Proper Irish Stew

mildews · 29-01-2008 9:15pm

Ah! Irish Stew, the cause of many a heated debate,,,

Traditionally there were three ingredients.

1 Mutton (not Lamb, Beef, pig, Child or Mother-in-law)
2 Potatoes
3 Onions

oh yea, and water.

Mutton is the meat from a castrated sheep of one year old and over...OUCH!!:eek:
Lamb was never used as why would you use an animal that would feed 20 when you could wait a year, get some wool off it, kill it and it would feed 60+ and keep them warm. And why would you use a "Ewe" as this gave milk (For your Porridge) and baby sheep.

Potatoes and onions were the staple foods of the time.

Carrots and celery!!!!! Never.. these people didn't know what they were!!
Barley was sometimes used depending on where you came from. or if you could afford it. The only herbs that were used were the ones growing wild and generally you wouldn't get them in winter.. No posh herb gardens here.:D

The Sweeper · 29-01-2008 10:09pm

I will absolutely accept all criticisms of my recipe as being non-traditional based on using lamb instead of mutton, going in the oven instead of on the hob and including carrots and celery. I'm still rejecting the beef suggestion as the devil's work.

The herb end of things - parsley, rosemary and thyme are indeed mediterranean herbs, but I'm unsure when they were effectively introduced to Ireland and ran riot so they could be found growing wild. (You should be glad I didn't recommend using only parsely and lemon thyme.)

To me, the question is what is traditional cookery is something that should span two camps. The first is the historically accurate camp - the one that says all you could afford was mutton, and onions and potatoes, and you boiled the lot in water and added some salt, if you had some. By 'historically' I don't necessarily mean 'What my mom made it like'. I like the 1700s as a century for classing 'historical', purely because it's when a lot of people started making a concerted effort to write their recipes down.

The second camp is the 'modern improvements with faithfulness to the spirit of the recipe' camp. For instance, I can now easily get my hands on thyme and rosemary, which I know taste good, and carrots and celery, ditto, and sea salt and cracked black pepper, so I add these into the recipe. I also go for lamb, instead of mutton, because it's easier to source. I leave out barley because of the flatulence issue (same with dried soup mix and other store cupboard bloaters).

I believe there's a step too far on modern improvements as well, and if you take that step you should stop using the word 'traditional' completely. I've had some variations on Irish Stew when eating out that stopped me in my tracks. They included some, or on one memorable occasion all, of the following in the recipe:

Guinness
Parsnips
Leeks
Pork and leek sausages (this actaully tastes really good, but it's so not Irish Stew)
Dumplings (again with the tasting good but the not being Irish Stew)
Enough salt to kill a donkey (but that could just have been because the kitchens weren't tasting anything that day)

noby · 30-01-2008 9:56am

MAJD, see my post of 12.48 yesterday. I'm not fighting to keep the word Traditional in the title. But to me, putting it in the oven is as "wrong" as using beef.

Now I'm no historian, but perhaps back in the 1700's every family had a sheep or a goat, but going back, say, 100 years ago a lot of people lived in an urban environment, and went to their butchers. Perhaps that's when the cheap cuts of beef started to be used (by some families, obviously).

BaZmO* · 30-01-2008 10:36am

noby wrote: »

Now I'm no historian, but perhaps back in the 1700's every family had a sheep or a goat, but going back, say, 100 years ago a lot of people lived in an urban environment, and went to their butchers.

Was watching Reeling in the Years a while back and they were doing some year in the late sixties or early seventies and I was surprised to see a statistic that said something like 60 or 70% of the people living in Ireland lived on a farm at the time.

As for the "Traditional" debate, it's obvious at this stage that it's a very difficult thing to quantify. Even the people that claim that they make a "Traditional Irish Stew" have shown that even their version is a variation on the original, whatever that is!

Minder · 30-01-2008 4:04pm

Intensive farming of beef leading to significantly reduced prices for beef is relatively new. Lamb or mutton prices have always been cheaper if the same cuts are compared.

qwertyphobia · 30-01-2008 4:24pm

Another vote for sheep over beef here. I am suprissed people are even debating it. I think only one person has mentioned barley being added, I would have said thats a key feature of an Irish stew.

So where do people find mutton in Dublin to buy?

Mr. Presentable · 30-01-2008 5:12pm

Ballymaloe Irish Stew
Ingredients
2-1/2 to 3 lbs (1.35kg) lamb chops (gigot or rack chops) not less than 1 inch (2.5cm) thick
8 medium or 12 baby carrots
8 medium or 12 baby onions
8 to 12 potatoes, or more if you like
salt and freshly ground pepper
1-1/4 to1-1/2 pints (750 ml-900 ml/3-33/4 cups) stock (lamb stock if possible) or water
1 sprig of thyme
1 Tbsp roux, optional - see recipe
Garnish
1 Tbsp freshly chopped parsley
1 Tbsp freshly chopped chives

Roux
4 ozs butter
4 ozs flour

Instructions
Preheat the oven to 180C/350F/regulo 4. Cut the chops in half and trim off some of the excess fat. Set aside. Render down the fat on a gentle heat in a heavy pan (discard the rendered down pieces).

Peel the onions and scrape or thinly peel the carrots (if they are young you could leave some of the green stalk on the onion and carrot). Cut the carrots into large chunks, or if they are small leave them whole. If the onions are large, cut them into quarters through the root, if they are small they are best left whole.

Toss the meat in the hot fat on the pan until it is slightly brown. Transfer the meat into a casserole, then quickly toss the onions and carrots in the fat. Build the meat, carrots and onions up in layers in the casserole, carefully season each layer with freshly ground pepper and salt. De-glaze the pan with lamb stock and pour into the casserole. Peel the potatoes and lay them on top of the casserole, so they will steam while the stew cooks. Season the potatoes. Add a sprig of thyme, bring to the boil on top of the stove, cover with a butter wrapper or paper lid and the lid of the saucepan. Transfer to a moderate oven or allow to simmer on top of the stove until the stew is cooked, 1 to 1-1/2 hours approx, depending on whether the stew is being made with lamb or hogget.

When the stew is cooked, pour off the cooking liquid, de-grease and reheat in another saucepan. Slightly thicken by whisking in a little roux if you like. Check seasoning, then add chopped parsley and chives. Pour over the meat and vegetables. Bring the stew back up to boiling point and serve from the pot or in a large pottery dish.

Melt the butter and cook the flour in it for 2 minutes on a low heat, stirring occasionally. Use as required. Roux can be stored in a cool place and used as required or it can be made up on the spot if preferred. It will keep at least a fortnight in a refrigerator.

P. Breathnach · 18-02-2008 12:51am

I make Irish stew for visitors, and use lamb. But I want to make it with mutton! That's the real deal. So I ask the same question as qwertphobia: where can I buy mutton?

I'm in the north-east, but am in Dublin often enough, and would happily buy it there.

Maybe I should go to Wicklow and look for roadkill.

And I plan to include carrots.

Beerlao · 19-02-2008 5:09pm

i'm not saying what is right and what is wrong, all i'm going to say is... the only places i've ever had lamb in stew have been in pubs and restaurants... any time i've had it at my house or someone else's it's always been beef.

still no word of that pizza recipe though!!

LINKY.V.18 · 20-02-2008 3:08pm

First of all it must be sheep, lamb or mutton, it doesn't matter these days too much (you'd swear they were two different animals they way some have argued).
There are two types of stews, white or brown. If you brown your meat and add red wine and brown stock that's referred to as a brown stew and its wrong. In traditional Irish stew the lamb (or mutton) is just added to water with onions, salt/pepper and some lamb bone. Then the potatoes bit: some are chopped very finely and others are left whole. The small pieces will disintegrate during the long slow cooking and thicken the liquid (this is crucial). Anything beyond that is just adding on. Although if I was making it myself I would put in carrots and celery cause they make it better and some herbs too. But its unnecessary. Thats it, end of discussion. :cool:

P. Breathnach · 21-02-2008 12:42am

LINKY.V.18 wrote: »

First of all it must be sheep, lamb or mutton, it doesn't matter these days too much (you'd swear they were two different animals they way some have argued).... But its unnecessary. Thats it, end of discussion.

No, it's not the end of the discussion. Mutton and lamb are so different that they might as well be different animals.

Spastafarian · 21-02-2008 5:46am

Here's my fantastically brilliant traditional irish stew recipe.
Remember: NO GARLIC!! A stew with garlic is not Irish Stew. It's some french nonsense.

Anyway;

Ingredients

Big hunks of lamb
1 big onion
2 - 3 peeled carrots
2 - 3 big peeled spuds
1 small turnip
1 stick of celery
small bunch of thyme
1/2 a small can of Guinness
1 - 1 and a 1/2 pints of good non-salty beef buillion

Method

Fry the lamb hunks in a bit of oil and a bit of butter in a big pot until browned. Take out and set aside.
Cut the onion in half, dice one half kinda finely and chop the other half roughly. Fry with chopped celery until golden.
Add the lamb and fry for a bit.
Add the Guinness and cook until you can't smell the booze anymore. Don't add to much or the stew will end up tasting like cigarettes.
Add most of the stock, tie up the bunch of thyme and place it on top.
Stew gently for about 45 minutes and take out the thyme.
Stew for another hour and a half to 2 hours.
Cut the spuds in quarters and cut the carrots in big chunks, cut the turnip in smallish chunks.
Add the veg and more stock if needed, stew gently until it's all well cooked.
Season with salt and pepper and serve with some buttery soda bread and a pint of Guinness.

Tragedy · 21-02-2008 6:40am

Whats irish stew with beef called?

My mum uses a recipe that her grandmother used(circa late 1800's) and its beef all the way, dont think i've ever had irish stew so.

P. Breathnach · 21-02-2008 11:19am

Tragedy wrote: »

Whats irish stew with beef called?

I call it beef stew or brown stew. It's Irish stew only as a geographic fact, not as a culinary fact.

Spastafarian · 21-02-2008 10:51pm

Tragedy wrote: »

Whats irish stew with beef called?

Lancashire hotpot.

dSTAR · 27-11-2008 9:50am

Just pointed in the direction of this thread.

Plenty of food for thought. The Ballymaloe Irish Stew sounds delish.

Now to impress my Aussie girlfriend

:pac:

Red Sleeping Beauty · 30-11-2008 4:47am

My Ma's recipe seems to be very un-traditional. She uses some kidney soup I think. Of the knorr or Erin variety. She puts barley and some herbs in and uses mince meat balls, carrots and of course spuds.

Has anyone any idea how old the Guinness going into stew would be ? I assume it was a luxury in the old country ?

kerash · 01-12-2008 3:44am

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

My Ma's recipe seems to be very un-traditional. She uses some kidney soup I think. Of the knorr or Erin variety. She puts barley and some herbs in and uses mince meat balls, carrots and of course spuds.

Has anyone any idea how old the Guinness going into stew would be ? I assume it was a luxury in the old country ?

I have to say I'm intrigued by the kidney soup?

Moving on - ah the old debate, I think we've concluded that sheep is associated with Irish stew, but we've all made the old beef stew and enjoyed it. Your ma's recipe sounds nice, but I'm not so keen on barley but I'm lead to believe that is traditional, but not often used imo. Mince meat balls - what kind of meat? beef I'll presume.
I dont know about the Guinness, but I'd guess that it wouldn't have been used too often back in the day? I've never had an Irish stew with Guinness in it either.

Red Sleeping Beauty · 01-12-2008 3:47am

Yeah , she just uses some Knorr soup of some kind, I think it varies as the consistency is different. It would be beef mince yeah and she only puts one whole onion in the pressure cooker with the rest of it and then takes it out before serving.

kerash · 01-12-2008 3:52am

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

Yeah , she just uses some Knorr soup of some kind, I think it varies as the consistency is different. It would be beef mince yeah and she only puts one whole onion in the pressure cooker with the rest of it and then takes it out before serving.

Hmm, I shall have to investigate - I've had oxtail but I'm ignorant to the kidney:D
If it's beef its not 'traditional' Irish (imo), but it sounds like a tasty dinner! Is this a handed down recipe or...

Red Sleeping Beauty · 01-12-2008 3:55am

YEah I think it's how her ma or her sister would've done it. I've never had it with anything else actually so I always assumed (wrongly obv) that her way was the only way. It could do with onions but as kids we wouldn't eat the onions I think so out the onions went. I think it's a beef kidney soup, she may have used oxtail as well actually.

Alun · 01-12-2008 12:57pm

Tragedy wrote:

Whats irish stew with beef called?

Spastafarian wrote: »

Lancashire hotpot.

Not really ... there's the same degree of controversy surrounding the meat used in a Lancashire hotpot, with the purists coming out on the side of lamb/mutton. It also originally contained oysters apparently until they became a delicacy rather than food for the common man. It's cooked somewhat differently too with sliced potatoes placed over the top of the meat and veg, and in some places at least, served with an accompaniment of pickled red cabbage.

themadchef · 01-12-2008 1:11pm

53 posts on Irish stew

Got a pot of it slow cooking as we speak.

Will be nice today, but like a good curry, much nicer tomorrow.

Personally, i like shoulder mutton, or lamb. People go on about it being tough, Look, cook the bejazus out of it. Thats why it's called slow cooking. It should melt in your mouth, no teeth required

I browned off the lamb, added oions, leeks, tiny bit of celery, and carrots. Oddly i use chicken boulion (stock), it's a personal choice. Cover with boiling water, lid on and cook slowly for 2 hours. I then add big peeled potatoes (shed loads) and cook for a further hour. The starch in the potatoes will thicken the stew as they cook and some dissolve. Season midway to taste and job done all in one pot.

God but it smells lovely

meditraitor · 01-12-2008 1:30pm

themadchef wrote: »

53 posts on Irish stew

Got a pot of it slow cooking as we speak.

Will be nice today, but like a good curry, much nicer tomorrow.

Personally, i like shoulder mutton, or lamb. People go on about it being tough, Look, cook the bejazus out of it. Thats why it's called slow cooking. It should melt in your mouth, no teeth required

I browned off the lamb, added oions, leeks, tiny bit of celery, and carrots. Oddly i use chicken boulion (stock), it's a personal choice. Cover with boiling water, lid on and cook slowly for 2 hours. I then add big peeled potatoes (shed loads) and cook for a further hour. The starch in the potatoes will thicken the stew as they cook and some dissolve. Season midway to taste and job done all in one pot.

God but it smells lovely

Sounds lovely but traditionally the meat was not browned.... :P

themadchef · 01-12-2008 4:19pm

meditraitor wrote: »

Sounds lovely but traditionally the meat was not browned.... :P

Indeed, personal choice. I know its a white stew so some people would argue there should be no carrots i it either.... but ive seen people thicken it with bisto.. :eek:.

Proper Irish Stew

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