Why cant all hospitals be run like this

tails_naf · 14-08-2020 9:21am #1

I'm at the beacon hospital for a health check and they had me do an unscheduled chest xray. I went down to the radiology department, and was registered and had the xray completed in less than 10 minutes. The radiographers themselves took about 2 minutes end to end. Results automatically sent back to the health check. This is how you save money, that one xray room can see hundreds of people a day if needs be. No way, no messing. Why can't this be the way all hospitals work?

Capt'n Midnight · 14-08-2020 9:34am

tails_naf · 14-08-2020 9:39am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Not sure I get the relevance, but the far side is always welcome!

Badly Drunk Boy · 14-08-2020 10:17am

tails_naf wrote: »

I'm at the beacon hospital for a health check and they had me do an unscheduled chest xray. I went down to the radiology department, and was registered and had the xray completed in less than 10 minutes. The radiographers themselves took about 2 minutes end to end. Results automatically sent back to the health check. This is how you save money, that one xray room can see hundreds of people a day if needs be. No way, no messing. Why can't this be the way all hospitals work?

A friend of mine was referred there a few years ago when he was having heart problems (well, he still is). He said the place was beautiful, the staff were beautiful, but when he got the breakdown of the costs from VHI, they had charged about €1000 for seeing the consultant, but the total bill for less than a day was €24,000! :eek: It's easy to be efficient when you're charging that sort of money.

Obviously, VHI paid for it, not my friend, but the money also comes from other VHI customers.

Gregor Samsa · 14-08-2020 10:22am

There's no way the Beacon hospital - a private, 210 bed facility - has ever done, or ever will do, hundreds of x-rays a day. You had a great experience there because it can afford to operate on a much lower capacity than a public hospital, doesn't have all and sundry ending up in it, and it can charge for the privilege.

dotsman · 14-08-2020 10:58am

It's not just the fees. I had a similar experience in a Croatian hospital some years back. In and out very quickly - saw a GP, Consultant, got Blood Tests and then back to Consultant with results all within a few hours (the only waiting was for the blood test results). State of the art IT systems (which everyone knew how to use!), friendly relaxed staff, and real patient care. And the whole thing cost me about 30-40 euro (that was the really "high" charges that non-Croats had to pay)

When I compared that to St Vincent's, where I went when I broke my arm. They would make you come in for the entire day for each subsequent "check-up", yet you would only spend about 2 minutes of that day with a doctor and about 15 minutes with a nurse. The rest of the day was spent "queuing". Yet, everyone still gets seen! So it is not that there were too many patients, it was simply that that they had the most inefficient and stupid processes for managing patients. Basically, they just told everyone to come in at 9.00 and it was first come first serve, with all data being captured/managed on paper and no communication/helpfulness from staff.

KevRossi · 14-08-2020 11:50am

dotsman wrote: »

When I compared that to St Vincent's, where I went when I broke my arm. They would make you come in for the entire day for each subsequent "check-up", yet you would only spend about 2 minutes of that day with a doctor and about 15 minutes with a nurse. The rest of the day was spent "queuing". Yet, everyone still gets seen! So it is not that there were too many patients, it was simply that that they had the most inefficient and stupid processes for managing patients. Basically, they just told everyone to come in at 9.00 and it was first come first serve, with all data being captured/managed on paper and no communication/helpfulness from staff.

That was my experience with Vincents as well with a broken elbow. Every time I went in I had to queue for 2-3 hours for an X-Ray that I didn't need. Was in one day, had an X-Ray, decided I needed physio, so asked to come in the next day for assessment. Had to queue for another 2.5 hours for an X-Ray that the physio didn't need to look at.

My Dad broke his hand, went to Roscommon hospital, X-Ray and told to go to Merlin Park in Galway, two hours later we were there and had to do the X-Ray again. It's maddening. But once you're in the system it's very good IMO, and yes, I know all the horror stories.

My experience of private in this country was diabolical. Full on rotor cuff injury that required surgery and months of rehab was initially diagnosed as 'bruising' and I was offered two Solpadine. They also wrote down the section to be done on the MRI form wrong, so the MRI did my elbow and upper arm, not the shoulder.

The HSE is full of inefficiencies, it needs to be sorted, but that means tackling the unions and they won't have that.

TheBoyConor · 14-08-2020 11:56am

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

There's no way the Beacon hospital - a private, 210 bed facility - has ever done, or ever will do, hundreds of x-rays a day. You had a great experience there because it can afford to operate on a much lower capacity than a public hospital, doesn't have all and sundry ending up in it, and it can charge for the privilege.

Exactly. They can pretty much charge whatever they like because insurers are paying for it. they have vastly smaller numbers of patients to deal with, not the general public.

And they don't have amulances tipping out violent alcoholics and drug addicts in to the A&E department who go on trash the place and verbally and physically assault the staff.

Charles Babbage · 14-08-2020 12:00pm

KevRossi wrote: »

The HSE is full of inefficiencies, it needs to be sorted, but that means tackling the unions and they won't have that.

The unions would say that the problems are not down to their members, but rather the way the place is managed, and they would be at least half right.

Amirani · 14-08-2020 12:01pm

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

There's no way the Beacon hospital - a private, 210 bed facility - has ever done, or ever will do, hundreds of x-rays a day. You had a great experience there because it can afford to operate on a much lower capacity than a public hospital, doesn't have all and sundry ending up in it, and it can charge for the privilege.

Exactly this. The Beacon can be nice and picky about the cases they take in.

All the bad cases go to the public hospitals. If you get picked up by an ambulance, you're going to a public hospital. Highly specialised and complex care, you're likely going to a public hospital. Don't have tonnes of cash, you're ending up in a public hospital.

People who do these private v public hospital comparisons don't have a notion of how both systems work. Private hospitals can be excellent (for those who can afford them), but they play a very different role to public tertiary hospitals.

Gregor Samsa · 14-08-2020 12:10pm

The other thing is that a private hospital can run on a fairly strict appointment system.

A public hospital has people coming in for appointments, as well as emergencies coming from outside, and cases being sent down from the wards. The constantly have to juggle their priorities, meaning sticking to an appointment system just can't work.

looksee · 14-08-2020 12:11pm

That xray system is the same in Waterford UHW - out of A&E down to xray, xray done, back to designated waiting room to be called for review of xray. From getting to xray to back to the waiting room took 10 minutes, top. It didn't used to be like that but a couple of years ago they sorted it and there is minimum waiting now.

On the other hand I had 24 hours in (snip, decided not to name it) a major private clinic, they did the procedure fine, sucessful, though the nursing care was abysmal. Then I ended up going almost directly from there to a public hospital for 8 days to sort an issue the procedure created, which then took over 12 months to recover fully from.

riclad · 14-08-2020 1:33pm

I got an xray in a public hospital, it took maybe 15 mins .10 mins waiting time.
Maybe 10-20 per cent of people use the private health system ,so of course its faster.
public hospital has to deal with everyone including drunk people and drug addicts.
someone on an average wage can afford health insurance ,
private hospitals are not just designed for millionaires.
We need more nurses and doctors in the public health system.
In america if you have insurance you can just to to the er .
private hospitals in america are very expensive .
in the us the average health insurance per year is 14k plus.
The advantage of private hospitals is you dont have to wait 6 months to see a consultant.

shaveAbullock · 14-08-2020 1:36pm

My dealings with the public health care system have been much faster since COVID restrictions, they can no longer have a large number of people waiting in the same area.

Mad_maxx · 14-08-2020 1:43pm

shaveAbullock wrote: »

My dealings with the public health care system have been much faster since COVID restrictions, they can no longer have a large number of people waiting in the same area.

Yes ,post covid ,waiting room's are not staffed with the entire extended connors family, in visiting auntie Julia who has some bunion trouble

YellowBucket · 14-08-2020 1:47pm

Biggest issue I saw was they were not giving out individual appointments. They held “clinics” where about 100 people would be given the same appointment and stacked in a waiting room for hours and hours.

feelings · 14-08-2020 1:47pm

The public hospitals are outrageously inefficient and it will stay that way for the foreseeable future, unless we tackle two major issues.
a) consultants run our public hospitals and dictate policies b) hospital staff are resistant to change, even small changes to work practices are blocked

Muahahaha · 14-08-2020 2:52pm

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

There's no way the Beacon hospital - a private, 210 bed facility - has ever done, or ever will do, hundreds of x-rays a day. You had a great experience there because it can afford to operate on a much lower capacity than a public hospital, doesn't have all and sundry ending up in it, and it can charge for the privilege.

yeah x-rays arent just taking a photograph like the OP seems to think, they have to be interpreted and examined by medical professionals as well. Theres no way they could do hundreds of them a day.

dotsman wrote: »

When I compared that to St Vincent's, where I went when I broke my arm. They would make you come in for the entire day for each subsequent "check-up", yet you would only spend about 2 minutes of that day with a doctor and about 15 minutes with a nurse. The rest of the day was spent "queuing". Yet, everyone still gets seen! So it is not that there were too many patients, it was simply that that they had the most inefficient and stupid processes for managing patients. Basically, they just told everyone to come in at 9.00 and it was first come first serve, with all data being captured/managed on paper and no communication/helpfulness from staff.

Thats my biggest bug bear in the HSE, the way the admin staff run clinics. Its an absolute joke. I have to visit the Mater once a year for a 10 minute check up and they tell around 50 people all to show up at 9am. You could get extremely lucky and seen at 9.05am and out the door for 9.15am or like has happened me be seen at 1.30pm after a 4.5 hour wait. The way the admin staff run the clinics is an absolute waste of everyones time there, Im always left shaking my head at it and I actually dread going for check ups because of it, you just dont know when you are going to get out of there.

You'd swear people dont have work or other things to do that day the way it is run, its a farce of an operation. Ive heard people complain about it at the admin desk and they get a snarky attitude of 'you'll get seen when you get seen'. Its hard to believe those staff are getting paid 40 to 50k a year and they go out of their way to make things more difficult for the patient.

Patrick2010 · 14-08-2020 3:49pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah x-rays arent just taking a photograph like the OP seems to think, they have to be interpreted and examined by medical professionals as well. Theres no way they could do hundreds of them a day.

Thats my biggest bug bear in the HSE, the way the admin staff run clinics. Its an absolute joke. I have to visit the Mater once a year for a 10 minute check up and they tell around 50 people all to show up at 9am. You could get extremely lucky and seen at 9.05am and out the door for 9.15am or like has happened me be seen at 1.30pm after a 4.5 hour wait. The way the admin staff run the clinics is an absolute waste of everyones time there, Im always left shaking my head at it and I actually dread going for check ups because of it, you just dont know when you are going to get out of there.

You'd swear people dont have work or other things to do that day the way it is run, its a farce of an operation. Ive heard people complain about it at the admin desk and they get a snarky attitude of 'you'll get seen when you get seen'. Its hard to believe those staff are getting paid 40 to 50k a year and they go out of their way to make things more difficult for the patient.

Thanks to Covid , this has changed. Theres no more having 40 or 50 people been given an appointment for 8 o clock. You'll only have a few waiting now now, sitting well spaced out and the idea is to get people in and out asap. I know as I work in hospitals and the difference in the out patient departments is clear from pre Covid.

Muahahaha · 14-08-2020 4:12pm

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Thanks to Covid , this has changed. Theres no more having 40 or 50 people been given an appointment for 8 o clock. You'll only have a few waiting now now, sitting well spaced out and the idea is to get people in and out asap. I know as I work in hospitals and the difference in the out patient departments is clear from pre Covid.

Well thats good to hear. Sad that it took a pandemic for it to be organised properly but good to hear things have changed.

arctictree · 14-08-2020 4:26pm

YellowBucket wrote: »

Biggest issue I saw was they were not giving out individual appointments. They held “clinics” where about 100 people would be given the same appointment and stacked in a waiting room for hours and hours.

This just stinks of the consultants believing their time is more important than their patients. And no one in a position of authority pulling them up on it.

Charles Babbage · 14-08-2020 9:17pm

arctictree wrote: »

This just stinks of the consultants believing their time is more important than their patients. And no one in a position of authority pulling them up on it.

Consultants in the Beacon do not do this .
This is just an anti customer culture in the HSE.

byhookorbycrook · 14-08-2020 9:43pm

A friend hasn’t been long discharged.Her GP gobsmacked at the unnecessary tests that were conducted.

tails_naf · 14-08-2020 10:18pm

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

There's no way the Beacon hospital - a private, 210 bed facility - has ever done, or ever will do, hundreds of x-rays a day. You had a great experience there because it can afford to operate on a much lower capacity than a public hospital, doesn't have all and sundry ending up in it, and it can charge for the privilege.

The fact the xray machine was used for 2 minutes to process me, and did 2 other patients in the less than 10 mins I was there says different. They got through 3 people in less than 10 mins, with no stress or rush, just efficiency. 2 staff and one machine. I've waited longer to be checked in at reception in public hospitals, with the staff nattering to one another.

shaveAbullock · 14-08-2020 10:20pm

tails_naf wrote: »

The fact the xray machine was used for 2 minutes to process me, and did 2 other patients in the less than 10 mins I was there says different. They got through 3 people in less than 10 mins, with no stress or rush, just efficiency. 2 staff and one machine. I've waited longer to be checked in at reception in public hospitals, with the staff nattering to one another.

But that's not how it is right now in public hospitals. Currently it is very much like your experience in the Beacon.
Speaking from my own experience anyway.

tails_naf · 14-08-2020 10:22pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Exactly. They can pretty much charge whatever they like because insurers are paying for it. they have vastly smaller numbers of patients to deal with, not the general public.

And they don't have amulances tipping out violent alcoholics and drug addicts in to the A&E department who go on trash the place and verbally and physically assault the staff.

In this case it was part of health check, so no insurance company involved. The included the xray as a fee extra as they determined it was needed. This was not a 24k bill, it was all for a few hundred (OK not cheap), but it as a full exam, full bloods etc, the xray was not charged for at all. Results on the bloods the same day, about an hour after they were taken.

tails_naf · 14-08-2020 10:25pm

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

The other thing is that a private hospital can run on a fairly strict appointment system.

A public hospital has people coming in for appointments, as well as emergencies coming from outside, and cases being sent down from the wards. The constantly have to juggle their priorities, meaning sticking to an appointment system just can't work.

Why so when they have the opportunity to set appointments do they make a bags of it and have you wait for hours with then 10 others with the exact same appointment time. CUMH is excellent in terms of care, but a disaster in terms of the scheduled checkups. Pregnant women waiting uncomfortably for hours on end, and all of them with appointments. All get see in the end, so why not just give realistic times to each attendee.

3d4life · 14-08-2020 10:28pm

tails_naf wrote: »

I'm at the beacon hospital for a health check and they had me do an unscheduled chest xray. I went down to the radiology department, and was registered and had the xray completed in less than 10 minutes. .......

I've had a similar experience.....in one of the large Dublin public hospitals ....

tails_naf · 14-08-2020 10:31pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah x-rays arent just taking a photograph like the OP seems to think, they have to be interpreted and examined by medical professionals as well. Theres no way they could do hundreds of them a day.

Thats my biggest bug bear in the HSE, the way the admin staff run clinics. Its an absolute joke. I have to visit the Mater once a year for a 10 minute check up and they tell around 50 people all to show up at 9am. You could get extremely lucky and seen at 9.05am and out the door for 9.15am or like has happened me be seen at 1.30pm after a 4.5 hour wait. The way the admin staff run the clinics is an absolute waste of everyones time there, Im always left shaking my head at it and I actually dread going for check ups because of it, you just dont know when you are going to get out of there.

You'd swear people dont have work or other things to do that day the way it is run, its a farce of an operation. Ive heard people complain about it at the admin desk and they get a snarky attitude of 'you'll get seen when you get seen'. Its hard to believe those staff are getting paid 40 to 50k a year and they go out of their way to make things more difficult for the patient.

The speed of the xray was not exaggerated, I have the call log to my wife as I walked in the door and again 9 mins later as I walked out, calling to tell her how blown away I was how quick it was. The xray was interpreted, though perhaps you're failing to see that things can be efficiently pipelenined, person A use the expensive machine efficiently, getting everyone seen, while experts B, C, D read and interpret the results as they are immediately and electronically deliverd where they need to go. It's not rocket science.

tails_naf · 14-08-2020 10:34pm

3d4life wrote: »

I've had a similar experience.....in one of the large Dublin public hospitals ....

Thats good to hear, gives me hope the others can do it too!

Charles Babbage · 15-08-2020 12:06am

tails_naf wrote: »

Why so when they have the opportunity to set appointments do they make a bags of it and have you wait for hours with then 10 others with the exact same appointment time. CUMH is excellent in terms of care, but a disaster in terms of the scheduled checkups. Pregnant women waiting uncomfortably for hours on end, and all of them with appointments. All get see in the end, so why not just give realistic times to each attendee.

There is absolutely no need for this, it is people paid by the taxpayer holding the public in contempt.

They could give you a slot several weeks in advance e.g. 9-12am Tuesday and then text you a precise time the day before e.g. 11:15. It isn't rocket science.

griffin100 · 15-08-2020 1:33am

The trade unions and their resistance to change is a real problem. Nurses work a a 3 x12hr day week, and then post pictures online of how tired they are after their long shifts and how hard they work. Yet try and move them to a standard working week and watch the pushback. It’s a lot easier to get agency work when you have four days a week off rather than the usual two most people have.
But it’s not a simple as blaming the unions. My son was unwell over the summer and we ended up in a public hospital for a few days. When we went to A&E he was seen by a triage nurse within a few minutes and then by a number of ever increasingly senior doctors (he had an illness they couldn’t quite pin down so the doctors had to keep deferring upwards). He had an x ray and blood tests and was given a bed, all within a couple of hours. The care he got was excellent.

I got chatting to a senior nurse and she told me Covid was great for A&E, all the usual suspects that used A&E for GP care weren’t clogging up the system as much as usual so the system was working well.

Event though there were fewer wasters than usual in A&E there was still a few of the usual suspects who were sitting there in the waiting area with their luggage, all on a first name basis with each other and the staff, all arguing about how they should be admitted. The more noise they made the quicker they were seen and dealt with.

TLDR: it’s complicated!!

Girl from Whitesnake Video · 15-08-2020 1:50am

Don't believe in private healthcare. Healthcare should not be based on profit. Apparently the Cuban healthcare system is one of the best in the world!!

Anyway in our situation now, the government should be seriously considering and if not, they should already be in the process of building temporary separate hospitals specifically for covid patients.

tonysopprano · 15-08-2020 2:09am

Girl from Whitesnake Video wrote: »

Don't believe in private healthcare. Healthcare should not be based on profit. Apparently the Cuban healthcare system is one of the best in the world!!

On a not so recent holiday there and as required by local custom picked up hitchhiker, who was on her way to hospital. She had sheets, pillowcase and pillow with her as they have to bring their own.

Healthcare is supposed to be excellent but infrastructure is lacking

Girl from Whitesnake Video · 15-08-2020 4:03am

tonysopprano wrote: »

On a not so recent holiday there and as required by local custom picked up hitchhiker, who was on her way to hospital. She had sheets, pillowcase and pillow with her as they have to bring their own.

Healthcare is supposed to be excellent but infrastructure is lacking

Perhaps to do with it being a poor country and all and whose responsible for that? Yet still healthcare is 'suppose to be excellent' and whose responsible for that?

suicide_circus · 15-08-2020 5:25am

The Irish health service is amazing....unless you've used the health services in literally any other EU country.

thomasm · 15-08-2020 7:49am

Had a fall on holidays in Italy a few years ago. Ended up blacking out a few hours later. Was taken to hospital as a precaution and within minutes was seen by A & E consultant, had x ray and MRI as I banged my head and back and then was seen by a neurologist. All in a small hospital for a cost of €65 and this took 2.5 hours max. Also had a nurse beside me the whole time. Remarkable service.

Wanderer78 · 15-08-2020 7:53am

tails_naf wrote:

I'm at the beacon hospital for a health check and they had me do an unscheduled chest xray. I went down to the radiology department, and was registered and had the xray completed in less than 10 minutes. The radiographers themselves took about 2 minutes end to end. Results automatically sent back to the health check. This is how you save money, that one xray room can see hundreds of people a day if needs be. No way, no messing. Why can't this be the way all hospitals work?

Small private hospital, far simpler than far more complex, much larger public/private hospitals, incomparable really

whisky_galore · 15-08-2020 8:04am

feelings wrote: »

The public hospitals are outrageously inefficient and it will stay that way for the foreseeable future, unless we tackle two major issues.
a) consultants run our public hospitals and dictate policies b) hospital staff are resistant to change, even small changes to work practices are blocked

Most of the old hospitals are designed so that in the past, the only way out was via the mortuary.

Wanderer78 · 15-08-2020 9:39am

feelings wrote: »

The public hospitals are outrageously inefficient and it will stay that way for the foreseeable future, unless we tackle two major issues.
a) consultants run our public hospitals and dictate policies b) hospital staff are resistant to change, even small changes to work practices are blocked

or maybe the 'inefficiencies' of the private sector are creating complex issues within our public/private hospitals!

OfflerCrocGod · 15-08-2020 10:55am

thomasm wrote: »

Had a fall on holidays in Italy a few years ago. Ended up blacking out a few hours later. Was taken to hospital as a precaution and within minutes was seen by A & E consultant, had x ray and MRI as I banged my head and back and then was seen by a neurologist. All in a small hospital for a cost of €65 and this took 2.5 hours max. Also had a nurse beside me the whole time. Remarkable service.

In the north I presume?

riclad · 15-08-2020 1:20pm

all non urgent operations have been canceled to deal with covid,
i think ,most people are simply staying away from public hospitals if they have a choice.
So of course they are less crowded a than usual.

BrianD3 · 15-08-2020 1:33pm

As already stated the private hospitals get to pick and choose what work they carry out, no dealing with drunks at 3 am on a Saturday night etc.

The HSE does some things well - if you live in an urban area and have a condition which is obviously and immediately life threatening, the ambulance service is good and you will likely get good care in whatever public hospital you are brought to.

If it is not immediately life threatening or not thought to be so, then a very poor service is likely. On the latter point, two of my close relatives died in public hospitals in recent years, one due to complications from an incarcerated hernia, the other due to complications from an ulcer. I strongly suspect (but can't prove) that overcrowding and shambolic conditions in the acute hospitals they were admitted to contributed to these "complications" and the "poor outcomes".

In general there are massive problems with the provision of health services in Ireland - the HSE is obviously a major part of the mess but the clusterf*ck encompasses homecare, GPs, insurers, private nursing homes, private hospitals. The trolley crisis that happens in public acute hospitals on a regular basis doesn't occur in isolation.

Successive governments and the Dept of Health are ultimately responsible for this situation.

A topical issue is nursing homes and Covid-19. IMO Covid-19 just highlighted fundamental and systemic problems that were present for years. Questions that need to be answered include

Why is the State so dependent on private nursing homes?

Is HIQA fit for purpose?

When the Fair Deal scheme was introduced, was it to benefit citizens or part of a privatisation agenda?

Have politicians, public hospital consultants etc. financial interests/investments in private hospltals and nursing homes?

Why do public nursing homes, in general, charge considerably more per week than private?

tails_naf · 15-08-2020 2:28pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Small private hospital, far simpler than far more complex, much larger public/private hospitals, incomparable really

Well run is well run, smaller size is hardly a factor. Mallow hospital is small and its a shambles. Went there years ago for a kidney scan and it took 2 full days to actually get the scan done. One to see the consultant for 5 mins who just said (after waiting 4 hours) why are you here, OK gp sent you, well send the appointment for the scan (that cost me one days work and 170 euro) and then back another day waiting a few hours for the scan. Small does not mean efficient. Large does not mean inefficient.

I personally don't like the idea of private health care, but I would like to see the same efficiency that I saw in the beacon repeated in the private hospitals, if even for some reason that meant we had more smaller hospitals, though I don't think thats the issue.

Wanderer78 · 15-08-2020 2:32pm

tails_naf wrote:

I personally don't like the idea of private health care, but I would like to see the same efficiency that I saw in the beacon repeated in the private hospitals, if even for some reason that meant we had more smaller hospitals, though I don't think thats the issue.

Larger complex organisations tend to be more complex than small complex organisations, increasing the likelihood of inefficiencies and general waste, health care is fecken complex, I'm sure there's problems within all health care systems worldwide, it's messy, I'm sure we ll still be talking about it until the last person turns out the lights

15-08-2020 2:45pm

You probably paid a lot in private health insurance over the years for that nice efficient experience, that is what private healthcare is all about, jumping the que. The consultants you saw also work in public hospitals so the treatment in theory should be the same, just quicker and in a plusher environment.

tails_naf · 15-08-2020 9:47pm

Dav010 wrote: »

You probably paid a lot in private health insurance over the years for that nice efficient experience, that is what private healthcare is all about, jumping the que. The consultants you saw also work in public hospitals so the treatment in theory should be the same, just quicker and in a plusher environment.

The government spends over 4k per person on the public health system. My private health premium costs well less than a grand. So why does 4k get us feck all, yet only an additional quarter of that amount totally change things? I bet if the govt spent 5k per person nothing would change for the public system, so the issue is not money, its how things are run.

15-08-2020 10:37pm

tails_naf wrote: »

The government spends over 4k per person on the public health system. My private health premium costs well less than a grand. So why does 4k get us feck all, yet only an additional quarter of that amount totally change things? I bet if the govt spent 5k per person nothing would change for the public system, so the issue is not money, its how things are run.

Probably because a lot more people use it more often. If the Beacon converted to a public hospital tomorrow offering all the services including A&E and public outpatient services, all under the same Beacon management, your experience would be very different.

tails_naf · 17-08-2020 10:25am

Dav010 wrote: »

Probably because a lot more people use it more often. If the Beacon converted to a public hospital tomorrow offering all the services including A&E and public outpatient services, all under the same Beacon management, your experience would be very different.

The question is how can 1k per person get private treatment and be quickly seen, while 4k per person gets you 2 year waiting lists. It's not about the beacon, but the value obtained by monwley spent by the govt on health vs money given directly to private care. The only explanation is that one is more efficient than the other. The beacon was an example only. There are hundreds of thousands of people with private health insurance and for their 1k they are seen much faster than the hundreds of thousands without it, despite the govt spending 4k on everyone. It would be great if that 4k was just spent efficiently full stop, and no need for the private system at all...... Sure look at the maternity system with each woman keeping her medical records with her because the system can't keep track of them electronically. We're not in 1990, but our health system is.

Geuze · 17-08-2020 12:28pm

Short answer - a 1k typical health insurance plan only covers hosp care, with maybe limited benefits for consultants/GP visits.

The 4k figure you quote - which is not per person - covers all publicly provided healthcare.

17-08-2020 1:18pm

tails_naf wrote: »

The question is how can 1k per person get private treatment and be quickly seen, while 4k per person gets you 2 year waiting lists. It's not about the beacon, but the value obtained by monwley spent by the govt on health vs money given directly to private care. The only explanation is that one is more efficient than the other. The beacon was an example only. There are hundreds of thousands of people with private health insurance and for their 1k they are seen much faster than the hundreds of thousands without it, despite the govt spending 4k on everyone. It would be great if that 4k was just spent efficiently full stop, and no need for the private system at all...... Sure look at the maternity system with each woman keeping her medical records with her because the system can't keep track of them electronically. We're not in 1990, but our health system is.

I’d agree with you, the privately run Hospital is possibly more efficiently and has smaller staff numbers. But most private hospitals are selective about the treatments they offer, their consultants pay for their consulting rooms, and they bill the private insurance companies a lot more than the €1k you pay. If all private hospitals were required to offer the full range of services a public hospital provides, particularly A&E and emergency admissions, again, your experience would be very different as acute patients would be prioritised over elective/scheduled xrays.

Why cant all hospitals be run like this

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