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Have we reach peak LGBT nonsense?

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  • 12-04-2019 8:34pm
    #1
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭


    Haven't read the detail but in essence a rugby players career called a halt to because he said gays and various other sinners will go to hell.

    Leaving aside his dodgy theology (if God was in the business of excluding sinners from heaven then nobody would "get there"), is this not a case of LGBT sensitivity gone mad?

    You are now not allowed to state your belief?

    I can understand that some in A&A might rejoice but surely many can see the deeper ramifications: that at another time and place, their own expression of belief might not be of the moment and be condemned for mere expression.

    Thin end of a thick wedge, this one.


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    #2
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,300 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    Haven't read the detail but in essence a rugby players career called a halt to because he said gays and various other sinners will go to hell.

    Leaving aside his dodgy theology (if God was in the business of excluding sinners from heaven then nobody would "get there"), is this not a case of LGBT sensitivity gone mad?

    You are now not allowed to state your belief?

    I can understand that some in A&A might rejoice but surely many can see the deeper ramifications: that at another time and place, their own expression of belief might not be of the moment and be condemned for mere expression.

    Thin end of a thick wedge, this one.

    He represents his club. Odds are there’s is s gay person in his team. He deserves what happened to him.


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    #3
    Varta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 517 ✭✭✭Varta


    He said that gay people will go to a place that doesn't exist, so they have absolutely nothing to worry about.


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    #4
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    Haven't read the detail.............l


    Heaven forfend.



    This is the second time in about a year he's trotted out Baby Jesus' plan for the gays. The first was let go but apparently patience has withered since then.


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    #5
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    He will be punished not for expressing his religious 'beliefs' as such but rather for violating (again) a Code of Conduct that he has signed up for which basically tells him to keep all that nonsense to himself.


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    #6
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,478 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    You are now not allowed to state your belief?
    of course he is 'allowed' state his belief.
    just as i am allowed stand up in the office and state my belief that protestants are sinners and will burn in hell. i just won't get a second opportunity.


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    #7
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    of course he is 'allowed' state his belief.
    just as i am allowed stand up in the office and state my belief that protestants are sinners and will burn in hell. i just won't get a second opportunity.

    Just as you wouldn't have gotten a 2nd opportunity in 1953 to stand up in your office and announce that you were gay.

    He who lives by the mood of the time, dies by the mood of the time.

    So much for enlightened thinking.


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    #8
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,478 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i'm genuinely not sure if you're trying to undermine your own point?


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    #9
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,115 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    I'm outraged. I'm an atheist and I'm not going to hell.

    I dunno though, why is this peak LGBT nonsense?


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    #10
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    Haven't read the detail but in essence a rugby players career called a halt to because he said gays and various other sinners will go to hell.

    Leaving aside his dodgy theology (if God was in the business of excluding sinners from heaven then nobody would "get there"), is this not a case of LGBT sensitivity gone mad?

    You are now not allowed to state your belief?

    I can understand that some in A&A might rejoice but surely many can see the deeper ramifications: that at another time and place, their own expression of belief might not be of the moment and be condemned for mere expression.

    Thin end of a thick wedge, this one.
    Saying that gay people deserve to be tortured for being gay is a bad thing.

    It would be just as offensive if he said that gay people deserve to be stoned/beaten up/excluded from jobs etc.
    It would be just as offensive if he said that other races deserve the same thing.

    You're allowed to state your belief, but you can't really whine that people don't like you when your belief is a bit awful and hurtful.
    Maybe he shouldn't hold a terrible belief like "gays deserve to be tortured" when there's no basis for it in the first place.


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    #11
    Varta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 517 ✭✭✭Varta


    Why isn't he losing his job for saying that adulterers will go to Hell?


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    #12
    DesperateDan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭DesperateDan


    I wonder if some chap didn't happen to jot down how sinful it was to be gay 2k years ago, if we would still find a way to demonize it


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    #13
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i'm genuinely not sure if you're trying to undermine your own point?

    The point asks whether we are to live merely by the mood of the time. What's right is what's right now.

    Or whether there are some fundamentals that ought not vary over time (like freedom of expression)

    That the gay in 1953 wasn't free then but is now isn't the point. The point is whether there ought be freedom at all times to express.


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    #14
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,291 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    He’s losing his job because he publicly expressed his private views, as a top international rugby player he is part of Australian rugby’s image which he has a duty to keep. Sponsors won’t be happy with what he says as they don’t want to have links to such a person. He is perfectly entitled to his own beliefs but when he publicly makes ridiculous statements that affect his employer then they are entitled to do something about it.


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    #15
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,824 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I think him being punished instead of a well deserved ridicule will just turn him into some sort of martyr and actually reinforce these views for the people that have them. He is an idiot and needs to be called out as such, not shut down.


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    #16
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,291 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Cordell wrote: »
    I think him being punished instead of a well deserved ridicule will just turn him into some sort of martyr and actually reinforce these views for the people that have them. He is an idiot and needs to be called out as such, not shut down.

    He’s been called out in the rugby community by quite a few top players in fairness. He has form for this and on top of his nonsense beliefs he’s a dick.


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    #17
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Tell me why you are saying it is nonsense to call out someone who demonises LGBT people?


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    #18
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,291 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    dudara wrote: »
    Tell me why you are saying it is nonsense to call out someone who demonises LGBT people?

    Not quite sure who your asking that of?


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    #19
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Cordell wrote: »
    I think him being punished instead of a well deserved ridicule will just turn him into some sort of martyr and actually reinforce these views for the people that have them. He is an idiot and needs to be called out as such, not shut down.
    He is a public figure and has a contract with the national team. How you are expected to behave implicit in such contracts. Should have kept it to himself or expressed it privately. The boy's got form here too.


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    #20
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    salmocab wrote: »
    Not quite sure who your asking that of?

    The OP


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    #21
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,520 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    If ever the first 4 words of the opening post of a thread showed the mindset of those who spend their time giving out about how things like being decent to others is a sign that society is falling apart then those at the start of this thread nailed it.


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    #22
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    If he said that all black people should burn in hell we simply would not be having this discussion.

    What he said towards gay people is no different.

    He can express his views, but his employer doesn't have to employ him when he breaches the contrat he signed with them. Its very simple.

    People should see these types of views for what they are, hateful. They should not be supported, we live in a better society then that.


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    #23
    Marengo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭Marengo


    Izzy Folau.. what a sight in full flight or claiming a high ball on a rugby field. A bit like racehorse Secretariat, described as 'God's Perfect Creature'.

    Entitled to his beliefs, absolutely. However as a Christian I find his beliefs very anti Christian. No one can judge another or post or speak comments like that. That's hate not love, not the Christian or Humanitarian attitude. P.s. You don't need religion to be a decent human being.

    Much and all as I love him as a rugby player he's been given several chances.


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    #24
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    The ppl who are creating the nonsense are the ppl who say that gays are immoral and will burn in hell.


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    #25
    Varta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 517 ✭✭✭Varta


    He is using rugby to voice his religious beliefs. This is wrong. It's also wrong when footballers pray on the pitch before the start of a game, deliberately bringing their religion into a stadium packed with people. They should be told to do it in private. People who are religious are delusional. People who hold extreme religious beliefs are mentally ill. If I were gay I wouldn't be too bothered by what a person who believes in Hell or Heaven has to say about me. They are really saying much more about themselves.


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    #26
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,719 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    I can understand that some in A&A might rejoice but surely many can see the deeper ramifications: that at another time and place, their own expression of belief might not be of the moment and be condemned for mere expression.

    Atheists are on his shít list too though this has very little to do with the A&A forum. I'd imagine if you posted the same thing on the Christianity forum, you'd get pretty much the same reaction you're seeing here. Homophobia is generally considered hateful and not acceptable to anyone in our society.

    477703.JPG


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    #27
    Varta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 517 ✭✭✭Varta


    If you accept religion then you must also accept religious beliefs.


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    #28
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    I'm getting seriously fed up with this kind of attempt to paint the LGBT+ community as whining.

    In Ireland yes, for the last few years (after decades and centuries of oppression) things are finally good. However, that didn't happen by accident and there was a long struggle to get to this point and there are still issues with homophobic nonsense, but thankfully mostly on the minor scale of things.

    There are still major issues with homophobia elsewhere in the world and it can range from just bullying, to being unable to obtain employment or access public services, to being forced to remain hidden away or to have to deal with politics (including in the US and parts of the EU) that's trying to strip rights away.

    At the extreme end there are still countries around the world where being gay is illegal and punishable by lengthy prison sentences or even death.
    There are still people advocating stoning gay people and throwing them off buildings.

    In sport there's still also a huge issue with homophobia. It's improving but look at how difficult it has been for people to come out. It's still big news in many sports when a prominent player is gay.

    All of this stuff has to be tackled and religious excuses for homophobia are no better than religious excuses for racism.

    How would you like it if you'd people going around telling you you'd burn in hell or that you were evil?

    This kind of thing causes depression, social isolation and even suicides.

    I'm really starting to get more than a bit annoyed with these attempts to normalise homophobia and remove people's right to be angry about it.

    Try walking in someone else's shoes for a while OP and seeing the world from another perspective for a while.

    Swap the word gay in that list for an ethnic group or religious group and he'd be getting his P45 but clearly those kinds of statements about gay people are still up for debate, which says everything really.

    Also try swapping the word atheist for a religious group and you'd get a similarly swift response, which illustrates how little protection atheists actually have. Also a group who are subject to serious problems in very religious countries and communities.


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    #29
    Marengo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭Marengo


    Varta wrote: »
    He is using rugby to voice his religious beliefs. This is wrong. It's also wrong when footballers pray on the pitch before the start of a game, deliberately bringing their religion into a stadium packed with people. They should be told to do it in private. People who are religious are delusional. People who hold extreme religious beliefs are mentally ill. If I were gay I wouldn't be too bothered by what a person who believes in Hell or Heaven has to say about me. They are really saying much more about themselves.

    Ok here's just a quick list of Christian scientists, not exclusive. http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html Look at the division among modern scientists. https://owlcation.com/humanities/10-Brilliant-Scientists-and-Their-View-of-God
    These great minds were delusional but you, like myself, pretty much a non entity in terms of the intellect of these people, can make a sweeping statement like that.

    In your own way you're just as insulting of a large cohort of society as those who preach hatred of gay people, black people etc. So much intolerance from those who purport to be tolerant.


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    #30
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    DesperateDan wrote: »
    I wonder if some chap didn't happen to jot down how sinful it was to be gay 2k years ago, if we would still find a way to demonize it

    Which chap jotted down what where now? No, we have yet to reach peak LGBTQ nonsense. There’s a long way to go.


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    #31
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Varta wrote: »
    Why isn't he losing his job for saying that adulterers will go to Hell?


    It's not the same thing.
    You can choose not to be an adulterer....



    Would it be ok to say black people are wrong and should burn in hell for daring to be black?

    (EDIT , beaten to it)

    This is yet more proof that religion is stupid and unecessary. All it does it drive wedges between groups, cause hate and none of the good they do couldnt be done be community groups or other types just coming together.


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