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Is this evidence of Subsidence?

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  • 16-04-2019 10:55am
    #1
    stevire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭


    Are the photos below evidence of subsidence or some other type of structural movement? What is the best way to determine the root cause?

    Majority of the cracks are external and quite small in width at the moment but concerning none the less.

    Gable End of the House:
    477918.jpeg

    Gable End of the House:
    477919.jpeg

    Rear of the House:
    477920.jpeg

    Internal wall:
    477921.jpeg

    Gable End on Opposite Side:
    477922.jpeg


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    #2
    chicorytip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,095 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    How old is the property?
    Do you have any difficulty opening or closing the windows and doors?
    Have you checked the rafters in the attic for any signs of breakage or cracks?


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    #3
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    That house looks like it's 30+ years old. It would be very unusual for cracks to suddenly appear unless there was nearby construction works, ground works or some sort of changes to the ground drainage status.

    Are these cracks new?

    Either way you need to use a device called a "tell tale" to see if the cracks are moving or changing shape. The one that's evident inside particularly. You can buy fancy ones or you can make ones up yourself.


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    #4
    chicorytip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,095 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    I had similar cracks in my own home, minor external ones and one pretty large one in a bedroom. I had a structural engineer do an inspection but he saw no undelying issues. I filled in the cracks and they have not reappeared in three years. If you do have a structural or foundation problem you will always see wide cracks running from the bottom to the very top of the house including the attic area as well as finding windows and doors sticking. If you don't have these symptoms you have nothing serious to be concerned about.


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    #5
    Ron Burgundy II
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Ron Burgundy II


    Appoint an Engineer to review the cracks.

    No harm in getting a CCTV survey of the drains, movement in foundations is often associated with leaking drains. The Engineer will request this to be carried out so no harm in getting quotes now.


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    #6
    stevire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭stevire


    Thanks for all the replies folks, much appreciated. To clarify this is a house that we're looking to purchase. I just got off the phone with the engineer an hour ago and their recommendation is to implement telltale signs and those cracks look to be there a long time. Pit tests were also mentioned but could be overkill at this stage
    chicorytip wrote: »
    How old is the property?
    Do you have any difficulty opening or closing the windows and doors?
    Have you checked the rafters in the attic for any signs of breakage or cracks?

    Property was built around 1980, no difficulty in closing windows or doors. No breakage in the rafters, one of the joists have woodworm
    Metric Tensor wrote: »
    That house looks like it's 30+ years old. It would be very unusual for cracks to suddenly appear unless there was nearby construction works, ground works or some sort of changes to the ground drainage status.

    Are these cracks new?

    Either way you need to use a device called a "tell tale" to see if the cracks are moving or changing shape. The one that's evident inside particularly. You can buy fancy ones or you can make ones up yourself.

    Just found out the cracks are old so not as worrying when I first saw them. Tell tale was recommended by engineer so will definitely look at that.
    Ron Burgundy II wrote: »
    Appoint an Engineer to review the cracks.

    No harm in getting a CCTV survey of the drains, movement in foundations is often associated with leaking drains. The Engineer will request this to be carried out so no harm in getting quotes now.

    Any idea how much a drain survey would cost? Dyno rod the best for the job?


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    #7
    Irishphotodesk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    Apologies if I come across as ignorant but would one of the joists in the attic having woodworm not be a major red flag ?

    The cracks to me look to be normal enough for a house, my initial reaction was could it be pyrite because it’s common enough in my area, but given the house was made in the 80s I doubt pyrite would be an issue.


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    #8
    Ron Burgundy II
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Ron Burgundy II


    stevire wrote: »
    Any idea how much a drain survey would cost? Dyno rod the best for the job?

    Not sure where the house is located but google CCTV drain survey and see who is local to the house.

    If you're only purchasing the house the vendors will not allow you to monitor it nor carry out any opening up works. But an inspection of the drains is standard and should be allowed by the vendor.

    Is photo 4 internal of photo 1??


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    #9
    stevire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭stevire


    Irishphotodesk wrote: »
    Apologies if I come across as ignorant but would one of the joists in the attic having woodworm not be a major red flag ?

    The cracks to me look to be normal enough for a house, my initial reaction was could it be pyrite because it’s common enough in my area, but given the house was made in the 80s I doubt pyrite would be an issue.

    Going by the engineer the joist is still good and just had some early signs of woodworm. Treat it and monitor it. I am open to correction but I don't believe replacing a joist is a major job?

    Cool thanks for the feedback :)
    Ron Burgundy II wrote: »
    Not sure where the house is located but google CCTV drain survey and see who is local to the house.

    If you're only purchasing the house the vendors will not allow you to monitor it nor carry out any opening up works. But an inspection of the drains is standard and should be allowed by the vendor.

    Is photo 4 internal of photo 1??

    Thanks Ron, will ring around today to get quotes.

    The crack in Photo 4 doesn't have an external wall on the other side, it backs on to an internal wall of the bathroom


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    #10
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    stevire wrote: »
    Going by the engineer the joist is still good and just had some early signs of woodworm. Treat it and monitor it. I am open to correction but I don't believe replacing a joist is a major job?

    Woodworm in general prefers damper timber, so may also be an indication that attic space is not sufficiently ventilated? Think too of timber that you or engineer can't see. They'll cover themselves in any report by saying their inspection and/or advice doesn't apply to covered up or inaccessible areas.

    Don't think it should put you off, esp if price & location is OK, but be cautious and ask your engineer of what he thinks of any underlying issues???


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    #11
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    stevire wrote: »
    Rear of the House:
    477920.jpeg
    Is that a rainwater downpipe lying on the ground? The implication being that water is coming off the roof and isn't being directed away from the house?

    I would have the engineer do a formal inspection and use the weight of that to hustle the vendor down on price.

    Expect to have to spend money on the house - rot treatment, structure, windows, insulation, electrical & plumbing. Kitchen and bathroom are up to you.


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    #12
    The Enbalmer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭The Enbalmer


    Looks like pyrite..don't walk away..run!


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    #13
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    stevire wrote: »

    Any idea how much a drain survey would cost? Dyno rod the best for the job?
    You could do a Google search or just get a quote off some operators. There may be some local companies who do just as good a job , but cheaper. We got it done quite some years ago and it was expensive enough. Have seen prices of €150 but it could be a lot more than that.


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    #14
    chicorytip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,095 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    The Enbalmer wrote:
    Looks like pyrite..don't walk away..run!


    I would disagree. The presence of Pyrite would result in much wider cracks forming than those in the photographs.


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    #15
    The Enbalmer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭The Enbalmer


    chicorytip wrote:
    I would disagree. The presence of Pyrite would result in much wider cracks forming than those in the photographs.


    Perhaps.
    But if a house is cracking,whatever the cause it's not a good sign


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    #16
    stevire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭stevire


    Thanks for the replies folks. Had builder and roofer in today, they gave it a good once over.

    It's looking like the the low pitch roof (22deg) is putting pressure on the walls and causing the cracks, the roof was identified by the engineer too as something that will need to be replaced in the next 10 years. At least we should add in steel supports, and the best solution is to raise the pitch to min 30 deg with slates instead of the current heavy tiles.

    No signs of pyrite and looking less like foundation issues, more roof issues. We had expected plumbing, insulation and window upgrades but the roof is a bit of a stinger.


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