PI claim with uncertain details - could a successful claim be possible?

TheBoyConor · 05-12-2019 4:35pm #1

Let say someone was in a restaurant for a meal and as they sat down they ended up bowled over right on on the flat of their arse because the chair they sat on was faulty and collapsed under them. At the time they would have got up dusted off and carried on with the meal, no big deal.
Staff wouldn't take hardly any notice, not apologising at all and just removed the broken chair. Probably didn't even report to management nor record the incident as having occurred.
The person now would not be even exactly sure what date the incident occurred, perhaps know it only to within a week of when it occurred.

The person would have never went to the doctor or physio at the time and 6 months on the person would still have mild back pain from it and are now going to go for medical review and subsequently may be looking to make a PI claim against the proprietors for having the gammy chair.

In a scenario like that, what would the chances be of a successful case? Or would it be thrown out as there was no solid evidence of anything and nothing was pursued sooner. Would a PI solicitor even take on a case if it had this many vagarities to it?

neamhsplach · 05-12-2019 11:29pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Let say someone was in a restaurant for a meal and as they sat down they ended up bowled over right on on the flat of their arse because the chair they sat on was faulty and collapsed under them. At the time they would have got up dusted off and carried on with the meal, no big deal.
Staff wouldn't take hardly any notice, not apologising at all and just removed the broken chair. Probably didn't even report to management nor record the incident as having occurred.
The person now would not be even exactly sure what date the incident occurred, perhaps know it only to within a week of when it occurred.

The person would have never went to the doctor or physio at the time and 6 months on the person would still have mild back pain from it and are now going to go for medical review and subsequently may be looking to make a PI claim against the proprietors for having the gammy chair.

In a scenario like that, what would the chances be of a successful case? Or would it be thrown out as there was no solid evidence of anything and nothing was pursued sooner. Would a PI solicitor even take on a case if it had this many vagarities to it?

No - and any solicitor who would take this case is acting in a reckless manner in increasing your hopes for a claim.

TheBoyConor · 06-12-2019 10:50am

Really?

Seth Brundle · 06-12-2019 10:54am

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Really?

How can compensation for a loss be calculated if there is nothing to suggest that you were at a loss?
You've no evidence of an injury arising from the incident apart from a memory of it!

votecounts · 06-12-2019 10:56am

People wonder why Insurance premiums are so high.

TheBoyConor · 06-12-2019 10:59am

Doctors receipt with receipts for prescription pain medication? Or physiotherapists report, would that not be enough substantiation?

Seth Brundle · 06-12-2019 11:00am

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Doctors report or physiotherapists report, would that not be enough substantiation?

Did you read the OP at all?

TheBoyConor · 06-12-2019 11:00am

But i mean like if they went to the doctor now and obtained those things?

Seth Brundle · 06-12-2019 11:09am

TheBoyConor wrote: »

But i mean like if they went to the doctor now and obtained those things?

That is evidence that you went to the doctor today!
If you had no need to see a medical expert six months ago then it will be deemed that there was no injury and whatever is wrong with you now cannot be attributed to the minor event six months ago.

randomrb · 06-12-2019 11:41am

Even if there is some injury it seems very minor, the fact that you cannot remember the date of the incident is a red flag but the main one as pointed out is the lack of a visit to the doctor.

I have seen PI cases which have been problematic because the individuals went to the doctor a few days after the incident not a few months.

You can't prove a link to the event and you can't prove injuries based on the incident, you have no case

TheBoyConor · 06-12-2019 11:59am

Shag it.

Might have been a grand pay day if only I'd taken more notice and went to the doctor that day or the day after.

Plumbthedepths · 06-12-2019 12:05pm

So you can't remember when it happened exactly and suffered no material loss and didn't seek medical attention after the event but are wondering about claiming?
I draw your attention to a case in yesterdays paper, a family of four attempted to sue a taxi driver for a minor collision. Judge found against the four they now have a bill each of 25k.

TheBoyConor · 06-12-2019 12:19pm

Well I did fall off the chair because it was faulty. I didn't get so much as an acknowledgment from the staff nor a sorry. One of them came over and took the remains of the chair away and glared at me as if to say how dare you break our chair.
Luckily I didn't have hot tea in my hand coming down from the counter or it would have ended up all over me as I fell backwards onto my back. I also am lucky that I didn't hit me head off the ground.
I think I should be entitled to something, even if I don't have a serious injury.

sydthebeat · 06-12-2019 12:22pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So you can't remember when it happened exactly and suffered no material loss and didn't seek medical attention after the event but are wondering about claiming?
I draw your attention to a case in yesterdays paper, a family of four attempted to sue a taxi driver for a minor collision. Judge found against the four they now have a bill each of 25k.

can i have a link to that please?

artanevilla · 06-12-2019 12:24pm

You want compensation because you might have had tea in your hand?

sydthebeat · 06-12-2019 12:26pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Well I did fall off the chair because it was faulty. I didn't get so much as an acknowledgment from the staff nor a sorry. One of them came over and took the remains of the chair away and glared at me as if to say how dare you break our chair.
Luckily I didn't have hot tea in my hand coming down from the counter or it would have ended up all over me as I fell backwards onto my back. I also am lucky that I didn't hit me head off the ground.
I think I should be entitled to something, even if I don't have a serious injury.

you should be entitled to nothing.

being "lucky" other things DIDNT happen is not an entitlement for compensation.

you didnt suffer injury at the time, you didnt seek medical attention at the time. There is no way any doctor can pin point "mild back pain" to a minor event which happened 6 months previous.
There is no way of attributing and supposed loss, of which its not clear there is any, to n event 6 months in the past.

Graham · 06-12-2019 12:27pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

can i have a link to that please?

I suspect this is it: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/taxi-passengers-face-25000-costs-as-accident-injury-claims-rejected-38748363.html

Plumbthedepths · 06-12-2019 12:27pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

can i have a link to that please?

https://m.herald.ie/news/courts/
Low impact taxi crash.

Trampas · 06-12-2019 12:29pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Well I did fall off the chair because it was faulty. I didn't get so much as an acknowledgment from the staff nor a sorry. One of them came over and took the remains of the chair away and glared at me as if to say how dare you break our chair.
Luckily I didn't have hot tea in my hand coming down from the counter or it would have ended up all over me as I fell backwards onto my back. I also am lucky that I didn't hit me head off the ground.
I think I should be entitled to something, even if I don't have a serious injury.

What do you think you’re entitled to?

NUTLEY BOY · 06-12-2019 12:31pm

A quick tour around the basic rules for bringing a successful action in negligence might help ;

1. Establish that the defendant owes the plaintiff a duty of care,
2. Establish that there has been a breach of that duty of care,
3. Establish that the plaintiff has suffered injury and losses,
4. Establish that the defendant's breach of duty is the cause of the injuries.
5. The plaintiff carries the burden of proof.
6. The required standard of proof is that of the balance of probabilities.

Balance of probabilities means that something is at least 51% more likely than not.

P.S. It was definitely a chair and not a swing ?

TheBoyConor · 06-12-2019 12:33pm

I don't know, but something.

They had dodgy furniture in there that could have seriouslly injured someone. I think there should be some kind of penalty against them for that.

I should have claimed at the time. I was too naive in not claiming. Most people would have landed a claim in that scenario. They would have been clearly negligent what with having faulty chairs that fell to pieces when someone sits on it.

It was the type of chair with a mouled plastic seat fixed onto chrome metal legs. I just the attachment failed and when I sat on it myself and the plastic part tumbled down onto the ground.

Seth Brundle · 06-12-2019 12:37pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I think I should be entitled to something, even if I don't have a serious injury.

You should be entitled to absolutely nothing and this sense of entitlement is incredibly frustrating for those who have to pay high insurance costs!
There was nothing wrong with you when it happened. You were absolutely fine.
Now, six months later, you feel you are owed something (to get your "grand pay day") because you think your back is sore?
Really?

Seth Brundle · 06-12-2019 12:39pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I don't know, but something.

They had dodgy furniture in there that could have seriouslly injured someone. I think there should be some kind of penalty against them for that.

I've no idea but maybe you were not using it correctly or are too heavy for it?

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I should have claimed at the time. I was too naive in not claiming. Most people would have landed a claim in that scenario. They would have been clearly negligent what with having faulty chairs that fell to pieces when someone sits on it.

The chair broke, so what?
You had no right to claim back then because there was nothing wrong with you. You weren't even feeling sore enough to pop into your GP.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

It was the type of chair with a mouled plastic seat fixed onto chrome metal legs. I just the attachment failed and when I sat on it myself and the plastic part tumbled down onto the ground.

and?

Did you check the chair before you sat down?
Did you not notice that it was wobbly or anything?

TheBoyConor · 06-12-2019 12:39pm

1. Establish that the defendant owes the plaintiff a duty of care,
Obviously they do have a DoC to their customers. It is a large restaurant chain.

2. Establish that there has been a breach of that duty of care,
Clearly there was as their chair fell to pieces under me. Was inadequately checked for damage or maintained.

3. Establish that the plaintiff has suffered injury and losses,
I did fall onto my back when the chair fell apart under me.

4. Establish that the defendant's breach of duty is the cause of the injuries.
I think it is reasonable to suggest that this incident could have resulted in back pain.

5. The plaintiff carries the burden of proof.
I can prove that the incident happend. perhaps it will be on CCTV.

6. The required standard of proof is that of the balance of probabilities.
An incident did occur. I fell on my back. My back is now sore. I would have thought that on balance, it is a scenario that would be more plausible than implausible.

I think that because they failed in their duty of care, I should be entitled to something. Perhaps even their insurers would offer to settle just to make it go away and not have to go the whole hog with court?

Seth Brundle · 06-12-2019 12:41pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

1. Establish that the defendant owes the plaintiff a duty of care,
Obviously they do have a DoC to their customers. It is a large restaurant chain.

2. Establish that there has been a breach of that duty of care,
Clearly there was as their chair fell to pieces under me. Was inadequately checked for damage or maintained.

3. Establish that the plaintiff has suffered injury and losses,
I did fall onto my back when the chair fell apart under me.

4. Establish that the defendant's breach of duty is the cause of the injuries.
I think it is reasonable to suggest that this incident could have resulted in back pain.

5. The plaintiff carries the burden of proof.
I can prove that the incident happend. perhaps it will be on CCTV.

6. The required standard of proof is that of the balance of probabilities.
An incident did occur. I fell on my back. My back is now sore. I would have thought that on balance, it is a scenario that would be more plausible than implausible.

I think that because they failed in their duty of care, I should be entitled to something. Perhaps even their insurers would offer to settle just to make it go away and not have to go the whole hog with court?

You're having a laugh now.
As if they will give you their CCTV so you can launch a piss-take legal action :rolleyes:

My last time saying this:
YOU.
ARE.
OWED.
OR.
ENTITLED.
TO.
NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trampas · 06-12-2019 12:41pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I don't know, but something.

They had dodgy furniture in there that could have seriouslly injured someone. I think there should be some kind of penalty against them for that.

I should have claimed at the time. I was too naive in not claiming. Most people would have landed a claim in that scenario. They would have been clearly negligent what with having faulty chairs that fell to pieces when someone sits on it.

It was the type of chair with a mouled plastic seat fixed onto chrome metal legs. I just the attachment failed and when I sat on it myself and the plastic part tumbled down onto the ground.

You’re entitled to whatever lost you had.

Plumbthedepths · 06-12-2019 12:43pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I don't know, but something.

They had dodgy furniture in there that could have seriouslly injured someone. I think there should be some kind of penalty against them for that.

I should have claimed at the time. I was too naive in not claiming. Most people would have landed a claim in that scenario. They would have been clearly negligent what with having faulty chairs that fell to pieces when someone sits on it.

It was the type of chair with a mouled plastic seat fixed onto chrome metal legs. I just the attachment failed and when I sat on it myself and the plastic part tumbled down onto the ground.

Sure look if you search you might find a solicitor that will take your case, you do of course have to go the PIAB route first. Doctor's report of circa 300 euro online registration with PIAB of 45 euro or by post 90 euro. Restaurant will probably through their insurer reject PIAB dealing with your claim. So it's a court date, based on what you said here most likely thrown out and a big bill potentially heading your way. Best thing to do move on and examine any chair you are intending to use before you sit. Think of it as a life lesson.

kippy · 06-12-2019 12:43pm

Can you prove that:
You were in the restaurant?

TheBoyConor · 06-12-2019 12:44pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I've no idea but maybe you were not using it correctly or are too heavy for it?

Ah here, I went in with friends for a cuppa tea and a burger. I can assure you I am of a healthy BMI and not at all overweight.

Did you check the chair before you sat down?
Did you not notice that it was wobbly or anything?

No. Why would I examine a chair before sitting on it? it is not unreasonable to expect a chair to not fall apart when sitting on it. Do you examine every chair you sit on for structural soundness?

Anyway, it is the responsibility of the restaurant to ensure that the facilities they provide are safe for their customers to use. It is part of their duty of care.

kippy · 06-12-2019 12:45pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Ah here, I went in with friends for a cuppa tea and a burger. I can assure you I am of a healthy BMI and not at all overweight.

No. Why would I examine a chair before sitting on it? it is not unreasonable to expect a chair to not fall apart when sitting on it. Do you examine every chair you sit on for structural soundness?

Anyway, it is the responsibility of the restaurant to ensure that the facilities they provide are safe for their customers to use. It is part of their duty of care.

Go to a solicitor.
Pointless discussing this here.

NUTLEY BOY · 06-12-2019 12:50pm

I suspect at this stage that any putative action would be likely doomed for want of relevant evidence.

The first thing that I would expect a solicitor taking instructions from you to do would do would be to have the chair inspected by an engineer.
That would determine if the chair was defective.

Simply asserting that the chair was axiomatically defective because it collapsed does not discharge the burden of proof.
Averring that an event is equally consistent with negligence does not meet the evidentiary burden.

There might be a res ipsa loquitor argument to me made in this respect but I think that it would be thin - you would not want to be relying on this as your best argument.

gmisk · 06-12-2019 12:53pm

Pop up Advert for this thread is for a personal injury solicitor....

There is clearly very little wrong with op if they haven't been in the 6th months since the "accident"

TheBoyConor · 06-12-2019 12:59pm

I did not break the chair. I had been in there many times before and since, and sat on similar chairs and they never fell apart under me.

This time, as soon as I put my ass on the chair, the top came free from the legs and slid backwards off the legs and I ended up flat on the floor.

Staff member came over and took the parts of the chair away, and didn't so much as ask me was I alright or offer to help me up.

To this day that table only has 2 plastic chairs whereas tables nearby have 3. There is clearly one chair still missing. They may have evidence of the accident having occured on their CCTV.

i konw the exact spot in the restaurant where it happened and i know it happened on one of three dates.
Could I ask a solicitor to ask the restaurant to view the CCTV on those dates?

kippy · 06-12-2019 1:12pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I did not break the chair. I had been in there many times before and since, and sat on similar chairs and they never fell apart under me.

This time, as soon as I put my ass on the chair, the top came free from the legs and slid backwards off the legs and I ended up flat on the floor.

Staff member came over and took the parts of the chair away, and didn't so much as ask me was I alright or offer to help me up.

To this day that table only has 2 plastic chairs whereas tables nearby have 3. There is clearly one chair still missing. They may have evidence of the accident having occured on their CCTV.

i konw the exact spot in the restaurant where it happened and i know it happened on one of three dates.
Could I ask a solicitor to ask the restaurant to view the CCTV on those dates?

There is zero chance CCTV records will exist of that.
Go talk to a solicitor.

randomrb · 06-12-2019 1:16pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

1. Establish that the defendant owes the plaintiff a duty of care,
Obviously they do have a DoC to their customers. It is a large restaurant chain.

2. Establish that there has been a breach of that duty of care,
Clearly there was as their chair fell to pieces under me. Was inadequately checked for damage or maintained. Or it may have been unforeseeable , in which case argument to be made no breach

3. Establish that the plaintiff has suffered injury and losses,
I did fall onto my back when the chair fell apart under me.currently the court only has your word on this and a doctors report from 6 months after the incident, I don't think any doctor would testify that tehy are sure that the injuries came out of that incident

4. Establish that the defendant's breach of duty is the cause of the injuries.
I think it is reasonable to suggest that this incident could have resulted in back pain.It could have caused it but that is not the standard the burden is on you to prove with evidence the link, which you can't

5. The plaintiff carries the burden of proof.
I can prove that the incident happend. perhaps it will be on CCTV.CCTV after 6 months? really? also you can't remember hwne this happened so no one else will remember

6. The required standard of proof is that of the balance of probabilities.
An incident did occur. I fell on my back. My back is now sore. I would have thought that on balance, it is a scenario that would be more plausible than implausible. you can't connect an event to an injury six months later that is implausible

I think that because they failed in their duty of care, I should be entitled to something. Perhaps even their insurers would offer to settle just to make it go away and not have to go the whole hog with court?good luck with that insurers are vicious if they think you have a weak claim

11

TheBoyConor · 06-12-2019 1:28pm

Mods, delete the thread please.

Silent Running · 06-12-2019 1:31pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Mods, delete the thread please.

Mods, don't. Let it stand as a reminder of why we have to pay sky high insurance premiums.

TheBoyConor · 06-12-2019 1:35pm

Delete it Mods, please. I'm done with it and all i've gotten is ridicule.

And I pay high insurance too you know.

randomrb · 06-12-2019 1:40pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Delete it Mods, please. I'm done with it and all i've gotten is ridicule.

And I pay high insurance too you know.

If you think this is bad imagine being in the witness box in front of the insurers barrister ....

kippy · 06-12-2019 1:41pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Delete it Mods, please. I'm done with it and all i've gotten is ridicule.

And I pay high insurance too you know.

You've gotten some good advise.
Not agreeing with the advice you've gotten doesn't make you ridiculed.

We all pay high insurance - can you claim off your own insurance?

marieholmfan · 06-12-2019 1:41pm

Very unkind responses to the OP who has been badly hurt by falling off a chair and just wants some compensation for pain and suffering.

SeeMoreBut · 06-12-2019 2:30pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Very unkind responses to the OP who has been badly hurt by falling off a chair and just wants some compensation for pain and suffering.

Which has not stated what compensation he wants.

sydthebeat · 06-12-2019 2:41pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Very unkind responses to the OP who has been badly hurt by falling off a chair and just wants some compensation for pain and suffering.

people suffer pain and suffering everyday....

is EVERYONE entitled to compensation?

Eggs For Dinner · 06-12-2019 3:24pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

And I pay high insurance too you know.

Can you not see the link between the type of action you are considering and the fact everyone is paying stupid levels of premium

Seth Brundle · 06-12-2019 3:30pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Very unkind responses to the OP who has been badly hurt by falling off a chair and just wants some compensation for pain and suffering.

Is that you, Maria Bailey?

endacl · 06-12-2019 3:38pm

I fell over once. Can I have some money please?

Beau Bennett · 06-12-2019 3:46pm

If I fell off my chair laughing after reading this, could I sue the OP? Fair play to the staff for keeping straight faces.

Eggs For Dinner · 06-12-2019 7:48pm

On a serious note, claims like this are received on a regular basis and it can cost serious money to defend by insurers, regardless of the outcome. It's not free money that they have to shell out to close a file with no payout. I'm not talking about fraud, just spurious claims

NUTLEY BOY · 09-12-2019 1:13pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Very unkind responses to the OP who has been badly hurt by falling off a chair and just wants some compensation for pain and suffering.

A respectful reminder - any action based on the tort of negligence is fault based. The practical and evidentiary difficulties have been pointed out.

gibgodsman · 09-12-2019 1:33pm

This Thread is everything that is wrong with Ireland. Fell off a chair 6 months ago, had no pain, 6 months later, oh my back hurts, might as well make a claim against that place I ate at once where I fell off a chair....

Ever think maybe something else is causing the back pain? Are you by any chance overweight? Maybe the main reason for the chair breaking?

marieholmfan · 09-12-2019 2:51pm

gibgodsman wrote: »

This Thread is everything that is wrong with Ireland. Fell off a chair 6 months ago, had no pain, 6 months later, oh my back hurts, might as well make a claim against that place I ate at once where I fell off a chair....

Ever think maybe something else is causing the back pain? Are you by any chance overweight? Maybe the main reason for the chair breaking?

Does the restaurant have a claim against the OP for reckless misuse of a chair?

PI claim with uncertain details - could a successful claim be possible?

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