Vasectomised bull

dungfly · 19-04-2014 11:11am #1

I want to use an on farm dry stock (limousin) vasectomised bull with a chin ball harness for the maiden heifers inthe dairy herd. Thinking of picking a light bull which I may use next year also. Once vasectomised, how long do I have to wait before I can introduce the bull to the herd? I have heard that he will need time for his sperm to die off.

onyerbikepat · 19-04-2014 2:08pm

6 Weeks. I've had 2 vasectomised bulls in the past.

dungfly · 19-04-2014 10:59pm

is a good idea to use the cheapest bull possible as a vasectimised bull possible such as a jersey bull? or is this just introducing disease into a F-H herd? what about using multiple cheapvasectimised to compete against each other one after the other.

onyerbikepat · 19-04-2014 11:28pm

Ideally use one of your own animals to keep out disease. Jerseys turn nasty from what I hear. How many heifers are you talking about. A yearling teaser should be able for 20 or so, I'd say.

dungfly · 20-04-2014 9:32am

about 25 this year. when selecting a teaser bull from your own herd what type bull do you select ?

mahoney_j · 20-04-2014 10:32am

Def don't pick a jersey as they become wicked aggressive little fookers,I usually just keep the last 2 freisan or angus bulls from my own herd .less disease risk

frazzledhome · 20-04-2014 10:36am

mahoney_j wrote: »

Def don't pick a jersey as they become wicked aggressive little fookers,I usually just keep the last 2 freisan or angus bulls from my own herd .less disease risk

Totally agree, angry, nasty little bastards. They will always look for an opportunity to get you. Stay 100 miles away from Jersey bull.

When Spring Show was on years ago they were the only breed where it was compulsory to have 2 handlers

Greengrass1 · 20-04-2014 10:37am

Have a je teaser here. Brilliant lad. And very quite. He won't let you pet him but he knows who's boss and keeps quite.
I won't let him with cows for another 3 weeks because he will be wore out with all the activity.
Have 4 jex calves kept this year for the job.
My opinion is, first year put them with heifers as there young and heifers will boss them around.
Next year put with cows because cows will control him then.
Get rid after that season.

frazzledhome · 20-04-2014 10:38am

Too late to vaso bull at this stage for heifers as you'll need to hold him for 6 weeks.

Kmar, ai for 7 days, pg remainder and kmar with ai for repeats.

frazzledhome · 20-04-2014 10:40am

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Have a je teaser here. Brilliant lad. And very quite. He won't let you pet him but he knows who's boss and keeps quite.
I won't let him with cows for another 3 weeks because he will be wore out with all the activity.
Have 4 jex calves kept this year for the job.
My opinion is, first year put them with heifers as there young and heifers will boss them around.
Next year put with cows because cows will control him then.
Get rid after that season.

I put Jersey bulls, pet tigers and bank managers in the same category, they will all turn on you at some stage!

onyerbikepat · 20-04-2014 11:09am

For a suckler herd, I'd keep a weanling that didn't reach full potention, say a late heifers calf that didn't have much milk. That way you'll have a good animal to send to the factory when finished with. I always kept mine for 2 seasons. In the first season, it can be hard to spot standing heat, as the bull starts to mount from maybe 2 days ahead. Second season, he will 'shadow' the cow more and so easier to tell.

Brown Podzol · 20-04-2014 11:11am

Put vas bull with the heifers yesterday, he must be gay, two bulling this morning and no interest.The vet used a new method this year, snip one side and burdizzo on the other, maybe that's the problem.

onyerbikepat · 20-04-2014 11:12am

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Put vas bull with the heifers yesterday, he must be gay, two bulling this morning and no interest.The vet used a new method this year, snip one side and burdizzo on the other, maybe that's the problem.

Never heard of that. Shur if he's sore, he'd hardly be jumping around.

Brown Podzol · 20-04-2014 11:15am

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Never heard of that. Shur if he's sore, he'd hardly be jumping around.

Vet said it works fine, still plenty of hormones and less risk of infection. I would have preferred snip on both sides.

dungfly · 20-04-2014 10:17pm

thinking of using a young tease bull from my own herd but want to make sure that he is disease free especially of transferable diseases. what approach should i take here? oh and if a tease bull is related to the cows i presume this makes no difference ?
or am i missing something ?

satstheway · 21-04-2014 11:05am

Is a squeezed bullock any good as a teaser.

onyerbikepat · 21-04-2014 11:24am

satstheway wrote: »

Is a squeezed bullock any good as a teaser.

Better than other cows and heifers I think, but nowhere near as good as a full bull, which a teaser bull still is.

frazzledhome · 21-04-2014 3:00pm

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Put vas bull with the heifers yesterday, he must be gay, two bulling this morning and no interest.The vet used a new method this year, snip one side and burdizzo on the other, maybe that's the problem.

Could the heifers be gay?

Brown Podzol · 21-04-2014 9:45pm

A distinct possibility, judging by the carry on today. Ah maybe he'll get into this group thing.

dungfly · 22-04-2014 12:50pm

Thinking of using a yearling teaser with the maiden heifers and a two year old with the cows. If I hold onto one bull each year then this should provide a steady supply of teaser bulls.

Genghis Cant · 22-04-2014 1:12pm

dungfly wrote: »

oh and if a tease bull is related to the cows i presume this makes no difference ?
or am i missing something ?

Once he can't get a calf it'll make no difference.

Genghis Cant · 22-04-2014 1:14pm

satstheway wrote: »

Is a squeezed bullock any good as a teaser.

If ya get the right one its a great job. He'll shadow them an all for ya.
Others couldn't care less.

bogman_bass · 22-04-2014 3:45pm

if you have 4 or 5 bullocks running with them like i do you'll have the cows well marked when they come bulling

dungfly · 22-04-2014 4:00pm

bogman_bass wrote: »

if you have 4 or 5 bullocks running with them like i do you'll have the cows well marked when they come bulling

Do you run multiple teaser bulls at the same time or do you rotate them?

dungfly · 22-04-2014 4:04pm

Genghis Cant wrote: »

If ya get the right one its a great job. He'll shadow them an all for ya.
Others couldn't care less.

Please clarify?

bogman_bass · 22-04-2014 4:16pm

dungfly wrote: »

Do you run multiple teaser bulls at the same time or do you rotate them?

I dont run any teasers. Just graze 3 or 4 bullocks with the cows. No fighting and no rotation necessary

Genghis Cant · 22-04-2014 5:35pm

dungfly wrote: »

Please clarify?

What I'm trying to say is some bullocks will act nearly as good as a teaser, and others are pure useless. If you do as Bogman suggests you're sure to find a couple who'll do the job for ya!

dungfly · 22-04-2014 7:51pm

Genghis Cant wrote: »

What I'm trying to say is some bullocks will act nearly as good as a teaser, and others are pure useless. If you do as Bogman suggests you're sure to find a couple who'll do the job for ya!

What age bullock do yet run with the cows and maiden heifers? Once you find a good one what then ? Is these not a substantial abort associated with the using so many animals for heat detection ?

Genghis Cant · 22-04-2014 8:03pm

dungfly wrote: »

What age bullock do yet run with the cows and maiden heifers? Once you find a good one what then ? Is these not a substantial abort associated with the using so many animals for heat detection ?

Since we run our own bull now we don't require the services of a bullock anymore.
But when we were 100% AI, or had cows on an outfarm we would run a bullock with the cows. I never worried too much about his age, it would usually be a lad around 18mths, but more importantly it would be a lad that had shown some interest in the job.
At that time we used keep bullocks, nowadays we sell most bulls entire and keep all heifers to beef.

I never felt there were an increased risk of incurring problems, like the bull, the bullock would only be ran with the cows for a defined breeding season.

dungfly · 05-05-2016 3:45am

Does anyone run multiple vasectomised Bulls with heifers or cows? What way do you do it? Do you rotate them or just let them at it? Does it work? Is it good for competition?

Sam Kade · 05-05-2016 10:28am

dungfly wrote: »

Does anyone run multiple vasectomised Bulls with heifers or cows? What way do you do it? Do you rotate them or just let them at it? Does it work? Is it good for competition?

They would turn on each other, if you had two you could let one out during the day and the other at night.

kevinm177 · 05-05-2016 1:50pm

Always run two together here. They are reared together since calves so never had a problem with them turning on each other. The competition seems to be a good thing

dungfly · 05-05-2016 10:27pm

kevinm177 wrote: »

Always run two together here. They are reared together since calves so never had a problem with them turning on each other. The competition seems to be a good thing

I am very interested in your setup as I have not seen anyone using groups of teasers yet I have trailed them successfully over short periods. Can you elaborate? What breeds? ratio of Bulls to cows/heifers? When do you introduce the Bulls I.e pre breeding or at breeding or 3 weeks into breeding? Do you have two teasers with each group of cows and maiden heifers? In what way is it good for competition? Is there a chance that two teasers will exhaust a single animal in heat I.e. Too much sex? :eek: how long do you keep the Bulls with the cows & heifers? Do you use a chin ball harness, tail paint and scratchers or do you use only teasers? How long have you been using them and how dou you rate success?

kevinm177 · 06-05-2016 6:30am

dungfly wrote: »

I am very interested in your setup as I have not seen anyone using groups of teasers yet I have trailed them successfully over short periods. Can you elaborate? What breeds? ratio of Bulls to cows/heifers? When do you introduce the Bulls I.e pre breeding or at breeding or 3 weeks into breeding? Do you have two teasers with each group of cows and maiden heifers? In what way is it good for competition? Is there a chance that two teasers will exhaust a single animal in heat I.e. Too much sex? :eek: how long do you keep the Bulls with the cows & heifers? Do you use a chin ball harness, tail paint and scratchers or do you use only teasers? How long have you been using them and how dou you rate success?

Keep two strong Feb born freisins every year. Two months before breeding I get them vacectomised and they go out to grass. Start of breeding I let them with the 30 maiden heifers for three weeks. I tail paint the heifers and put chin ball with two differant colours on the Bulls. I find they keep each other going by having two together.

After 3 weeks with heifers they get a break for a few weeks until the cows start quietening down which is usually around week 5 or 6 and then they are let off with 120 cows until end of breeding.

I don't bother tail painting the cows after that the Bulls do a good job with the chin ball.

Some people keep the Bulls for a second year but I just move them on as soon as I'm finished with them

dungfly · 07-05-2016 1:51am

Sounds like a great system you have there. I suppose the young bulls are less prone to injury and are safer. Does this system provide you with compact Calving? Are the young bulls able to keep up with the pace? How many cows/ heifers come bulling per day at peak? Would you recommend this approach? Any possible issues or improvements?

kevinm177 · 07-05-2016 9:40am

dungfly wrote: »

Sounds like a great system you have there. I suppose the young bulls are less prone to injury and are safer. Does this system provide you with compact Calving? Are the young bulls able to keep up with the pace? How many cows/ heifers come bulling per day at peak? Would you recommend this approach? Any possible issues or improvements?

Very happy with the way it's working. Calving interval was361 days last year with 10% empty rate after 12 weeks.
Most animals they have to deal with would be 2 or 3 any day so not under pressure.
As I said before some people prefer a 2 or 3 year old bull for the cows but I never did this so maybe someone else could advise you on that. I find when the Bulls are too small to actually bull the cow they stay after them for hrs and really mark them. I'd be afraid of a bigger bull just givin her a shot and then head off for a "smoke" and lie down

Sam Kade · 07-05-2016 7:42pm

Some crazy prices for vacaectomised fr Bulls on done deal, €1100 for a year and a half. They are only worth bullock prices plus the cost of the vacaectomy 7-800 max.

whelan2 · 07-05-2016 8:00pm

Sam Kade wrote: »

Some crazy prices for vacaectomised fr Bulls on done deal, €1100 for a year and a half. They are only worth bullock prices plus the cost of the vacaectomy 7-800 max.

As I said before asking and getting are 2 different things

stretch film · 07-05-2016 8:07pm

Here's one of my lads with chinball on .Autumn born so will sell fattened just before 2 to. I use blue ink as its best on either air colour.
Scratch card and bull option best when syncro heifers.

kevinm177 · 08-05-2016 8:21am

stretch film wrote: »

Here's one of my lads with chinball on .Autumn born so will sell fattened just before 2 to. I use blue ink as its best on either air colour.
Scratch card and bull option best when syncro heifers.

One of my lady's ready for ai. Big differance in the marking

dungfly · 08-05-2016 10:44pm

stretch film wrote: »

Scratch card and bull option best when syncro heifers.

Kevin what do you mean here? In what order do you use them I.e. Do you introduce the Bulls pre breeding and do you have Bulls with them during syncing?

Vasectomised bull

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