to more cooperation?

you are not supposed to pick them up, although I read the way to do it is between your first two fingers. if I am holding her safely she will try to bit me.

any advice appreciated.

Sigma Force · 04-12-2011 9:23pm

Noo don't clip their wings, (and obviously don't attempt to yourself that's a job for an avian vet). Clipping their wings will affect their flight and you really want them to fly properly to keep their muscle tone and so they don't become over weight.

You can pick them up obviously being careful to hold them correctly and not to put any pressure on their chest/tum.

Two budgies together tend to bond with each other more than their owner, they are also individuals some are more outgoing or more friendly than others.

It's best to maybe get in to a routine with them budgies will generally return to their cage when they are hungry, if for any reason you need to get them back in to their cage quickly you can darken the room, do this carefull so as not to spook them and not to accidently trod on them etc. once the room is dark the budgie won't be able to see well and you can pick the bird up or use a tea towel to pick the bird up.

It can take time with getting them to perch but budgies..in my experience hens especially..can be stubborn if she doesn't want to go to her cage yet she will do all she can not to go in. Once her buddy is in the cage though she should follow him in sometimes it's a waiting game.

Fuinseog · 05-01-2012 5:31pm

I am trying to get my budgies to mate if it is at all possible. Both are around three years old and until about six monthns ago were not given much attention. she seems to wear the trousers.

I have placed a shoebox with two holes on top of the cage.
she has taken it over and he is apparently not allowed in. I put him in with her and there was blue murder.
I have placed wooden shreds from a christams basket inside the box which both seem to enjoz ripping out and throwing on teh ground, tough they also sem to decorate the cage with it.

if they are to mate it is best that I am not in the room or do they carry on with an audience present?
if the male is not dominant does that mena the chances of mating are smaller?
any replies would be appreciated.

Budgie ethics advice please

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