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Planning Permission for Widening Entrance to Public Road

  • 22-05-2020 11:52pm
    #1
    wrightguy
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭


    Hi folks,

    A farmer is currently widening the entrance to his field which is directly across from our house. He is most likely doing this so he can more easily access it with heavy machinery (combine harvesters, tractors and trailers, slurry tankers etc).

    The entrance directly abuts a narrow public road and is less than 10 metres from our entrance. When heavy machinery enters and exits the field through this entrance, it is difficult for me and my wife to exit the house as our entrance is practically obstructed.The fact that the entrance is now widened makes this worse as the entrance is now directly across from ours.

    Does the farmer need planning permission to widen this entrance? I have read some of the Irish planning law document and saw that widening an entrance is not exempted development for a couple of reasons such as if the road is wider than 4 metres or if it obstructs a right of way. Our road is not more than 4 metres wide but there might be a case for obstruction. In other posts on Boards I have read that widening a vehicular entrance onto a public road nearly always requires planning permission, regardless of the width of the road.

    I will contact my local county council on Monday but if someone here has some information, or has experienced something similar, then please let me know.

    Thanks


Comments

  • #2
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,143 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Do you really want to make an enemy? How often is this is the farmer using the field/ how many days a year is this impacting you?


  • #3
    maestroamado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I cannot understand how an entrance 10 metres away could obstruct your entrance.
    Its a tricky situation and going to Co Council not likely best first move...


  • #4
    the hedgeman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭the hedgeman


    If there was that type of machinery accessing the entrance before and the farmer then widened the same entrance from a safety point of view,there should be no issues really....


  • #5
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    So traffic entering an entrance on the opposite side of the road obscures your view?? That’s hard to understand.

    In reality the amount of days in the year that such tragic access a field is minimal, it only takes seconds for a tractor or combine to enter or leave via an entrance.

    Surely you can wait until the road is clear and then proceed yourself.

    I think there is more to this than what you are saying and possibly your just looking to put one over on your neighbors for some petty reason.


  • #6
    maestroamado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    the hedgeman wrote: »
    If there was that type of machinery accessing the entrance before and the farmer then widened the same entrance from a safety point of view,there should be no issues really....


    You may be correct as the OP said there difficulty already with entrance so this action may actually benefit the situation...


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  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    maestroamado wrote: »
    You may be correct as the OP said there difficulty already with entrance so this action may actually benefit the situation...
    Yeah, a narrow entrance might be slowing things and requiring manoeuvres to get in.
    A wider entrance might be I the OP's benefit if they can get in and out easier and quicker.

    Do you know the farmer otherwise?
    A visit from the county council might not go down well, even if it is fine.


  • #8
    GinSoaked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭GinSoaked


    I'm fairly sure its a planning issue so I'd complain. We have a neighbor that was trying to develop an area without planning permission (use it for glamping and build a house) and he changed the profile of the entrance and widened it. The neighbors that overlooks it complained and it had to be reinstated to a single gate.

    Not sure I'd complain in the OP's case but it depends on the circumstances some land owners just take the piss and need to be stopped others are just using common sense.


  • #9
    maestroamado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    _Brian wrote: »
    So traffic entering an entrance on the opposite side of the road obscures your view?? That’s hard to understand.

    In reality the amount of days in the year that such tragic access a field is minimal, it only takes seconds for a tractor or combine to enter or leave via an entrance.

    Surely you can wait until the road is clear and then proceed yourself.

    I think there is more to this than what you are saying and possibly your just looking to put one over on your neighbors for some petty reason.
    ]


    While i agree with you in principle.


    I do not agree that farm machinery has priority on public roads over motor car traffic.
    Surely its the other way and the tractor waits the few seconds for the car to pass.


  • #10
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,860 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    maestroamado wrote: »
    ]


    While i agree with you in principle.


    I do not agree that farm machinery has priority on public roads over motor car traffic.
    Surely its the other way and the tractor waits the few seconds for the car to pass.

    Neither machine has "priority"

    Standard rules of the road apply here where the vehicle on the road has priority over the vehicle turning onto the road.

    As far as the OP is concerned is very possible this is exempt from permission if the road is less than 4.0, is public, and the works make the entrance safer.


  • #11
    wrightguy
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭wrightguy


    Wow, talk about jumping to conclusions. Who said anything about making an enemy of the farmer? I am just trying to find out information so when I do chat him about it I will know what the planning law is on the matter. When I go to the county council, I am not reporting the farmer but rather finding out what the exact rule(s) are.

    The widening of this gap brings his entrance directly across from our house so now when heavy machinery accesses the field, they have to drive in to our entrance and on our property to turn in. This entrance is used a lot throughout the year and the road in front of our house is always left in a dangerous condition with excessive muck after. He never cleans this up after we ask him. This makes entering/exiting our entrance less safe.

    He could have widened his entrance on the other direction which would have been safer and less obstructive. I should clarify that the distance between the entrance to this field and ours was 10 metres... after the widening it is now approx 5 metres.


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  • #12
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    maestroamado wrote: »
    ]


    While i agree with you in principle.


    I do not agree that farm machinery has priority on public roads over motor car traffic.
    Surely its the other way and the tractor waits the few seconds for the car to pass.
    If OP is exiting their property and a tractor or combine is ok the road entering the entrance opposite then the traffic already on the road has indeed eight of way.

    It’s not a case that cars get priority over tractors or other machinery. There are very specific rules laid out in the rules of the road for each instance and which vehicle takes right if way depending on their road position and who arrives first at a junction etc.


  • #13
    maestroamado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    There is nothing in OP that i can see as to traffic on road but traffic on road has the right to pass.
    I think cars and trucks have priority over tractors as there is higher road tax for these vehicles to reflect this.
    Tractors are agriculture vehicles, cars are road vehicles.
    The rules of the road are the same for everyone, i think if a tractor pulling out in front of a car at a junction is crazy.
    I read a court case some years ago where a bus driver was in court for holding up a line of traffic on public road.
    He was pulled over by off duty garda, he told garda/court he had same rights on road as anyone.
    He lost his license for 1 year...


  • #14
    the hedgeman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭the hedgeman


    wrightguy wrote: »
    Wow, talk about jumping to conclusions. Who said anything about making an enemy of the farmer? I am just trying to find out information so when I do chat him about it I will know what the planning law is on the matter. When I go to the county council, I am not reporting the farmer but rather finding out what the exact rule(s) are.

    The widening of this gap brings his entrance directly across from our house so now when heavy machinery accesses the field, they have to drive in to our entrance and on our property to turn in. This entrance is used a lot throughout the year and the road in front of our house is always left in a dangerous condition with excessive muck after. He never cleans this up after we ask him. This makes entering/exiting our entrance less safe.

    He could have widened his entrance on the other direction which would have been safer and less obstructive. I should clarify that the distance between the entrance to this field and ours was 10 metres... after the widening it is now approx 5 metres.

    That's amazing because the idea of widening a entrance is so you can drive in and out easier without having to swing completely to the other side of the road especially if road is narrow to facilitate machine length but in general all entrances on a country road are used for pulling in to let traffic pass each other on the road ....the muck problem follows all machines exiting all field entrances especially in wet conditions


  • #15
    maestroamado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    wrightguy wrote: »
    Wow, talk about jumping to conclusions. Who said anything about making an enemy of the farmer? I am just trying to find out information so when I do chat him about it I will know what the planning law is on the matter. When I go to the county council, I am not reporting the farmer but rather finding out what the exact rule(s) are.

    The widening of this gap brings his entrance directly across from our house so now when heavy machinery accesses the field, they have to drive in to our entrance and on our property to turn in. This entrance is used a lot throughout the year and the road in front of our house is always left in a dangerous condition with excessive muck after. He never cleans this up after we ask him. This makes entering/exiting our entrance less safe.

    He could have widened his entrance on the other direction which would have been safer and less obstructive. I should clarify that the distance between the entrance to this field and ours was 10 metres... after the widening it is now approx 5 metres.


    I thought farmers were legally bound to clean up roads after work was done, i thought that law was brought in about 10 years ago as i remember hearing about Gardai calling to a farmer but did not hear the outcome.


  • #16
    pale rider
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 283 ✭✭pale rider


    I would not bother to complain, if it develops into an issue for you then you can complain to the local authority planning enforcement section.

    This is part of living in a rural area, there's much worse gong on at the moment.


  • #17
    maestroamado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I expect the farmer changed his mind.
    The OP said muck being left on road after work, this is a more serious problem from road safety which everyone seems to be talking of these days...


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