Nissan Leaf 60kWh

slave1 · 26-11-2018 4:54pm #1

Think this model deserves it's own thread rather than being buried in the other Leaf 40 centric thread..

Anyhow, bad news, due to the shenanigans of Nissan's chairman Nissan have officially announced the postponement of the L60 which was to be birthed on November 28th officially....no new date in sight

https://insideevs.com/nissan-postpones-launch-60-kwh-leaf-e-plus/

Damn shame as with thermal management and availability this was certainly in my mind as the next viable upgrade as our L30 is faultless

daheff · 26-11-2018 5:20pm

Not sure about the reverse opening back doors in the picture.

Any word on the 'actual real world' range of this?

Don't think it was due to come available until at least 192 in Ireland in any case. Nissan are probably waiting for the news about their chairman to go away and will then launch the car. Doubt the actual launch date will be delayed.

ELM327 · 26-11-2018 5:50pm

Meanwhile, at nissan hq: If you listen very carefully you can hear it sizzling..

Mike9832 · 26-11-2018 7:06pm

No real surprise, getting house in order

Ghosn was pro EV, Leaf was his brainchild

Who knows what direction the new CEO will take them in regards EVs

Leaf 60kWh was basically an LG Leaf anyway, was never going to be made in volume and cost competitive with drivetrain, batteries etc all made by LG, would have been expensive like the Kona

Not a good day for Evs

GM cut thousands of jobs today and cancelled the Volt

Really need Tesla to start European production of Model 3, the only ones interested in making EVs it seems

Calahonda52 · 26-11-2018 7:42pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

... the only ones interested in making EVs it seems

What about the Chinese, now that US market has tariff wars

Mike9832 · 26-11-2018 7:49pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

What about the Chinese, now that US market has tariff wars

Of course China too with BYD etc

You cant get them here sadly

26-11-2018 8:05pm

Delaying the lauch of the car doesn't undo the development that has already been done. The L60 deliveries won't necessarily be delayed at all from the original planned timeframe of second half of 2019 even if the launch is delayed.

Seen the sales of L40 and lack of volume and availability of competition in Europe there is no great urgency to get this car on the market anyway.

Mike9832 · 26-11-2018 11:03pm

samih wrote: »

Delaying the lauch of the car doesn't undo the development that has already been done. The L60 deliveries won't necessarily be delayed at all from the original planned timeframe of second half of 2019 even if the launch is delayed.

Seen the sales of L40 and lack of volume and availability of competition in Europe there is no great urgency to get this car on the market anyway.

Who knows

Nissan are in disarray now

Huge power struggle behind the scenes, Japs are not exactly fans of EVs either, if they get more control who knows what direction they will go

Nissan have made a right mess of things, from a pioneer/leader in electric vehicles with the before it's time Leaf in 2010

10 years later in 2020 they have an LG 60kWh Leaf

4 years after GM released the LG 60kWh Chevy Bolt

What a disaster

Round Cable · 26-11-2018 11:31pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Huge power struggle behind the scenes, Japs are not exactly fans of EVs either, if they get more control who knows what direction they will go

The other main Japanese manufacturers went with hydrogen fuel cells, Nissan stood alone in East Asia with battery cars. Nissan were also pretty pissed off with Ghosn's plans for further integration with Renault. So you wouldn't know what is actually going on with this corporate drama.

n97 mini · 26-11-2018 11:47pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

4 years after GM released the LG 60kWh Chevy Bolt

And such a shame we'll never get that here. I would have bought one in a heartbeat.

unkel · 27-11-2018 12:35am

n97 mini wrote: »

And such a shame we'll never get that here. I would have bought one in a heartbeat.

You can buy a Kona. Very similar in range / specs / price. The few tests I've seen in Kona vs Bolt and the Kona edged it in all of them. Why didn't you buy a Kona?

unkel · 27-11-2018 12:36am

samih wrote: »

Delaying the lauch of the car doesn't undo the development that has already been done. The L60 deliveries won't necessarily be delayed at all from the original planned timeframe of second half of 2019 even if the launch is delayed.

Agreed. It was never going to be a 2019 car over here anyway. 2020 at the earliest...

27-11-2018 11:53am

As of Bolt: In my opinion GM released the car too early while the battery cells were still too expensive and had to build the rest of car on tight budget and still loose money on each unit (maybe changed by now). They also made dangly objects of the battery cooling system limiting the attainable charging rate compared to what the battery cells could do.

L40 (and ealier 24/30) have actually been profitable for Nissan. We'll see what will happen with the ejection of Ghosn over there but it would be foolish not to launch a car that is ready to go. Development=cost, sales=revenue to counter the development cost.

Shefwedfan · 27-11-2018 3:16pm

Was it ever confirmed as been launched this year from Nissan?

I find it strange they would announce the replacement when the L40 is still selling strong, especially in November if they not going to be able to sell till 2H of next year. That would just kill all the L40 sales in January

My opinion is it would be announced in 2019 and start shipping in 2020. That would be 3 years after the L40 got launched and give them time to make a few quid out of it.

ELM327 · 27-11-2018 3:28pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Was it ever confirmed as been launched this year from Nissan?

I find it strange they would announce the replacement when the L40 is still selling strong, especially in November if they not going to be able to sell till 2H of next year. That would just kill all the L40 sales in January

My opinion is it would be announced in 2019 and start shipping in 2020. That would be 3 years after the L40 got launched and give them time to make a few quid out of it.

They said Q2 2019 at the last IEVOA AGM

n97 mini · 27-11-2018 3:37pm

unkel wrote: »

You can buy a Kona. Very similar in range / specs / price. The few tests I've seen in Kona vs Bolt and the Kona edged it in all of them. Why didn't you buy a Kona?

1. Not released here yet
2. Too expensive
3. We don't buy brand new cars

However if I could have bought a 2 or 3 year old Bolt it'd be perfect.

Shefwedfan · 27-11-2018 4:10pm

ELM327 wrote: »

They said Q2 2019 at the last IEVOA AGM

Yes which would be more inline with the product cycle. You don't announce the replacement in the middle of growth phase. Would seem stupid to me.

Like it they announced now they wouldn't have got a January selling window with the current Leaf 2

you would have to be crazy to announce this year

KCross · 27-11-2018 4:21pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Was it ever confirmed as been launched this year from Nissan?

I find it strange they would announce the replacement when the L40 is still selling strong, especially in November if they not going to be able to sell till 2H of next year. That would just kill all the L40 sales in January

My opinion is it would be announced in 2019 and start shipping in 2020. That would be 3 years after the L40 got launched and give them time to make a few quid out of it.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yes which would be more inline with the product cycle. You don't announce the replacement in the middle of growth phase. Would seem stupid to me.

Like it they announced now they wouldn't have got a January selling window with the current Leaf 2 you would have to be crazy to announce this year

Your assumption is that its a replacement. It wont be, imo. It'll be a good €5k more to buy over the L40 simply because its only competition is low volume Kona's at €38k

Announcing an L60 at €4-5k more than an L40 wont affect sales at all. It'll probably add sales if anything.

Shefwedfan · 27-11-2018 4:37pm

KCross wrote: »

Your assumption is that its a replacement. It wont be, imo. It'll be a good €5k more to buy over the L40 simply because its only competition is low volume Kona's at €38k

Announcing an L60 at €4-5k more than an L40 wont affect sales at all. It'll probably add sales if anything.

It will hurt sales of the L40, no matter if it is a replacement or not.

Once the two cars didn't get launched at the same time it doesn't matter how they paint it, it will be seen as a replacement. Cue people looking for discounts on the L40 when it should be selling at near list

The L60 is 35k and the L40 is 30k....but the L40 doesn't have cooling so I should get it at 28k etc etc etc....plus every single person on this forum will chance their arm at trying to get one cheap....just look over the Leaf 2 thread and everyone saying they would buy L40 if it is cheap after the L60 replacement is announced....

For Nissan the horse has bolted. It's not like they held the price on the L24 when the L30 was released, oh wait now :-)

KCross · 27-11-2018 4:42pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It will hurt sales of the L40, no matter if it is a replacement or not.

Once the two cars didn't get launched at the same time it doesn't matter how they paint it, it will be seen as a replacement. Cue people looking for discounts on the L40 when it should be selling at near list

The L60 is 35k and the L40 is 30k....but the L40 doesn't have cooling so I should get it at 28k etc etc etc....

For Nissan the horse has bolted.

Nah.
The car will look and feel the exact same as the L40 except a higher powered motor and larger battery. They will charge a premium for that and customers will have to decide if they can afford it or need it or not.

Its the same as every other manufacturer is doing.....
Mode S 75, 90, 100
Kona and Niro 39 and 64
VW low, med, high range models for the ID

How is it any different?

The lack of cooling in the L40 will be a decision point for customers but it wont cause L40 sales to tank. If it does, so what, it means they are now selling loads of 64kWh Leafs which presumably will be coming off the very same line... the car is essentially the same. If everyone decides to buy a 64kWh version with the added premium I'm sure Nissan will be delighted as there will be likely more margin in it. But the price will keep people buying L40's for quite a while yet.

Shefwedfan · 27-11-2018 5:06pm

KCross wrote: »

How is it any different?

Both product not launched at the same time means it will be seen as a replacement.

They have a history already, when the L30 was announced the price of the L24 fell dramatically.

When the L40 was coming out, the L24 was sold off for next to nothing(20k for top of the range) and the L30 dropped in price

You can't decide then for the Leaf 2 you want to try and hold up the price on the original.

I said it all along Nissan would come to regret flogging off the older model once the shiny new one came.....

KCross · 27-11-2018 5:57pm

I think you're missing a few important points in that analysis

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Both product not launched at the same time means it will be seen as a replacement.

If the car is physically the same to look at, it wont make any difference. Resale value really only gets hit when there is a facelift model or an entirely new model which I dont believe applies here at all.

The only other reason for the L40 to lose sales or be downgraded in price is if they dont add a premium for the L60, which I cant see them doing.

There is also a big difference between an L40 and an L60. The L40 is 36kWh usable. The L60(??) is by all accounts an LG Chem battery like the Kona so actually an L64 and thats 64kWh usable. So, its a big jump up in battery size. If the only competition they have is a €38k Kona why would they drop the price of the L60 Leaf to L40 levels? To use your own words, they'd be crazy to do that when the market isnt forcing them.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They have a history already, when the L30 was announced the price of the L24 fell dramatically.

Very different scenario. The L24 was on the market for 7 years before the L30 came out and the world had moved on with the introductions of the Ioniq, eGolf etc all on the market offering a better product so that was a necessity driven by the market and the age of the product. Again, doesnt apply here. The L40 isnt even out 12 months yet.

And the L40 is actually more expensive than the L30 so that goes against your theory in itself.

A top of the line L24 SVE was €28k. You'll pay €32k for an L40 SVE. Expect an L60 SVE to be €36k+, imo.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

When the L40 was coming out, the L24 was sold off for next to nothing(20k for top of the range) and the L30 dropped in price

That was end of line stock. They didnt sell L24's for that price for months on end. End of line models always get sold off cheaply or get extras added for no extra cost. Thats just normal business and hasnt affected the resale of L24 at all. Just because they sell the last few hundred L24's at a knock down price doesnt mean all existing L24's are immediately down a few grand on resale. Thats not how the market works.

KCross · 27-11-2018 6:01pm

And of course, all of the above is irrelevant if your VW predictions of a large volume €25k Neo come true in 2020.

If that really happens then everyone will have to significantly drop their prices because you would be a fool to pay €38k for a Kona/Niro or €30k+ for a Leaf if you can buy a VW for €25k.

Lets all hope your wishful thinking comes true.

ELM327 · 27-11-2018 6:03pm

+1
Anyone selling a proper range EV for 25k will sell all of them that they produce.
And obliterate everything else!

Shefwedfan · 27-11-2018 6:07pm

Not sure why discussing...it wont pop its head up till 2020 anyway :-)

Shefwedfan · 27-11-2018 6:07pm

KCross wrote: »

And of course, all of the above is irrelevant if your VW predictions of a large volume €25k Neo come true in 2020.

If that really happens then everyone will have to significantly drop their prices because you would be a fool to pay €38k for a Kona/Niro or €30k+ for a Leaf if you can buy a VW for €25k.

Lets all hope your wishful thinking comes true.

We will just have to wait and see

liamog · 27-11-2018 7:04pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

We will just have to wait and see

Watched the Robert Llewellyn interview with Ben from Teslanomics, he references insider info that can't yet be released from VW and Honda that will be a sea change in the non high end EV market. If true, Nissan will need to price the L60 at L40 levels, to remain competitive.

KCross · 27-11-2018 7:17pm

liamog wrote: »

Watched the Robert Llewellyn interview with Ben from Teslanomics, he references insider info that can't yet be released from VW and Honda that will be a sea change in the non high end EV market. If true, Nissan will need to price the L60 at L40 levels, to remain competitive.

Must take a look at that.
Is Ben just another youtuber or has he got more credentials than that?

What have Honda announced so far.... just the Honda Urban, isnt it? They've been staying very quiet if they have a "sea change" EV coming.

Shefwedfan · 27-11-2018 7:45pm

KCross wrote: »

Must take a look at that.
Is Ben just another youtuber or has he got more credentials than that?

What have Honda announced so far.... just the Honda Urban, isnt it? They've been staying very quiet if they have a "sea change" EV coming.

Honda Urban but they seem to have a US electric car, Honda Clarity.

The Urban is due for release next year, but they said it won't be cheap.....

VW, well we all know that is the main news

liamog · 27-11-2018 7:45pm

KCross wrote: »

Must take a look at that.
Is Ben just another youtuber or has he got more credentials than that?

What have Honda announced so far.... just the Honda Urban, isnt it? They've been staying very quiet if they have a "sea change" EV coming.

Well Ben is interviewing Robert Llewellyn, he's the one with the credentials ...

Old diesel · 28-11-2018 5:31pm

Give it a month or two and the Ghost saga dies down.

Might be a lower key launch so the first you hear of it might be when the media are doing the first drive in Spain/Germany or wherever on the international launch.

Mike9832 · 30-11-2018 4:09am

Old diesel wrote: »

Give it a month or two and the Ghost saga dies down.

Might be a lower key launch so the first you hear of it might be when the media are doing the first drive in Spain/Germany or wherever on the international launch.

Sales in the US are awful, but worse for the Leaf is sales in Japan are also very weak, only Europe is going ok

Leaf is averaging 1400 sales a month in the US , Tesla model 3 did 22,200 in September, this is not counting the close to zero sales that took place waiting on the Leaf 40

When Tesla get Model 3 into Europe expect the same 1:20 battering

Nissan supposedly have only got enough batteries from LG to make 2000 Leaf 60 a month for the first year

VW, Jag, Audi, Hyundai etc have supply taken up until 2021 when new plants are up

Add to that the Japanese partners agitating to break the alliance up and have independent management it doesnt look good for the Leaf 60

Japanese board played a big part in Nissan selling off in house battery plant AESC

30-11-2018 11:51am

If the 2000 battteries a month is true I'm expecting a huge price difference between the L40 and L60 so. And the large battery only for the SVE. 38-39k after grants anybody?

unkel · 30-11-2018 11:58am

Something like that. Provided of course it has CCS charging far quicker than CHAdeMO and also that the #rapidgate is fixed. If Hyundai / Kia can get away with charging late 30s (after a 10k subsidy) for a 400-500km EV, I can's see why Nissan couldn't do the same.

Except that Nissan could charge that now if it had the car, but not for the 201 plates, which is likely to be close to the time that the Model 3 comes out here too which should shake things up nicely

My hope / expectation for 2020: base EVs for around €20-€25k, incl Zoe, Leaf, Ioniq, Neo, etc. Longer range EVs for around €30k and premium EVs like Model 3 for around €40k...

Mike9832 · 30-11-2018 12:38pm

unkel wrote: »

Something like that. Provided of course it has CCS charging far quicker than CHAdeMO and also that the #rapidgate is fixed. If Hyundai / Kia can get away with charging late 30s (after a 10k subsidy) for a 400-500km EV, I can's see why Nissan couldn't do the same.

Except that Nissan could charge that now if it had the car, but not for the 201 plates, which is likely to be close to the time that the Model 3 comes out here too which should shake things up nicely

My hope / expectation for 2020: base EVs for around €20-€25k, incl Zoe, Leaf, Ioniq, Neo, etc. Longer range EVs for around €30k and premium EVs like Model 3 for around €40k...

Yes Model 3 volume production is the game changer

Autogiants won't be able to flog overpriced Leafs, Konas, é-Golfs, i3's anymore when the much superior Tesla Model 3 is available for €40k

All the autogiants EVs are being outsold by a ratio of 20:1 in the US right now

It will be the same in Europe

Scandinavians will lap them up

Who can blame them

500km range , 125kWh charging, 300bhp, almost supercar acceleration for BMW i3 money

Alternatives from the autogiants at the moment is laughable

Ioniq at 26k is the only EV that is decent imo

KCross · 30-11-2018 12:42pm

unkel wrote: »

My hope / expectation for 2020: base EVs for around €20-€25k, incl Zoe, Leaf, Ioniq, Neo, etc. Longer range EVs for around €30k and premium EVs like Model 3 for around €40k...

In that case everyone who buys a €38k Niro or Kona next year is going to suffer massive depreciation in less than 2yrs of ownership.

Are you expecting that to happen?
If yes, there will be alot of disgruntled Hyundai/Kia owners in 2020!

Those people better have good PCP deals with high GMFV's

ELM327 · 30-11-2018 12:44pm

KCross wrote: »

In that case everyone who buys a €38k Niro or Kona next year is going to suffer massive depreciation in less than 2yrs of ownership.

Are you expecting that to happen?
If yes, there will be alot of disgruntled Hyundai/Kia owners in 2020!

Those people better have good PCP deals with high GFMV's

Yes

38-40k for a Kia/Hyundai is mad money.
Model 3 will be low 40's here.

I expect Gen1 Leaf depreciation for those people silly enough to spend ~40k on a Kia/Hyundai

KCross · 30-11-2018 12:54pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes

38-40k for a Kia/Hyundai is mad money.
Model 3 will be low 40's here.

I expect Gen1 Leaf depreciation for those people silly enough to spend ~40k on a Kia/Hyundai

I agree, its mad money.

What surprises me though is that Hyundai priced it so high when most on here think cheap EV's are only 18mths away. Hyundai are not stupid by any stretch of the imagination and I just dont think that they will magically knock €5k-€10k off their prices in a year or two's time.

They must know the market and must know what cars are coming on stream to compete with them. Shafting (big time) the first wave of owners would not be in their interest at all.

I'd love to believe all these cheap EV's are just around the corner but it just seems too good to be true.

The price of the Model 3 will be the benchmark but even Tesla is saying it cant deliver on its $35k car yet so I dont think that €40k Model 3 will appear here in 2020... just my guess. I think Musk said he needed 10k cars a week before he could deliver on the $35k Model 3.

unkel · 30-11-2018 1:18pm

KCross wrote: »

In that case everyone who buys a €38k Niro or Kona next year is going to suffer massive depreciation in less than 2yrs of ownership.

Are you expecting that to happen?
If yes, there will be alot of disgruntled Hyundai/Kia owners in 2020!

First of all, anyone spending the guts of €40k on a Hyundai/Kia long range EV probably did so because they do massive mileage. Their fuel savings are enormous. Total cost of ownership over 3 years is probably lower than if they had bought the equivalent spec / model diesel car for €10k less. Even if the arrival of a €30k 2020 long range Korean means their depreciation takes a massive jump

And it remains to be seen how big the increase of supply of EVs will be from 2020. Apart from Tesla, I haven't really seen any concrete current improvements that hint at such supply (promises like from VAG don't count)

ELM327 · 30-11-2018 1:19pm

KCross wrote: »

I agree, its mad money.

What surprises me though is that Hyundai priced it so high when most on here think cheap EV's are only 18mths away. Hyundai are not stupid by any stretch of the imagination and I just dont think that they will magically knock €5k-€10k off their prices in a year or two's time.

They must know the market and must know what cars are coming on stream to compete with them. Shafting (big time) the first wave of owners would not be in their interest at all.

I'd love to believe all these cheap EV's are just around the corner but it just seems too good to be true.

The price of the Model 3 will be the benchmark but even Tesla is saying it cant deliver on its $35k car yet so I dont think that €40k Model 3 will appear here in 2020... just my guess. I think Musk said he needed 10k cars a week before he could deliver on the $35k Model 3.

Like anyone buying a 2012/2013 leaf you mean?
It happens, particularly with new tech,

Most will ahve been bought on pcp with the worst case scenario being no deposit for the next PCP

KCross · 30-11-2018 1:36pm

unkel wrote: »

First of all, anyone spending the guts of €40k on a Hyundai/Kia long range EV probably did so because they do massive mileage. Their fuel savings are enormous. Total cost of ownership over 3 years is probably lower than if they had bought the equivalent spec / model diesel car for €10k less. Even if the arrival of a €30k 2020 long range Korean means their depreciation takes a massive jump

I'm not sure about that. I think people will buy it because they like the car and they like its a CUV. People rarely buy based on TCO considerations.... they might think again if your 2020 hopes comes true and they see those levels of depreciation.

Your example of high mileage users will have reduced pain for them due to their high fuel bills but there still would be no getting away from the extra depreciation. It would wipe out a very large chunk (if not all) of those savings relative to the equivalent ICE Kona. I would be well pissed about that if it were me.

unkel wrote: »

And it remains to be seen how big the increase of supply of EVs will be from 2020. Apart from Tesla, I haven't really seen any concrete current improvements that hint at such supply (promises like from VAG don't count)

Thats the issue really, isnt it. Tesla and VW are the only ones with talk of big numbers. Tesla wont be cheap and we all have to wait for confirmation of VW's specs, price etc.

Practically all the other annoucements for new EV's are in the luxury high end segment (Merc EQC, Audi eTron, Jaguar iPace etc). All €80k+ cars so they will have very little effect on the market here.

ELM327 wrote: »

Like anyone buying a 2012/2013 leaf you mean?
It happens, particularly with new tech,

Most will ahve been bought on pcp with the worst case scenario being no deposit for the next PCP

We are close to a decade on from the 2011 Leaf which was true early adopter stuff so I can understand it there and the batteries werent as good and that got reflected in resale price. Massive depreciation has not happened from 2013+ (apart from i3 maybe?).

I dont think someone paying €38k for a car in 2019 is going to be happy or expect those levels of depreciation. If that happens it just sets EV adoption back as we often hear of the massive depreciation that EV's have as a blocker to buying one. If it happens again it will just make that excuse true and further slow adoption... not good at all.

If this massive depreciation is going to happen you can be sure the manufacturers will have the GMFV adjusted in their favour.

Anyone know what the PCP deals on a Kona EV are like?

unkel · 30-11-2018 3:04pm

KCross wrote: »

I'm not sure about that. I think people will buy it because they like the car and they like its a CUV. People rarely buy based on TCO considerations...

I guess there are a lot of people out there a bit less rational than yourself or myself when it comes to big purchases

Old diesel · 30-11-2018 3:17pm

Where is the basis for thinking an Irish model 3 could be 40 k.

A Tesla will be sold as a "desirable" product.

50 to 60 k I reckon for a Model 3 depending on spec and how cheeky Tesla are on price.

ELM327 · 30-11-2018 3:27pm

Old diesel wrote: »

Where is the basis for thinking an Irish model 3 could be 40 k.

A Tesla will be sold as a "desirable" product.

50 to 60 k I reckon for a Model 3 depending on spec and how cheeky Tesla are on price.

Been done to death on the model 3 thread
converting US price to Irish prices, using same coefficient as the X, S had.

Won't be 60k for the normal model for sure, I'd guess low 40s

Mike9832 · 30-11-2018 3:35pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Been done to death on the model 3 thread
converting US price to Irish prices, using same coefficient as the X, S had.

Won't be 60k for the normal model for sure, I'd guess low 40s

I would go with low 40s too

Some car for that

Performance alone is unmatched

Can't understand how so little hype here for the Model 3

Its such a huge step up to what is out there now

I have a deposit in for ages now and will definitely be getting if priced in low 40s, which I believe they will

unkel · 30-11-2018 9:30pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Can't understand how so little hype here for the Model 3

Lots of factors. Where to start? A few that spring to mind straight away:

-It ain't real. You can't buy it. There's none in the dealers (or should I say the one Tesla dealer this country has), so you can't even test drive it

-40k is junior executive car money. I doubt anyone reckons the Tesla is made to the same standard as the junior offerings from Audi, BMW, Lexus and Mercedes

-Irish public still behind most other EU countries when it comes to acceptance of EVs

-unfamiliar make - many people buy the same make all their lives, or switch just once or twice when they are really convinced a new make offers a lot extra

-it's a saloon. Most people in Ireland prefer other form factors, like hatchback, estate, cross over, MPV, SUV, etc.

-it's nowhere near a 40k car yet. Not even in the USA. And once the base model comes out over here (that will take the guts of another 2 years - a very long time) and you tick autopilot and one or two other things, it's suddenly almost a 60k car

unkel · 30-11-2018 9:31pm

There was hype for me personally. I had my deposit down. And I was almost certainly going to buy it when it became available (in base form). But then we got a dog and a saloon is not suitable for 5 people and a large dog. So that was the end of the road for me.

Gumbo · 30-11-2018 11:58pm

unkel wrote: »

There was hype for me personally. I had my deposit down. And I was almost certainly going to buy it when it became available (in base form). But then we got a dog and a saloon is not suitable for 5 people and a large dog. So that was the end of the road for me.

Could you not just ship away the family, and you and the dog enjoy the car and road trips

unkel · 01-12-2018 12:20am

kceire wrote: »

Could you not just ship away the family, and you and the dog enjoy the car and road trips

I have the Porsche for that. Strictly a 2 seater (me + dog)

Water John · 01-12-2018 12:44am

Be careful your OH may read this Thread, won't like to be called a dog.

Mike9832 · 04-12-2018 12:14am

Mike9832 wrote: »

Who knows

Nissan are in disarray now

Huge power struggle behind the scenes, Japs are not exactly fans of EVs either, if they get more control who knows what direction they will go

Nissan have made a right mess of things, from a pioneer/leader in electric vehicles with the before it's time Leaf in 2010

10 years later in 2020 they have an LG 60kWh Leaf

4 years after GM released the LG 60kWh Chevy Bolt

What a disaster

Leaf has been delayed

Disaster

https://insideevs.com/nissan-postpones-launch-60-kwh-leaf-e-plus/

Nissan Leaf 60kWh

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