General gaming discussion

CatInABox · 16-04-2019 4:34pm

Good news on the Backward Compatibility and the SSD, but the rest has a bunch of caveats, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Ray tracing support is great, but I can't imagine any console built in the next few years being able to handle the current versions of ray tracing, it's just too difficult to process. It's possible that they'll have some kind of shortcut to do it, like the way the PS4 Pro uses checkerboarding to get a "fauxK" image. (Just FYI, not complaining about it, the image quality on PS4 Pro is near indistinguishable from Xbox One X in motion, and wish it was an option in more Xbox One X games to boost framerate)

The 8K support thing is also great, but I'd find it hard to believe that it'll be native, or that it'll be on all games. The predicted leap in processing power just isn't there.

Also interesting that they're releasing this info on the day that Microsoft are rumoured to be announcing the new all digital Xbox One, and combined Game Pass and Live service. Talk about keeping Microsoft under their heel. Competition is just feckin great.

Retr0gamer · 16-04-2019 4:38pm

Perhaps Sony could develop a method of doing ray tracing at quarter resolution with a very advanced checkerboard or AI checkerboard denoising process?

I doubt games will be full ray traced renders, even PC games aren't there yet. Some systems like shadows, reflections or global illumination might be handled by it.

Penn · 16-04-2019 4:47pm

CatInABox · 16-04-2019 4:57pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Perhaps Sony could develop a method of doing ray tracing at quarter resolution with a very advanced checkerboard or AI checkerboard denoising process?

I doubt games will be full ray traced renders, even PC games aren't there yet. Some systems like shadows, reflections or global illumination might be handled by it.

Yeah, I'm thinking that it's along these lines. They don't have to get it good enough to satisfy those that are building their own high powered PCs, they just have to get it good enough to satisfy those that are already gaming on a console.

wotzgoingon · 16-04-2019 5:02pm

Personally that demo above of ray tracing looks unrealistic to real life. Completely overboard on reflections. As if everything is polished twice daily with a rotary brush and wax.

Mickeroo · 16-04-2019 5:04pm

Ray Bloody Tracing.

K.O.Kiki · 16-04-2019 5:06pm

CatInABox wrote: »

The 8K support thing is also great, but I'd find it hard to believe that it'll be native, or that it'll be on all games. The predicted leap in processing power just isn't there.

I can guarantee that there will be close-to-zero games with 8K.

It's literally 16x more pixels than 1080p, which would probably take 2 generations of GPU tech to bridge.

Penn wrote: »

Mr Crispy · 16-04-2019 5:10pm

Ray tracing can be used for audio too. So it might be part of their 3D audio solution.

Cordell · 16-04-2019 5:13pm

Varik wrote: »

Caustic Graphics/Imagination Tech have a google.

That's in the mobile GPU space.

Retr0gamer · 16-04-2019 5:27pm

Yeah I can see the first batch of ray traced games going overboard on reflections. Same thing as with the ugly quake 2 era coloured lighting, lens flare and the start of last gen when devs got trigger happy with shaders and every surface had over the top specular highlights and everything looked coated in baby oil.

16-04-2019 5:47pm

Bring back the Bloom!

Varik · 16-04-2019 5:52pm

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

Ray tracing can be used for audio too. So it might be part of their 3D audio solution.

AI pathfinding, collisions & reaction, object clashing, cloth and layers.

gizmo · 16-04-2019 6:05pm

Thus begins the great conflation of ray casting and ray tracing. :pac:

EDIT: Eurogamer's interview with Amy Hennig just went live...

The big Amy Hennig interview

Potential-Monke · 16-04-2019 7:10pm

Did a ctrl+f with that, no talk about Soul Reaver, not interested! God damn it Amy, get it done!

K.O.Kiki · 16-04-2019 8:11pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Yeah I can see the first batch of ray traced games going overboard on reflections. Same thing as with the ugly quake 2 era coloured lighting, lens flare and the start of last gen when devs got trigger happy with shaders and every surface had over the top specular highlights and everything looked coated in baby oil.

Ironically enough, Nvidia are using Quake 2 for RT demos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRCAfdBMe2Y

Robert ninja · 17-04-2019 4:12am

Really good article about the whole PC v Console debate. https://www.exclusivelygames.com/pc-vs-console-why-pc-exclusives-are-good-and-console-exclusives-are-bad/ Misses a mark by not mentioning that Consoles are usually bought out of convenience & cheap entry cost.

Retr0gamer · 17-04-2019 9:32am

Ninja Gaiden 2 is now backwards compatible on Xbox One. MWAH!

Really good article about the whole PC v Console debate. https://www.exclusivelygames.com/pc-...sives-are-bad/ Misses a mark by not mentioning that Consoles are usually bought out of convenience & cheap entry cost.

This console generation I feel is totally skippable if you own a PC. There's just not a whole lot to separate them from the PC which has it's own range of exclusives and offers better experiences for cheaper prices. The range of exclusives has been quite small and I've been disappointed by most of them, even a lot of critically acclaimed ones.

Varik · 17-04-2019 9:55am

Wouldn't call that a good article. Just repeats the same old thing.

Console exclusives are a completely different beast; they exist to drum up artificial demand for hardware that could otherwise not stand on its own two feet.

It's the multiplatform games that keep consoles going between exclusives with sales numbers that eclipse the PC version. Ignores the fact that as system sellers the console manufacturers have a secondary revenue source and a chance for future revenue due to those new sales. PS3 is a great example, how many first party 1-3m games did Sony push out, if they weren't acting as prestige piece to add another reason to buy.

SomeSayKos · 17-04-2019 11:03am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

This console generation I feel is totally skippable if you own a PC. There's just not a whole lot to separate them from the PC which has it's own range of exclusives and offers better experiences for cheaper prices. The range of exclusives has been quite small and I've been disappointed by most of them, even a lot of critically acclaimed ones.

I dunno. Sony had a lot of good stuff this generation. I could list off some games, but i think 'Bloodborne' sums it all up

Jerichoholic · 17-04-2019 11:09am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Ninja Gaiden 2 is now backwards compatible on Xbox One. MWAH!

This console generation I feel is totally skippable if you own a PC. There's just not a whole lot to separate them from the PC which has it's own range of exclusives and offers better experiences for cheaper prices. The range of exclusives has been quite small and I've been disappointed by most of them, even a lot of critically acclaimed ones.

I wouldn't agree with that at all. Each console has their own exclusives that far too good to be missing out on. There's a lot more appearing on PC than ever before but you're not playing Red Dead or Mario Odyssey on PC.

TerrorFirmer · 17-04-2019 11:38am

Obviously it depends on taste but broadly speaking the PS4 has had some solid 'must have' exclusives this gen. XB1....a few, but far less. Now that Halo is coming to PC I've lost all interest in the Xbox. I had all 3 and the Switch but now I just have the PS4 and PC.

TitianGerm · 17-04-2019 11:48am

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Obviously it depends on taste but broadly speaking the PS4 has had some solid 'must have' exclusives this gen. XB1....a few, but far less. Now that Halo is coming to PC I've lost all interest in the Xbox. I had all 3 and the Switch but now I just have the PS4 and PC.

Microsoft have taken on a good few studios in the last few years so I'd expect them to have a few new IPs early in the next consoles life.

Not sure if they'll be console exclusive though seeing as they pushed for Cuphead to be on Switch so we might see future releases between the two companies.

johnny_ultimate · 17-04-2019 12:00pm

My philosophy: play what you want, how you want, and - this is often important - based on what you can afford. Never be arrogant enough to assume what works for you in terms of ‘consumer box to play video games’ will be the same for everybody else. I play games across PC, Switch and PS4 - that’s ideal for me and I fully recognise the benefits and limits of each. But think someone playing, say, PS4 or XB1 only for whatever reason will still have a pretty great range of games to pick from at any given time.

Retr0gamer · 17-04-2019 12:18pm

True, the price of entry for a PC is much less than for a console but I find consoles now are far more complicated than they used to be and their ease of use has gotten much worse. The PS4 and Xbox One just don't feel essential to me. The Switch on the other hand does enough by offering a different way to play games and worthwhile exclusives. The Xbox, everything is on PC while I don't feel many Sony exclusives have been let downs and they haven't been supplemented with third party exclusives like in previous generations. There's good stuff like Bloodbourne, but some highly rated games like Red Dead 2 I found to be way over rated and it would be madness if that game is kept to consoles only.

The lower cost entry and perceived ease of use seems to be their only real advantage but it's a bit of a fallacy once you add subscriptions and higher game prices to the mix.

I don't think it's more so PC is better, it's more that the PS4, One are just consumer boxes to play games rather than having any individuality. And PC could be in the same boat but it offers so much more functionality outside of gaming.

EoinHef · 17-04-2019 12:30pm

Price of entry for PC is not much less.

Spec up a build there retro that will play modern games for cheaper than €400

Also if one can install windows,the various things that a console wants should be no mystery so id say ease of use being difficult on console is non sense.

Penn · 17-04-2019 12:32pm

I think it's that each simply offers differences the others don't, and it comes down to which differences you value over the others. There just isn't a right or wrong choice between the various consoles and PC, there's only the choice of the individual. There are features/games/other advantages on Xbox One, PC and Switch that I'd love on the PS4, but the PS4 is the console which ticks the most boxes for me. If I wanted some of those other features etc badly enough, I could move to the platform that provides it so long as it didn't mean I'd be losing a greater amount of the features etc I had on PS4. Or I could have more than one console/PC provided the cost was justified.

It's personal preference. Each have their own advantages/disadvantages/exclusives/features... Which one provides the greatest benefit to each individual is the right choice for them.

TitianGerm · 17-04-2019 12:42pm

EoinHef wrote: »

Price of entry for PC is not much less.

Spec up a build there retro that will play modern games for cheaper than €400

Also if one can install windows,the various things that a console wants should be no mystery so id say ease of use being difficult on console is non sense.

You won't build a PC to match a PS4 Pro or X for €400 (which both are regularly available for and even cheaper on occasion) and you've no hope of getting down to €250 that the S and regular PS4 sell for using new parts.

Spend a bit more on a PC and you'll be set for a long time though with an easy enough upgrade path that "may" not break the bank. I'm very happy with my PC and find myself using it the most now for my gaming when I actually get a bit of free time.

Retr0gamer · 17-04-2019 12:43pm

I meant cost of entry for PC is more than console. not sure why I typed it as less???

I guess I just find the One and PS4... boring.

But then it's that boring design that is where these machines need to go to keep cost down for manufacture and for developers.

EoinHef · 17-04-2019 12:51pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I meant cost of entry for PC is more than console. not sure why I typed it as less???

I guess I just find the One and PS4... boring.

But then it's that boring design that is where these machines need to go to keep cost down for manufacture and for developers.

Ah ok,i was wondering.

Givin there price points,consoles are mostly all they can be. My PS4 sees a decent amount of use just because my IRL friends play there exclusively. If im happy to play something solo or with randoms ill buy those games on PC

Cordell · 17-04-2019 1:30pm

Consoles are more that they can be at the price point. If they are not a loss leader (but I suspect they are) they are sold at a break-even price.

Greyfox · 17-04-2019 5:17pm

Personally I have no interest in PC gaming as in my opinion all the best games are on consoles now. Each to there own though, it's just that the games I love are on the PS4 or switch, I accept other people will want pc exclusives. Also this is the first generation where if you have a great phone you don't actually need a PC for basic stuff. An advantage the PC always had was you needed to have a PC anyway but using your phone for emails, YouTube, browsing web pages etc is now satisfactory. Even buying online you can do on your phone, I just find that for the first time ever owning a PC is not essential to the average person

K.O.Kiki · 17-04-2019 6:18pm

Greyfox wrote: »

Personally I have no interest in PC gaming as in my opinion all the best games are on consoles now. Each to there own though, it's just that the games I love are on the PS4 or switch, I accept other people will want pc exclusives. Also this is the first generation where if you have a great phone you don't actually need a PC for basic stuff. An advantage the PC always had was you needed to have a PC anyway but using your phone for emails, YouTube, browsing web pages etc is now satisfactory. Even buying online you can do on your phone, I just find that for the first time ever owning a PC is not essential to the average person

I was a console fanboy for the longest period until I actually got into PC gaming, don't think I can ever go back tbh.

Not only are FPS games better to control, but one thing I love is being able to mod games (even if just a bit) to better suit you.

E.g. I want to replay Final Fantasy IX.
My options are:

Use my old PS1 discs
Buy the Android-port on console
Buy the Android-port on PC but mod it to look even better than the original

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOu4ZcDXhdE

That said, the Switch is a console I'd love to buy if only I could fit it into my life & budget; it offers something Xbox/Playstation doesn't.

Greyfox · 18-04-2019 8:38am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Not only are FPS games better to control, but one thing I love is being able to mod games (even if just a bit) to better suit you.

I'll give you modding games as a good reason. I own the PS4 remaster of Skyrim.. and the PC mods for that look cool

gizmo · 18-04-2019 8:40am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

That said, the Switch is a console I'd love to buy if only I could fit it into my life & budget; it offers something Xbox/Playstation doesn't.

Bayonetta 3?

18-04-2019 11:20am

World War Z actually looks like a lot of fun
Was thinking of picking it up but not many I know are getting it

TitianGerm · 18-04-2019 11:32am

Fred The Red wrote: »

World War Z actually looks like a lot of fun
Was thinking of picking it up but not many I know are getting it

It's the type of game that'll be stupidly cheap in two months. Hang on for the minute.

18-04-2019 12:17pm

Fred The Red wrote: »

World War Z actually looks like a lot of fun
Was thinking of picking it up but not many I know are getting it

Ditto.

Getting decent reviews.

Jordan 199 · 18-04-2019 2:49pm

So I finished playing the main storyline of Assassin's Creed Black Flag a few days ago. A beautiful game.

18-04-2019 3:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ditto.

Getting decent reviews.

TerrorFirmer · 18-04-2019 4:02pm

I really want to get WWZ now as well. Mad craving for a worthy Left4Dead style co-op experience, which this one genuinely appears to be. There's been a few games like it since but most were pretty unremarkable. Vermintide was pretty good but the fantasy/medieval setting wasn't quite what I was hankering after.

Forget Half Life 3....I seriously want a L4D3.

Potential-Monke · 18-04-2019 4:59pm

I think the era of zombies is all but dead. I've little to no interest in zombie games now, we've been too saturated with them. Only one I'm genuinely looking forward to is Dying Light 2, and that's more for the awesome gameplay (pretty good stories too). I hope we are heading towards a mech era, love me some robots!

Edit: After having watched the woeful Bumblebee the other night, the only good part was the first 15 minutes. Give me that game!

K.O.Kiki · 18-04-2019 5:44pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I think the era of zombies is all but dead. I've little to no interest in zombie games now, we've been too saturated with them. Only one I'm genuinely looking forward to is Dying Light 2, and that's more for the awesome gameplay (pretty good stories too). I hope we are heading towards a mech era, love me some robots!

Edit: After having watched the woeful Bumblebee the other night, the only good part was the first 15 minutes. Give me that game!

Counter-point: Resi 2 HD

Zero-Cool · 18-04-2019 10:19pm

Speaking of awesome zombie games, there is an ultimate Telltale TWD collection, all the games on one disk plus some nice collectibles. I want that Clem and Lee statue so bad but not for 200 to 300 quid. The rest of the items are ****. The Russian dolls are kinda cool but a hat that isn't even Clem's hat? WTF is that about.

https://twitter.com/TheWalkingDead/status/1118920154035843072?s=19

Grumpypants · 18-04-2019 10:48pm

I've picked up a few of these types of editions after launch for around €50, the shops struggle to keep them for long periods as they take up so much self space.

Doge · 19-04-2019 12:00am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Ray tracing claim is likely nonsense.

Anyway an Amiga can do ray tracing. Doesn't mean you can get good FPS out of it. Ray tracing at 1080p with a 2080 ti is pushing it. It will be a disaster if they are targeting 4k

Unless they have a software solution to fake it.

I posted this in the Racing Sims sub forum a while back, you probably didn't see the video yet:

Doge wrote: »

Saw this on Team VVV site, if the PS5 will be capable of this fidelity in VR it's going to look amazing. I suppose it would nicer they focussed on physics rather than graphics though....

Polyphony, the guys behind the Gran Turismo series, recently took to the stage at the SIGGRAPH Asia 2018 industry event (which showcases the latest in computer graphics and techniques) to reveal that they have been secretly working on their own version of real-time ray tracing.

Real-time ray tracing (which has been the stuff of dreams until the release of NVIDIA’s RTX 20-series) provides authentic looking shadows and reflections courtesy of the game engine tracing the rays of light as it bounces off the many different objects in a scene.

The (admittedly poor quality) video below, via wccftech, demonstrates the advanced lighting and reflections in what we can only assume to be a Gran Turismo Sport build of some sort, see for yourself below (starting at 7:25).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzvzELq13HI

OptimusTractor · 19-04-2019 4:32pm

On the PS5 I was looking up what 3D audio is and to me it's basically surround sound. Am I missing something?

Retr0gamer · 19-04-2019 5:47pm

More than likely it's positional sound using ray tracing.

FAILSAFE 00 · 20-04-2019 3:40pm

OptimusTractor wrote: »

On the PS5 I was looking up what 3D audio is and to me it's basically surround sound. Am I missing something?

Yes, their own version of 7.1 surround sound like Windows Sonic.

Jerichoholic · 20-04-2019 5:14pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

More than likely it's positional sound using ray tracing.

I think that's exactly what it is. Seems a very strange choice to be building a system around. Not sure many people would give a fiddlers about sound.

TetraxShard · 20-04-2019 6:02pm

Zero-Cool wrote: »

The Russian dolls are kinda cool but a hat that isn't even Clem's hat? WTF is that about.

Clem's hat is already sold on the Skybound Store.

https://store.skybound.com/products/the-walking-dead-clem-hat-1

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