Homeopathy; the new wallet inspector.

Losty Dublin · 23-01-2018 1:35am #1

So a friend of mine is into this in a big way, and is throwing away good over bad money at it for any old ache and pain. Fair enough, sometimes it may work and it isn't my cash and she's got big thingies so I'm saying nowt.

Anyway, today on her FB and she has an update that she's on crutches so I text her and she broke her lower leg. I commented that a friend was out for a year with something similar. Her response?

"Jaysus I don’t need to hear a story like that. I’m taking me Homeopathy and I’ll be back on two feet in 6 weeks!"

Seriously now. Are these Homeo quacks taking cash only to be telling people that their potions will actually heel broken legs and worse? And if so, any way that I can hop onto this gravy train and make a few € meself?

Ipso · 23-01-2018 1:39am

Wait until the dullards campaign to have it covered by the HSE, then you'll pay for it.
Complimentary Integrative Medicine will be the next one, real medicine does the work and the hippies take the credit.

c.p.w.g.w · 23-01-2018 1:39am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

So a friend of mine is into this in a big way, and is throwing away good over bad money at it for any old ache and pain. Fair enough, sometimes it may work and it isn't my cash and she's got big thingies so I'm saying nowt.

Anyway, today on her FB and she has an update that she's on crutches so I text her and she broke her lower leg. I commented that a friend was out for a year with something similar. Her response?

"Jaysus I don’t need to hear a story like that. I’m taking me Homeopathy and I’ll be back on two feet in 6 weeks!"

Seriously now. Are these Homeo quacks taking cash only to be telling people that their potions will actually heel broken legs and worse? And if so, any way that I can hop onto this gravy train and make a few € meself?

In the UK tax payers money is spent on this nonsense, think you can claim on some health insurances here too i believe

Mrs Shuttleworth · 23-01-2018 1:54am

Homeopathy cured me of a debilitating lung condition and the need to constantly take antibiotics and scheduled surgery when all other treatments failed.

Am eternally indebted and quietly laugh at the naysayers.

c.p.w.g.w · 23-01-2018 2:00am

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Homeopathy cured me of a debilitating lung condition and the need to constantly take antibiotics and scheduled surgery when all other treatments failed.

Am eternally indebted and quietly laugh at the naysayers.

Well if all you took was a homeopathy remedy,then all you took was water...The odds of there being anything other than water are so huge its actually laughable

https://youtu.be/c0Z7KeNCi7g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0Z7KeNCi7g

Doge · 23-01-2018 2:54am

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Well if all you took was a homeopathy remedy,then all you took was water...The odds of there being anything other than water are so huge its actually laughable

https://youtu.be/c0Z7KeNCi7g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0Z7KeNCi7g

You’re making a big assumption there. I know someone who went to see a private homeopath and what they’d received was highly concentrated levels of herbs like ginger etc.. in liquid bottles.

This stuff was so pungent tasting that if you added 20mls to a glass of orange juice , even a pint of it you could still taste it and it was disgusting. I know, I tried it once.
Needless to say she stopped with the “treatment” as she couldn’t handle the taste.

So there are “genuine” homeopaths out there who aren’t handing out blank placebo pills, and of course there are con artists who do sell placebos with nothing in them.

Of course the big debate is if the “genuine” Homeopaths are con artists too selling something not backed up by science.

But just because we watch a ted video we shouldn’t conclude ALL homoeopaths sell blank pils just because he found some on the market.

c.p.w.g.w · 23-01-2018 2:57am

Doge wrote: »

You’re making a big assumption there. I know someone who went to see a private homeopath and what they’d received was highly concentrated levels of herbs like ginger etc.. in liquid bottles.

This stuff was so pungent tasting that if you added 20mls to a glass of orange juice , even a pint of it you could still taste it and it was disgusting. I know, I tried it once.
Needless to say she stopped with the “treatment” as she couldn’t handle the taste.

So there are “genuine” homeopaths out there who aren’t handing out blank placebo pills, and of course there are con artists who do sell placebos with nothing in them.

Of course the big debate is if the “genuine” Homeopaths are con artists too selling something not backed up by science.

But just because we watch a ted video we shouldn’t conclude ALL homoeopaths sell blank pils just because he found some on the market.

Then They are a herbalist in that case...All Homeopaths are con artists by the very definition of the practice

Doge · 23-01-2018 3:10am

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Then They are a herbalist in that case...All Homeopaths are con artists by the very definition of the practice

Nope she was part of the Irish Society Of Homeopaths.
My friend was given their newsletter after the visit, it was a yellow and black booklet iirc, but this was a good few years back.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 23-01-2018 4:53am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

So a friend of mine is into this in a big way, and is throwing away good over bad money at it for any old ache and pain. Fair enough, sometimes it may work and it isn't my cash and she's got big thingies so I'm saying nowt.

Anyway, today on her FB and she has an update that she's on crutches so I text her and she broke her lower leg. I commented that a friend was out for a year with something similar. Her response?

"Jaysus I don’t need to hear a story like that. I’m taking me Homeopathy and I’ll be back on two feet in 6 weeks!"

Seriously now. Are these Homeo quacks taking cash only to be telling people that their potions will actually heel broken legs and worse? And if so, any way that I can hop onto this gravy train and make a few € meself?

Hang on - is she JUST using homeopathy, or is she using it alongside conventional medicine and treatments?

Peregrinus · 23-01-2018 5:08am

Doge wrote: »

Nope she was part of the Irish Society Of Homeopaths.

She may have been, but nevertheless concentrated extract of ginger is not a homeopathic remedy. Homeopathic preparations are made by repeated dilution, which is pretty much the opposite of concentration. Homeopathic dilution is pretty much the defining characteristic of homeopathic therapy.

_Dara_ · 23-01-2018 7:47am

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Homeopathy cured me of a debilitating lung condition and the need to constantly take antibiotics and scheduled surgery when all other treatments failed.

Am eternally indebted and quietly laugh at the naysayers.

What did the homeopathic treatment entail?

frag420 · 23-01-2018 7:53am

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Homeopathy cured me of a debilitating lung condition and the need to constantly take antibiotics and scheduled surgery when all other treatments failed.

Am eternally indebted and quietly laugh at the naysayers.

If they had cured your lungs fully you would be laughing heartily and louder at the naysayers!!

AndyBoBandy · 23-01-2018 7:59am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

"Jaysus I don’t need to hear a story like that. I’m taking me Homeopathy and I’ll be back on two feet in 6 weeks!"

Do report back in 6 weeks and let us know how she’s getting on with the broken leg.

It looks like Seamus Coleman missed a trick! But we might still be able to help James McCarthy.

tringle · 23-01-2018 8:05am

I've used homeopathy for me and my family for bruising, warts, mouth ulcers, back pain and travel sickness, recovery after c section (as advised by the mid wives) and root canal and it has worked in speeding up the recovery process. I don't think it will cure a broken leg, but as you said your friend in on crutches and I assume she had a cast so is only using homeopathy ro assist conventional medicine.

My dad thinks its all a load of rubbish and gives out to my mam.saying its all in her head. Her response is does it matter, even if she only "thinks" she is no longer in pain thats a great improvement.

I don't think.you would get rich through it, a vial of arnica only costs about €6 and I have mine over 18 months now.

Blackhorse Slim · 23-01-2018 8:08am

Down with all this homeophobia!

_Dara_ · 23-01-2018 8:09am

You’ve hit on it, tringle, it’s a placebo effect.

Cookie_Monster · 23-01-2018 8:10am

where's that Dara O'Brien sketch...

mfceiling · 23-01-2018 8:22am

I'll stick to the large, Swiss pharmaceutical companies if you don't mind OP.

GerryDerpy · 23-01-2018 8:29am

I never thought a literate person would believe homeopathy works.

_Dara_ · 23-01-2018 8:34am

GerryDerpy wrote: »

I never thought a literate person would believe homeopathy works.

Well, homeopaths prey on the desperate. Many people with serious, life-threatening or terminal ailments will try anything, the thought process being “How can it hurt?”. The danger comes when people abandon conventional medicine in favour of this snake oil.

evolving_doors · 23-01-2018 8:41am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

where's that Dara O'Brien sketch...

This might do the trick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg2CQqMaU1I

wonder do these folk drink homeopathic alcohol too?

ngunners · 23-01-2018 8:42am

I don't think.you would get rich through it, a vial of arnica only costs about €6 and I have mine over 18 months now.[/quote]

It's a multi-million dollar industry in France: http://edzardernst.com/2015/05/homeopathy-in-france-a-triumph-of-profit-over-reason/

Jawgap · 23-01-2018 8:48am

It's worth repeating, but I'll believe in homeopathy when I see "Homeopaths sans Frontieres" successfully contain and deal with an Ebola outbreak.

Jawgap · 23-01-2018 8:50am

ngunners wrote: »

I don't think.you would get rich through it, a vial of arnica only costs about €6 and I have mine over 18 months now.

It's a multi-million dollar industry in France: http://edzardernst.com/2015/05/homeopathy-in-france-a-triumph-of-profit-over-reason/[/QUOTE]

How can you make any money from homeopathy......surely the fúcktards who buy it know they never have to buy the treatment again, they just keep diluting it and diluting it......

......in fact maybe there's money to be made by buying one bottle of the stuff, diluting it a million fold and selling on the new conction;)

tringle · 23-01-2018 9:06am

_Dara_ wrote: »

You’ve hit on it, tringle, it’s a placebo effect.

And that may well be the case...but again if it works it works.

I certainly believe in mainstream medicine and if you have cancer, heart disease, infection then this is what you want but at times what you need is just to support your body to heal itself and all forms of complimentary therapies can help this including homeopathy, acupuncture and hypnotherapy.

Each to their own.

Jawgap · 23-01-2018 9:18am

tringle wrote: »

And that may well be the case...but again if it works it works.

I certainly believe in mainstream medicine and if you have cancer, heart disease, infection then this is what you want but at times what you need is just to support your body to heal itself and all forms of complimentary therapies can help this including homeopathy, acupuncture and hypnotherapy.

Each to their own.

Except it doesn't - the placebo effect is very hit and miss and won't work if you don't believe. I can be a sceptical as I want about anti-biotics and chemo-therapeutic drugs but it isn't going to effect their efficacy.

Also there's no such thing as 'mainstream medicine' (or alternative medicine) - there's just medicine.

nozzferrahhtoo · 23-01-2018 9:19am

Doge wrote: »

Nope she was part of the Irish Society Of Homeopaths.

That does not mean they only practice homeopathy however. A herbal "remedy" of ginger is not homeopathy. It is simply not what homeopathy means. That the person giving the herbal "remedy" happened to ALSO be a homeopatist charlatan and fraud, does not make the herbal remedy homeopathy.

It might help to explain some of the premises behind homeopathy. The first is the "Like cures like" premise. That is to say, the homepathists claim that if you have a symptom, that they need to treat you with something that CAUSES that symptom.

So if you are fainting a lot, the compound they will treat you with is anything that would generally CAUSE fainting. If you have trouble sleeping, a treatment might be caffeine for example. If you are having weird rashes, then maybe a solution of poison ivy would work.

Of course there would be ethical dilemmas were these people going around causing fainting or insomnia or rashes or pain and so forth. So they came up with lie number 2.......... dilution and cessation. The latter being important as mere dilution is not enough.

So basically they dilute the substance to a remarkable degree. So much in fact that one mathematician worked out that the size of a globe of water required to be 100% sure that one atom of the original treatment actually exists in it......... would be bigger than our solar system.

So whatever a concentrated ginger solution might be it is not homeopathy by any traditional definition I am aware of. It sounds like you merely have a charlatan of one kind doing a line of charlatanry of another kind. And why not. In for a financial penny in for a pound huh? One exploitation is as good as another.

nozzferrahhtoo · 23-01-2018 9:24am

Jawgap wrote: »

Except it doesn't - the placebo effect is very hit and miss and won't work if you don't believe. I can be a sceptical as I want about anti-biotics and chemo-therapeutic drugs but it isn't going to effect their efficacy.

Actually very surprisingly that is not true. It turns out a lot of placebo will work EVEN IF the person receiving it is told that it is a placebo that does nothing.

Of course it helps a lot if people believe in the efficacy of the placebo. But that placebo works even without belief is something that has been demonstrated.

Of course this also affects antibiotics and other drugs too. While such drugs do have a real world effect, unlike placebo, they ALSO have a placebo effect too. They do both. So in some ways your skepticism about a REAL drug actually CAN affect their efficacy.

What is also remarkable is the more invasive a placebo, or real drug, feels.... the greater the placebo effect. So a pill has a greater placebo effect than a spoonful medicine. An injection has a greater placebo effect than a pill. And so forth.

Placebo is one seriously interesting and baffling set of effects. Often very counter intuitive. I wish we knew a lot more about it than we do.

bucketybuck · 23-01-2018 9:27am

Doge wrote: »

Of course the big debate is if the “genuine” Homeopaths are con artists too selling something not backed up by science.

There is no debate.

_Dara_ wrote: »

Well, homeopaths prey on the desperate.

And the morons.

_Dara_ · 23-01-2018 9:36am

bucketybuck wrote: »

And the morons.

I’d never buy into homeopathy despite having terminal cancer. But I’ve seen firsthand the amount of intelligent people in my position who will try anything. Just put yourself in their shoes. Their life is now measured in months rather than years and decades. Many have small children. It’s easy to understand why they would just think “I’m already fooked. Why not give this a go?”. I have so little regard for the snake oil salesmen who at best give people false hope and at worst may shorten the person’s life even further.

Shenshen · 23-01-2018 9:46am

Jawgap wrote: »

How can you make any money from homeopathy......surely the fúcktards who buy it know they never have to buy the treatment again, they just keep diluting it and diluting it......

......in fact maybe there's money to be made by buying one bottle of the stuff, diluting it a million fold and selling on the new conction;)

If you can't make money out of selling water for €5+ per 50ml, you're not a proper homeopath

And as per this thread, people are very happy to keep buying it.

Homeopathy; the new wallet inspector.

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