One year on from Ms Cash's impassioned speech

Edgware · 22-09-2019 1:23pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

you know the way when you are unemployed and you get called in to the social welfare office ever few months to see how you are getting on finding a job. does this ever happen to travellers?

Mod. Transfer to Humour section

tuxy · 22-09-2019 2:43pm

Micah Teeny Milkshake wrote: »

Shetland?

It's definitely a Shelton not Shetland, Margret said so herself.

Ha Long Bay · 22-09-2019 2:56pm

tuxy wrote: »

It's definitely a Shelton not Shetland, Margret said so herself.

You should at least be able to spell pony correctly before being allowed own one.

tuxy · 22-09-2019 3:08pm

john4321 wrote: »

You should at least be able to spell pony correctly before being allowed own one.

Culture

poney (plural poneys)

Archaic form of pony.

Odelay · 22-09-2019 3:15pm

tuxy wrote: »

It's definitely a Shelton not Shetland, Margret said so herself.

So the mother died at birth, yet must have been able to suckle it for her to be “well weaned from the mother”??

Odelay · 22-09-2019 3:31pm

And she’ll be adding to more sad statistics.

https://www.thejournal.ie/blinkers-documentary-horse-killings-irish-councils-4816162-Sep2019/

punisher5112 · 22-09-2019 4:00pm

john4321 wrote: »

You should at least be able to spell pony correctly before being allowed own one.

She was thinking of money not poney

Orderofchaos · 22-09-2019 4:51pm

Is Ms Cash still out regularly campaigning for the rights of the homeless or has that come to an end?

It wasnt me123 · 22-09-2019 5:12pm

Odelay wrote: »

And she’ll be adding to more sad statistics.

https://www.thejournal.ie/blinkers-documentary-horse-killings-irish-councils-4816162-Sep2019/

And its the governments fault - not because these horse owners are irresponsible, no its the governments fault for making the impound fees so high and no-where in the whole article did it mention travelers and the fact that they are the ones abandoning their horses in shocking conditions.

punisher5112 · 22-09-2019 5:23pm

Orderofchaos wrote: »

Is Ms Cash still out regularly campaigning for the rights of the homeless or has that come to an end?

No she isn't, she will keep her mouth shut but unfortunately not her legs....

She is on the gravy train... No need to advertise this now she has it all.

Thelonious Monk · 22-09-2019 6:05pm

I don't think there's any point in blaming Cash for any of this. Traveller women start knocking out kids in their teens and aren't given any chances to interact with the real world. So how is she supposed to work or get an education?

BattleCorp · 22-09-2019 6:09pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't think there's any point in blaming Cash for any of this. Traveller women start knocking out kids in their teens and aren't given any chances to interact with the real world. So how is she supposed to work or get an education?

Where's the benefit for the likes of her getting a job? A job won't provide as much for her and her family as the State will.

Thelonious Monk · 22-09-2019 6:11pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Where's the benefit for the likes of her getting a job? A job won't provide as much for her and her family as the State will.

Well she never had a chance to get a job because she was knocked up as a teenager

BattleCorp · 22-09-2019 6:13pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well she never had a chance to get a job because she was knocked up as a teenager

And to hell with the consequences. Mr. Taxpayer will pick up the tab.

The system needs to be changed to disinsentivise people from choosing this kind of lifestyle.

Thelonious Monk · 22-09-2019 6:16pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

And to hell with the consequences. Mr. Taxpayer will pick up the tab.

The system needs to be changed to disinsentivise people from choosing this kind of lifestyle.

Well she didn't choose it. Traveller women don't have a choice. They are oppressed.

BattleCorp · 22-09-2019 6:23pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well she didn't choose it. Traveller women don't have a choice. They are oppressed.

Oppressed by other travellers.

I didn't stop her from going to school. The State put up no impediment to her going to school. You didn't stop her from going to school and getting an education. In fact, if you are in your 40's, you probably chipped in for her to go to school.

Who oppressed her?

Thelonious Monk · 22-09-2019 6:29pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Oppressed by other travellers.

I didn't stop her from going to school. The State put up no impediment to her going to school. You didn't stop her from going to school and getting an education. In fact, if you are in your 40's, you probably chipped in for her to go to school.

Who oppressed her?

Traveller culture means she's uneducated and pregnant as a teen. What chance did she have really? What was she going to do, run away and make it on her own with no support network?

tuxy · 22-09-2019 6:33pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Traveller culture means she's uneducated and pregnant as a teen. What chance did she have really? What was she going to do, run away and make it on her own with no support network?

Traveller culture is now protected as an ethnic minority to insure that young girls will be married off and pregnant before the age of 18. Why is this government policy?
I can see Margret being very disappointed if she is not a grandmother by the time her daughter turns 17.

BattleCorp · 22-09-2019 6:35pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Traveller culture means she's uneducated and pregnant as a teen. What chance did she have really? What was she going to do, run away and make it on her own with no support network?

So, she was oppressed by travellers because it's their culture to oppress women. And oppress men if they try get education and jobs. Yet the State continually gets the blame because of the 'plight' of the travellers.

Loads of facilities are there for travellers to abandon the harmful elements of their culture but they won't do it because it's easier to stay a traveller. It's easier to go around with the hand out rather than doing a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. That's an absolutely alien concept for them.

How are the settled community supposed to help then? The only solution I can see is to force them to abandon their culture and to row in with the rest of society.

Thelonious Monk · 22-09-2019 6:43pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

So, she was oppressed by travellers because it's their culture to oppress women. And oppress men if they try get education and jobs. Yet the State continually gets the blame because of the 'plight' of the travellers.

Loads of facilities are there for travellers to abandon the harmful elements of their culture but they won't do it because it's easier to stay a traveller. It's easier to go around with the hand out rather than doing a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. That's an absolutely alien concept for them.

How are the settled community supposed to help then? The only solution I can see is to force them to abandon their culture and to row in with the rest of society.

It's a tough nut to crack alright, I can't think of any viable solutions. That said, I still think it's unfair to blame Cash for the situation she ended up in, it couldn't really have ended up any other way, she had no opportunities as any other way of life is discouraged by other travellers.

Thelonious Monk · 22-09-2019 6:44pm

tuxy wrote: »

Traveller culture is now protected as an ethnic minority to insure that young girls will be married off and pregnant before the age of 18. Why is this government policy?
I can see Margret being very disappointed if she is not a grandmother by the time her daughter turns 17.

Whether the Gov recognised them as an ethnic minority or not they'd still be married off and pregnant in their teens.

end of the road · 22-09-2019 6:47pm

tuxy wrote: »

Traveller culture is now protected as an ethnic minority to insure that young girls will be married off and pregnant before the age of 18. Why is this government policy?
I can see Margret being very disappointed if she is not a grandmother by the time her daughter turns 17.

it's the traveler people who are protected as an ethnic minority, not the culture itself. and the protection is not to insure young girls will be married off and pregnant before the age of 18.
you only need to take a look at some of the posts from people on this site over the years to know why such protection became government policy and was implimented.

BattleCorp wrote: »

So, she was oppressed by travellers because it's their culture to oppress women. And oppress men if they try get education and jobs. Yet the State continually gets the blame because of the 'plight' of the travellers.

Loads of facilities are there for travellers to abandon the harmful elements of their culture but they won't do it because it's easier to stay a traveller. It's easier to go around with the hand out rather than doing a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. That's an absolutely alien concept for them.

How are the settled community supposed to help then? The only solution I can see is to force them to abandon their culture and to row in with the rest of society.

something that couldn't actually be done in reality and practice. it would be an unachievable goal.
thankfully the harmful elements of their culture are already against the law so those parts can be and to an extent are dealt with.

Thelonious Monk · 22-09-2019 6:48pm

By the way is it legal to keep a feckin' horse in a house in Tallaght or whatever it is? Don't you need licences? I feel awful for the poor thing.

22-09-2019 7:10pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

By the way is it legal to keep a feckin' horse in a house in Tallaght or whatever it is? Don't you need licences? I feel awful for the poor thing.

Ponies are Hardy creatures. They live outside most of the year on most farms, as long as they have a dry stand and ideally a rug, I wouldn't be the slightest bit concerned.

The people who tend to abuse horses tend to be those with no experience of them. We sold a pony to the travellers years ago, still today I wouldn't think twice about it if I knew them. In fact, there's an obvious solution to lack of traveller participation in the workforce and that's to get them involved with racing yards and other equestrian sports from a young age.

pgj2015 · 22-09-2019 7:13pm

one thing that can be done is cut the child benefit after your second child, there is nothing to deter them having 10 plus kids.

tuxy · 22-09-2019 7:23pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

one thing that can be done is cut the child benefit after your second child, there is nothing to deter them having 10 plus kids.

Then they increase their level of crime to compensate, exactly what we need.

Thelonious Monk · 22-09-2019 7:24pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

one thing that can be done is cut the child benefit after your second child, there is nothing to deter them having 10 plus kids.

I really don't think that would stop them, plus more poverty would lead to more problems

HailSatan · 22-09-2019 7:28pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Ponies are Hardy creatures. They live outside most of the year on most farms, as long as they have a dry stabd and ideally a rug, I wouldn't be the slightest bit concerned.
.

You're saying the Cash forever home has a stable or stables?

tuxy · 22-09-2019 7:29pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I really don't think that would stop them, plus more poverty would lead to more problems

I agree just like people say more prisons and longer sentences will lower crime, it doesn't.

tuxy · 22-09-2019 7:30pm

HailSatan wrote: »

You're saying the Cash forever home has a stable or stables?

Maybe it's standard policy now since that incident(still ongoing?) just outside Thurles

Deebles McBeebles · 22-09-2019 7:31pm

HailSatan wrote: »

You're saying the Cash forever home has a stable or stables?

Lets be honest, the horse will be lucky if it gets fed. Costs a nice amount to feed a horse you know.

pgj2015 · 22-09-2019 7:32pm

tuxy wrote: »

Then they increase their level of crime to compensate, exactly what we need.

you cant pander to them, if they want to commit more crime then thrown them in jail like anyone else who commits crime.

tuxy · 22-09-2019 7:33pm

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Lets be honest, the horse will be lucky if it gets fed. Costs a nice amount to feed a horse you know.

In fairness she probably will try to look after it but then end up feeding it pop tarts every morning.

tuxy · 22-09-2019 7:33pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

you cant pander to them, if they want to commit more crime then thrown them in jail like anyone else who commits crime.

Prisons are full.....

HailSatan · 22-09-2019 7:35pm

end of the road wrote: »

it's the traveler people who are protected as an ethnic minority, not the culture itself. and the protection is not to insure young girls will be married off and pregnant before the age of 18.
you only need to take a look at some of the posts from people on this site over the years to know why such protection became government policy and was implimented.

something that couldn't actually be done in reality and practice. it would be an unachievable goal.
thankfully the harmful elements of their culture are already against the law so those parts can be and to an extent are dealt with.

I thought their culture was a key point in them being recognised as separate and distinct from us?

tuxy · 22-09-2019 7:39pm

HailSatan wrote: »

I thought their culture was a key point in them being recognised as separate and distinct from us?

I know they have high levels of inbreeding but even still genetically there is very little to differentiate them from the rest of the Irish population. It's only their culture that makes them different in any way.

22-09-2019 7:41pm

HailSatan wrote: »

You're saying the Cash forever home has a stable or stables?

Stand. Like a hard stand where they can get their legs out of the mud. Beyond that, natural shelter is often sufficient. Ponies don't need stabling as a general rule. A small child can mind a pony, that's why they're such good companions for kids. Teach you a bit of responsibility too..

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 22-09-2019 7:50pm

end of the road wrote: »

thankfully the harmful elements of their culture are already against the law so those parts can be and to an extent are dealt with.

Interesting that you note how the parts of their culture that are against the law are dealt with only "to an extent."

Travellers routinely get away with things that Revenue and the Gardai would absolutely crucify a settled person for.

pgj2015 · 22-09-2019 7:53pm

i would Love to see a three strike rule here like they gave in the U.S

tuxy · 22-09-2019 7:57pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

i would Love to see a three strike rule here like they gave in the U.S

Yes, life in prison for possession of weed has completely stopped all use of the drug in the states with such laws.
Many states are contractually obliged to fill all the prisons outsourced to large powerful companies and the three strike rule is there to ensure that cells are not left empty.

dxhound2005 · 22-09-2019 8:00pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

i would Love to see a three strike rule here like they gave in the U.S

They have 10 times as many prisoners per head. We would need 40,000 prison spaces to match that. And be prepared to look after them from age 18 or 20 up to very old age. There are more and more geriatric prisoners in the USA than ever before, and they are looking at ways of reversing three strikes.

Mr. teddywinkles · 22-09-2019 8:01pm

tuxy wrote: »

Then they increase their level of crime to compensate, exactly what we need.

Then pump all that money into Garda resources. And refine the legal system for repeat offenders.

tuxy · 22-09-2019 8:02pm

Many of the people who are outraged that Margaret Cash is draining €50k a year of the tax payers money want to pay €100k a year to keep her in prison plus the many hundreds of thousands it will cost to re-home her children.

dxhound2005 · 22-09-2019 8:03pm

Kelsey Petite Buggy wrote: »

Interesting that you note how the parts of their culture that are against the law are dealt with only "to an extent."

Travellers routinely get away with things that Revenue and the Gardai would absolutely crucify a settled person for.

Not what I see in the local paper court reports. And not borne out by the number of travellers in prison, far higher per head than the general population.

tayto lover · 22-09-2019 8:03pm

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Then pump all that money into Garda resources. And refine the legal system for repeat offenders.

Not enough prison spaces available and those that are there are for violent prisoners. Travellers form a big percentage of prisoners too.

tuxy · 22-09-2019 8:04pm

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Then pump all that money into Garda resources. And refine the legal system for repeat offenders.

But more prosecutions mean spending millions to build prisons and €100k per prisoner. Where will that money come from?

pgj2015 · 22-09-2019 8:05pm

tuxy wrote: »

Many of the people who are outraged that Margaret Cash is draining €50k a year of the tax payers money want to pay €100k a year to keep her in prison plus the many hundreds of thousands it will cost to re-home her children.

yeah id be happy about that. for me id rather it cost the state a lot of money than let a minority of people behave like animals.

Mr. teddywinkles · 22-09-2019 8:09pm

tuxy wrote: »

But more prosecutions mean spending millions to build prisons and €100k per prisoner. Where will that money come from?

Build it and they will come forth my son. Maybe don't put in the old 55inch h Def there. Let's build them real lean and mean.

tuxy · 22-09-2019 8:09pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

yeah id be happy about that. for me id rather it cost the state a lot of money than let a minority of people behave like animals.

It's not just spending more, it would completely bankrupt the state unless we disbanded the HSE to compensate for the spending. What would you do with all the children of these people who are now in prison?

Fritzbox · 22-09-2019 8:10pm

tuxy wrote: »

But more prosecutions mean spending millions to build prisons and €100k per prisoner. Where will that money come from?

It's called providing security to the nation and giving peace of mind to all its citizens - fear of crime is almost as harmful as crime itself.

Are you suggesting that people who should be locked up for the security and safety of the nation's citizens should not, in fact, be locked up at all?

One year on from Ms Cash's impassioned speech

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