Unlimited electricity - €70 per month

unkel · 07-09-2017 10:29am #1

US utility company Justenergy has started in the Irish market. Anyone check this out and gone ahead? Too good to be true if you have an EV or are a big electricity consumer?

Linky

goz83 · 07-09-2017 10:45am

unkel wrote: »

US utility company Justenergy has started in the Irish market. Anyone check this out and gone ahead? Too good to be true if you have an EV or are a big electricity consumer?

Linky

Yeah, I would say too good to be true alright. My consumption is approx 800 units per month. I accidentally entered 1600 and they wouldn't quote, because it was too low/high. When I corrected it, they were quoting me €140+ per month and I couldn't differentiate between day/night rate even though I had been asked what meter I was using.

My monthly leccy bill seems to average €110-20 with BG. I could have changed provider if I wanted to, because BG changed their conditions 3 weeks ago and I have 30 days if I decide I don't want to accept the terms.

unkel · 07-09-2017 10:49am

You're using near 10MWh per year and you only pay €110 per month? That seems like a very good deal, do you have more than 50% of your usage at the night rate?

Edit: I use 3.5MWh per year (before EV). Put in 5MWh in above link and got a quote for €80 per month (and €62 for 3.5MW). Must do some sums tonight as I can switch next month I think.

bob11 · 07-09-2017 11:06am

I'm not sure if this is really unlimited energy for fixed price ??
I think it is just marketing speak ..
It seems more like a fixed monthly fee

Only available from Just Energy,
the Unlimited Tariff gives you total peace of mind.
Easy to budget - a fixed amount, no matter how much you use Peace of mind - turn up the heat without the worry.
No surprises - no unexpected high bills.
Made to measure - bespoke price based on your energy consumption.
Lock in the price - 12 month contract.
Flexible fuel choices - dual fuel or electricity only

Your monthly price is calculated based on your annual consumption.As a guide, 3 different consumption levels and corresponding monthly prices for dual fuel are shown below.

How it works.
Typically your home uses more energy in winter and less in summer. We equalise your consumption to give you a flat monthly rate, fixed for 12 months.To apply, all we need is your current annual consumption for gas and electricity in kilowatt-hours (kWh). This information can be found on a recent bill or statement of account from your current supplier.Payment must be made by monthly Direct Debit, you must select online billing, and you will also be required to provide monthly meter readings

unkel · 07-09-2017 11:11am

Aye. But do they cover themselves though? They do say "unlimited" and that's exactly that. I can prove that my yearly consumption is about 3.5MWh now. But if I went unlimited I would use the free public fast charging less and the home charging more, upping my use to maybe 5MWh. If there are no penalties for going over the usage you filled in when signing up, I might consider switching.

NIMAN · 07-09-2017 11:15am

I haven't read the link yet, but I would be very skeptical.

I bet it's unlimited like unlimited Internet use, which is usually linked to a lot of small print which talks about reasonable use, making it not unlimited at all.

If it was true, what's to stop me from signing up and running an electric heater all winter in every room in the house 24/7?

unkel · 07-09-2017 11:18am

Aye there can be a fair usage policy even when it says "unlimited", but this is mostly set at several times the average use (all you can eat data / monthly broadband allowance, etc.) so people don't (commercially) exploit it.

And you do have to tick somewhere if you have electric storage heaters. You presumably get a higher quote if you do. And good luck with your fuse having a plug in electric heater in every room switched on at the same time

boardzz · 07-09-2017 11:25am

Seems to be the same system that Bord Gais have. Level Pay.

NIMAN · 07-09-2017 11:34am

I'm on Level Pay from BG

The difference there is that you might be 70 per month now, but if you use a lot of electricity the next time it's reviewed your level pay may be 100 per month.

It goes up and down with your usage. So you mighy get a cheap period, but you're gonna pay for big use soon enough.

unkel · 07-09-2017 11:47am

It clearly states unlimited though. Level pay also means just that, levelling. Spreading your bill over the year. Not unlimited.

goz83 · 07-09-2017 11:47am

unkel wrote: »

You're using near 10MWh per year and you only pay €110 per month? That seems like a very good deal, do you have more than 50% of your usage at the night rate?

Edit: I use 3.5MWh per year (before EV). Put in 5MWh in above link and got a quote for €80 per month (and €62 for 3.5MW). Must do some sums tonight as I can switch next month I think.

Most of my units are night rate. I only switched to night rate when I got the EV, so will be monitoring the monthly use for the year to see what is happening.

I'm on the BG level pay, but they have readjusted it a couple of times already. Total waste of time imo. They should just bill normally by units used.

goz83 · 07-09-2017 11:48am

unkel wrote: »

It clearly states unlimited though. Level pay also means just that, levelling. Spreading your bill over the year. Not unlimited.

I have argued "unlimited" for years with telecomms companies. In the end, they redefined the use of unlimited to mean "always available".

unkel · 07-09-2017 11:56am

I've had unlimited internet use from Virgin for a very long time (I was one of the test areas for cable broadband in Ireland). The terms were mostly explicitly "unlimited" but at some point introduced fair use limits. I have gone over these limits many, many times but never got any sanction.

Maybe I'll give this crowd a call later and see what they say.

NIMAN · 07-09-2017 11:58am

Unlimited doesn't mean always on, those telecoms companies certainly know how to bluff.

Surely 'constant' would be a better word than unlimited.

goz83 · 07-09-2017 12:04pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Unlimited doesn't mean always on, those telecoms companies certainly know how to bluff.

Surely 'constant' would be a better word than unlimited.

They're just a bunch of scum and will say and do anything to get away with an extra cent. Unlimited can't mean always on, because the feckin networks aren't always on. We have outages, which would then see them break their own terms with regards to their spoken definition of the word unlimited. They won't put anything on paper of course.

NIMAN · 07-09-2017 12:08pm

There's a thread currently running in the EIR forum where a customer has unlimited Internet use, which is capped at 1tb.

It makes for interesting reading, especially as 1tb isn't such a huge limit as it used to be.

Yet Eir love using the word unlimited in their advertising campaigns.

unkel · 07-09-2017 12:14pm

LOL, I download more than 1TB in just one day sometimes

jimmycrackcorm · 07-09-2017 12:26pm

It seems to good to be true. Also bizarre that you basically choose your usage to arrive at a monthly cost. So I don't get how that works.

I'd sign over right now of I could figure out exactly what monthly rate is be paying and I'd buy a couple of electric heaters and use the dryer ask the time.

lucast2007us · 07-09-2017 12:36pm

I'm confused as all hell also
does this mean I can use unlimited electricity for â‚¬75 a month??

NIMAN · 07-09-2017 12:38pm

lucast2007us wrote: »

I'm confused as all hell also
does this mean I can use unlimited electricity for â‚¬75 a month??

That's what the big print says, just wonder what the small print says.

If it's truly unlimited, why are they asking you about your usage, and why does the monthly fee change depending on what you put in?

Shefwedfan · 07-09-2017 12:43pm

I pay a monthly set amount 87 per month with Energia, it hasn't changed since I started using electric car but we did swap machine machine etc to night only use....

I would say we are heavy electric users, just based on the amount of electrical items in the house.....between tv/media players/laptop etc etc all connected up.

I would guess I am the market they are trying to target.

jimmycrackcorm · 07-09-2017 12:48pm

unkel wrote:

It clearly states unlimited though. Level pay also means just that, levelling. Spreading your bill over the year. Not unlimited.

As long as it doesn't end up with a situation like that on the current eir thread about unlimited BB usage being advertised but limited to 1TB.

Mrs Corm always gives out to me ant leaving lights on by asking if I have a friend in the ESB. This plan might shut her up.

KCross · 07-09-2017 12:57pm

The catch is that you have to provide your bill to prove your annual consumption before you signup. They then set a monthly cost based on that which isn't cheap at all.... e.g. enter 5000 units and they quote you about €1000 for that. Thats not exactly cheap, is it?

Their other plans are about 15c/9c which isn't cheap either so you can be sure their "unlimited" account isn't much better. Energia are still the cheapest.

The only possible loophole is that you increase your consumption after you signup. Im sure the small print will say something about that because everyone will have the same idea and they also say you have to provide monthly meter readings so I bet you they will have something in the T&C's to cover themselves.

Payment must be made by monthly Direct Debit, you must select online billing, and you will also be required to provide monthly meter readings.

It sounds like its just level pay with spin!

noc1980 · 07-09-2017 12:59pm

Tellingly the unlimited option is the only plan that you can't pay annually, which suggests to me your rates will be reviewed and adjusted every month. If it were annual it might be worth signing up for as you'd have 12 months before they could revise your rates. Give a set price for a year, with an assurance that your supply can't be cut during that time and I'll take unlimited to mean just that.

jimmycrackcorm · 07-09-2017 1:01pm

unkel wrote:

I've had unlimited internet use from Virgin for a very long time (I was one of the test areas for cable broadband in Ireland). The terms were mostly explicitly "unlimited" but at some point introduced fair use limits. I have gone over these limits many, many times but never got any sanction.

Virgin has actually been completely unlimited since feb 2013, though their explanation is very confusing to read.

NIMAN · 07-09-2017 1:57pm

This dream deal is starting to sound not so attractive already.

You can bet this company will end up on Boards, LiveLine etc in the future, being moaned about.

As always folks, if it sounds too good to be true...

unkel · 07-09-2017 2:02pm

They have over 2 million customers in their native USA. Not that this means everything because there are thousands of people in this country on the terrible prepaid deals. Met a Leaf owner the other day who not only did not have a night meter, but charged his car on this prepaid rate. And he installed his own EVSE, wired it off an existing socket :eek:

loyatemu · 07-09-2017 2:57pm

put in my annual usage, it returned the exact monthly amount I'm currently paying to Energia. Which in fairness is pretty cheap (Energia were the cheapest when I compared last November).

cros13 · 07-09-2017 2:57pm

unkel wrote: »

They have over 2 million customers in their native USA.

According to the CDC 5.3 million people in the US suffer from the effects of traumatic brain injury. Just sayin'

loyatemu · 07-09-2017 3:34pm

cros13 wrote: »

According to the CDC 5.3 million people in the US suffer from the effects of traumatic brain injury. Just sayin'

never mind that - 62 million of them voted for Trump.

unkel · 07-09-2017 4:28pm

cros13 wrote: »

According to the CDC 5.3 million people in the US suffer from the effects of traumatic brain injury. Just sayin'

100 million of the people in the USA reckon they were abducted by aliens and 150 million people in the USA say they're Irish

07-09-2017 5:36pm

We'll never see unlimited electricity if that were true then I'd upgrade all my heating to the new more efficient storage heaters.

Or rather if it was unlimited I wouldn't actually need storage heaters.

If I had electric heating and EV then I'd almost certainly need 3 phase but we really should be using electricity for as much as we can.

ELM327 · 08-09-2017 10:40am

Quoted me as follows:
summary
Estimated Annual Bill:
€1848

Which is within the ballpark of what I pay now.

08-09-2017 11:19am

So where is it unlimited then ? ridiculous.

boardzz · 08-09-2017 11:26am

Deleted User wrote: »

So where is it unlimited then ? ridiculous.

Advertising standards authority don't care.
Meteor/Eir are constantly advertising unlimited data and broadband.
Complaints are always upheld but they are just told to stop running that particular advert.
Unlimited term can be used as long as 1% of customers don't use more than the allocated allowance.

So if more than 1% of customers go over the amount of electricity they enter on signup, this company will need to stop using the term unlimited.

jimmycrackcorm · 08-09-2017 2:06pm

noc1980 wrote:

Tellingly the unlimited option is the only plan that you can't pay annually, which suggests to me your rates will be reviewed and adjusted every month. If it were annual it might be worth signing up for as you'd have 12 months before they could revise your rates. Give a set price for a year, with an assurance that your supply can't be cut during that time and I'll take unlimited to mean just that.

Well it dies say that you are fixing it for 12 months so it can't change. Perhaps there might be something in the small print but my guess is that after 12 months they're betting you will stay using a new higher price and comparing with other suppliers based on your now increased usage means you'll stay.

Jakey Rolling · 08-09-2017 2:10pm

They quoted me €88/month for 5500kWh usage (rural day night meter)
This works out at about €150 less than I'm paying with Bord Gais (with their 5% discount on units used)

I almost signed up, but called BG to see if they could match and they gave me €100 cash back to stay with them.
I also sometimes use my Tesco tokens against Bord Gais bills, so I can make up the other €50 that way if I want.

Whatever the deal, a new entrant to the market is useful to shake things up and provide a bit of leverage!

KCross · 12-09-2017 10:39am

@unkel
I'm currently changing provider myself right now and asked this crowd what the story was if you use more than quoted. They said its free!

So, the way it works is...

- You prove your last 12 months of usage and they give you an all inclusive quote to cover that same amount for the next 12 months.
- It doesn't matter if you use less or more in that 12 months you pay what is in your quote upto a max of 10000kWh.
- On the next year they will obviously realign the quote to your new usage level but you will be out of contract at that point so you can just move again.

So, if you switch based on your current usage and then start charging your EV at home you would in effect get several thousand kWh's for free.

I don't think their marketing department have allowed for EV's being added mid contract!!!

So, you'll get away with it for year 1.

BoatMad · 12-09-2017 11:34am

KCross wrote: »

@unkel
I'm currently changing provider myself right now and asked this crowd what the story was if you use more than quoted. They said its free!

So, the way it works is...

I don't think their marketing department have allowed for EV's being added mid contract!!!

So, you'll get away with it for year 1.

I expect max over-usage terms to be added,I suspect

KCross · 12-09-2017 12:01pm

BoatMad wrote: »

I expect max over-usage terms to be added,I suspect

Yes, thats in my post... 10000kWh... once you hit that they will be on the blower!

n97 mini · 12-09-2017 12:04pm

Just tried it. Annual consumption over the last 12 months was 3500kw/h (split 50-50 day-night). Works out about 70 euro more expensive than currently (730 vs 660 currently).

BoatMad · 12-09-2017 12:04pm

KCross wrote: »

Yes, thats in my post... 10000kWh... once you hit that they will be on the blower!

EV would easily exceed 10,000 units in 12 months, so essentially they are outside the offer anyway

flaneur · 12-09-2017 12:11pm

It doesn't really make sense as there's only so many ways for them to source energy and it costs quite a bit. Ireland doesn't have vast hydro or nuclear sources, most of our power still comes from burning natural gas.

BoatMad · 12-09-2017 12:17pm

flaneur wrote: »

It doesn't really make sense as there's only so many ways for them to source energy and it costs quite a bit. Ireland doesn't have vast hydro or nuclear sources, most of our power still comes from burning natural gas.

about 40% of power generated on the island , is from Gas. renewables are closing at 30% , coal,peat, and interconnectors the rest

KCross · 12-09-2017 12:17pm

BoatMad wrote: »

EV would easily exceed 10,000 units in 12 months, so essentially they are outside the offer anyway

I wouldn't say easily.
10000 units of EV charging is about 70k km's worth of EV driving.

The average for a household is about 3800kWh's for the entire house and then add on your EV charging on top would be less than 10,000 for most people.

I do about 30k km's in my EV and I think I'm using <400 units per month on the EV.

BoatMad · 12-09-2017 12:19pm

unkel wrote: »

They have over 2 million customers in their native USA. Not that this means everything because there are thousands of people in this country on the terrible prepaid deals. Met a Leaf owner the other day who not only did not have a night meter, but charged his car on this prepaid rate. And he installed his own EVSE, wired it off an existing socket :eek:

There is no ETCI rules on EVSE installs, a 16A one can quite be legitimately installed of a standard ring or radial and can be installed by the householder in the same way as any appliance can be so installed

32A EVSE will require direct feeds from the board, and its only the mods to the board that needs RECI involvement

The ESB install methodology is not mandatory per se

unkel · 12-09-2017 4:12pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Annual consumption over the last 12 months was 3500kw/h (split 50-50 day-night)

Wow that's low! I'm 3500kWh myself but that's last year (before the EV). I take it no more than 1500kWh is EV - so you do only about 10k km per year (average 15kWh/100km)?

unkel · 12-09-2017 4:16pm

KCross wrote: »

@unkel
I'm currently changing provider myself right now and asked this crowd what the story was if you use more than quoted. They said its free!

So, the way it works is...

- You prove your last 12 months of usage and they give you an all inclusive quote to cover that same amount for the next 12 months.
- It doesn't matter if you use less or more in that 12 months you pay what is in your quote upto a max of 10000kWh.
- On the next year they will obviously realign the quote to your new usage level but you will be out of contract at that point so you can just move again.

So, if you switch based on your current usage and then start charging your EV at home you would in effect get several thousand kWh's for free.

I don't think their marketing department have allowed for EV's being added mid contract!!!

So, you'll get away with it for year 1.

That's exactly what I was hoping / expecting. I'll be signing up with them so

I've no intention of taking the p1ss, like buying electric heaters, heating my remaining hot water (after solar) with the immersion, driving the bejaysus many thousand extra km in Ioniq, etc.

But I can prove I only used 3500kWh per year and I will plug in at home more (and not wait until midnight to put the dishwasher on)

pawrick · 12-09-2017 4:41pm

so basically if you switch to home charging for your car you could get free charging for a year under this deal from what I've read above (didnt read well enough I see KCross already said this). My annual consumption is only 3370 kWh but I don't have an electric car to charge.

n97 mini · 13-09-2017 10:12am

unkel wrote: »

Wow that's low! I'm 3500kWh myself but that's last year (before the EV). I take it no more than 1500kWh is EV - so you do only about 10k km per year (average 15kWh/100km)?

We have the Leaf exactly one year.

I can't be sure how much it is adding to the bill but your estimate is probably correct as it gets charged about twice a week at home, picking up around 15kw/h each time (20% to 80%), so yeah, around 1500kw/h on the bill in the year. You're pretty bang on with the distance estimate too... we've done 11000km (give or take) in the year. I think the average consumption is 13.8kw/h per 100km at the moment.

So for completeness the Leaf cost (inc VAT) approx €105 in fuel last year.

And also for completeness the ICE (Civic IMA) did about 16000km last year at an average economy of 5.1L/100km (55mpg). Cost of fuel was approx €1100.

And in comparison what cost the Leaf €105 to do, would have cost €756 to do in the Civic IMA.

BoatMad · 13-09-2017 10:53am

we charge from 40% to full every night 6 days a week, on Energia night rate 6.35 cents, we use around 700-900 Kwh a month , so upwards of 10K kwh a year

we have found since we pushed the dishwasher and washing machine into the night rate, the bill for the car has resulted in an average 20 euros a month additional to the bill from before the night rate was installed, and where we were on the standard Electric Ireland tariffs

Unlimited electricity - €70 per month

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