Really,are there that many teachers retiring in October?

The Wordress · 28-09-2020 11:35pm

I am primary and graduated in 2006. I would like to go at 60/62, all going well. What would my pension look like? Could I go then easily enough? Thank you!

emilymemily · 01-10-2020 12:39am

ethical wrote: »

According to one Teacher Union there is going to be an avalanche in October as regards teachers retiring and they are asking the Teaching Council to fast track the registrations of those that have degrees and are well down the road to getting their teacher qualifications so that the problem of teacher shortage is addressed and there is no issues when the retirements kick in.
I must admit this has sort of shocked me ,in the sense that I have not heard of that many thinking about retiring.What do you all reckon ,will many retire?

Where are these teacher shortages? Ive been out of work since June and havnt had so much as an interview. I had one school contact me to see if I would be available for casual supervision, havnt heard anything from them since.
There have always been shortages for casual subbing in all subjects but it's such unreliable and unstable work.
Any permanent vacancies going will be snapped up by teachers who have been subbing for along time.
Fast tracking registration for student teachers will no doubt create further job insecurity for qualified teachers.

mirrorwall14 · 01-10-2020 12:49am

emilymemily wrote: »

Where are these teacher shortages? Ive been out of work since June and havnt had so much as an interview. I had one school contact me to see if I would be available for casual supervision, havnt heard anything from them since.
There have always been shortages for casual subbing in all subjects but it's such unreliable and unstable work.
Any permanent vacancies going will be snapped up by teachers who have been subbing for along time.
Fast tracking registration for student teachers will no doubt create further job insecurity for qualified teachers.

Depends on where you are. There’s been zero applicants for jobs in maths and Irish for example in my area in recent years

emilymemily · 01-10-2020 1:05am

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Depends on where you are. There’s been zero applicants for jobs in maths and Irish for example in my area in recent years

Yes I understand it's subject specific. I dont understand why the teaching council, unions, DES wont do anything to fix the problem.
College intake for over subscribed subjects should be once every 2 or 3 years and student teachers shouldnt be allowed to sub in these subjects imo.
In demand subjects should have a faster route to qualification or alternative route. Reinstating the one year Hdip for Irish, Maths and other in demand subjects for example would sort the problem out within a year.
No doubt if they fast track registration they will do it with all subjects, not just the ones most needed.

solerina · 03-10-2020 5:07pm

I saw four social media posts from local teachers about their retirement yesterday, so it’s quite possible a good few have retired across the country, hopefully this will allow some NQTs get their foot on the CID ladder.

wirelessdude01 · 03-10-2020 5:08pm

solerina wrote: »

I saw four social media posts from local teachers about their retirement yesterday, so it’s quite possible a good few have retired across the country, hopefully this will allow some NQTs get their foot on the CID ladder.

I know of 4 who retired yesterday in one school alone.

dory · 05-10-2020 3:06pm

The Wordress wrote: »

I am primary and graduated in 2006. I would like to go at 60/62, all going well. What would my pension look like? Could I go then easily enough? Thank you!

2004 is the magic number so the short answer is no, unless you go under the cost neutral retire early scheme. From PRSA people:

Those who started after 04 & Before 2013

A1 PRSI Payers

Retirement age is 65

Can retire from 55 under Cost Neutral Early Retirement

The chart I have only says the percentages between 50 and 59 years of age, so I'd presume that's for the cohort before you (the can go from 50). As you can go from 55, then at 62 you'd have somewhere around 90% of the lump sum and retirement salary.

khalessi · 05-10-2020 4:45pm

dory wrote: »

2004 is the magic number so the short answer is no, unless you go under the cost neutral retire early scheme. From PRSA people:

Those who started after 04 & Before 2013

A1 PRSI Payers

Retirement age is 65

Can retire from 55 under Cost Neutral Early Retirement

The chart I have only says the percentages between 50 and 59 years of age, so I'd presume that's for the cohort before you (the can go from 50). As you can go from 55, then at 62 you'd have somewhere around 90% of the lump sum and retirement salary.

What is cost neutral early retirement?

2011abc · 05-10-2020 5:29pm

khalessi wrote: »

What is cost neutral early retirement?

Its leaving before youve either served 40 years or availed of the 55/33 deal .You will have your entitlements severely curtailed.Pension will be in many cases less than standard non contributory OAP.In fact you could even end up with less after 37 or 38 years than you would on the 55/33 deal (this is a chance to get out at min age 55 and 33 years served with 2 years service added for your college years )
I believe in the past in the case of critical career ending illness your service could be boosted by up to 6 and two thirds years but that may be a distant memory of a far more humane time pre-Medmark /50% sick leave etc

spurious · 05-10-2020 6:12pm

khalessi wrote: »

What is cost neutral early retirement?

I went cost neutral after almost 28 years. Pension 16k.

dory · 05-10-2020 8:16pm

2011abc wrote: »

Its leaving before youve either served 40 years or availed of the 55/33 deal .You will have your entitlements severely curtailed.Pension will be in many cases less than standard non contributory OAP.In fact you could even end up with less after 37 or 38 years than you would on the 55/33 deal (this is a chance to get out at min age 55 and 33 years served with 2 years service added for your college years )
I believe in the past in the case of critical career ending illness your service could be boosted by up to 6 and two thirds years but that may be a distant memory of a far more humane time pre-Medmark /50% sick leave etc

From what I've read 55/33 rule isn't relevant to those who qualified after 2004. So for the OP they have to go to 65, unless they go the cost neutral way.

Basically, it means it won't cost the government extra for you to go early. So if you go very early, you'll get a LOT less. if you go a tiny bit early, you'll get a small bit less.

The pensions are for those who started up to 1995, from 1995-2004 , 2004 - 2013, and post 2013. So you need to get info that suits your group.

The Wordress · 05-10-2020 9:10pm

dory wrote: »

2004 is the magic number so the short answer is no, unless you go under the cost neutral retire early scheme. From PRSA people:

Those who started after 04 & Before 2013

A1 PRSI Payers

Retirement age is 65

Can retire from 55 under Cost Neutral Early Retirement

The chart I have only says the percentages between 50 and 59 years of age, so I'd presume that's for the cohort before you (the can go from 50). As you can go from 55, then at 62 you'd have somewhere around 90% of the lump sum and retirement salary.

Many thanks Dory, you're very good for posting that information.

I love teaching ane I love being around children but working with negative people would take it out of you!

Grueller · 09-10-2020 7:33pm

04-13 beginners can go early as far as I know without cost neutral if they have the means to leave the pension alone until they turn 65.
For example, Tom is 57 with 35 years service. He has a small side business, no kids in college and mortgage paid. He decides to retire and not claim any pension until he is 65. He then gets 35/80s as normal from age 65.
Correct me if I am wrong.

mtoutlemonde · 09-10-2020 8:46pm

Grueller wrote: »

04-13 beginners can go early as far as I know without cost neutral if they have the means to leave the pension alone until they turn 65.
For example, Tom is 57 with 35 years service. He has a small side business, no kids in college and mortgage paid. He decides to retire and not claim any pension until he is 65. He then gets 35/80s as normal from age 65.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Would an AVC close that gap? Can you draw that when you retire at any age?

Icsics · 09-10-2020 8:48pm

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Would an AVC close that gap? Can you draw that when you retire at any age?

Afaik AVCs are for increasing lump sum, only

mtoutlemonde · 09-10-2020 8:56pm

Icsics wrote: »

Afaik AVCs are for increasing lump sum, only

I know but can you draw it down if you retire early and wait for state pension? Ideal situation, mortgage paid, receive lump sum and AVC if it is allowed. Subbing/exams could tide you over as well.

rainbowtrout · 09-10-2020 11:39pm

Grueller wrote: »

04-13 beginners can go early as far as I know without cost neutral if they have the means to leave the pension alone until they turn 65.
For example, Tom is 57 with 35 years service. He has a small side business, no kids in college and mortgage paid. He decides to retire and not claim any pension until he is 65. He then gets 35/80s as normal from age 65.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes that’s correct. I don’t think it was the point people were querying though. People can ‘retire’ at any age. Most would not have the means perhaps to support themselves financially until 65 without the pension.

killbillvol2 · 10-10-2020 12:54am

Icsics wrote: »

Afaik AVCs are for increasing lump sum, only

That's completely incorrect but I don't have the energy to explain why as it's been done to death on this forum and a basic Google search would explain it.

Grueller · 10-10-2020 7:39am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Yes that’s correct. I don’t think it was the point people were querying though. People can ‘retire’ at any age. Most would not have the means perhaps to support themselves financially until 65 without the pension.

To be honest, after living through the lockdown, I think most would have the means to go 5 years early and.do a bit of SEC work, subbing etc.
The idea of funding a retirement has often been about the South of France or Spanish villa dream. The lockdown has shown me that I will be well capable of early retirement as my wife and I can live comfortably on a small income once the mortgage is gone and our 2 kids are educated. We would have any comforts that we would require, if not a lavish lifestyle. The travel lifestyle may be at an end soon anyhow due to climate change etc but that's a debate for another day.

2011abc · 10-10-2020 5:54pm

Grueller wrote: »

To be honest, after living through the lockdown, I think most would have the means to go 5 years early and.do a bit of SEC work, subbing etc.
The idea of funding a retirement has often been about the South of France or Spanish villa dream. The lockdown has shown me that I will be well capable of early retirement as my wife and I can live comfortably on a small income once the mortgage is gone and our 2 kids are educated. We would have any comforts that we would require, if not a lavish lifestyle. The travel lifestyle may be at an end soon anyhow due to climate change etc but that's a debate for another day.

Unless youre living on rice /pasta/porridge flakes etc and not driving youre still going to need a tidy sum /pension to support any kind of lifestyle with wifi /tv channels /the odd meal out etc .Would hate to be on a subsistence budget after toiling for decades .Then again thats the way things are heading thanks to neoliberalism -but thats a debate for another day .

Grueller · 11-10-2020 2:06pm

2011abc wrote: »

Unless youre living on rice /pasta/porridge flakes etc and not driving youre still going to need a tidy sum /pension to support any kind of lifestyle with wifi /tv channels /the odd meal out etc .Would hate to be on a subsistence budget after toiling for decades .Then again thats the way things are heading thanks to neoliberalism -but thats a debate for another day .

Two people in a house with no dependents. Actuarially reduced pension to €20k per year. Second person contributing even part time earnings of €200 per week and you are into €600 per week for for 2 people.
That doesn't include any SEC work or subbing to bump income.
No need for porridge, rice, pasta and wearing a hair shirt on that. I know families with 3 kids living on that.

2011abc · 11-10-2020 2:41pm

Grueller wrote: »

Two people in a house with no dependents. Actuarially reduced pension to €20k per year. Second person contributing even part time earnings of €200 per week and you are into €600 per week for for 2 people.
That doesn't include any SEC work or subbing to bump income.
No need for porridge, rice, pasta and wearing a hair shirt on that. I know families with 3 kids living on that.

They musnt be into concerts ,kids extra curricular classes etc .To get 20k actuarily reduced youd have to be darn near pension age anyway AND on a high salary min 70k +

rainbowtrout · 11-10-2020 6:59pm

Grueller wrote: »

Two people in a house with no dependents. Actuarially reduced pension to €20k per year. Second person contributing even part time earnings of €200 per week and you are into €600 per week for for 2 people.
That doesn't include any SEC work or subbing to bump income.
No need for porridge, rice, pasta and wearing a hair shirt on that. I know families with 3 kids living on that.

That's your situation right now presumably. People are older getting married and having kids. Looking around my staffroom, the majority of women who had kids in the last 10 years had them from the age of 35 onwards. A baby born to a woman under 30 is a rarity. Most of those teachers will have teenagers/college age kids in their mid to late 50s. Many women take unpaid leave/career break/job share when there are small kids at home. Difficulties in securing full time jobs in the last 15 years or so will also contribute to teachers not having 33 years at the age of 55 which was common in the past.

Not everyone does SEC work. Chances are if they haven't done it before retirement they are not going to take it up after retirement. In my view there are two camps of people who do SEC work, those that do it year after year, and those who do it for a year or two and never do it again. When I see new examiners, they tend to be young, not teachers on the verge of retirement.

I'd say there is practically zero chance of post 2004 teachers going at 55 even on an actuarial reduced pension, as they will still have children at home, and will probably still be paying for a mortgage, unless they have a husband/wife who is earning serious money.

Grueller · 14-10-2020 12:27pm

2011abc wrote: »

They musnt be into concerts ,kids extra curricular classes etc .To get 20k actuarily reduced youd have to be darn near pension age anyway AND on a high salary min 70k +

Top of scale with AP11 would be that salary.
I said retire at 60 that is near pension age and if started teaching at 25 is 35 years service.
They are not into concerts or classes to be fair but they do spoil their grandkids something rotten. Not with presents but with presence. They spend most of their time on a half acre vegetable garden. They lead a simple life and live,and always did live, by the saying "happiness comes not from having more but from being satisfied with less".
It all depends on lifestyle I suppose.

khalessi · 14-10-2020 12:59pm

Few teachers leaving my school and going down the country as they feel the covid levels too high in Dublin.

rainbowtrout · 14-10-2020 5:03pm

Grueller wrote: »

Top of scale with AP11 would be that salary.
I said retire at 60 that is near pension age and if started teaching at 25 is 35 years service.
They are not into concerts or classes to be fair but they do spoil their grandkids something rotten. Not with presents but with presence. They spend most of their time on a half acre vegetable garden. They lead a simple life and live,and always did live, by the saying "happiness comes not from having more but from being satisfied with less".
It all depends on lifestyle I suppose.

It's not typical of most people though is it? Starting teaching at 25 is normal enough, but many won't be on full hours for the first few years. That has a knock on effect.

wirelessdude01 · 14-10-2020 5:07pm

khalessi wrote: »

Few teachers leaving my school and going down the country as they feel the covid levels too high in Dublin.

They giving up jobs?

khalessi · 14-10-2020 6:27pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

They giving up jobs?

Giving up permanent jobs and taking mat leaves or sub work

Really,are there that many teachers retiring in October?

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