F1 2020 - British Grand Prix

Inquitus wrote: »

All the frontrunners started on Mediums, so they would have had to have gone Medium then Soft or Hard.

Yeah I wonder if they could have made it on soft, medium, medium given they'll need to reduce the stress on tyres this weekend. But they probably would have made it on that strategy.

I doubt anyone will want to start on the softs this weekend.

Gwynplaine wrote: »

First full race I've seen for quite a while. Usually highlights. Was an okay race. Why such hate for Hamilton? Schumacher had a dominant car for years, no one came close to challenging him.
Vettel's heart is gone, Max is a future multiple Champ. Lewis will win 8, maybe 9 championships, and pass the 100 wins.

He really didn't.

1997 and 1998 he fought for the title in clearly inferior machinery against a Newy inspired designed Williams and a Newy designed and Merc powered McLaren. Took both championships to the wire.

1999 was a write off obviously.

2000 the car was about the same as McLaren and won (finally), again the championship went to the wire.

2001 he was dominant, but we still have 3 different teams win in a season and 4 different drivers.

You could argue that 2002 was his first real dominant season, I will give you that.

2003 was again to the wire where 3 different drivers could have won it.

2004 was his real dominant season, no one could touch him or Ferrari for that matter. My favourite story of this is that the car even surprised Ferrari with how quick it was. They thought the car was underweight so they took it apart, ran back-to-to back tests etc to confirm. They were still convinced that there was something wrong.

Great video on it here:


I will sum up that my defensiveness with the Schumacher and Hamilton debate is the set up of it all. Schumacher joined a Ferrari team completely at sea, and within year had them winning again and then a year later battling for championships. He brought in different personnel and had incremental improvements over the 11 seasons he was there, it was more of a long term project that built up over time.

Hamilton joined a Mercedes team that were ready and waiting for the 2014 season (they lobbied very hard for the current PU's we have in F1) they have also poured in trucks of cash for it, because it gives them a huge return on their market value for the parent company. Granted, he still has to drive the car which he does incredibly, but as some have pointed out, with a car like that as good as it is it would be hard for him not to be doing what he is.

He hasn't been in a close title fight since Rosberg headed off into the distance after his one. Bottas can't hold a candle to Hamilton and the Merc car with his development is lightyears ahead of the nearest one. It says a lot about the car when you can drive most of a lap with 3 wheels and still win.

He will get all of the records this year and the next with very little in terms of a challenge.

Gintonious wrote: »

He really didn't.

1997 and 1998 he fought for the title in clearly inferior machinery against a Newy inspired designed Williams and a Newy designed and Merc powered McLaren. Took both championships to the wire.

1999 was a write off obviously.

2000 the car was about the same as McLaren and won (finally), again the championship went to the wire.

2001 he was dominant, but we still have 3 different teams win in a season and 4 different drivers.

You could argue that 2002 was his first real dominant season, I will give you that.

2003 was again to the wire where 3 different drivers could have won it.

2004 was his real dominant season, no one could touch him or Ferrari for that matter. My favourite story of this is that the car even surprised Ferrari with how quick it was. They thought the car was underweight so they took it apart, ran back-to-to back tests etc to confirm. They were still convinced that there was something wrong.

Great video on it here:

I will sum up that my defensiveness with the Schumacher and Hamilton debate is the set up of it all. Schumacher joined a Ferrari team completely at sea, and within year had them winning again and then a year later battling for championships. He brought in different personnel and had incremental improvements over the 11 seasons he was there, it was more of a long term project that built up over time.

Hamilton joined a Mercedes team that were ready and waiting for the 2014 season (they lobbied very hard for the current PU's we have in F1) they have also poured in trucks of cash for it, because it gives them a huge return on their market value for the parent company. Granted, he still has to drive the car which he does incredibly, but as some have pointed out, with a car like that as good as it is it would be hard for him not to be doing what he is.

He hasn't been in a close title fight since Rosberg headed off into the distance after his one. Bottas can't hold a candle to Hamilton and the Merc car with his development is lightyears ahead of the nearest one. It says a lot about the car when you can drive most of a lap with 3 wheels and still win.

He will get all of the records this year and the next with very little in terms of a challenge.

Great post and yes Hamilton will get all of the records. Other factors also include the fact that the seasons are now 20 races long (well not this year for obvious reasons) and also the car reliability is far beyond what it was in the late 90s and early 00s. Schumachers engine at Suzuka in 2006 will always stick with me.

The fact remains though, Hamilton is a fast driver in a fast car. When he is in the lead that is that. As soon as I saw him stay ahead of Bottas following a slowish start on Sunday I knew it was over. And the "drama" of the last lap.... there was no drama, he was so dominant that even on 3 wheels he could bring it home. I can admire how Hamilton drives, he is utilising what he has in the best possible way. But as soon as the race is over I switch off so I dont have to listen to the interview which usually involves what a great fans we have in <insert country> and what a struggle this weekend has been for him to get this result

jv2000 wrote: »

... But as soon as the race is over I switch off so I dont have to listen to the interview which usually involves what a great fans we have in <insert country> and what a struggle this weekend has been for him to get this result

Completely agree with that. Hamilton is a great driver and rarely makes mistakes. But you're completely right to avoid the interviews. Total PR, copy and paste jobs. I find him so Inarticulate and boring to listen to. He was describing the last lap of Silverstone, driving with a burst tyre and Max closing in rapidly and managed to be boring talking about it.

In the car he's probably a genius. Out of the car he's a bore and a dope and saddest of all, a try-hard

I think Hdmilton winning on the 3wheels is so overrated as it was only one lap at most that he had to drive it like that for and the gap between him and Max was 30 seconds so he was never in any real danger of losing it unfortunatly. Now if it had of happened to Hxmilton when it happened to Bottas that would have made it very interesting and I doubt he would have finished on 3 wheels then. No doubt he probably would have been able to put and still get out in front if Bottas and Max and still win the race unfortunatly anyway. I think the biggest mistake the FIA have done this year is ban whatever it was Ferrari were doing with there engine. They should have let them keep doing it for this year and next year and then ban it from 22 on. It would have made this season and next season a hell of a lot more exciting. Who knows maybe Vertel would have been leading the Chamionship now and be giving it 120 per cent every weekend instead he just looks like someone who does not want to be there and shos heart is not in it anymore. He knows he can not beat the Mercs now as there car is just not good enough so why bother.

Glico Man wrote: »

Not the best post I've read on here to be honest. Let's allow the Ferrari to keep running an illegal engine just to keep the front a bit interesting? That's just a silly suggestion that I hope was made in jest.

Hamilton winning with a puncture may have been a bit more enthusiastic than if it was anyone else, a fair bit of British media bias will do that, but it made the end a bit more exciting because he was leading the race on the last lap with a charging Max on fresh tyres behind him. Amounted to nothing but woke me up from the rest of the race at least.

It's worth pointing out that the FIA looked and failed to find any evidence to prove that the Ferrari engine was illegal. Ferrari agreed to stop running it in return for privacy because they didn't want technology that they also use in their road cars to be made public.

quokula wrote: »

It's worth pointing out that the FIA looked and failed to find any evidence to prove that the Ferrari engine was illegal. Ferrari agreed to stop running it in return for privacy because they didn't want technology that they also use in their road cars to be made public.

Do you have a source for that info?

Anjobe wrote: »

Do you have a source for that info?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/mar/05/fia-says-it-could-not-prove-ferraris-engine-operated-outside-rules-in-2019

https://www.essentiallysports.com/f1-news-thats-the-reason-were-not-keen-to-do-it-ferrari-explains-why-its-so-secretive-about-its-fia-engine-settlement/

Actually I can only find references to protecting their IP now. I'm sure I read previously that they wanted to protect the IP because it was relevant to their road cars, but I can't find that now.

In any case, there are ample articles to be found confirming that the FIA tried and failed to find anything illegal with the engine.

quokula wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/mar/05/fia-says-it-could-not-prove-ferraris-engine-operated-outside-rules-in-2019

https://www.essentiallysports.com/f1-news-thats-the-reason-were-not-keen-to-do-it-ferrari-explains-why-its-so-secretive-about-its-fia-engine-settlement/

Actually I can only find references to protecting their IP now. I'm sure I read previously that they wanted to protect the IP because it was relevant to their road cars, but I can't find that now.

In any case, there are ample articles to be found confirming that the FIA tried and failed to find anything illegal with the engine.

So the notion that Ferrari were protecting their IP comes directly from Ferrari themselves, so we can't rule out that being a self-serving misdirection. The FIA statements quoted in the Guardian article are the reason why people find the whole affair so unsatisfactory.

There is nothing we can conclusively say about it without knowing what was in the secret agreement they concocted between themselves, but Ferrari protecting IP used in their road cars sounds unlikely. Any competitor could get their hands on one of the cars and reverse engineer it, the only protection from that would be patents I would think.

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

I've been an F1 fan for along long time, and the last couple of years have been the worst ever for the sport.
Probably since these new silent crappy cars.
I long for the days of refueling, sound and tactics.
And funnily enough, actual racing.

The 2020 cars are the fastest cars in the history of Formula 1. Refueling is not coming back and let's be honest the racing wasn't great in the old days either, there's a bit of rose tinted glasses here about the good old days.

The current Mercedes domination is certainly no fun but the other teams don't look up to the task of catching them either. Red Bull and Ferrari have gone backwards this year. Maybe the 2022 regulations will even things out a bit.

BikeRacer wrote: »

Do you think their engine performance going off a cliff the second the FIA introduced a second encrypted fuel flow sensor is a coincidence?

This is a good point.

quokula wrote: »

But that's a bit of a catch 22 isn't it? We have no evidence whatsoever that you're cheating, but we won't accept that you're not unless you open up your engine for all your competitors to see and copy?

I've yet to see anyone credibly point to anything in the rulebook and say that is the rule that Ferrari broke. The UK media (which is what we all consume for F1 coverage) have been openly hostile to Ferrari for decades because it's a foreign team so they always report things in a certain way, but these things should be innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

Can we even trust that the FIA statements on this are sincere though, or are they part of the confidential agreement too? Why would Ferrari stop doing something they believed was legal and the FIA couldn't prove otherwise, i.e. is the nature of the agreement essentially that Ferrari would stop it if the FIA would put out a statement that they couldn't prove it was cheating?

I don't buy the Ferrari secrecy argument either, as all the power units are scrutineered and homologated by the FIA anyway, and this doesn't make their details available to the other engine providers.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Completely agree with that. Hamilton is a great driver and rarely makes mistakes. But you're completely right to avoid the interviews. Total PR, copy and paste jobs. I find him so Inarticulate and boring to listen to. He was describing the last lap of Silverstone, driving with a burst tyre and Max closing in rapidly and managed to be boring talking about it.

In the car he's probably a genius. Out of the car he's a bore and a dope and saddest of all, a try-hard

Nail on the head with that one. I often find what Hamilton says very tiring in that he tries to create some sort of challenge he had to overcome (see what he said over the weekend where he suffered all weekend with his set up prior to qualy, only to hen break the lap record TWICE in Q3).

He may well be doing this to try and create some sort of justification around his achievements. You can see it on the Autosport forum that most are tiring of this dominance, which then in turn can put a mark against the general achievement in a way, his only challenge is himself, but no one really cares about that, do they?

He is clearly on another level in a car like he has now, Merc have the quintessential second driver who can be fast at times, but not all the time. Some will point the finger at other teams with "they use the same rules blah blah blah", Merc have the budget and muscle to work the car to the rules and then some. I remember reading or hearing (can't fully recall) that after the Friday practice, they ran multiple race simulations all through the night to get the set up tight. They applied that to the car and off they went. Not every team can even run a light bulb for the night without factoring it into a budget.

Adamocovic wrote: »

Saw Hulk is on standby while they await the Perez decision.

Would be gutting if he couldn't take the car onto the track for race day.

Is Perez not stuck in quarantine?

Heard a rumour /conspiracy theory that Hulkenburg was sabotaged so he wouldn't outperform young Stroll. Sound daft but not really bound the realms of possibility really.

pyramuid man wrote: »

I wonder is it the race that he filled in for Massa a few years ago that has kept his super license?

Basically - though to be more precise it means that he does not need to do 300km in a modern car before participating in a race.
Turns out Esteban does not have those 300km so although he processes a super licence he is ineligible to step in for eg Sergio or Lewis etc if needed !

Infoanon wrote: »

Basically - though to be more precise it means that he does not need to do 300km in a modern car before participating in a race.
Turns out Esteban does not have those 300km so although he processes a super licence he is ineligible to step in for eg Sergio or Lewis etc if needed !

It seems a complete oversight by Mercedes but they plan on getting him the run time ASAP but aren't able to until the next break in races. (By which stage Stoffel will be free anyway)

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He wasn't quicker than Stroll all weekend. If they were sabotaging him all weekend then they were doing a grand job without stopping him from competing in the race. And Perez outperforms Stroll most of the time anyway.

I'd wouldn't mind that idea that they sabotaged him. Most plausible explanation is that hulk is out of practice and hasn't had any time in the car. He wasn't exactly top drawer anyway so it's not like he'd be beating stroll by half a second if he had loads of practice since the start anyway. He'd probably beat Stroll over a season.

The theory I heard was that they were afraid that Hulkenburgs race pace was going to be better than Stroll. It's all a bit far fetched in fairness.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Completely agree with that. Hamilton is a great driver and rarely makes mistakes. But you're completely right to avoid the interviews. Total PR, copy and paste jobs. I find him so Inarticulate and boring to listen to. He was describing the last lap of Silverstone, driving with a burst tyre and Max closing in rapidly and managed to be boring talking about it.

In the car he's probably a genius. Out of the car he's a bore and a dope and saddest of all, a try-hard

Not convinced by the statement Hamilton rarely makes mistakes. In the last five races he’s crashed into Albon twice, he cost himself the first race of this season by earning a penalty in qualifying, and he spun off in qualifying for the last race, which could have cost him badly had it not resulted in a red flag and allowed them to get the car prepared for another run.

It’s easy to make few mistakes when you have the best car by miles and never have to push more than 90%. He had a reputation for making frequent mistakes back when he was at McLaren - that is the main reason Button beat him in their time as teammates.

Not making mistakes in the Merc is pretty easy. Bottas hasn’t made a single mistake so far this year. He won when Hamilton screwed up, and he did exactly what the team wanted in staying comfortably in second and not challenging Hamilton in the other races, right down to slamming on the brakes into turn 1 at Silvestone after he made a superior start to Lewis.

quokula wrote: »

...Bottas hasn’t made a single mistake so far this year. He won when Hamilton screwed up, and he did exactly what the team wanted in staying comfortably in second and not challenging Hamilton in the other races, right down to slamming on the brakes into turn 1 at Silvestone after he made a superior start to Lewis.

You don't think bottas is trying to overtake Hamilton at the starts? I'd say bottas is doing his best and coming up short. Same as Vettel against his teammate and Latifi against his teammate and Kimi against his teammate. I don't buy that any of them are holding back. They're just not as quick.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You don't think bottas is trying to overtake Hamilton at the starts? I'd say bottas is doing his best and coming up short. Same as Vettel against his teammate and Latifi against his teammate and Kimi against his teammate. I don't buy that any of them are holding back. They're just not as quick.

I haven't seen it since so my comment could be way off, but I thought at the time that Bottas let off and didn't challenge Hamilton as much as could have into the first corner and into the second, maybe that was Bottas being cautious as he would with anyone but was how my live but reactive mind saw it at the time

BikeRacer wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's complete rubbish from start to finish. Your consistent anti Merc/Hamilton posts are getting embarrassing now.

Nice job throwing out personal insults and not being able to counter any of the points made.

Pooooooo!