Farage highlighting illegal migration chaos

Cordell · 08-05-2020 1:33pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Actually you didn't say that, you just said contribution. I did interpret that you meant to the economics (which I addressed to klaz), but I also included the social side to it as they have value that doesn't need to be on a balance book.

Well, you interpreted it wrongly, it should have been clear I was about welfare from the quoted post in my reply, quoted post being posted by no one else than you.

[you] they contribute to welfare
[me] they don't
[you] how can you say that they don't contribute to society?!?!

Hope it's all clear now.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 08-05-2020 1:58pm

Cordell wrote: »

Hope it's all clear now.

Yip, you're making up stuff I didn't say.

Cordell wrote: »

Well, you interpreted it wrongly

Eh? I interpreted it as the economics, i.e. welfare/costs, and addressed it to Klaz. As stated, you didn't ask a question of me.
I added the social benefit, which you omitted. You seem fixated on cost/contribution for the welfare budget, which applies to quite a lot of people.

Cordell wrote: »

[you] they contribute to welfare

I said many migrants contribute to welfare. They aren't all low paid workers.

Cordell wrote: »

[me] they don't

Many don't.

Cordell wrote: »

[you] how can you say that they don't contribute to society?!?!

Didn't say that. You don't need to resort to making stuff up. I gave my opinion that low paid workers do contribute to society, even if propped up by the state. I assume you agree, I did't say you didn't.

end of the road · 08-05-2020 2:38pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

or an increase in our birth rate could also solve the issue, but to stay on topic, immigration could very well be the saviour, but why do governments seem to think that means immigration from some of the least educated, most culturally incompatible in the world.

If it was all polish and Latvians I don't think farage's points on immigration would hit home, but its not those that him or the wider group of his supporters are concerned about.

are you sure about that?
i seem to remember farage rabbeting on about the polls and other european immigration at one stage.

Eric Cartman · 08-05-2020 3:47pm

end of the road wrote: »

are you sure about that?
i seem to remember farage rabbeting on about the polls and other european immigration at one stage.

Ill concede he has complained about Roma gypsies and referred to them as Romanians , thats the extent of it as far as I'm aware.

Eric Cartman · 08-05-2020 3:50pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

European citizens don't seem inclined to take on that burden.

Well, we're not going to get sways of Western World immigrants are we? Our best and most educated weren't the typical Irish person that left for foreign lands during our time of mass immigration.

Reduce taxes, reduce taxes, reduce taxes. Our high welfare rate encourages unskilled migration. Cutting personal taxation for incomes 35-150k to a lowest / almost lowest in the EU would encourage swathes of educated professional migrants in.

European professional couples aren't having children because they can't afford them. If you put in massive tax breaks and converted child benefit to a tax credit you would discourage unskilled migrants and the unemployed from having kids but encourage skilled professionals to do so.

Do an education bond , all your school 'voluntary contributions' college registrations, book costs etc.. redeemable against tax paid by your parents.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 08-05-2020 4:05pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

European professional couples aren't having children because they can't afford them.

Do you have something on that (genuinely interested). Each report I’ve seen highlights people’s choice to delay kids, not due to financial reasons. Extra money may just in extra spending in their 20’s/30’s rather that increasing their number of children.

Eric Cartman · 08-05-2020 4:17pm

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Do you have something on that (genuinely interested). Each report I’ve seen highlights people’s choice to delay kids, not due to financial reasons. Extra money may just in extra spending in their 20’s/30’s rather that increasing their number of children.

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/02/cost-raising-kids-parents-happiness/583699/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/05/upshot/americans-are-having-fewer-babies-they-told-us-why.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/your-money/opting-out-of-parenthood-with-finances-in-mind.html

finances and particularly financial insecurity plays a big part in it.

I know even for myself, I'm 30 and won't be having kids, there are some other reasons but I've been self employed since I was 14, my business has pivoted 4 times, Ive had years where I've made well in excess of 100k and other years where id be lucky to see 40k, In my present situation if I needed to pivot again, tighten the belt, sell everything I had and move, live off noodles for 6 months to score a big payday - I could do that in a heartbeat. With kids thats just not on the cards and I haven't made it big enough yet that I'm happy to sit still.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 08-05-2020 5:37pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/02/cost-raising-kids-parents-happiness/583699/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/05/upshot/americans-are-having-fewer-babies-they-told-us-why.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/your-money/opting-out-of-parenthood-with-finances-in-mind.html

finances and particularly financial insecurity plays a big part in it.

I know even for myself, I'm 30 and won't be having kids, there are some other reasons but I've been self employed since I was 14, my business has pivoted 4 times, Ive had years where I've made well in excess of 100k and other years where id be lucky to see 40k, In my present situation if I needed to pivot again, tighten the belt, sell everything I had and move, live off noodles for 6 months to score a big payday - I could do that in a heartbeat. With kids thats just not on the cards and I haven't made it big enough yet that I'm happy to sit still.

In the US, it can be crazy expensive. My friend on the West coast had one child with his wife, both near 40. While they did cite costs in the future, esp college, they also tried briefly (didn’t work out). I mean, we can see that people are getting married later in life as well, affecting family planning.

But we (Europe) have far more generous parental leave (the US can be terrible). Even Scandinavian counties, with people in steady jobs, great time off, etc ... they are struggling to get people to have kids.

Found one of the studies I read, and costs aren’t really a factor in their analysis. https://voxeu.org/article/why-european-women-have-few-babies

Another one that does include costs, but not as the major factor; https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate
“ What makes precise accounting difficult is that the different explanations of declining fertility are not mutually exclusive. But my sense from reading the literature is that over the long-run the two first explanations – women’s empowerment and the increasing well-being and status of children – have been the two most important factors in most places.”

biko · 09-05-2020 2:01pm

People fleeing from France to UK in droves
I didn't even know there was a war in France...

https://news.sky.com/story/140-migrants-intercepted-in-channel-highest-number-in-one-day-11985543

More than 140 migrants intercepted in Channel - highest number in one day
Today, at least five boats and around another 70 migrants have been intercepted, the first at 4.30am. The incidents are ongoing.

A total of 1,900 migrants arrived in the UK by small boat in the whole of 2019.

Kidchameleon · 09-05-2020 2:07pm

biko wrote: »

People fleeing from France to UK in droves
I didn't even know there was a war in France...

https://news.sky.com/story/140-migrants-intercepted-in-channel-highest-number-in-one-day-11985543

Racist!!*

* mods that was a joke in case you didn't pick up on it

4068ac1elhodqr · 09-05-2020 2:15pm

One of the tabloids said it was 150 (10 boats, calm seas and full-ish moon), likely a new record for a single day.

However, this is most likely small change compared to the unfortunate and risky practice of cramming 50 at a time, into a HGV type truck.
Guesstimate the amount coming from France/Belgium in the back of trucks/cars/vans/campers could be in the upper hundreds (even thousands), per week.

Tell me how · 09-05-2020 3:01pm

biko wrote: »

People fleeing from France to UK in droves
I didn't even know there was a war in France...

https://news.sky.com/story/140-migrants-intercepted-in-channel-highest-number-in-one-day-11985543

Thanks for posting a comment which included the following,

A total of 1,900 migrants arrived in the UK by small boat in the whole of 2019.

So much for the country being flooded.

Kidchameleon · 09-05-2020 3:02pm

Tell me how wrote: »

So much for the country being flooded.

One illegal immigrant is too much

Tell me how · 09-05-2020 3:19pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

One illegal immigrant is too much

Yeah?
Why?

And why now?
In these countries?

Kidchameleon · 09-05-2020 3:24pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Yeah?

Yeah

Tell me how wrote: »

Why?

They are a burden on taxpayers and a security risk

Tell me how wrote: »

And why now?

It has always been that way IMHO

Tell me how wrote: »

In these countries?

IMHO, no country should have to deal with illegals, send them straight back from whence they came would be my motto

Eric Cartman · 09-05-2020 3:24pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Yeah?
Why?

And why now?
In these countries?

It was always the way, the same people have been saying the same things for the entire time, this is not new.

Tell me how · 09-05-2020 4:05pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

They are a burden on taxpayers and a security risk

You could argue that everything is a burden on taxpayers if you view it simply as money out without considering what they can bring.

There are benefits from supporting migrants, particularly refugees.

Diversity
Skills which many of them possess and could use to contribute to the country they go to.
Cultural experiences
In many instances, as a recognition for the damage that was done to their country by the government and military of the country they are travelling to.
Empathy for a shared cultural experience of not being safe in your home country.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

IMHO, no country should have to deal with illegals, send them straight back from whence they came would be my motto

I hope you recognize how lucky you are to live in a country in which you feel safe and have adequate opportunities to live life as you wish.

Thankfully most people do, and have an understanding of the hardships which others are continually enduring.

Eric Cartman · 09-05-2020 4:11pm

How is diversity a positive,
Ireland has never conquered another country, so the ‘war guilt’ has no bearing here.
Less than 2% of migrants arriving from syria or claiming to have a 3rd level education.

The facts don’t stack up here.

Tell me how · 09-05-2020 4:12pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

It was always the way, the same people have been saying the same things for the entire time, this is not new.

Obviously they are saying it within a period through which they live but what were their equivalents saying in the 70's/80's when Irish people were being castigated in the UK or in the early 19th century when virtually word for word, the same rhetoric was being said to Irish immigrants to the North Eastern US.

The wheel is always turning, Irish people alive today are largely lucky enough to be so at a time when, in many ways things really have never been much better for the people of the country, but it wasn't always this way.

And if the answer to this point is 'Yeah but the Irish always wanted to work', check out some of the views from the natives towards Irish communities in the cities of America. They were viewed as culturally less worthy, lazy, unhygienic, focused on getting drunk and fighting, being unwilling to integrate and only interested in stories from their home country.

Tell me how · 09-05-2020 4:17pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

How is diversity a positive,
Ireland has never conquered another country, so the ‘war guilt’ has no bearing here.
Less than 2% of migrants arriving from syria or claiming to have a 3rd level education.

The facts don’t stack up here.

The point being made above and largely on this thread was about the UK so in that sense, it very much has a bearing here, and equally if the conversation is broadened to other European countries including Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland etc not to mention the US.

How is diversity a positive? Do you really not have an idea on this?
Here's one example, the world is a global marketplace, the designing of products and services for markets which are different to the typical Western European culture and the marketing and delivering of these products and services will be more successful if workers in the company have an inherent awareness of cultural norms in the market being targeted.

Here's another one, it's Saturday afternoon, how many people across the country are looking forward to their Saturday night takeaway and how many of these will select Asian, Chinese, Indian food as their favourite choice?

Loozer · 09-05-2020 4:22pm

Farage has a raging hard on for migrants

Look where that got Britain with Brexit

statesaver · 09-05-2020 5:22pm

Loozer wrote: »

Farage has a raging hard on for migrants

Look where that got Britain with Brexit

Illegals

Shefwedfan · 09-05-2020 5:26pm

This si all I need to know about Farage

Tell me how · 09-05-2020 5:33pm

^^^^^

But he's a winner apparently.

Kidchameleon · 09-05-2020 6:09pm

Tell me how wrote: »

You could argue that everything is a burden on taxpayers if you view it simply as money out without considering what they can bring.

There are benefits from supporting migrants, particularly refugees.
Diversity

Skills which many of them possess and could use to contribute to the country they go to.

Cultural experiences

In many instances, as a recognition for the damage that was done to their country by the government and military of the country they are travelling to.

Empathy for a shared cultural experience of not being safe in your home country.

I hope you recognize how lucky you are to live in a country in which you feel safe and have adequate opportunities to live life as you wish.

Thankfully most people do, and have an understanding of the hardships which others are continually enduring.

My.... God!

OneEightSeven · 09-05-2020 7:05pm

Tell me how wrote: »

How is diversity a positive? Do you really not have an idea on this?
Here's one example, the world is a global marketplace, the designing of products and services for markets which are different to the typical Western European culture and the marketing and delivering of these products and services will be more successful if workers in the company have an inherent awareness of cultural norms in the market being targeted.

What products and services would those be?

Also, what are your thoughts on MENA & African migrants being overrepresented on sexual violence statistics in countries like Finland and Sweden? Most of those arrived as refugees.

How would MENA and Africans providing services and creating products here make me feel more comfortable that their presence has made my country a more dangerous place for women?

Kidchameleon · 09-05-2020 8:16pm

Careful there oneeightseven, facts like that backed up with evidence can land you in trouble, Ive been there!

DelaneyIn · 09-05-2020 8:33pm

Tell me how wrote: »

So much for the country being flooded.

Indeed.

Britain has up to 1.2 million illegal immigrants, a quarter of all those that have unlawfully entered Europe, an authoritative study has revealed.

The number of illegal immigrants in the UK has doubled in a decade with more than half having lived illegally in the UK for more than five years and a third more than ten years, according to the pan-European analysis by the respected Pew Research Centre.

Only Germany has a similar number of illegal immigrants with between one million and 1.2 million, which means that it and the UK account for half of all those who have unlawfully entered Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/13/12-million-illegal-immigrants-uk-quarter-entire-total-europe/

Only the population of Dublin. Be grand.

Tell me how · 09-05-2020 8:44pm

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Indeed.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/13/12-million-illegal-immigrants-uk-quarter-entire-total-europe/

Only the population of Dublin. Be grand.

Or, another way to put it.

The UK, which invaded all but 22 countries in its history, currently has less than 2% of its population living there illegally.

Kidchameleon · 09-05-2020 8:56pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Or, another way to put it.

The UK, which invaded all but 22 countries in its history, currently has less than 2% of its population living there illegally.

So things that happened 100's of years ago mean the current British population should be indebted?

Farage highlighting illegal migration chaos

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